hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 27, 2011 8:48:00 GMT -5
$10.50- 1968's min wage now-about what EVERY modern country but our Pub-default crappe system has...again and again and again....
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 27, 2011 8:51:44 GMT -5
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jun 27, 2011 9:00:58 GMT -5
Warsaw's not going to let any thing like facts get in his way
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 27, 2011 9:13:15 GMT -5
They have lots more help to make up any difference- like public transportation.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 27, 2011 9:18:14 GMT -5
And it's just as I said. EU, Japan Canada, NZ, Aus.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jun 27, 2011 9:20:42 GMT -5
Yes, in fact, I think it does matter. When you cluster the best and brightest into one school, you will end up with a pocket of excellence even in the most reprobate educational system. Of course not all such schools will succeed, but when they do, they will top the lists. Wow...so bringing in students who want to learn and have a family structure that most likely values education will make a teaching/learning institution more successful??? Who woulda' thunk it So unions, wages, spending, etc have very little to do with it then? Another mind boggling fact! Oh, but more compensation for teachers and more money thrown into those poor performing schools will turn them right around!!!
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jun 27, 2011 9:26:37 GMT -5
The people the worst off economically have the worst schools, period- because they have the worst EVERYTHING! ;D And what effort do they put in to help correct it? Oh, yeah - they do nothing but piss and moan...just like you.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 27, 2011 9:26:57 GMT -5
Japan 5.52 euros = $7.86 American
Canada $8.00 per hour
New Zealand $10.89
Seems with most of your choices there hello fromWarsaw we are pretty even steven with your every modern country theory.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jun 27, 2011 9:29:25 GMT -5
Pass a living wage What is a living wage? You won't get an answer to that one....people have shown over and over that they want the cheapest price, and yet some still complain that companies should pay more and they should also pay a higher corporate tax rate too. As for the actual topic of the thread, I think the best thing to do would be to see what these schools are doing to make them work and try to duplicate it.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 27, 2011 9:31:44 GMT -5
No, hello fromWarsaw believe all minimum wage should be 10.50 an hour, yet when we had our last (me discussing him hemhawing) session of this he couldn't or wouldn't answer the questions put about what a business will need to do to survive having it's labor cost increased by 1/2 yet not increase cost nor reduce labor cost.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 27, 2011 9:37:21 GMT -5
Sure. The rich areas are NOT the problem- DC is like 70% black ghetto... UH-oohhh, did somebody say the magic words? Washington DC and ghetto both in the same sentence? Did somebody say money is really the problem? Did somebody say that money was the problem in the most highly politicized, best MOST government managed piece of real estate in the [possibly] entire world, and it's poor school performance gets blamed on money? The place where it costs $6,000 dollars per student MORE to provide them with a desk in a classroom than the national average, ($16,408 per student versus $10,499), and the Democrat president killed vouchers, where the per capita income [see 2010 census] is $40,846 a year as opposed to the national per capita income of $27,041, , , , and the liberals blame poor schools all on money? Hey guys, I was wondering how rediculous the excuses would get. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the response. But surely there's more. Surely the DC Representative to Congress, Mizz Eleanor Holmes Norton should have a say in this. Isn't there a video or two of her making the case that DC doesn't have enough income for it's enhabitants, or enough money for it's schools? Surely there's more? ? Or does anybody want to admit what DC REALLY represents? Does any liberal want to admit that DC is a microcosm of what liberal policies do to people, and what those same liberal policies are bringing to neighborhoods all over America? Especially it's schools?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jun 27, 2011 9:42:24 GMT -5
Yes...raise the minimum wage to $10.50 and quickly find that the new poverty rate is around $10.50 - and then they can't live on that wage anymore. Oh, but keeping thinking more money is the solution to the poverty problem As I've stated many times before...many of the same people I saw struggling paycheck to paycheck at $20k a year are now struggling paycheck to paycheck at $50k a year. Just like the country as a whole - income is not the problem, it's SPENDING HABITS that are the problem.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 27, 2011 10:02:58 GMT -5
I'd like a liberal's response to this: Did somebody say the magic words? Washington DC and ghetto both in the same sentence? Did somebody say money is really the problem? Did somebody say that money was the problem in the most highly politicized, best MOST government managed piece of real estate in the [possibly] entire world, and it's poor school performance gets blamed on money? The place where it costs $6,000 dollars per student MORE to provide them with a desk in a classroom than the national average, ($16,408 per student versus $10,499), and the Democrat a president killed vouchers, [/i] where the per capita income [see 2010 census] is $40,846 a year as opposed to the national per capita income of $27,041, , , , and the liberals blame poor schools all on money?Hey guys, I was wondering how rediculous the excuses would get. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the response. But surely there's more. Surely the DC Representative to Congress, Mizz Eleanor Holmes Norton should have a say in this. Isn't there a video or two of her making the case that DC doesn't have enough income for it's enhabitants, or enough money for it's schools? Surely there's more? ? Or does anybody want to admit what DC REALLY represents? Does any liberal want to admit that DC is a microcosm of what liberal policies do to people, and what those same liberal policies are bringing to neighborhoods all over America? Especially it's schools?[/blockquote]
