cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 19, 2011 18:05:03 GMT -5
My friend, you have to deal with the fact that USA doesn't have direct democracy, and the will of the elected representatives IS the will of the people. 1. I'm not your friend, most of the time I can barley stand to read the tripe you write. 2. I understand that it is not a direct democracy, what you seem to not realize is that politics are cyclical running in cycles, just because you control everything this year doesn't mean the will of the people doesn't change the following year, just look at the change in congressional make up 1 year after the passage of Obamacare.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 18:07:38 GMT -5
Speaking of polls, I found that while no one can ask questions on the CoC board, it IS possible to start a poll. So I started a poll asking if starting a poll on the CoC board is OK. It didn't go well and got deleted.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 18:11:20 GMT -5
My friend, you have to deal with the fact that USA doesn't have direct democracy, and the will of the elected representatives IS the will of the people. 1. I'm not your friend, most of the time I can barley stand to read the tripe you write. 2. I understand that it is not a direct democracy, what you seem to not realize is that politics are cyclical running in cycles, just because you control everything this year doesn't mean the will of the people doesn't change the following year, just look at the change in congressional make up 1 year after the passage of Obamacare. I may not be your friend, but everyone, including you, is my friend. I am like Jesus in this respect. I hate the brainwashing, not the brainwashed. As for the rest, so they said after Medicare was passed. Entitlement programs never get overturned. The Republicans should try though.
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cme1201
Junior Associate
Tennis Elbow, Jock Itch, and Athletes Foot, every man has a sports life!
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 19, 2011 18:21:50 GMT -5
I am like Jesus in this respect
You bash religion and those who believe then in turn try and make yourself look like their savior, very nice, great example of acceptance you are.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 18:32:56 GMT -5
I am like Jesus in this respectYou bash religion and those who believe then in turn try and make yourself look like their savior, very nice, great example of acceptance you are. Like I said, I hate the sin but love the sinner.
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cme1201
Junior Associate
Tennis Elbow, Jock Itch, and Athletes Foot, every man has a sports life!
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 19, 2011 20:08:25 GMT -5
I am like Jesus in this respectYou bash religion and those who believe then in turn try and make yourself look like their savior, very nice, great example of acceptance you are. Like I said, I hate the sin but love the sinner. Which exact sin do you hate, I mean I read what you say to mean you hate the sin as in THE sin (one), which one is it, and why do you HATE it, what did that one little sin ever do to you, like maybe it only wanted to be your friend. cuddle up on a dark night, just you know be, and your all like get away little sin I hate you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 20:48:31 GMT -5
I respect Jesus and he would scorch the ears of many of the alleged "Christians." Don't forget he had a lot to say about the Pharisees of his day. I could just imagine Christ's reaction to the "Christwire" thing on the other thread. Talk about taking the lord's name in vain... I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:30:11 GMT -5
I respect Jesus and he would scorch the ears of many of the alleged "Christians." Don't forget he had a lot to say about the Pharisees of his day. I could just imagine Christ's reaction to the "Christwire" thing on the other thread. Talk about taking the lord's name in vain... That's a satire board though.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:30:43 GMT -5
Like I said, I hate the sin but love the sinner. Which exact sin do you hate, I mean I read what you say to mean you hate the sin as in THE sin (one), which one is it, and why do you HATE it, what did that one little sin ever do to you, like maybe it only wanted to be your friend. cuddle up on a dark night, just you know be, and your all like get away little sin I hate you. Calm down dude!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 19, 2011 22:30:16 GMT -5
