moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Feb 5, 2012 18:51:13 GMT -5
mkitty, I'm not going to remove your post at this time because I'd like you to read it again to identify the problem areas. It may be removed later, however. What I am going to do is tell you clearly, it's time to stop with the snark. You can make your points without putting others down, making fun of others, or making smart remarks. Present ideas, not snark. Enough. mmhmm, P&M Moderator I will add that if you are unable (or unwilling) to post without the constant put downs, you will no longer post. It's absolutely unnecessary, and brings nothing of value to the discussion. ~moon mod.
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on Feb 5, 2012 19:02:54 GMT -5
Actually, leeching is making a comeback. Not for bloodletting, it's not. Leeches are used to increase arterial circulation. Maggots are also used for removing dead tissues in wounds
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Feb 5, 2012 19:06:39 GMT -5
It doesn't make sense. People who admit to existing "in the Twilight Zone" are able to make all kinds of asinine comments... but woe unto them that that classifies such comments accurately. Incidentally, a moderator or administrator placed a derogatory/snarky comment about "André Cold Duck" next to my name (ostensibly to humiliate me) and it was allowed... why?
Hypocrisy is a Virtue... to Hypocrites.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 5, 2012 19:12:07 GMT -5
Minorities ARE conservative- especially Mexicans- IF we are talking about how they live their lives. They're here for a better life.
The only people "the language of the ghetto" really bothers are elitists who want to keep as many people in this country ignorant and dependent as possible in order to preserve a voting block.
I think conservatives are going to have to stop silencing themselves on these kinds of issues, because silence out of fear of the standard left-wing freak-out concedes the false premise promoted by the left that conservatives either do not care about, or outright hate minorities.
The great thing about conservatism is that we don't have a speech and a program tailored just for your special minority group. Conservatism works for everyone, equally, all at the same time.
Because conservatism doesn't begin by insulting people. Sure the truth hurts-- English is the language of getting a legitimate education, it's the language of getting job, it's the language of business, and it's the language of the law and of government. So, yeah- it might hurt to say that your native tongue is the language of the ghetto-- whatever it might be-- but it's the truth. If you don't learn English, you won't get far in America. Period. The INSULT is lying to people and letting them believe that anything else is true. It's an insult to keep people ignorant and dependent and offering them, as a consolation prize- a government welfare program.
I believe conservatives need to speak boldly to the liberal destruction of minorities in America- we're going to have to cross the Rubicon on this issue and not look back.
We win- everyone wins. But if we lose, everyone loses.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Feb 5, 2012 19:15:23 GMT -5
Incidentally, a moderator or administrator placed a derogatory/snarky comment about "André Cold Duck" next to my name (ostensibly to humiliate me) and it was allowed... why? Hypocrisy is a Virtue... to Hypocrites. was meant as a joke, Antibabble.. a little poke at your name change to Don (rather than DOM) Perignon... was waiting to see if and when you would notice or comment.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 5, 2012 19:31:42 GMT -5
Would it be okay if I started a thread so that we could isolate the posts that have brought value to or have been constructive to the conversation?
I don't expect it to be a long thread.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 5, 2012 19:50:43 GMT -5
Don't let them get to you lonewolf. They don't understand that there are people who abuse the system, horse.....fucking.....shit. and i disagree with the rest of your post. the system is not "set up" to create welfare mamas. it is set up to help people. the fact that people abuse it is sad, but it doesn't mean that it is intrinsically bad to try to help folks. Dj, I'm with you on this one. As usual, the attitude of "somebody is getting over" is pervasive as ever. Despite the high numbers of those truly in need who benefit from these programs, there will always be those with bullshit anecdotal "evidence" that everyone is gaming the system. I'm sorry, but I am in and out of hospitals on a regular basis for my job, and have been for years. I'm sure mmhmm can attest to this as well, volunteers are NOT privy to information about who pays their bills and who does not, who can afford to pay their way and who cannot I'm callin' bullshit on that one. I don't understand that attitude at all. I never will.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Feb 5, 2012 20:07:16 GMT -5
Would it be okay if I started a thread so that we could isolate the posts that have brought value to or have been constructive to the conversation? I don't expect it to be a long thread. The foundation of the thread seems to be a facetious rhetorical question, rather than a legitimate inquiry.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Feb 5, 2012 20:18:35 GMT -5
If they're here for a better life, they're liberals. If they're here for the SAME life, they're conservatives. Maybe you'd have less difficulties if you learned what the fundamental definition of conservatives/liberals were, not the Faux News "Conservative good! Liberals bad!" partisian viewpoint.
Since yours consists of the upper 1% and their sycophants, there's lots of room to move up and still be part of the voting block. Just fighting strawman fire with strawman fire.
Somehow the 1% disproportionally benefits from it. Talking in platitudes proves absolutely nothing.
With statements like that, it doesn't even begin to make sense. Neither "begin by" anything.
Thank you, Professor Obvious. BTW, there are none of those uber-left wing people here for you to argue against. Strawmanish is language of Conservatives in the intellectual ghetto.
First they're going to have to get past their empty rhetorical fappitude. Seriously, that post and a dollar will get you three quarters, with the fourth kept as an "annoyance fee."
