8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 6, 2011 11:26:21 GMT -5
...:::"it will cost at least an extra $5,000 which we REALLY don't have right now":::...
This is the part that struck fear in my heart. If that means $250/head (for 20 extra people), then the 60-80 current guest count is already costing you $15k-$20k.
DF and I haven't done much in the way of planning, but I am the one with the large family and she is not. I am already invited to two of my cousins weddings, and I see there will be a need to invite people. I am probably going to draw the line at SOs, if you are not at least engaged, you don't merit an invite.
What are you supposed to do, station a sentry at the door with a list of photos and turn away anyone who doesn't belong? Either that or I could see myself putting a disclaimer on the invite that says "any extra people you invite eat off YOUR plate".
Oh god I am SO not cut out for this. I will spend my entire wedding reception keeping tabs on crook caterers making sure they don't open extra bottles just to try and charge me for them. I absolutely will be demanding to keep any leftovers. I'll hire people to watch the caterers and make sure that I get EVERY scrap of food that I paid for. Then perhaps I'll donate it to a food bank (at the value I'm being charged, of course) and the tax deduction could help offset the cost of the reception. I don't like to feel cheated or taken advantage of. I'll have to wire a bunch of cameras to make sure they don't pull any funny business. As a bonus, I'll have a record of the reception that will look a lot like how the movie "Clerks" was shot.
OK to help Firebird: this is not a one-off thing. You are getting married and families are joining, and as such, many of these people will not just disappear into thin air. I do agree you should not invite the extras just because they were sent to you -- if they were important enough to invite, you'd have already done so.
Part of my feelings on matters like these is as follows: no matter WHAT you do, you will offend SOMEONE. If you snub one person, they will say how family should come first. If you go into debt to invite everyone, they'll gossip about how you had to finance the wedding. If you scale back the reception in order to free up funds for more guests, they'll complain that they came all the way out for a lousy meal.
Just like we tell doxie, you can have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 6, 2011 11:28:02 GMT -5
...:::"DF's plan is "they won't come, so it doesn't matter." Literally, that's been his answer every time I've asked him "BUT WHAT IF THEY DO SHOW UP?!"":::...
If that is his serious answer, and if he is so certain they won't come, then he should have no qualms at all about agreeing (preferably in writing) that if they DO show up, HE must personally cover the shortfall within one month of the ceremony. If that means selling beloved possessions, giving up the cat, or whatever, that is the risk he takes.
But since they won't come, there is "no risk" so he should have no problem agreeing to it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 11:36:13 GMT -5
You're a very sneaky soul, WWBG.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 11:38:59 GMT -5
This is the part that struck fear in my heart. If that means $250/head (for 20 extra people), then the 60-80 current guest count is already costing you $15k-$20k.
I think we will be able to sneak it in under $15k at this point (we came up with some really cute centerpiece ideas that will basically cost nothing, and the alcohol, tuxes and invitations cost WAY less than I thought they would, so things are looking up).
OK to help Firebird: this is not a one-off thing. You are getting married and families are joining, and as such, many of these people will not just disappear into thin air. I do agree you should not invite the extras just because they were sent to you -- if they were important enough to invite, you'd have already done so.
Yup. Plus, my mother pointed out today that even if these people wouldn't ordinarily come to family events like this, they might come to THIS one because of the recent loss of DF's mother, just because they want to support him.
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Havoc
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Post by Havoc on Jul 6, 2011 11:40:48 GMT -5
For whatever reason, wedding planning tends to bring out "the best" in people... and a lot of people get uptight over some of the most comically inane things. I would just assume that cousin acted with the best of intentions and wouldn't be pissed about it... but I would just ignore all of the extra names. It will be more of an issue between you and DF... and maybe DF parents.... but most - if not all - of those people won't really care that they weren't invited. Presumably the guest list you put together includes the people that matter to you and are the ones that you want to share the day with. Leave it at that. If you guys get flack from family, just sincerely apologize and say that it is/was a small wedding with a limited guest list... and don't feel the need to explain further. People who are still upset about it, feel slighted or expect further expanation probably aren't the people that you are going to be socializing with often anyway. And on a last note, I would *not* send announcements to the extended list after the fact - I think it is looking for trouble where none is needed ("what? Distant cousin Joey got married? With an open bar?? And WE didn't get invited???"), and I would also *NOT* invite people to the wedding only. That can get horribly, horribly messy if ceremony-only family invitees who attend the wedding then travel over to the reception with everyone else. Even if they know there isn't a seat for them and say they just want to socialize, it can create a lot of awkwardness (at best).
