Homeschooling...Yay or Nay?

[Deleted]

Looking a little closer into Santorum after Tuesday’s hat trick, I learned that his wife has/is homeschooling all of their seven children. This apparently stands him in good stead with the majority of the evangelical types.

Obviously, parents should have the option of home schooling their kids. Having said that, personally I think it is a mistake and a disservice to those kids more often than it is a benefit. Off the top, there are a number of arguments that I can think of, against it.

1. Lack of socialization. It could impede the development of the necessary social and inter-personal skills necessary to function and succeed in the broader society.

2. Not all parents are qualified, even remotely, to teach young children let alone older ones in all the subject areas they need to be proficient in.

3. No separation of home and work. This may seem trifle to some but the living room or kitchen or… should be just that, and not a makeshift classroom.

4. The matter of appropriate discipline: mom, and usually it is the mom, may end up being too strict or too lackadaisical and forgiving.

5. The few people that I know who were homeschooled as kids are all awkward geeks.

Any thoughts?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 9, 2012 11:04:53 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Looking a little closer into Santorum after Tuesday�s hat trick, I learned that his wife has/is homeschooling all of their seven children. This apparently stands him in good stead with the majority of the evangelical types.

Obviously, parents should have the option of home schooling their kids. Having said that, personally I think it is a mistake and a disservice to those kids more often than it is a benefit. Off the top, there are a number of arguments that I can think of, against it.

1. Lack of socialization. It could impede the development of the necessary social and inter-personal skills necessary to function and succeed in the broader society.

2. Not all parents are qualified, even remotely, to teach young children let alone older ones in all the subject areas they need to be proficient in.

3. No separation of home and work. This may seem trifle to some but the living room or kitchen or� should be just that, and not a makeshift classroom.

4. The matter of appropriate discipline: mom, and usually it is the mom, may end up being too strict or too lackadaisical and forgiving.

5. The few people that I know who were homeschooled as kids are all awkward geeks.

Any thoughts?

people should be able to raise their kids however they want. so long as it doesn't meet the standard of abuse, it is nobody's business but theirs.

[Tennesseer]

I see nothing wrong with it as long as they are well prepared for college (should they decide to attend).

I do have a bit of concern with socialization. Home schooled kids should be able to interact with students who attend private or public schools and participate in social, sport or educational events. Socialization is, IMHO, critical for personal development.

[mmhmm]

While I agree with your assessment, Robert, I also agree with dj. It's up to each family to decide how their child(ren) will be educated. If all turns out well, kudos for the decision. If all doesn't turn out well, the parents bear the responsibility, not the child. Some kids do very well in a home-school environment. Others don't. Kids are individuals, too.

Our daughter underwent a year of home-schooling while we were in Iran. While she did well with her studies, she missed the social aspects of going to school. For her, it wasn't a good situation, so we decided on boarding school for the following year. She loved it!

[reasonfreedom]

YaY for homeschooling. The pay that newer teachers get today would make me think as to how good of the education my child would get. My brother just quit being a teacher because he said that the public education system prohibits learning(he taught in Michigan and NC). If the parents are not qualified then maybe the idiots should self educate themselves. I think home would be better for your kids morals and ethics. I went to public schools and think they are a joke. Yeah there are some good teachers, but I had teachers drinking in class and screwing students. Let alone the peer pressure and bullying, yeah I saw all of that too. I ended up hanging around all social groups; jocks, punks, druggies, geeks, band members. Yeah they should have freedoms and fun, but they are still children and don't know the full consequences of the bad choices they make. Home schooling is far superior to public schooling. If not home then I would put them into a strict private school if I was worried about social issues, but with the internet now I don't think that home school social issue is a viable argument.

[billisonboard]

Feb 9, 2012 11:07:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

...
people should be able to raise their kids however they want. so long as it doesn't meet the standard of abuse, it is nobody's business but theirs.

My only concern is that "their kids" are my fellow citizens. For that reason, we have an interesting in making sure that some education does take place. Educational neglect is a form of abuse and I support our government looking at that issue and stepping in if necessary. I do think they should be slow to do so, granting individual parents a large degree of independence in this endeavor.

