In Red state/Blue state education Red states win.

[henryclay]

Call it parental involvement, homework, lower taxes or non-union teachers, the majority of the top 500 US High Schools are in Red states. In the running, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Vermont aren't even close, and of the top 500 schools in the country, one Blue state didn't have a single school listed.

That's the findings of two separate and unrelated surveys by Newsweek and The Washington Post.

When it come to excellence in education, red states rule — at least according to a panel of experts assembled by Tina Brown’s Newsweek. Using a set of indicators ranging from graduation rate to college admissions and SAT scores, the panel reviewed data from high schools all over the country to find the best public schools in the country.

blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/06/20/blue-state-schools-the-shame-of-a-nation/

www.newsweek.com/feature/2011/americas-best-high-schools.html

[chiver78]

your second link is broken. use this instead:

www.newsweek.com/2011/06/20/best-american-high-schools-how-we-compiled-the-list.html

I'm reading the article now, thanks for posting it.

[billisonboard]

How about the other approximately 27,000 high schools?

[henryclay]

chiver, the link works fine for me, so it must be something about your "settings". And the link you provided tells how the survey was done, but the link I provided lists the top 500 schools.

bills, I believe you are a blue stater. But you may find out abpput the other 27,000 schooles if you'd bother to read the links instead of , , , , , instead of, , , , , well, you know, , , instead of.

But you probably don't "really" want to know anyway. That may be because you're afraid to know your own schools may not have made the list.

[Deleted]

Henry I didn't read the stories. I thought that it would be more fun to read Warsaw's rebuttal & how the pubs somehow slanted the test (or faked it or whatever). Sometimes I just like to hear the funny joke punchline first.

[billisonboard]

Jun 26, 2011 13:10:06 GMT -5 henryclay said:

chiver, the link works fine for me, so it must be something about your "settings". And the link you provided tells how the survey was done, but the link I provided lists the top 500 schools.

bills, I believe you are a blue stater. But you may find out abpput the other 27,000 schooles if you'd bother to read the links instead of , , , , , instead of, , , , , well, you know, , , instead of.

But you probably don't "really" want to know anyway. That may be because you're afraid to know your own schools may not have made the list.

The list show the top 500 high schools. There are approximately 27,500 high schools in the country. The article does not address the other 27,000. While it is great to highlight select schools with select demographics that excel, I am more concerned about the vast majority of schools that do not have the advantages of handpicked students or a location in an area that has unique demographics.

There are six schools from my state of residency. 5 are from one city. The socio-economic reality of that city makes it clear to me why schools are rated as they are. The other is a small island community with a predominately up-scale population.

[billisonboard]

Jun 26, 2011 13:32:22 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Henry I didn't read the stories. I thought that it would be more fun to read Warsaw's rebuttal & how the pubs somehow slanted the test (or faked it or whatever). Sometimes I just like to hear the funny joke punchline first.

Since you didn't bother to read, here is some more information from the first link in the OP:

As you go down the list, the numbers get a little more balanced. Fifty of the top 100 Newsweek schools are red, fifty blue — though according to the Washington Post, the split is sixty-one red, thirty-nine blue.

[Shirina]

Many of the top schools are magnet schools; I went to a science and mathematics magnet school myself for a time, and you do have to qualify. They don't take just anyone. I think this, more than a state's political leanings, has to do with how well these schools do.

Now, I don't have the time or inclination to do the research required, but I would be curious how many of these top schools actually exist in a pocket population that leans the other way. Just because a state votes a certain way, the electoral college process distorts any claims that being in a certain political clime equates to better schools. It is quite possible that a school in a red state exists within a community that actually votes blue. They are just outnumbered, and the electoral college essentially minimizes, or even eliminates, their local political representation on a state or national scale.

[henryclay]

bills, you seem to be working overtime to have people think you read the links when your posts are such glaring giveaways that you did not. It's your trademark. Why do you do things like that?

[henryclay]

Shrina, even New Orleans, the city of personified decadence, made the list. Their Benjamin Franklin High School is number 27 of the top 500. Does it rally matter what "kind" of school it is when a place like New Orleans can produce a school of that caliber, when the entire education system of one other state can't?

[Shirina]

Shrina, even New Orleans, the city of personified decadence, made the list. Their Benjamin Franklin High School is number 27 of the top 500. Does it rally matter what "kind" of school it is when a place like New Orleans can produce a school of that caliber, when the entire education system of one other state can't?

Yes, in fact, I think it does matter. When you cluster the best and brightest into one school, you will end up with a pocket of excellence even in the most reprobate educational system. Of course not all such schools will succeed, but when they do, they will top the lists.

