reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Dec 16, 2011 12:22:26 GMT -5
Still nothing official, but if he does, he's likely going Libertarian. I'm hoping he does because I'd like to be able to say that at least once I was able to vote for the best person to do the job rather than the 'lesser of the two useless assholes'. We could know for sure next week. i thought Ron Paul got short shrift in 2008, but compared to what they did to Johnson this year, Paul was treated like a rock star. I agree with Johnson getting blindsided, but Ron Paul in 2008 didn't seem as bad because he was the first to pull off huge online one-day donation of about 6 million from small personal donors, also Ron Paul had a better grassroots campaign to where we went from door to door explaining RP's views. With the fact that we actually understood his views and reasonably discussed them. P.S. Ron Paul's teaparty money bomb at 1.2 million so far
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 16, 2011 12:53:31 GMT -5
Obama's approval numbers have gone from -10% on 8/30/11 to -3% on 12/14/11.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 16, 2011 14:18:43 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of nation-building. However, I am in favor of taking our enemies at their word. We ignore the mullahs in Iran at our peril, and I thought Ron Paul went off the deep end into a kind of incoherent naivete usually reserved for Democrats. The national mission of Iran is to be a "nation of martyrs" to spread radical islam throughout the world. There's government propaganda from television and billboards promising to wipe Israel off the map. I think it's a mistake to ignore the myriad threats posed by nuclear weapons, and nuclear weapons technology in the hands of the Iranian government. And it's the kind of mistake we will not recover from-- we won't get a do-over on misjudging Iran's nuclear ambitions. I frankly think Ron Paul permanently and forever disqualified himself from the Presidency last night. I have been able to ignore my differences in foreign policy with him for a long time figuring, that it might even be a refreshing change-- but you can't ignore nut jobs with nukes, and he appears determined to do just that.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Dec 16, 2011 14:18:59 GMT -5
What has he done to get that approval increase? Come up with a super committee idea that was obvious to fail?
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Dec 16, 2011 14:20:35 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of nation-building. However, I am in favor of taking our enemies at their word. We ignore the mullahs in Iran at our peril, and I thought Ron Paul went off the deep end into a kind of incoherent naivete usually reserved for Democrats. The national mission of Iran is to be a "nation of martyrs" to spread radical islam throughout the world. There's government propaganda from television and billboards promising to wipe Israel off the map. I think it's a mistake to ignore the myriad threats posed by nuclear weapons, and nuclear weapons technology in the hands of the Iranian government. And it's the kind of mistake we will not recover from-- we won't get a do-over on misjudging Iran's nuclear ambitions. I frankly think Ron Paul permanently and forever disqualified himself from the Presidency last night. I have been able to ignore my differences in foreign policy with him for a long time figuring, that it might even be a refreshing change-- but you can't ignore nut jobs with nukes, and he appears determined to do just that. Ron Paul also said that Iraq was going to be a quagmire and that there was no valid proof of WMD. He was right about Iraq, so I will take his word on Iran.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 16, 2011 14:21:25 GMT -5
Short answer- Obama's odds of being re-elected are somewhere around 55% to 60% in my book. The media STILL doesn't care who he really is, and in spite of three years of confirmation in the bag that he's the hard left nut many of us suspected he would be-- the lame stream press remains in the Obama fan club, and remarkably uncurious about who he is and what he's doing to the country.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 14:24:30 GMT -5
Never underestimate the media darling.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Dec 16, 2011 14:26:20 GMT -5
Never underestimate the media darling. you got that wrong, it is supposed to be " never underestimate the stupidity of people ". Media isn't the problem, the stupid people that fall for false information are.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Dec 16, 2011 14:30:57 GMT -5
I am one who believes Obama is a "hard left nut" but I also believe he is a "smart nut" who is very calculating and knows he has to maintain support from a number of the moderates and independents to win another term.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Dec 16, 2011 15:38:36 GMT -5
Short answer- Obama's odds of being re-elected are somewhere around 55% to 60% in my book. The media STILL doesn't care who he really is, and in spite of three years of confirmation in the bag that he's the hard left nut many of us suspected he would be-- the lame stream press remains in the Obama fan club, and remarkably uncurious about who he is and what he's doing to the country. Despite the claims by some on here that Obama is a "hard left nut" or a "Communist" he is actually governing as a moderate, many of whose positions have been aligned or to the right of Richard Nixon's. To the extent that his base is upset with him, it is because he has not governed far enough to the left for many of them. That and he has been perceived as going soft on Republicans. "To the extent that his base is upset with him, it is because he has not governed far enough to the left for many of them." As a supporter...I am also upset with those of his so called base who are upset with him , threatening not to offer him their support..over his not going all out and support their extreme views..and wonder when it comes time to support or not again..are they going to turn to ....who?? To expect to have a POTUS , especially when you are a Democrat, where there is such a spread of ideas and beliefs..unlike the Pubs, where there it is so much in lock step in beliefs..though you can see how they too also melt down if a candidate is not in almost 100 % lock step with the norm..to be 100% in line with ones beliefs and if not then one just leaves them..why? Where are you going to get anything close in governing and policy as to how one feels on topics is beyond me, just does not compute to me..