[zibazinski]

I'd do it at least through elementary school and possibly beyond. You can also send your child to school just for certain subjects. DD had a girl come in for chemistry and trig when she was in high school. I wish I had online schooled her almost totally. It depends on the child and the school. What does your child learn from socialization? Depends on the school and the students. Some of the things you'd rather your child not be exposed to.

[zibazinski]

Like not being able to use the rest room in middle school.

[Deleted]

My concern is more the people who use the homeschooling umbrella in order to conceal abused children or those who do not educate at all - I remember a couple of cases where they found illiterate pre-teens who had been "homeschooled."

[formerroomate99]

1. Lack of socialization. It could impede the development of the necessary social and inter-personal skills necessary to function and succeed in the broader society.

People who care enough about their kid's education generally go out of their way to make sure their kids socialize with other kids. And since homeschooling has taken off in recent years, there are more opportunities for homeschooled kids to socialize, including sports leagues, community theater, etc.

You also need to remember that school is a very artificial environment. What job have you had where everyone is exactly the same age as you? And many of the behaviors that make one successful in school are exactly the opposite of what you need to do to be successful in the real world. I sure as heck woudln't have the career I have if I had gone along with the popular kids.

2. Not all parents are qualified, even remotely, to teach young children let alone older ones in all the subject areas they need to be proficient in.

Most homeschoolers quit at 8th grade and send the kids to regular high school. And even among the ones who don't, homeschoolers usually get together, so the engineer will teach the kids math and science while the writer will teach English. There are also a lot of resources online these days.

3. No separation of home and work. This may seem trifle to some but the living room or kitchen or… should be just that, and not a makeshift classroom.

Many homeschoolers do have a room set aside as the schoolroom. And since many college kids do the lion's share of their studing in their dorm rooms and go on to be successful, I find it hard to believe that kids doing schoolwork in the dining room is harmful.

4. The matter of appropriate discipline: mom, and usually it is the mom, may end up being too strict or too lackadaisical and forgiving.

This is one area where you and I agree. Homeschooling is generally an unmitigated disaster if the one doing it isn't a strict disciplinarian. A laid back mom should not homeschool, period.

5. The few people that I know who were homeschooled as kids are all awkward geeks.

I went to college with a lot of homeschoolers. Although they were more likely to talk about Tolkein rather than Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles, and none were card carrying members of the Fashon Ghestapo, their social skills were just fine by the time they were in college. Part of it may be because they tended to come from very large families, and therefore had to learn early how to deal with different personalities. Part of it may also be because they were in the adult world.

I would think a homeschooled only child, or homeschooled kids who weren't given opportunities to socialize would be more likely to have problems.

[formerroomate99]

Feb 9, 2012 11:22:44 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

My concern is more the people who use the homeschooling umbrella in order to conceal abused children or those who do not educate at all - I remember a couple of cases where they found illiterate pre-teens who had been "homeschooled."

Oh yeah, like every single kid who goes to public school comes out literate. Really?

[Deleted]

I think educating a child is a really hard thing to do, and parents should think long and hard about whether or not they can do a better job of it than their local school system. I suspect the quality of education for home schooled kids varies about as much as the quality of education provided for public school kids.

I agree that parents have the right to educate their kid anyway they see fit. (Although, I maintain my right to make fun of your kid if you teach them that dinosaurs wore saddles)

[rockon]

We chose to home school through 4th grade. My DW thoroughly enjoyed the experience, the kids thrived on it. The ones that have graduated so far have been in the top of their class and enjoyed a great social life besides. I have however witnessed what I will call "lazy" parents who it appeared home schooled for the wrong reasons like not having to get the kids up and moving in the morning. Certainly not the federal governments duty or right to control this but I personally don't think it is out of question for a state to require some testing to insure that at least some basic or minimum level of education is being achieved.

[Deleted]

Oh yeah, like every single kid who goes to public school comes out literate. Really?

I worry about illiteracy in public schools too.

[billisonboard]

Feb 9, 2012 11:27:44 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

...
And the drop out rate is worse now than ever before.
...