[billisonboard]

Jun 26, 2011 14:02:55 GMT -5 henryclay said:

bills, you seem to be working overtime to have people think you read the links when your posts are such glaring giveaways that you did not. It's your trademark. Why do you do things like that?

Gee, henryclay, have anything to say on topic or just personal attacks?

I read the articles. What makes you think I didn't?

[zipity]

the panel reviewed data from high schools all over the country to find the best public schools in the country.

Unfortunately this quote from your first link is inaccurate, the panel didn't review public schools they reviewed the top schools. Two distinctly different subjects. Your example of Benjamin Franklin High School is a great example. If you check out their admissions policy, they don't take anyone as public schools do, in order to be admitted you need better than an A score in Reading, Language and Math. In fact to get in you need a 98-99 or better in two of the three subjects, in the third you are allowed to slip to a 94-95 or better score. Not exactly "public - we take everyone" education. Now I don't suppose you'd want to do a bit of research and discuss actual public schools by state ranking.

[henryclay]

Well zip, , you got me. The surveys were done by Newsweek and the Washington Post. That fact alone should have alerted me that a skunk was in the woodpile. Then I saw the "experts" who did the survey and read up on how they did it. Wow!

It's a pure left wing ad hominem on the public education system in the US and , , , just as you and the others above have pointed out, , , is worthless. I therefore apologize to all liberals for posting it. BUT . . .

For any conservatiove that is interested, it does contain some distinct points of interest. The first being: If you want students to achieve anything, give them realistinc challenges., , , and take the time to nurture their progress.

What a concept!

bills, what can I say? Your posts and the links just aren't from the same playbook.

[safeharbor37]

These surveys don't really provide a valid comparison of State Education Systems. At most they tell us where the most selective schools are which, when one adds highly selective admission criteria, low student/teacher ratios and, no doubt, highly inflated budgets, produce graduates who mainly score high on the SAT and go to college.
Lots of folks whine about schools "teaching tests." I can assure that these "elite" schools teach the SAT intensely. I suspect that one would have to take a look at the other 27,000 schools before one could reach a valid conclusion about whose schools are best.

[henryclay]

Safe, you may be right, and like one poster above said about time to research it, it's above my druthers, but , , , if the researchers intended for the outcome to be as it turned out, they sure hid that criteria well in their methodology statement.

Looking at the chart on this link, I get the impression that as things lay right now budgets per student are universally inflated beyond reason.

I draw your attention to the comparison of todays dollar per student against the same cost in today's dollars for the oldest record, , 1962. It should bring home the adage that throwing money at education only causes the cost of educatin to go up. To that end, why would it cost 7 times as much, (in 2008 dollars), to have a student warm a desk than it did in 1962 using the same dollars??

And as I picked schools off the list at random, only a few fit the category of magnet or charter schools. Instead they are, (the ones I looked at), were just plain "schools".

nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

[billisonboard]

Jun 26, 2011 15:43:08 GMT -5 henryclay said:

...

bills, what can I say? Your posts and the links just aren't from the same playbook.

Oh, a "non" answer.

[hello fromWarsaw]

I saw where the USA is #17 or so, all schools, but #1 if you take out the schools that include the bottom 10% economically. We screw the really poor. Guess who! TY Pubs! ;D
Won't be fixed until we have a living wage either...

[vonnie6200]

Jun 26, 2011 18:44:15 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

I saw where the USA is #17 or so, all schools, but #1 if you take out the schools that include the bottom 10% economically. We screw the really poor. Guess who! TY Pubs! ;D

And just how are the Pubs responsible?

[hello fromWarsaw]

I know- let's do away with the minimum wage, cut taxes on the rich, and destroy medicare!!

[vonnie6200]

Jun 26, 2011 19:01:54 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

I know- let's do away with the minimum wage, cut taxes on the rich, and destroy medicare!!

Well that just explains the whole school system now!

[lakhota]

Red State Education Rules? Guess Again.

Seizing on recent rankings of American high schools by Newsweek and the Washington Post, Walter Russell Mead crowed that "blue state education [is] the shame of the nation." Eager for any data point to bash the supposedly high-tax, big government, union-dominated states which generally vote for Democrats, the conservative blogosphere quickly regurgitated Mead's jubilation "that the very best public high schools in the country are heavily concentrated in red states."

Sadly for the purveyors of right-wing propaganda, the bigger picture of American public education isn't a pretty one for their side. As the numbers show, reading comprehension, graduate rates, ACT scores and state education funding are generally lowest where Republicans poll best.



Nevertheless, Mead and his fellow conservative water carriers line Red State and Instapundit did their best to convert failure into success:

When it come [sic] to excellence in education, red states rule -- at least according to a panel of experts assembled by Tina Brown's Newsweek...The results make depressing reading for the teacher unions: the very best public high schools in the country are heavily concentrated in red states.