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Dec 16, 2011 15:54:25 GMT -5
Sure wish they would experiment with their "leftie ideas" on their own budgets at home and then let us know how it worked out. Just don't picture to many people who would spend twice as much as they make, get laid off and then borrow more money to pave the driveway just so they would have a job for the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 16:16:17 GMT -5
Never underestimate the media darling. you got that wrong, it is supposed to be " never underestimate the stupidity of people ". Media isn't the problem, the stupid people that fall for false information are. Unfortunately most people perceive what they see on the evening news as full coverage of the political situation, when it's not. They don't understand the psychology of continual negative coverage of one side with positive coverage of the other. I remember telling my wife before the first Republican candidate even announced running for POTUS "There's going to be all kinds of problems with the Republicans running this year on a daily basis. With Obama being shown as a wonderful family man full of positive feelings and patriotism. It was an easy call. That's what I mean by "The media darling".
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diamonds
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Post by diamonds on Dec 16, 2011 18:11:40 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of nation-building. However, I am in favor of taking our enemies at their word. We ignore the mullahs in Iran at our peril, and I thought Ron Paul went off the deep end into a kind of incoherent naivete usually reserved for Democrats. The national mission of Iran is to be a "nation of martyrs" to spread radical islam throughout the world. There's government propaganda from television and billboards promising to wipe Israel off the map. I think it's a mistake to ignore the myriad threats posed by nuclear weapons, and nuclear weapons technology in the hands of the Iranian government. And it's the kind of mistake we will not recover from-- we won't get a do-over on misjudging Iran's nuclear ambitions. I frankly think Ron Paul permanently and forever disqualified himself from the Presidency last night. I have been able to ignore my differences in foreign policy with him for a long time figuring, that it might even be a refreshing change-- but you can't ignore nut jobs with nukes, and he appears determined to do just that. Ron Paul's dangerous answers regarding Iran just took him off the radar as far as I am concerned. Iran is a radical theocray and Ahmadinejad has threatened to wipe Israel off the map. Ron Paul is saying let Israel fight it's own battles and to pull back santions from Iran? Paul looked frail and his responses were like selecting a piece of chocolate and finding fruit inside. k to you...
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humok
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Post by humok on Dec 16, 2011 18:26:02 GMT -5
I do not think for one Minute that Ron would ignore Iran but neither do I think he would try to goad Iran into a conflict like the Israeli and our current regime are doing. Nor do I think he would slap the face of Israel like Obama did not to long after he was in office. I would love to see Obama, Clinton and the rest of the staff along with his Czars, get the hell out of Washington.
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diamonds
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Post by diamonds on Dec 16, 2011 18:30:08 GMT -5
you got that wrong, it is supposed to be " never underestimate the stupidity of people ". Media isn't the problem, the stupid people that fall for false information are. Unfortunately most people perceive what they see on the evening news as full coverage of the political situation, when it's not. They don't understand the psychology of continual negative coverage of one side with positive coverage of the other. I remember telling my wife before the first Republican candidate even announced running for POTUS "There's going to be all kinds of problems with the Republicans running this year on a daily basis. With Obama being shown as a wonderful family man full of positive feelings and patriotism. It was an easy call. That's what I mean by "The media darling". ... Well put and saw that right off. Astonishing that you had to explain it.