That statement loses, so do we all lose? No just the one who made the comment.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 5, 2012 20:20:17 GMT -5
"A doomed society will attempt to care for those unwilling to care for themselves"
I'm absolutely speechless.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:23:33 GMT -5
they managed to survived to age 35....... Back then, my family took care of the sick and elderly. it wasn't a 40 year slog like it is now, and generationally, it worked out well for the kids to do it. grandkids are less well equipped. moreover, i have watched two grandparents cost the family almost $1M so far between them. in the old days, they would have died several years earlier and not had to suffer the dementia and everything that attended it. we need death panels. desperately.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:24:18 GMT -5
My thought is: why not do both? Because we can't afford both. It's a survival thing. who is we? i can absolutely afford both.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:25:09 GMT -5
The govt decided it wanted to be the father to babies whose mothers decided to have them without getting married or educated to support them. Then the govt decided to get involved in health care. Then education and policing the world. Anything the govt touches, it destroys. only when it comes to foreign policy since WW2.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:28:20 GMT -5
Minorities ARE conservative religiously? yes. every other way? no. that is why they vote Democrat.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:31:42 GMT -5
horse.....fucking.....shit. and i disagree with the rest of your post. the system is not "set up" to create welfare mamas. it is set up to help people. the fact that people abuse it is sad, but it doesn't mean that it is intrinsically bad to try to help folks. Dj, I'm with you on this one. As usual, the attitude of "somebody is getting over" is pervasive as ever. Despite the high numbers of those truly in need who benefit from these programs, there will always be those with bullshit anecdotal "evidence" that everyone is gaming the system. I'm sorry, but I am in and out of hospitals on a regular basis for my job, and have been for years. I'm sure mmhmm can attest to this as well, volunteers are NOT privy to information about who pays their bills and who does not, who can afford to pay their way and who cannot I'm callin' bullshit on that one. I don't understand that attitude at all. I never will. it stems from a cynical view of human nature. not everybody expects the best of people. but i do.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:33:51 GMT -5
Message deleted by djlungrot.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 5, 2012 21:48:21 GMT -5
There is a large not for profit corp in this area who runs group homes and other services for the developmentally disabled. When one of the residents die, the obituary often reads "joe was born in (some city hours away) and is survived by his family at (not for profit corp). This corp could not survive without Medicaid, but I'm okmwith it. They provide good care to these people. They also have a development office and do raise money, but not nearly enough to cover the cost of the care. A hallmark of a civilized society is one that will care for those who can't care for themselves A doomed society will attempt to care for those unwilling to care for themselves. This shocks people, but I know how to read. Your wording was deliberate and precise- betcha you freak a lot of people out who don't read what you wrote.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 5, 2012 21:48:37 GMT -5
Oh, too late.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:50:00 GMT -5
i am not freaking out, bro. i was just wondering who wrote it. no need to trouble cereb now that i know.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 5, 2012 21:51:37 GMT -5
"who's quote is that cereb? "
It was lonewolf.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 5, 2012 21:53:48 GMT -5
"Oh, too late. "
We can read just fine as well Paul.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 21:56:50 GMT -5
"A doomed society will attempt to care for those unwilling to care for themselves" I'm absolutely speechless. I said "unwilling" NOT unable. Why so speechless? lone- where exactly is YEE HAW?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 5, 2012 22:01:00 GMT -5
"A doomed society will attempt to care for those unwilling to care for themselves" I'm absolutely speechless. I said "unwilling" NOT unable. Why so speechless? In the context of the conversation, most folks were talking about the unable, not the unwilling. Your only acknowledgement that the unable even exist is to state that they should rely on charity and family. you may have just as well said both.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 5, 2012 22:15:15 GMT -5
You say that now, lonewolf, but your original contention was that nobody who didn't contribute deserved anything. You've got to own that one.
I've also asked you more than once what you'd like to do to see that those who are milking the system are removed from the system. How would you go about doing that? You've got to find them, ensure they're able to work and can do something productive (or train them to do something productive), and get them jobs. That takes boots on the streets, suits in the offices, and educators in the field. Then, there must be jobs for them to do, and they must be paid so they can "contribute". I'm still waiting for you to tell us how you propose to get that done.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Feb 5, 2012 22:17:55 GMT -5
And how much a year is it costing us to support all the "unwilling" people who are not working?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 22:18:13 GMT -5
You say that now, lonewolf, but your original contention was that nobody who didn't contribute deserved anything. You've got to own that one. I've also asked you more than once what you'd like to do to see that those who are milking the system are removed from the system. How would you go about doing that? You've got to find them, ensure they're able to work and can do something productive (or train them to do something productive), and get them jobs. That takes boots on the streets, suits in the offices, and educators in the field. Then, there must be jobs for them to do, and they must be paid so they can "contribute". I'm still waiting for you to tell us how you propose to get that done. and, for the record, i would call that a very noble cause. making the poor "fishermen" in the biblical tradition is not only within the range for a nation of our astounding wealth, but very much in keeping with the Christian values many of us hold true.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 22:18:53 GMT -5
And how much a year is it costing us to support all the "unwilling" people bwho are not working? people like Romney? people like Palin? ;D
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 5, 2012 22:24:33 GMT -5
"making the poor "fishermen" in the biblical tradition is not only within the range for a nation of our astounding wealth, but very much in keeping with the Christian values many of us hold true."
And I might add that this has been the revolution which has occurred in the last 5 years. Changes within the Mental Health systems and the systems that care for the developmentally disabled have made significant changes to this effect.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 5, 2012 22:31:38 GMT -5
I'm affording both quite nicely, thanks; however, your last sentence raises a question, lonewolf. Whose survival? What makes your survival more important than someone else's survival. I do believe we may have arrived back to that insult again. You remember the one, don't you? The one about Democrats (liberals) being self-serving?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 5, 2012 22:36:01 GMT -5
I agree, cereb. There have been major changes, and there will be more as our technology increases, and we find new and better ways to help these folks reach their full potential. We're learning all the time, and it is getting better!
I also agree that no volunteer is going to know whether someone pays their bills, or how someone pays their bills. HIPAA prevents that. Even our nurses in the acute care setting don't know anything about a patient's billing status. I can get the information if I need to, but it takes a special password and any access will be recorded with time, date, and the name of the person who accessed.
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