Three of the nation's ten best public high schools are in Texas -- the no-income tax, right-to-work state that blue model defenders like to characterize as America at its worst. Florida, another no-income tax, right-to-work state long misgoverned by the evil and rapacious Bush dynasty, has two of the top ten schools.

A word of advice to conservatives desperately trying to smear teachers and other public workers: when trapped in a hole, first stop digging.

As the showdown over Scott Walker's war on public employee unions heated up earlier this year, the right-wing blogosphere made the mistake of complaining that Wisconsin received millions of dollars in federal education aid when solidly Republican red states get much, much more. Then, the Republican union busters whined that Badger state students can't read. As it turns out, Wisconsin students outperform their counterparts in those reddest of states where collective bargaining rights are few - or non-existent.

A day after he inadvertently drew attention to the persistent phenomenon of "red state socialism" (that is, the one-flow of federal tax dollars from Washington DC to heavily Republican states), Terence Jeffrey of CNS News protested that "two-thirds of Wisconsin eighth graders can't read proficiently." The implication, of course, is that the unacceptable scores are the fault of overpaid, undeserving public school teachers.

Sadly for Jeffrey and his right-wing echo chamber, the data show that Wisconsin schoolchildren out-read the kids in states where Republicans poll best and public workers have the fewest collective bargaining rights. Those know-nothing red states also happen to be where the federal government most heavily subsidizes the local education systems.

The numbers - and the electoral map - tell the tale. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, Wisconsin does in fact spend more per student than some of its Midwestern neighbors even as its pupils score less well. But with 34% of its eighth graders students at or above the target reading proficiency, Wisconsin far outperforms the Republicans' solid south (and the national average of 30%). Only Kentucky, which receives substantially more money from DC can match Wisconsin's scores. Florida and Texas? Not so much.

Just as telling (as the table above reveals), the woefully inadequate per student spending levels are propped up only by generous federal spending provided by blue state tax payers. Meanwhile, the bluest of states in the Northeast spend more and get what they pay for. In Connecticut, 43% of eighth graders are at or above reading proficiency. The Nutmeg state spends $14,610 per pupil per year. New Hampshire (39%, $11,951), Vermont (40%, $14,421) New Jersey (42%, $17,620), Pennsylvania (40%, $11,741) and Massachusetts (42%, $13,667) pay the price for better educational outcomes.

If Americans want to see what the Republican future of gutted government and busted unions looks like, they need only look to Haley Barbour's Mississippi.

The education of its children provides just one of many heart-breaking stories of failure for the people of Mississippi. At $7,890 per student per year, Mississippi ranks 45th in school funding. (And even that meager figure is only made possible by substantial funding from the federal government.) According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department Education, only 22% of Magnolia State fourth graders read at or above grade level. By eighth grade, the figure falls to 19%. (Only the District of Columbia does worse.) It's no surprise that Mississippi has the lowest mean score on the ACT college admissions test taken by 96% of the state's high school graduates. And as it turns out, only 63% of its children even graduate, less than the national average of 69% (and much lower than the 81% in, for example, Wisconsin.)

Of course, dismal schools aren't the only place where the Republican race to the bottom leads. In their all-out war to crush union - and Democratic - power, red staters would remake the rest of America in their image. Unfortunately for the GOP mythmakers, the numbers show that incomes, working conditions, health care and educational performance are worst where union protections are weakest and Republicans poll best.

www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/22/987697/-Red-State-Education-Rules-Guess-Again

NOTE: The above link contains many supporting source links.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Do you knpw which party hates the minimum wage, Vonnie? (or ANYTHING?)

[lakhota]

GOP to America: We're All Mississippians Now

Republicans have seen the future and it's in Mississippi.

On the same day Wisconsin Republicans turned to unprecedented and possibly illegal maneuvers to strip public workers of collective bargaining rights, the Michigan legislature blessed emergency powers for Governor Rick Snyder to terminate municipal contracts across the state. And while Idaho joined Tennessee in seeking to curb teachers' unions, in Ohio SB5 is moving full steam ahead. Meanwhile, back in Washington, GOP Senators introduced a national "right-to-work" bill designed to make today's draconian red state restrictions on union organizing the law of the land tomorrow.

Sadly, the numbers show that incomes, working conditions, educational performance and health care are worst where union protections are weakest and Republicans poll best. And by almost any measure of social dysfunction, it is Mississippi - the most conservative state in the nation - where the GOP race to the bottom leads.