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diamonds
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Post by diamonds on Dec 16, 2011 18:40:18 GMT -5
I do not think for one Minute that Ron would ignore Iran but neither do I think he would try to goad Iran into a conflict like the Israeli and our current regime are doing. Nor do I think he would slap the face of Israel like Obama did not to long after he was in office. I would love to see Obama, Clinton and the rest of the staff along with his Czars, get the hell out of Washington. humok: I don't know, Paul doesn't want to seem to face the dire possiblity or reality as it is. He made too light of it. We're dealing with a madman in Iran, who has said many times he wants to wipe out Israel and the US. Remember when GE/Jeffrey Immelt was shipping all that uranium to Iran? This is another of Obama's buddies and he needs to go also, as does Eric Holder who he is covering for. Obama is surrounded by corrupt advisors and I agree his relationship with Netanyahu is strained and disingenuous.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 16, 2011 22:38:02 GMT -5
I do not think for one Minute that Ron would ignore Iran but neither do I think he would try to goad Iran into a conflict like the Israeli and our current regime are doing. Nor do I think he would slap the face of Israel like Obama did not to long after he was in office. I would love to see Obama, Clinton and the rest of the staff along with his Czars, get the hell out of Washington. He doesn't seem to care if Iran has nuclear weapons or not. He flat said that the only thing that kept the peace between us and the Soviets was they had a bomb, too. I can't draw any other conclusion than that Paul sincerely believes a "cold war" scenario with Iran is a plausible scenario.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 16, 2011 23:19:32 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of nation-building. However, I am in favor of taking our enemies at their word. We ignore the mullahs in Iran at our peril, and I thought Ron Paul went off the deep end into a kind of incoherent naivete usually reserved for Democrats. The national mission of Iran is to be a "nation of martyrs" to spread radical islam throughout the world. There's government propaganda from television and billboards promising to wipe Israel off the map. I think it's a mistake to ignore the myriad threats posed by nuclear weapons, and nuclear weapons technology in the hands of the Iranian government. And it's the kind of mistake we will not recover from-- we won't get a do-over on misjudging Iran's nuclear ambitions. I frankly think Ron Paul permanently and forever disqualified himself from the Presidency last night. I have been able to ignore my differences in foreign policy with him for a long time figuring, that it might even be a refreshing change-- but you can't ignore nut jobs with nukes, and he appears determined to do just that. this opinion is completely at odds with this fellow, who researches such issues for the USMC. your specific point is addressed on page 5: www.mcu.usmc.mil/MES%20Monographs/MESM%20No1,%20August%202011%20%27The%20Strategic%20Culture%20of%20the%20Islamic%20Republic%20of%20Iran%27.pdf
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 17, 2011 0:36:02 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of nation-building. However, I am in favor of taking our enemies at their word. We ignore the mullahs in Iran at our peril, and I thought Ron Paul went off the deep end into a kind of incoherent naivete usually reserved for Democrats. The national mission of Iran is to be a "nation of martyrs" to spread radical islam throughout the world. There's government propaganda from television and billboards promising to wipe Israel off the map. I think it's a mistake to ignore the myriad threats posed by nuclear weapons, and nuclear weapons technology in the hands of the Iranian government. And it's the kind of mistake we will not recover from-- we won't get a do-over on misjudging Iran's nuclear ambitions. I frankly think Ron Paul permanently and forever disqualified himself from the Presidency last night. I have been able to ignore my differences in foreign policy with him for a long time figuring, that it might even be a refreshing change-- but you can't ignore nut jobs with nukes, and he appears determined to do just that. this opinion is completely at odds with this fellow, who researches such issues for the USMC. your specific point is addressed on page 5: www.mcu.usmc.mil/MES%20Monographs/MESM%20No1,%20August%202011%20%27The%20Strategic%20Culture%20of%20the%20Islamic%20Republic%20of%20Iran%27.pdf Thank you, but I will take Ron Paul at his word. If he doesn't mean what he said in the debate last night, he shouldn't have said it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 17, 2011 0:38:32 GMT -5
Oh, and one of my close family members is of direct Iranian descent-- his family is still back and forth out of Iran-- they are convinced Amedinejad will do exactly as he said he would and develop a weapon, and use that weapon to "wipe Israel off the map", and would use WMD against the US.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2011 0:54:43 GMT -5
this opinion is completely at odds with this fellow, who researches such issues for the USMC. your specific point is addressed on page 5: www.mcu.usmc.mil/MES%20Monographs/MESM%20No1,%20August%202011%20%27The%20Strategic%20Culture%20of%20the%20Islamic%20Republic%20of%20Iran%27.pdf Thank you, but I will take Ron Paul at his word. If he doesn't mean what he said in the debate last night, he shouldn't have said it. i wasn't commenting on the debate, i was commenting on what you said, specifically about the "nation of martyrs" (see page 3 of the paper posted). or don't. i don't care.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Dec 17, 2011 1:11:19 GMT -5
Oh, and one of my close family members is of direct Iranian descent-- his family is still back and forth out of Iran-- they are convinced Amedinejad will do exactly as he said he would and develop a weapon, and use that weapon to "wipe Israel off the map", and would use WMD against the US. Actually Amedinejad time in office is just about over...either by his term running out or being removed earlier by order of the supreme leader...and while Iran may use the threat o a atomic arsenal against it's neighbors..I believe they know if they did use it against Israel , they, Iran, would no longer exist as a nation... Firmly believe Israel would get it's licks , in spades..IMHO.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 17, 2011 10:36:32 GMT -5
Oh, and one of my close family members is of direct Iranian descent-- his family is still back and forth out of Iran-- they are convinced Amedinejad will do exactly as he said he would and develop a weapon, and use that weapon to "wipe Israel off the map", and would use WMD against the US. Actually Amedinejad time in office is just about over...either by his term running out or being removed earlier by order of the supreme leader...and while Iran may use the threat o a atomic arsenal against it's neighbors..I believe they know if they did use it against Israel , they, Iran, would no longer exist as a nation... Firmly believe Israel would get it's licks , in spades..IMHO. So, we should wait for them to use it and then wipe them out, too? I don't think you get it: THEY DON'T FUCKING CARE!!! THE IRANIAN MULLAHS ARE RELIGIOUS NUTJOBS WHO THINK THEY'RE FULFILLING THE WILL OF ALLAH DYING AS MARTYRS! They WILL use a nuclear weapon- against Israel, against European cities, and against the United States-- possibly all three simultaneously. Now, what's the Ron Paul solution to that scenario? And if the scenario seems implausible-- or worse, yet, impossible-- to Ron Paul-- then I don't want him anywhere near the White House.
