swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 5, 2012 12:12:05 GMT -5
There is a large not for profit corp in this area who runs group homes and other services for the developmentally disabled. When one of the residents die, the obituary often reads "joe was born in (some city hours away) and is survived by his family at (not for profit corp). This corp could not survive without Medicaid, but I'm okmwith it. They provide good care to these people. They also have a development office and do raise money, but not nearly enough to cover the cost of the care.
A hallmark of a civilized society is one that will care for those who can't care for themselves
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 5, 2012 12:12:08 GMT -5
That reminds me of the debate recently when Ron Paul said when he practiced in the 60's there were no federal healthcare programs to help seniors and everything was fine, insinuating doctors picked up the tab for those that couldn't afford it. That is not true at all. There were federal programs to help seniors with their healthcare bills.And they were overwhelemed as the numbers grew.That is how medicare was started. ...But to be fair to Paul, he probably did not have a lot of senior patients....:}
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 5, 2012 12:13:36 GMT -5
Perhaps we should round up and shoot all those with disabling diseases, as well. Then, all these mooching folks won't have their hands in OUR pockets, the ungrateful whelps! I'm not talking about those with disabling diseases and you all know it! Yes, the subject fires me up. We just had an employee tell the manager that if her hours weren't cut from 35 hours a week to 25 hours that she would quit and go apply for welfare. This is the crap that has me fired up. The manager said, "go ahead and I'll be standing right behind you in that welfare line, ready to tell them why you quit." The employee said, "Go ahead. They don't care." Employee is right! They don't care and we, the taxpayers, are paying for it! How can you really justify this being right? Then say it. You said NOBODY should benefit from programs they don't pay into.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 12:15:38 GMT -5
Frankly, lonewolf, I don't care what you pay for. I do use my money, and my time, to provide services I feel are needed. I don't whine about it, either. I also don't call others self-serving because they don't want to pay for such services. That's a two-sided mirror you're holding. I've donated many hours and given much to charities. This was my choice. It was not forced upon me as is now being done. that IS your choice. and i choose to pay my taxes so that everyone that is not taken care of by charities is taken care of. is there a problem with that?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 5, 2012 12:16:18 GMT -5
You could use the logic I paid taxes, so therefore I am entitled to it for just about anything,imo.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 12:16:49 GMT -5
And profoundly mentally retarded? and widowers who have suddenly discovered that their husbands have spent every last dime of their retirement on gambling?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 5, 2012 12:17:30 GMT -5
Perhaps we should round up and shoot all those with disabling diseases, as well. Then, all these mooching folks won't have their hands in OUR pockets, the ungrateful whelps! I'm not talking about those with disabling diseases and you all know it! Yes, the subject fires me up. We just had an employee tell the manager that if her hours weren't cut from 35 hours a week to 25 hours that she would quit and go apply for welfare. This is the crap that has me fired up. The manager said, "go ahead and I'll be standing right behind you in that welfare line, ready to tell them why you quit." The employee said, "Go ahead. They don't care." Employee is right! They don't care and we, the taxpayers, are paying for it! How can you really justify this being right? Pardon me, lonewolf, but your own words made it clear you didn't like being "forced" to support those who don't contribute. You said that. We did not. There are a lot of reasons why people don't contribute. Some of them are unavoidable. I think most of us agree welfare needs reform. However, that's going to cost money up-front. How in the heck do you expect to find all those who could contribute but choose not to do so? The staff doing the job now is overworked and underpaid (for the level of education needed). Finding those who are milking the system and dealing with them is going to take time, and it's going to take money.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 12:18:04 GMT -5
Severely developmentally disabled people are often are supported wholly by the government be cause nodoby else can or will. Should we kill them? No! This is what charities and families are for. what if there are no charities or families available?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 5, 2012 12:18:30 GMT -5
Yet, 12 hours later and the comment is still there. 10 minutes for me, more than 12 hours and another persons comment, which had absolutely no value is still standing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 12:21:18 GMT -5
I've generally voted democrat because the national republican candidates seem way too interested in what's happening in my bedroom and uterus and neglecting what's happening to my wallet. I do not vote party line, though.
Swamp I totally agree with you!! The republican party needs to address political aims rather than religious aims.