To make their case during the stand-off in Madison, conservatives took aim at Wisconsin's teachers. Unfortunately for their GOP echo chamber, the right-wing blogosphere made the mistake of complaining that Wisconsin received millions of dollars in federal education aid when solidly Republican red states get much, much more. Then, the would-be Republican union busters are whining that Badger state students can't read. As it turns out, Wisconsin students outperform their counterparts in those reddest of states where collective bargaining rights are few - or non-existent.

Like in Mississippi.

The education of its children provides just one of many heart-breaking stories of failure for the people of Mississippi. At $7,890 per student per year, Mississippi ranks 45th in school funding. (And even that meager figure is only made possible by substantial funding from the federal government.) According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department Education, only 22% of Magnolia State fourth graders read at or above grade level. By eighth grade, the figure falls to 19%. (Only the District of Columbia does worse.) It's no surprise that Mississippi has the lowest mean score on the ACT college admissions test taken by 96% of the state's high school graduates. And as it turns out, only 63% of its children even graduate, less than the national average of 69% (and much lower than the 81% in, for example, Wisconsin.)

Much More: www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/002122.htm

[Deleted]

And just how are the Pubs responsible?

In a way we are. Remember that: It's more important that kids feel good about themselves than to be able to read when they graduate. The first liberal Democrat that came up with that should have been used as the pendulum on a tree (& the 2nd & the 3rd & so on until they shut up). Sure we would have killed a few of them but that's better than the loss of a generation of kids that now have no future because they graduated without being able to read, add, or make anything but sub par living because they don't have the skills to do anything else. Liberals are directly responsible for that, the housing mess & a heck of a lot more.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Too bad you have no actual evidence, Tex Just "common sense" Pub propaganda...

[vonnie6200]

Jun 26, 2011 19:37:25 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

And just how are the Pubs responsible?

In a way we are. Remember that: It's more important that kids feel good about themselves than to be able to read when they graduate. The first liberal Democrat that came up with that should have been used as the pendulum on a tree (& the 2nd & the 3rd & so on until they shut up). Sure we would have killed a few of them but that's better than the loss of a generation of kids that now have no future because they graduated without being able to read, add, or make anything but sub par living because they don't have the skills to do anything else. Liberals are directly responsible for that, the housing mess & a heck of a lot more.

[vonnie6200]

Jun 26, 2011 19:24:06 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

GOP to America: We're All Mississippians Now

Republicans have seen the future and it's in Mississippi.

On the same day Wisconsin Republicans turned to unprecedented and possibly illegal maneuvers to strip public workers of collective bargaining rights, the Michigan legislature blessed emergency powers for Governor Rick Snyder to terminate municipal contracts across the state. And while Idaho joined Tennessee in seeking to curb teachers' unions, in Ohio SB5 is moving full steam ahead. Meanwhile, back in Washington, GOP Senators introduced a national "right-to-work" bill designed to make today's draconian red state restrictions on union organizing the law of the land tomorrow.

Sadly, the numbers show that incomes, working conditions, educational performance and health care are worst where union protections are weakest and Republicans poll best. And by almost any measure of social dysfunction, it is Mississippi - the most conservative state in the nation - where the GOP race to the bottom leads.



To make their case during the stand-off in Madison, conservatives took aim at Wisconsin's teachers. Unfortunately for their GOP echo chamber, the right-wing blogosphere made the mistake of complaining that Wisconsin received millions of dollars in federal education aid when solidly Republican red states get much, much more. Then, the would-be Republican union busters are whining that Badger state students can't read. As it turns out, Wisconsin students outperform their counterparts in those reddest of states where collective bargaining rights are few - or non-existent.

Like in Mississippi.

The education of its children provides just one of many heart-breaking stories of failure for the people of Mississippi. At $7,890 per student per year, Mississippi ranks 45th in school funding. (And even that meager figure is only made possible by substantial funding from the federal government.) According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department Education, only 22% of Magnolia State fourth graders read at or above grade level. By eighth grade, the figure falls to 19%. (Only the District of Columbia does worse.) It's no surprise that Mississippi has the lowest mean score on the ACT college admissions test taken by 96% of the state's high school graduates. And as it turns out, only 63% of its children even graduate, less than the national average of 69% (and much lower than the 81% in, for example, Wisconsin.)

Much More: www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/002122.htm

Yes and all is wonderful in union strongholds - like Detroit for instance.

[vonnie6200]

Jun 26, 2011 19:21:14 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

Do you knpw which party hates the minimum wage, Vonnie? (or ANYTHING?)

Apparently I know nothing - especially how the minimum wage became the topic.

[hello fromWarsaw]

The people the worst off economically have the worst schools, period- because they have the worst EVERYTHING! ;D