That was... unexpected. But... OK. I prefer Canada's social security too--but I'm biased on the issue. I support public healthcare because it's more efficient. Doctors don't have to fight with insurance companies to get paid. Employers don't have to waste time and resources on insurance plans. Citizens don't have to pick jobs based on benefits, or pay hefty risk premiums. The administration costs amount to between 1-2% of the total cost of care, which is chicken feed compared to the profit margin for US insurance companies. All these factors combine into a system that, although expensive, still yields good value for the dollar. That said, a lot of the SS programs that work extremely well in Canada have proven to work extremely poorly in the US because of the sheer difference in size. Canada's programs can become a bureaucratic nightmare at times. Multiply that times ten to deal with the disparity in size between our nations, and the US could end up with an unholy mess. Republicans aren't wrong to point at the USPS, Amtrak, Fannie/Freddie, and any number of other plodding, hopelessly bankrupt federal institutions that have failed because they're too freakin' big. Hence, it doesn't automatically follow that because public healthcare works well in Canada it will also work well in the US. And did I mention that it's bloody expensive? As for systems of government, there are advantages to both. The British system is definitely simpler. You also have to consider that Canadians are much more "represented" than our US counterparts. Here we have one representative per 100,000 people or thereabouts. In the US, it's closer to one per 700,000. Virgil, can you fill us in on the actual realities of the Canadian Health Systems..I have heard horror stories on availability of and the waiting for..thinking cat scans as a example..other services like that, procedures, long wait time..even long wait time to get Doctor Appointments. Any truth or blown out of proportion. I had heard years ago, I lived there , in vicinity, Houston had more cat scanes then the whole of Canada for example and the wait for one in Canada was very, very long..
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 19, 2011 22:38:57 GMT -5
"1. I'm not your friend, most of the time I can barley stand to read the tripe you write." mmm, just thinking, new moderator,[Fine by me by the way] interesting thinking though, but still, possible, just possible a better way to put ones thoughts across, just a observation on my part by the way, I know, "Free speech " and all that..but still..mmmmm
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 20, 2011 0:38:15 GMT -5
A real mixed bag, Dezi. Firstly, understand that if the average Canadian senior had to wait six minutes to get a CT scan, they'd still howl to the heavens about the injustice of it. Having said that, tests that take hours in the US can take weeks in Canada (the difference being many thousands of dollars in cost, mind you). To a person who's incapacitated or in a lot of pain, 'weeks' is a bitter pill to swallow. On the plus side, many common conditions will "take care of themselves" during the wait. Kidney stones, myalgia, pinched nerves, eye twitches, all have a good likelihood of going away if you leave them long enough. Hence, the longer wait is a bit of a "suck it up, princess" factor that reduces the overall cost of healthcare. Regarding emergency care: Personally, I've been in the ER four times and received immediate care in all four. But supposedly there are certain cities (Vancouver, mainly) where people have died in the ER waiting room. This also has a lot to do with Vancouver being Vancouver. Elective surgeries like hip replacements and cataract surgery, etc., are getting to be cheap enough that much of it is being outsourced to private clinics. Most (not all) Canadians are comfortable with the existence of private clinics for elective surgery as long as funding for the public system isn't affected. Canadians who are truly desperate for care always have the option to go down to the US for next-day treatment. If they're willing to absorb a $10,000 or $100,000 bill, they do so. I don't know anyone in this boat, but I know it happens on occasion. Because there's always debate about whether healthcare needs more or less funding, the political parties who want to increase the funding make sure that any prominent Canadian politician, etc. going to the US for faster or "better" healthcare is well exposed to the media. "Look at Joe Blow going to the US for surgery! Mr. Prime Minister, your underfunding of public healthcare is killing Canadians. More funding for public healthcare!" Switch over to another station and you get, "Joe Blow from Canada is going to the US for healthcare. Obviously their system is better. We need more private clinics! Less funding for public healthcare!" Just a bit ironic. The reality is that the Canadian middle-upper and upper classes go from "world class care" to "acceptable care", unless they're willing to shell out. The lower and lower-middle classes go from "no care" to "acceptable care". But many proponents of public healthcare (myself included) argue that some of the standard of living losses incurred by the upper classes are effectively "made up" by the fact that a healthier society is a safer society. People don't have to resort to criminal activity if they're gravely injured, contract a chronic disease, suffer mental illness, etc. Finally, I'll stress again that healthcare in Canada is 45% of our tax burden and rising. That's in a nation that isn't exactly tax-friendly to begin with. Public healthcare is expensive. There are a lot of old and sick people, and if you're making $100 K or more here, you're expected to cough up 50% of your gross income to keep the wheels turning.