No it isn't:

The share of the population with a secondary education increased threefold from 1920 to 1940, when, for the first time, a slim majority of American youths graduated from high school. Finishing high school became more firmly established as a social and educational norm in postwar America, as the graduation rate rose steadily through the 1950s and 1960s. Completion rates peaked in 1969, with 77 percent of that high school class earning diplomas.
The next three decades were marked by a retreat from those historical highs; the graduation rate eroded incrementally at certain times and fell significantly at others, including a sharp drop during the first half of the 1990s. Although the nation regained some ground between the late 1990s and 2005, the graduation rate now stands at about the same level as it did in the early 1960s. www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2010/06/10/34swanson.h29.html

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 9, 2012 11:22:44 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

My concern is more the people who use the homeschooling umbrella in order to conceal abused children or those who do not educate at all - I remember a couple of cases where they found illiterate pre-teens who had been "homeschooled."

Well they weren't really home schooled then were they Yeah I agree those umbrella creeps need to fall out of the gene pool

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 9, 2012 11:30:45 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

I think educating a child is a really hard thing to do, and parents should think long and hard about whether or not they can do a better job of it than their local school system. I suspect the quality of education for home schooled kids varies about as much as the quality of education provided for public school kids.

I agree that parents have the right to educate their kid anyway they see fit. (Although, I maintain my right to make fun of your kid if you teach them that dinosaurs wore saddles)

OMG!!!!!!!! Dinosaurs didn't wear saddles? I am going to hunt down my 3rd grade teacher.......

[Deleted]

All good posts.

And I agree that parents should be able to raise their children as they see fit, short of neglect and abuse.

Clearly, some parents will be better equipped than others to home school their kids, and while some children will take to it and thrive others may be frustrated and stagnate.

I remain ambivalent on the matter.

[Sam_2.0]

Looks like my DH and I are "awkward geeks" - LOL.

DH was home schooled all the way through K-12. But he was hardly lacking in social skills. By Jr high, my ILs had enrolled their kids (6) in classes (foreign languages, science, music) with other "home schooled" kids - basically the parents paid for private tutors for certain subjects. The kids were also all heavily involved in sports (city leagues and home school leagues).

I got to experience public school (K-2), home school (3-4), private school (5-10), and public school again (11 - graduated that year). All have good & bad aspects. There were four kids in my family and we all excelled in different environments.

As for our kids, we are leaving the subject open for discussion. While we will most likely home school for elementary grades, we are not opposed to private school in the later grades, and maybe earlier if that's what is best for a certain child's learning style.

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 9, 2012 11:23:24 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Also, many parents don't want their children learning about life while on an unsupervised playground.
Good home schooled groups are well supervised and little Sara isn't learning how to get pregnant while she smokes under the bleachers.

lol, i would be worried about that too. If I had a daughter I would probably be in jail before she finished her senior year(that is if I let her go to public schools). I know what I was doing at 13-14 years old, now they are doing it in fifth grade(32 years old and yes they were having sex at age 14 when I was in middle school).

[formerroomate99]

Kids get verbally, physically, and sexually abused every day in school. A kid who is getting beaten up by 5-6 kids while the teacher stands by doesn't have any better of a chance to defend himself than a kid who is getting beaten up by a parent. It seems strange to me how many people honestly think that getting beaten up by a parent is considered abuse, while getting beaten up by a group of kids is considered an essential part of a child's development.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 9, 2012 11:30:01 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Feb 9, 2012 11:22:44 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

My concern is more the people who use the homeschooling umbrella in order to conceal abused children or those who do not educate at all - I remember a couple of cases where they found illiterate pre-teens who had been "homeschooled."

Oh yeah, like every single kid who goes to public school comes out literate. Really?

literate and UNABUSED.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 9, 2012 11:36:52 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What we find interesting was that in one or two hours a day of studying, more is being accomplished than was in a whole day at school.

that really depends on the school. there is no way we could accomplish in 2 hours what happens in a day at my son's school. no....way.

[formerroomate99]

Feb 9, 2012 11:36:52 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What we find interesting was that in one or two hours a day of studying, more is being accomplished than was in a whole day at school.

Considering the fact that a typical school teacher spends 80% of her time on discipline and her attention is divided between 20-30 kids who are all at different levels, I'm not suprised at all.

The homeschoolers I knew in college were much better prepared than their public school counterparts, due in large part to the fact that they were used to learning independently, and had superior study skills as a result. And pretty much all of them reported that they didn't spend more than 3 hours a day on schoolwork.