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humok
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Post by humok on Dec 17, 2011 14:09:05 GMT -5
With all of our "Missle Defense Systems" along with the ones Bush plained to put over there(of course Obama is getting credit for it) that Putin is so pissed over along with the defense systems we have given Israel I do not spend a lot of time worrying about the nutjobs in the middle east. What I do worry about is the propaganda "Our" Govt keeps throwing at us to enable us to break the govts in the middle east so our Govt and the elite can move in and indoctrinate those countries into the Globalist scheme. We have Military Heads in place for a reason with many checks and balances. Remember that all of this info being thrown at us is coming from a govt that claims to fight countries that uses it's military against it's private citizens while all the time they are doing all they can to get laws passed that give the the right to do the same thing to us....I give you NDAA. nuf said.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2011 14:10:48 GMT -5
so, nobody on this thread has said that Obama has it sewn up. does anyone know anyone NOT on this thread who thinks so?
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humok
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Post by humok on Dec 17, 2011 14:13:01 GMT -5
dj...I do not know anyone that thinks Obama has anything sewn up except the same machine that put him there in the first place. We just have to see if people across this country have been paying attention to what is going on.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Dec 17, 2011 14:14:58 GMT -5
Actually Amedinejad time in office is just about over...either by his term running out or being removed earlier by order of the supreme leader...and while Iran may use the threat o a atomic arsenal against it's neighbors..I believe they know if they did use it against Israel , they, Iran, would no longer exist as a nation... Firmly believe Israel would get it's licks , in spades..IMHO. So, we should wait for them to use it and then wipe them out, too? I don't think you get it: THEY DON'T FUCKING CARE!!! THE IRANIAN MULLAHS ARE RELIGIOUS NUTJOBS WHO THINK THEY'RE FULFILLING THE WILL OF ALLAH DYING AS MARTYRS! They WILL use a nuclear weapon- against Israel, against European cities, and against the United States-- possibly all three simultaneously. Now, what's the Ron Paul solution to that scenario? And if the scenario seems implausible-- or worse, yet, impossible-- to Ron Paul-- then I don't want him anywhere near the White House. "IRANIAN MULLAHS ARE RELIGIOUS NUTJOBS " Don't agree with you there Paul...i BELEIVE VERY CALCULATING AND SHREWD AND MOST INTERESTED IN PROTECTING THEIR RARIFIED STATRUS AND REWARDS,..FINANCIAL AND POSITION WISE IN THE iRANIAN CULTURE..[oops sorry for the caps } If you follow Itranian happenings, that is one of the biggest complaints of so many millions of iranians..these people are not about religiouse beliefs as they are in protecting their own asses and position..supreme leader too..their support comes from the folks in the country [ mostly poor and uneducated] side and the revelutionary guards... However, don't misunderstand either, Iranians are also very patriotic and will support who ever is in charge if attacked as a country... weven those who are in charge are the last ones they would choose as leaders of the country..
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 17, 2011 14:27:38 GMT -5
dj...I do not know anyone that thinks Obama has anything sewn up except the same machine that put him there in the first place. We just have to see if people across this country have been paying attention to what is going on. i don't know any of his SUPPORTERS who think he has it sewn up. his detractors think he is toast.
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humok
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Post by humok on Dec 17, 2011 14:34:42 GMT -5
One can only hope!!!!
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Dec 17, 2011 23:22:11 GMT -5
the repubs don't like their own candidates .. why should anyone else?
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