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Post by mtntigger on Jun 20, 2011 5:19:52 GMT -5
Holy sh_ _! That coupled with how expensive your food is. How do you do it? Do Canadians earn more (in comparable locations)? Thanks for being able to tell both sides, Virgil.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 20, 2011 5:33:34 GMT -5
I think we better watchit. I think someone has been reading our posts and asking people to determine what we believe about things in the world. Here are some of the questions and the way they were answered:
What was the nationality of the majority of hijackers of 9/11 and of bin Laden? Saudi Arabia 81% Afghanistan 8% Pakistan 8% Iraq 3%
Total Voters: 5,963 ==================================================
Did the United States government order the attacks on the U.S. on September 11, 2001?
Yes 66% No 34%
Total Voters: 6,664 ===============================================================
Should George W Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld be tried for war crimes?
Yes 82% No 18%
Total Voters: 6,749 =============================================================
Did HAARP cause the Japan and Haiti earthquakes?
Yes both 62% Neither 32% Only the Japan earthquake 4% Only the Haiti earthquake 2%
Total Voters: 5,269 ============================================================
Is the UN guilty of crimes against peace and crimes against humanity for authorizing NATO forces to attack Libya.
Yes 68% No 32%
Total Voters: 5,371 ==================================================================
Should US, French, UK and Canadian heads of state be indicted for crimes against humanity and war crimes in Libya?
Yes 55% No 33% Only Obama and Sarkozy 12%
Total Voters: 5,225 ===================================================================
Was Stephen Harper complicit in the torture of Afghan detainees?
Yes 74% No 26%
Total Voters: 4,063
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 6:19:55 GMT -5
Why weren't accountants included in the poll?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2011 9:26:10 GMT -5
Why weren't accountants included in the poll? What do accountants have to do with intellectualism? In fact, what do most of the people who are trained to be teachers, lawyers, etc have to do with it? Intellectualism denotes the use and development of the intellect, the practice of being an intellectual,[1] and of holding intellectual pursuits in great regard.[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualism
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 20, 2011 9:40:23 GMT -5
Why weren't accountants included in the poll? What do accountants have to do with intellectualism? In fact, what do most of the people who are trained to be teachers, lawyers, etc have to do with it? Intellectualism denotes the use and development of the intellect, the practice of being an intellectual,[1] and of holding intellectual pursuits in great regard.[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualism ...excuse me, but this just begs for a wisecrack made against the intellectual integrity of using Wikipedia...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 9:44:06 GMT -5
Why weren't accountants included in the poll? What do accountants have to do with intellectualism? I Hey. I put numbers on a piece of paper. (Well I don't actually put them on a piece of paper, but I tell a computer where to put numbers on a piece of paper.) You think just any un-intellectual schmo can do that?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2011 9:48:02 GMT -5
What do accountants have to do with intellectualism? In fact, what do most of the people who are trained to be teachers, lawyers, etc have to do with it? Intellectualism denotes the use and development of the intellect, the practice of being an intellectual,[1] and of holding intellectual pursuits in great regard.[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualism ...excuse me, but this just begs for a wisecrack made against the intellectual integrity of using Wikipedia... ;D
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hello fromWarsaw
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Hiya! Wake UP!!