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 27, 2011 10:07:24 GMT -5
This only comes as a surprise to ignorant, ill informed blue staters. We chose Florida for more than the zero percent state income tax. The more we looked into it, and the more we looked into Palm Beach County schools in particular- the less we were afraid of moving, and the more afraid we became of staying in Illinois. We're looking at private schools anyway, but we don't want our kid surrounded by idiots-- and as it turns out Palm Beach County has some of the best middle schools and high schools in the nation.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 27, 2011 10:08:40 GMT -5
No, hello fromWarsaw believe all minimum wage should be 10.50 an hour, yet when we had our last (me discussing him hemhawing) session of this he couldn't or wouldn't answer the questions put about what a business will need to do to survive having it's labor cost increased by 1/2 yet not increase cost nor reduce labor cost. If $10.50 an hour is good- wouldn't $21 be better? If government can mandate wages, why not simply have a nation-wide minimum $50,000 a year income?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 27, 2011 10:44:02 GMT -5
I thought this was a nice summary of the whole matter:
If the system is antiquated, and fundamentally flawed- then it really doesn't matter who's in charge of it. We need real, full, uninhibited choice.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 27, 2011 11:02:01 GMT -5
Where did the liberals go? They were doing so well. bills was doing especially well. He said there were over 27,000 public school in the country. He's right, there are. According to the Department of Education website there are quite a few more than 27,000. Like about 60,000 over 27,000, in fact. And that's just the public schools. They've got some private schools on top of that. But here, why not just read what they have to say about it. In 1980, Congress established the Department of Education as a Cabinet level agency. Today, ED operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and some 56 million students attending roughly 99,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 15 million postsecondary students. WHEW, , , bills, you UNDERwhelm me. But about that money thing. Did you read about the DC school system yet? Warsaw, where are you? Shrina? Chiver? Anybody? Any liberal at all?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 27, 2011 12:06:48 GMT -5
The things that are working are home schooling and community based schools, followed by private schools, and then charter schools. In the grand scheme of things, this article is rating the bottom of the barrel-- your run of the mill standard government run schools. So, it's actually a lot worse than the article indicates.
However, states where liberals are committed to defending the failed union model, students are most threatened because these schools will be the slowest to adapt. But they will ALL eventually have to adapt.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Jun 27, 2011 12:24:35 GMT -5
Hmm, okay, this is a question I'm willing to answer. Where did all the liberals go? Well, I certainly cannot speak for all liberals, but I can speak for myself, and I doubt I am a statistical anomaly.
I really don't like being here very much. I drop in perhaps once or twice for a few days and then vanish again for weeks or even months without coming back. To wit, I do not even lurk here when I'm not posting.
The reason is quite simple. I find the ugly, vitriolic, hyperbolic, nastiness of many conservatives here simply too much to bear. Life is too short to wade through the muck, and as many have pointed out again and again: no minds will be changed.
Where did all the liberals go? You (collectively) have made the atmosphere thoroughly unpleasant for liberals, and any question asked is simply a prelude to an interrogation no doubt laced with condescension, derision, and raw hatred.
This is why I choose not to hang my hat here, and while there are some good posters on both sides of the political divide, the constant contempt shown for anything even remotely liberal - and how liberals are blamed for everything imaginable (and unimaginable) - does not foster a community where most sane liberals would wish to spend any time.
This is just one person's opinion, of course, but one I stand by and am capable of defending, if necessary.
Good day.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jun 27, 2011 12:30:17 GMT -5
Hmm, okay, this is a question I'm willing to answer. Where did all the liberals go? Well, I certainly cannot speak for all liberals, but I can speak for myself, and I doubt I am a statistical anomaly. I really don't like being here very much. I drop in perhaps once or twice for a few days and then vanish again for weeks or even months without coming back. To wit, I do not even lurk here when I'm not posting. The reason is quite simple. I find the ugly, vitriolic, hyperbolic, nastiness of many conservatives here simply too much to bear. Life is too short to wade through the muck, and as many have pointed out again and again: no minds will be changed. Where did all the liberals go? You (collectively) have made the atmosphere thoroughly unpleasant for liberals, and any question asked is simply a prelude to an interrogation no doubt laced with condescension, derision, and raw hatred. This is why I choose not to hang my hat here, and while there are some good posters on both sides of the political divide, the constant contempt shown for anything even remotely liberal - and how liberals are blamed for everything imaginable (and unimaginable) - does not foster a community where most sane liberals would wish to spend any time. This is just one person's opinion, of course, but one I stand by and am capable of defending, if necessary. Good day. Interesting
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 27, 2011 12:46:25 GMT -5
#67 etc. Canada is $8-$11 dollars, depending on the provice- so are you just lying? Basically, Pubs just discriminate againt the poor, then BS about why people who live in war zones don't do well in school. Every other modern country does it- snap out of it...