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 11:41:28 GMT -5
DF and I haven't done much in the way of planning, but I am the one with the large family and she is not. I am already invited to two of my cousins weddings, and I see there will be a need to invite people. I am probably going to draw the line at SOs, if you are not at least engaged, you don't merit an invite.
I'm basically inviting serious SO's (living together, engaged, or married) and adding "+Guest" to anyone who is traveling from out of town OR will not know anyone there, because I figure that's polite. And with our original guest list, that worked out fine.
I would suggest keeping it small. Our original guest list was mostly "first generation up" - parents, aunts, uncles, and cousins plus a couple of grandparents with whom we're close. Of course, for you that could still turn out to be too many. So maybe just immediate family and certain close non-immediate relatives, with the understanding that they're going to keep quiet about attending so as not to offend the others?
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rangefinder
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Post by rangefinder on Jul 6, 2011 11:42:06 GMT -5
Can you hold on to the invitations for awhile? If they are far away send them out in a few weeks, when making reservations is tougher. That way you pacify future DH cause you did invite the cousins but also saved your guest list.. I don't envy you or your position-but here's my advice - make a decision, stick to it and then forget about it. Enjoy your wedding. There will be so many more details to attend to as it gets closer- you probably won't remember.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 11:43:22 GMT -5
Presumably the guest list you put together includes the people that matter to you and are the ones that you want to share the day with. Leave it at that. If you guys get flack from family, just sincerely apologize and say that it is/was a small wedding with a limited guest list... and don't feel the need to explain further. People who are still upset about it, feel slighted or expect further expanation probably aren't the people that you are going to be socializing with often anyway.
I think this approach is best.
And don't worry, I'd never invite people to only the ceremony or reception.
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Havoc
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Post by Havoc on Jul 6, 2011 11:43:51 GMT -5
...:::"DF's plan is "they won't come, so it doesn't matter." Literally, that's been his answer every time I've asked him "BUT WHAT IF THEY DO SHOW UP?!"":::... If that is his serious answer, and if he is so certain they won't come, then he should have no qualms at all about agreeing (preferably in writing) that if they DO show up, HE must personally cover the shortfall within one month of the ceremony. If that means selling beloved possessions, giving up the cat, or whatever, that is the risk he takes. But since they won't come, there is "no risk" so he should have no problem agreeing to it. A good tactic for the point of conversation.... but the problem I see if he takes her up on it is that since Dear Firebird is marrying him, the assets he liquidates to cover the added expense is really coming out of their joint pocket, which I think is what she wants to avoid. I would only take this route if I was sure that he would back down.... do you gamble, Fire?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 11:44:49 GMT -5
Can you hold on to the invitations for awhile? If they are far away send them out in a few weeks, when making reservations is tougher. That way you pacify future DH cause you did invite the cousins but also saved your guest list.. I don't think that's necessary, I'm just going to let DF know I plan to ignore the extra names and if he doesn't like it, I'll read him this thread ;D Plus, we're already cutting it kinda close on the invitations. They need to go out by the end of this month or there will be a different kind of Hell To Pay.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 11:45:56 GMT -5
A good tactic for the point of conversation.... but the problem I see if he takes her up on it is that since Dear Firebird is marrying him, the assets he liquidates to cover the added expense is really coming out of their joint pocket, which I think is what she wants to avoid. I would only take this route if I was sure that he would back down.... do you gamble, Fire? Hell no, and I'm pretty sure that WWBG was teasing me since he's been reading my recent posts about combining finances with DF. We, as a unit, don't have the money to cover this right now. End of story.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 6, 2011 12:02:20 GMT -5
I'd cut Cousin some slack. There are some perfectly reasonable reasons to send you a bigger list than you requested.