[formerroomate99]

Feb 9, 2012 11:51:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 9, 2012 11:36:52 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What we find interesting was that in one or two hours a day of studying, more is being accomplished than was in a whole day at school.

that really depends on the school. there is no way we could accomplish in 2 hours what happens in a day at my son's school. no....way.

I wouldn't be so sure DJ. The homeschoolers I knew in college were very well prepared and had incredible study skills. None of them reported spending more than 3 hours a day on their schoolwork. And you're not exactly a dummy youself.

[Deleted]

Feb 9, 2012 11:04:53 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Looking a little closer into Santorum after Tuesday’s hat trick, I learned that his wife has/is homeschooling all of their seven children. This apparently stands him in good stead with the majority of the evangelical types.

Obviously, parents should have the option of home schooling their kids. Having said that, personally I think it is a mistake and a disservice to those kids more often than it is a benefit. Off the top, there are a number of arguments that I can think of, against it.

1. Lack of socialization. It could impede the development of the necessary social and inter-personal skills necessary to function and succeed in the broader society.

2. Not all parents are qualified, even remotely, to teach young children let alone older ones in all the subject areas they need to be proficient in.

3. No separation of home and work. This may seem trifle to some but the living room or kitchen or… should be just that, and not a makeshift classroom.

4. The matter of appropriate discipline: mom, and usually it is the mom, may end up being too strict or too lackadaisical and forgiving.

5. The few people that I know who were homeschooled as kids are all awkward geeks.

Any thoughts?

I have thoughts.
1.Usually parents who home school go out of their way to have the children join sports or other community events including church socializing of children of the same age.

2.Where I live, parents have to follow the same curriculum and are checked on by testing the children in annual gov't exams. As a side note the teaching itself tends to take MUCH less time allowing the children more free time for sports, music and other activities.

3.The parents that I know who have home schooled tend to set very strict times and places for when "school is on" and when its not. Otherwise it would be mayhem.

4. A parent that takes on home schooling is more likely to understand the methods of discipline (if necessary) that work for each child.

5. Lets face it, the education system isn't quite what it was when we were kids, things have changed as people are much more transient. This whole geek thing is a non issue. Sports teams etc are made up of children from many different areas and the school or homeschool issue is moot.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 9, 2012 11:19:06 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 9, 2012 11:07:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

...
people should be able to raise their kids however they want. so long as it doesn't meet the standard of abuse, it is nobody's business but theirs.

My only concern is that "their kids" are my fellow citizens. For that reason, we have an interesting in making sure that some education does take place. Educational neglect is a form of abuse and I support our government looking at that issue and stepping in if necessary. I do think they should be slow to do so, granting individual parents a large degree of independence in this endeavor.

since there is no guarantee that government intervention would stop any of that, i would prefer to side with liberty on this one.

[swamp]

I have seen the best of homeschooling: intelligent, caring, creating, learned parents doing the best they can for their kids. They take the time to plan lessons integrated in field trips, socialize the kids, expose them to different ideas, teach the kids to think critically, and know their limitations and know when to call in for help teaching a subject.

I've also seen the worst: Illiterate, lazy asswipes who don't think math is a necessary skill. I've also seen religious zealots who want to shield their children from horrible concepts like evolution and the equality of the sexes.

Completely depends on the parents...................

[Deleted]

Feb 9, 2012 12:06:08 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Feb 9, 2012 11:51:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

that really depends on the school. there is no way we could accomplish in 2 hours what happens in a day at my son's school. no....way.

Seriously. It's being done. The kids sit down, open their computers work for an hour, take a couple of hours to play and then back to the computers for another hour. Of course this isn't their only means of learning. There are many fun hands on projects and field trips.

I agree, its what I've been told by a mom who homeschools 4 children.

[Phoenix84]

I think parents should certainly have the right if they choose to do so, but my conerns about homeschooling are the same as the OP's. I think some parents can overcome them, like seeking tutors or groups in subject areas they are weak, and seeking social activities outside the home to improve socialization. But the reality is not every homeschooling parent will be good at it, and it does a disservice to the kid.

Just in my experience, home schooled kids grew up to be good at studying independently, but had substandard knowledge in certain fields, like math and science.