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jun 27, 2011 12:48:22 GMT -5
#67 etc. Canada is $8-$11 dollars, depending on the provice- so are you just lying? Basically, Pubs just discriminate againt the poor, then BS about why people who live in war zones don't do well in school. Every other modern country does it- snap out of it... Does what?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 27, 2011 12:57:37 GMT -5
OK, Japan is weird, but there are lots of asterisks, VERY STRONG unions, etc etc.... "Prefectural minimum wages range from ¥642 (€5.52) to ¥821 (€7.06) per hour for all workers.[41] Industrial minimum wages applies for certain industries and usually set higher than the prefectural minimum.[41] If prefectural and industrial minimum wages differ, higher of two will apply.[9] Cost for commuting, extra pays (such as working on holidays, at night, overtime, etc.) and temporary pays (bonus, tips, etc.) must be paid exclusively and cannot be used to calculate towards minimum wage." the hell with Japan BTW, THEIR debt is 270% of GDP, ours less than 100%
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 27, 2011 13:05:20 GMT -5
Update: In Japan, minimum wage depends on the industry and the region. Industrial minimum wages apply for certain industries and usually set higher than the regional minimum.[28] If regional and industrial minimum wages differ, higher of two will apply.[29] As of 2010, regional minimum wages range from ¥642 (~US$7.75) to ¥821 (~US$9.90) per hour for all workers.[28] Cost of commuting, extra pays (such as working on holidays, at night, overtime, etc.) and temporary pays (bonus, tips, etc.) must be paid exclusively and cannot be used to calculate towards minimum wage. Regional minimum hourly wages are set by the Minister of Labour or the Chief of the Prefectural Labour Standards Office. Recommendations are made by the Minimum Wage Council.[30] And Aus. is $15 and NZ $13, so we are officially pathetic $%&^*(#s ;D
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Jun 27, 2011 13:09:14 GMT -5
The question is, "Why do they have the worst of EVERYTHING!"? Is it because their employers don't pay them enough? Or because the "rich" took their wealth away? Why don't they have good jobs? Might it have something to do with their lack of effort? Is it really society's job to provide for each according to his needs and demand from each according to their ability [and effort, ambition, perseverance, etc.]? There is a cause and effect here. People have the worst because the do the worst ~ and, rewarding people for failure only encourages more failure ~ rewarding the worst results in more of the worst. Success is not achieved by taking away from those who succeed and rewarding those who fail. Individual initiative is a virtue which should be encouraged, not discouraged and lack of initiative is a vice which should not be encouraged.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 27, 2011 13:09:16 GMT -5
#67 etc. Canada is $8-$11 dollars, depending on the provice- so are you just lying? Basically, Pubs just discriminate againt the poor, then BS about why people who live in war zones don't do well in school. Every other modern country does it- snap out of it... Nope not a lie, at the bottom end you get 8$ per hour in Canada. In the United States we have a Minimum Wage from $5.15 Wy up to $8.67 in Washington State. Depending on where you live in Canada you may be in a higher range, just as if you live in the US you may have Higher range of wages. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 27, 2011 13:09:21 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
Double post
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Jun 27, 2011 13:09:31 GMT -5
The question is, "Why do they have the worst of EVERYTHING!"? Is it because their employers don't pay them enough? Or because the "rich" took their wealth away? Why don't they have good jobs? Might it have something to do with their lack of effort? Is it really society's job to provide for each according to his needs and demand from each according to his ability [and effort, ambition, perseverance, etc.]? There is a cause and effect here. People have the worst because the do the worst ~ and, rewarding people for failure only encourages more failure ~ rewarding the worst results in more of the worst. Success is not achieved by taking away from those who succeed and rewarding those who fail. Individual initiative is a virtue which should be encouraged, not discouraged and lack of initiative is a vice which should not be encouraged, but discouraged.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 27, 2011 13:28:54 GMT -5
#67 etc. Canada is $8-$11 dollars, depending on the provice- so are you just lying? Basically, Pubs just discriminate againt the poor, then BS about why people who live in war zones don't do well in school. Every other modern country does it- snap out of it... It takes a real special kind of blindness to blame the inner city war zones on conservative policy. I mean, I seriously don't know how else to address this? The messes of the inner city and school systems like the vaunted "Chicago Public School" system is the glittering jewel of liberal achievement. It's the most glaring example of the failure of the far left we've got. It's what conservatives are fighting against- so the whole country from our energy production, to our financial sector, to our healthcare doesn't fall under the perview of the same people that destroyed education in this country: the far left. I really don't know what kind of information bubble you live in that you could so misperceive what's happening in this country that you actually think the people trying to fix the problem are the problem, and the people that caused these problems are somehow being persecuted and discriminated against as they try to help the poor. Nobody has done worse by poor and minorities than the liberals.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 27, 2011 14:22:57 GMT -5
Not true. This story clearly shows that the worst school districts were some of the school districts that spend the MOST. It's not lack of money-- which would in general explain everything else the poor have such as why they don't have as nice or as safe a car-- or even if they have a car at all. In this example, places like Chicago Public Schools (CPS) spend way more than districts that run circles around them.
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