Mexicans don't vote in American elections. Americans vote in American elections.
Billsonboard next your going to claim that dead people don't vote. ;D
As for why minorities don't vote republican as a general rule it's pretty simple. The republicans haven't tried to get in touch with them. They don't explain republican views for example nor show where they are compatible. Certainly the effect of democrat goals on black family units has been obvious for many years yet the republicans haven't pointed that out. In other word in that area republicans are terrible at getting their message out. It's like a salesman that refuses to sell his products to anyone whose name starts with a letter coming after "N" in the alphabet. It drastically cuts down his sales. Just dumb.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 12:21:25 GMT -5
Perhaps we should round up and shoot all those with disabling diseases, as well. Then, all these mooching folks won't have their hands in OUR pockets, the ungrateful whelps! I'm not talking about those with disabling diseases and you all know it! Yes, the subject fires me up. We just had an employee tell the manager that if her hours weren't cut from 35 hours a week to 25 hours that she would quit and go apply for welfare. This is the crap that has me fired up. did you bother to point out to her that welfare is only good for a couple of years, takes weeks or months to be approved, and is a degrading and humiliating experience? but moreover, what kind of person demands the sort of work schedule that deprives him or her of benefits?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2012 12:23:43 GMT -5
The manager said, "go ahead and I'll be standing right behind you in that welfare line, ready to tell them why you quit." The employee said, "Go ahead. They don't care." if it is unemployment, they absolutely DO care. you are ineligible if you quit. the employee is absolutely, unequivocally wrong.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 5, 2012 12:29:27 GMT -5
Build a system, someone will abuse it.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 5, 2012 12:29:36 GMT -5
I've already explained it's not quite that easy, at this point, lonewolf. How would you propose to get this done?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 12:38:00 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet our local hospital did not treat more than 10 illegal aliens last year out of 20k ER visits But in places like Los Angeles county they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on healthcare for illegal aliens and ER's are shutting down. Like mmhmm said the costs of illegal immigration are pretty unevenly distributed.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 5, 2012 12:39:33 GMT -5
Twisting his use of the word ghetto...not shocking. Maybe you should look into the history behind the term and the number of ethnic ghetto's we've had in this country as the various members of the world brought the newest influx of immigrants to the country [Irish, Italian, German, Chinese...]. Maybe some people just have principles that they stand by rather than wanting to create a tax code that pits various segments of the population against each other. Sure...
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 5, 2012 12:45:46 GMT -5
oh oh... <<<"As Hispanics Turn Away from Obama, an Opportunity for the GOP Arises His his indispensable column The Fix today, Chris Cillizza analyzed President Obama’s declining support among Hispanics: In recent Gallup polling, his approval rating among Latinos dipped to 48 percent — the lowest mark of his presidency and a significant drop-off from the 60 percent approval among the group he carried as recently as January. Obama’s approval rating among Hispanics is now just seven points higher than it is among the general public in Gallup data, a major decline from earlier in his term. And polling conducted by Resurgent Republic, a conservative-aligned group, shows Obama under-performing his 2008 totals in key swing states with large Hispanic populations. In Florida, where Obama won 57 percent of the Latino vote in 2008, 48 percent of Hispanics say he deserves a second term. Ditto in New Mexico, where Obama carried Latinos with 69 percent but now sees just 58 percent of that voting bloc willing to say he should be reelected. (Worth noting: In Colorado, Obama’s numbers have held steady among Hispanics.) race42012.com/2011/09/20/hispanics-turning-away-from-obama/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 12:47:14 GMT -5
Colorado is probably less affected by the massive increase in deportations under the Obama administration.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 5, 2012 12:47:31 GMT -5
oops
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 12:52:02 GMT -5
I was in San Jose when they had the massive pro-immigration rallies. Non-marchers were really offended to see them carrying Mexican flags in support of immigration to the . . . U.S. USA Today had an article at the time about how rhetoric from pro immigration groups was harming the movement. "We didn't cross the border. The border crossed us."