1. It was just easier because she has a spreadsheet of everyone in the family anyways.
2. She thought maybe you'd like to invite those people and just figured while she's getting some addresses, she'd might as well give them all to you so you don't have to come back to her later for more.
3. She's been married before and realizes that when you have decided your list is complete, it's fairly likely you're going to realize you forgot some people that you wanted to invite and maybe there are people on this list that are like that.
4. She realizes, like your DF, that these people will NEVER show up to your wedding...and thought it was a good way to get some more gifts, or at least a good way to let them know of the wedding since they wont' show up.
For the record, we made our guest list and divided it in half and sent it out to our mothers for addresses. They both came back with notes of "this person wasn't on the list, but here's their address if you wanted to invite them". Ended up being about 8 people we had totally forgotten about in making the list, but wanted to invite, and a few we had thought of but decided not to.
Maybe you're jaded from the passive aggressive stories on YM...sometimes people really are just trying to do you favors.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 12:14:27 GMT -5
Oh, I'm pretty sure I am jaded I think your reasons make a lot of sense, Hoops. And I like TheCousin so I'll definitely give her the benefit of the doubt on this one. Thanks for the input, everyone.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 6, 2011 12:18:08 GMT -5
I've never been married. My sister still gets angry about her daughter's reception. One of the first cousin's of her daughter (on her husband's side) brought his invited wife and kidsplus her sister, husband and kids. This couple was newly married at the time. That was 10 years ago. The cousin still is doing the same thing. My sister says they won't even be invited to the weddings of her sons.
I don't like receiving invitations from 3rd or 4th cousins. I come from a large family and these appear in my mail box. If I haven't seen or heard from them in years, I do nothing. If you can't even send me a Christmas card--now you want a wedding present. I don't think so.
As for your problem. I'd stick with YOUR guest list and not add the aunt's list.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 6, 2011 12:36:08 GMT -5
...:::"that since Dear Firebird is marrying him, the assets he liquidates to cover the added expense is really coming out of their joint pocket, which I think is what she wants to avoid":::...
I was sort of joking, but I did say "personally" cover the shortfall. He'd have to put up collateral up front. Assuming he has something of that value, this could be win/win for Firebird. She doesn't have to be the bad guy because she let him invite his family. If they don't show up, she has no guilt from not inviting them. If they do show up, she gets a HUGE "I told ya so" and "should'a listened to me" she can pull out for the rest of their lives any time he wants to assume the best without planning for the worst.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 12:42:27 GMT -5
It's not a bad idea but that kind of tactic would 1) greatly upset the ethos of our relationship and I wouldn't feel good about it and 2) almost certainly not work anyway. Neither DF nor I have piles of our "own" money to throw around right now. It's not like when we combined accounts we both brought thousands in assets to the table. We're just now breaking even with our net worth, and everything in the asset column so far is "mine." He doesn't have the cash to pay for a shortfall even from his contributions to our savings.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Jul 6, 2011 12:45:48 GMT -5
I have to ask, is this one of his cousins who is also one of your cousins? If not, can you talk to one of them and ask what they think?Way to make us sound like kissing cousins, shanendoah ;D (just kidding - and we're not, for the record; DF and I are NO BLOOD RELATION to one another whatsoever). And she's my aunts' sister, so no direct connection to my family. But you make a good point - maybe I can call one of my aunts and ask why TheCousin felt compelled to invite these particular people. It took the longest time for me to get that relationship in my head - I kept thinking wouldn't your aunt's sister be . . . your aunt?! But eveidently this aunt you speak of is an aunt by marriage, right?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 12:52:45 GMT -5
Here's the dealio (TMI for anyone who doesn't get a kick out of complicated family relationships):
My dad has two younger brothers. Let's call them Tom and Steve. Tom and Steve are married to two sisters (yes, two brothers married two sisters). Let's call those sisters Leslie and Beth.
Leslie and Beth have two MORE sisters (one of whom is TheCousin who inspired this post). So, four girls in all (sadly, my dad did not have an additional two brothers for them to marry ;D). Let's call their mother Janet.
Janet had a younger sister named Dana. Dana was my DF's mother. (She is now deceased.)
So: Janet is DF's aunt. Leslie and Beth, Janet's children (plus TheCousin and the fourth sister) are his cousins. Leslie and Beth are MY aunts by marriage because they are married to my dad's brothers, but I am no relation to TheCousin or the fourth sister. Or DF, thankfully.
Have I made your heads explode yet? ;D Once I had to draw all this out just to keep it straight.
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msgumby
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Post by msgumby on Jul 6, 2011 12:53:25 GMT -5
Count me with the crowd saying you can't guarantee people won't show up at your wedding. We got married on 3 weeks notice (health insurance expiring after graduation and realizing I couldn't be added to now-husbands plan at work) and it was a destination wedding (to Vegas) a week before Christmas. Almost everyone we invited showed up. We had a few relatives that couldn't make it, but apart from that everyone could make it. We got a few "you probably should invite so-and-so's" and one close friend (couple) asked if they could bring a third person with them (mutual friend was in town that weekend to visit them, so either they could bring the third or they couldn't make it. Our first round of invitations was the exact number our venue held, and we had about 95% acceptance. We almost invited more because we figured being short notice, around the holidays, and a destination for everyone we would get a lot more no's. I'm very glad we didn't do that or we would have been screwed.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 12:58:22 GMT -5
Hmm, now I'm thinking that I can never become a spy... any casual observer on these boards would be able to easily identify me from our unique family situation. Oops
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jul 6, 2011 13:13:06 GMT -5
Does DF have a trusted aunt or other matriarchal type relative that he could talk to and get some reassurance that he doesn't have to invite everyone? My DH sometimes has odd ideas about what is expected etiquette in his family but I can trust his mom to set him straight. He had initially thought we had to invite all of his cousins and his mom was the one that convinced him it would be OK to have the small wedding and then just introduce me at the next family reunion. His mom is one of 13 kids and his dad is one of 6, all of whom have many many kids, so inviting the cousins would have broken our bank.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 6, 2011 13:15:39 GMT -5
DH had a panic attack when my great aunt knew his aunt at my bridal shower. He said for a moment he thought we were related!
Turns out they play bridge together.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jul 6, 2011 13:17:11 GMT -5
I had this problem too. I have a much smaller family than DH. We had about 100 at the wedding, 10-15 for my side and the rest his. He insisted on us inviting all the distant relations and people normally invited on his side of the family, and he was absolutely correct with the guesses on who would actually come. The problem for us was that since DH's parents split up that each of the step parents have big families that they wanted invited. Tons of the people I'd never even heard of, and DH couldn't really tell me who they were or anything about them.
And I did hold out one a handful of invitations to the parents friends and co-workers. We just put our foot down at no invites to the step parents co-workers, and that was accepted okay. DH's mom threw what we called the B list party for them the next weekend. And unbeknownst to me she took part of the wedding decorations and the leftover favors to be used. I thought that was tacky of her, and it embarrassed me to think these people would think it was my idea. But I've never seen those people again so I guess it doesn't matter. We did get backlash from his stepmom when some of his dad's friends weren't invited though.
I have to be honest that I resented DH for a while after the wedding because his family was so totally ridiculous with the planning. He was in Korea, but he didn't do anything to reign in his mom or dad. And right at the end his stepmom really started showing out. I felt like I got no support from anyone, and DH's stepmom had my sister (my MOH) running around doing things for her instead of helping me out with stuff. Those feelings eventually fade, but every time I see a wedding planning thread I remember how much trouble it was.
When I have kids I will offer a cash gift in lieu of paying for a wedding. Weddings drag up so many feelings in people that everyone involved acts crazy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 13:19:34 GMT -5
Hmm, now I'm thinking that I can never become a spy... any casual observer on these boards would be able to easily identify me from our unique family situation. Oops Not as unique as you might think
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 13:24:40 GMT -5
Does DF have a trusted aunt or other matriarchal type relative that he could talk to and get some reassurance that he doesn't have to invite everyone?
Leslie or Beth (see post #80) can do that, but I pretty much agree with the posters who said "it's your wedding, invite the people you want and leave it at that." Hopefully DF will come around too.