The group's constitution requires that its chapters read "El Plan de Aztlan." A line in its introduction translates into "for the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing." The Mexican American Political Association, which mapped out its demands in a flier for Monday's boycott: "Immediate legalization without conditions, no border walls, no criminalization." MAPA President Nativo Lopez has stated his desire for Spanish to be California's primary language. www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-05-02-immigration-rhetoric_x.htm
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 5, 2012 13:05:57 GMT -5
Build a system, someone will abuse it. And that makes it okay? My thought is don't build a system that can be abused. I didn't say it was OK, but you can't make a system that is impermeable to abuse.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 13:10:08 GMT -5
"Twisting his use of the word ghetto...not shocking. Maybe you should look into the history behind the term and the number of ethnic ghetto's we've had in this country as the various members of the world brought the newest influx of immigrants to the country [Irish, Italian, German, Chinese...]."
expat, how was this a twist on the meaning? Every ethnic group that has had the dubious distinction of being newest/most unwanted to this country has lived in ghettos. Living together helped new immigrants share resources, connect with the old country, and insulate themselves from discrimination. That's doesn't mean that ghetto has ever been a positive term. Ghettos aren't places you want to live, they are places you live because you have to.
The language of the ghetto hasn't been Chinese in three generations. What part of his meaning wasn't clear?
You also need to try a little harder than a map of Mexico to suggest that illegal immigrants are voting in U.S. elections. Citizens of Hispanic heritage may be motivated by the reminder than U.S. elections impact border politics, immigration policies and paths to citizenship - not because they aren't citizens but because they may have friends or family in Mexico. I know a lot of folks who fly an Irish flag on St. Patrick's Day - doesn't make them anything other than U.S. citizens of Irish descent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 13:12:20 GMT -5
There is a large not for profit corp in this area who runs group homes and other services for the developmentally disabled. When one of the residents die, the obituary often reads "joe was born in (some city hours away) and is survived by his family at (not for profit corp). This corp could not survive without Medicaid, but I'm okmwith it. They provide good care to these people. They also have a development office and do raise money, but not nearly enough to cover the cost of the care. A hallmark of a civilized society is one that will care for those who can't care for themselves A doomed society will attempt to care for those unwilling to care for themselves. You mean like Canada? Yeah, those guys are teetering on the brink. Or Finland? Who can believe they've made it as long as they have.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 5, 2012 13:13:25 GMT -5
A doomed society will attempt to care for those unwilling to care for themselves. You mean like Canada? Yeah, those guys are teetering on the brink. Or Finland? Who can believe they've made it as long as they have. I hear Sweden is a real hell hole too
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 5, 2012 13:20:42 GMT -5
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 5, 2012 13:26:21 GMT -5
I'd consider a country a hell hole where half of everything I produced was confiscated by a country.
No wonder it's GDP per capita is about half that of the US.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Feb 5, 2012 13:27:57 GMT -5
Uh, maybe because liberals promise all those freebies that taxpayers pay for? I don't vote against my best interests and since we allow those that don't have skin in the game to vote, what do you think they will do? Vote for those who say work? Not bloody likely. I don't vote for anyone tht says raise taxes, either, but that is because I pay those taxes. Ronald Reagan and Bush Sr raised taxes, did you vote for them?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 13:28:29 GMT -5
Because the inference was that it was meant like this: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghettoInstead of the newest form of immigrants in the country. I saw that his meaning of the word was very clear; I just call out when some posters proclaim that it was used in another way. Seems like you agree that he meant it in the former manner and not the latter? No. I think they are the same. Ethnic ghettos are pretty much always impoverished and neglected neighborhoods. Have you ever been to a swanky ghetto? Run down tenements, housing projects, flop houses... you know where we keep those, right?
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Feb 5, 2012 13:30:43 GMT -5
I'd consider a country a hell hole where half of everything I produced was confiscated by a country. No wonder it's GDP per capita is about half that of the US. Confiscated? You have a 50% tax rate? This rhetoric doesn't help us.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Feb 5, 2012 13:35:03 GMT -5
And why are there so many minority poor in America? Illegal immigration from Central and South America has a big part in it.The mass majority of illegals have little education, some do not even speak English. Not exactly going to fall into a $50,000 a year job. I have an idea. Round the illegals up, send home, and we lower the number of poor people here in the states, to a more manageable number. Of course we would have to lay off some emergency staff crews in the hospitals, as number of visits for free care would tumble. Value Buy. How much tax dollars will it take to round up all the illegals and send them back?
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