And we now tease them about Aunt Donna regularly. ;D
Yeah, we get a lot of ribbing about being kissing cousins (even though we're not). At one point my dad was over at our place and made a comment about that, and DF and I answered loudly, in unison, "WE'RE NOT RELATED!" even though we were in different rooms at the time. I've hardly ever heard my dad laugh so hard.
The first time DF tried to kiss me, I stopped him and said, "Wait... let's figure this out... I have to make sure you're not my cousin."
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 6, 2011 13:25:48 GMT -5
Not as unique as you might think Really?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 6, 2011 13:32:09 GMT -5
Here's the dealio (TMI for anyone who doesn't get a kick out of complicated family relationships): My dad has two younger brothers. Let's call them Tom and Steve. Tom and Steve are married to two sisters (yes, two brothers married two sisters). Let's call those sisters Leslie and Beth. Leslie and Beth have two MORE sisters (one of whom is TheCousin who inspired this post). So, four girls in all (sadly, my dad did not have an additional two brothers for them to marry ;D). Let's call their mother Janet. Janet had a younger sister named Dana. Dana was my DF's mother. (She is now deceased.) So: Janet is DF's aunt. Leslie and Beth, Janet's children (plus TheCousin and the fourth sister) are his cousins. Leslie and Beth are MY aunts by marriage because they are married to my dad's brothers, but I am no relation to TheCousin or the fourth sister. Or DF, thankfully. Have I made your heads explode yet? ;D Once I had to draw all this out just to keep it straight. LOL... Firebird, I am an amateur genealogist. I can tell you that it was not at all uncommon for first cousins to marry.... I have a gr-gr-grandfather who moved from Mississippi to Louisiana because he wanted his children to find spouses outside the extended family..... in fact I have a third cousin who is married to her fourth cousin... ;D
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mithrin
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Post by mithrin on Jul 6, 2011 13:36:06 GMT -5
For any wedding planners in the same situation. When DF says distant relatives he doesn't even know should be invited just for being polite, simply ask DF if they would really be offended if any of those distant relatives got married and didn't send an invite to DF. Talk to FMIL beforehand to find out how many of those distant relatives ARE already married that DF doesn't even know about--that way if DF takes the position that they'd be mortally offended if a third cousin didn't send them an invite, you can bring out the list of those who already got married and DF didn't even notice.
As for my wedding, we invited all of my aunts and uncles and first cousins since it's standard in our family (and I grew up seeing my first cousins either monthly (dad's side), or several times a year (mom's side); except for the two out-of-state families). We didn't plan on any of them actually coming though since I was from the Midwest, and we got married on the west coast, where DW's family is from and where we were living. I'd gotten invites from all my first cousins who got married while I was on the west coast and knew they didn't expect me to come but included all the cousins. In fact, since I didn't want my grandparents to feel obligated to spend the $ making the trip, we scheduled a 'reception' (really a picnic at the city park) for the weekend after the wedding in my hometown. We included the info on that in the invites to all my Midwest relatives. Gave us a chance to celebrate with some of them, and gave my grandparents an out so that they didn't feel obligated to make an expensive trip out to the wedding.
Had all of my family actually come to the wedding, we would have doubled the guest list (12 sets of aunts/uncles, 20+ cousins, many with spouses and kids), but in our case, we really did know that they wouldn't come.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 6, 2011 13:43:06 GMT -5
Firebird, that sounds a bit like DH's family His paternal grandmother and great-aunt married brothers, so his dad has several "double cousins". I think there is a brother-brother sister-sister marriage among the "double cousins" in FIL's generation as well. And seems like they are all called Junior, which is less than helpful!
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msgumby
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Post by msgumby on Jul 6, 2011 13:57:34 GMT -5
My dad was very into genealogy, so I know we have a few knots in our family tree as well. Back when polygamy was legal in Utah, I had a relative (I'm a direct descendant of his brother) who met a set of identical triplets. He married two of the three triplets (the third one died before he had a chance to marry her) and the second triplets daughter from a previous marriage. While he didn't marry anyone that was HIS blood relative, it still has a major ICK factor. We were in Utah visiting the few relatives we still have there a while back, and my dad showed me their gravestones (a 4-sided pilar with one side for each).
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