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 20, 2011 10:32:18 GMT -5
Education has gotten so expensive in the USA that the liberal arts (the classical DISCIPLINES) are no longer taught to our business leaders (marketing and accounting)- good bye ethics, hello bottom line only. Not to mention the inattention to history and science that gives us voters so open to being... Wiki is pure genius compared to popular culture crappe. ;D
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 20, 2011 10:44:33 GMT -5
Ms. times, your 'strictly limiting' is nowhere to be found in your actual comments. You made an unabridged comparison between American anti-intellectualism and the killing fields of Cambodia. The full text of the post that I took exception to is quoted in reply #28 of this thread. When I started the thread, I'd expected you to admit that your analogy was hyperbolic and overreaching, and to clarify your position. In #180 you seem to have finally, finally done so. Paragraph 2 would be better stated "When I used the analogy with Pol Pot, I intended that the comparison be strictly limited it to the shared belief that...". But I don't suppose you and I will agree on whether these 'strict limitations' actually existed or could in any way be inferred, hence reply #180 is good enough for me. Regarding Hofstader (whose name is spelled 'Hofstadter', BTW): I plainly stated I had not read his work. The number of American historians with an impressive publication record is as long as Archie's list of reasons why he hates Philly. I'd wager you've read only a tiny fraction of their work and I certainly won't begrudge that of you. A defense predicated on "not having read publication X by author Y" is ridiculous. You haven't rebutted my contentions about the immensity (in scope and ramifications) and sparsity (in number) of issues that make Americans "anti-intellectual". If you're arguing that you can't explain your beliefs, but Hofstadter thinks you're right so go talk to him, then so be it. Perhaps I will. Literature by avid Marxists (Hofstadter's words, not mine) doesn't normally rank high on my reading list, but you've piqued my interest. I suspect Mr. Hofstadter would look at your unqualified reply #28 and choke a little.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 20, 2011 11:37:31 GMT -5
What do accountants have to do with intellectualism? In fact, what do most of the people who are trained to be teachers, lawyers, etc have to do with it? Intellectualism denotes the use and development of the intellect, the practice of being an intellectual,[1] and of holding intellectual pursuits in great regard.[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualism ...excuse me, but this just begs for a wisecrack made against the intellectual integrity of using Wikipedia... Hey, such a wise crack..I LOVE my Wikipedia fella.. ------------------------------------ PS: Virgil, thanks for the detailed response on my question on Canada's health system, enlightening..45% of GNP..wow..think that was one of the reasons for the Obama Care..future costs were going and still may eat up so much of our revenues..so far for me personally I'll take my program but definitly for the lower and lower middle, Canada is taking better care of a far as adequate managed care..however, kidney stones..to wait for help...sorry, had em, think child birth not as bad and to wait weeks...you got to be kidding..
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 20, 2011 13:52:23 GMT -5
It's 45% of our tax burden, Dezi. There's a big difference. By that, I mean that for every $1 a Canadian pays in combined tax to the federal and provincial governments, 45 cents is used to support healthcare. That was a bad example. Kidney stones might be one of those things they fast track. I mentioned kidney stones because I did have an experience with a stone in my salivary duct. It can get moderately painful and makes eating difficult. I got bounced from GP to hospital to expert to expert to hospital, with a few days on each bounce. By the time I got to the last expert, the stone had disintegrated and I was fine. But not many people know what salivary duct stones are. If your kidney stones were causing you anything more than moderate discomfort, you'd get expedited treatment. The Canadian system is usually pretty good (usually, not always) at prioritizing.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Jun 20, 2011 14:43:35 GMT -5
I chose none of the above...however it has been suggested as a way to stimulate the economy that we try a concept in our trade agreements that for every automobile we import, the exporting country must accept an attorny in exchange.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 20, 2011 15:11:17 GMT -5
It's 45% of our tax burden, Dezi. There's a big difference. By that, I mean that for every $1 a Canadian pays in combined tax to the federal and provincial governments, 45 cents is used to support healthcare. That was a bad example. Kidney stones might be one of those things they fast track. I mentioned kidney stones because I did have an experience with a stone in my salivary duct. It can get moderately painful and makes eating difficult. I got bounced from GP to hospital to expert to expert to hospital, with a few days on each bounce. By the time I got to the last expert, the stone had disintegrated and I was fine. But not many people know what salivary duct stones are. If your kidney stones were causing you anything more than moderate discomfort, you'd get expedited treatment. The Canadian system is usually pretty good (usually, not always) at prioritizing. I got caught so bad, doubled , made it to the lawn after calling 911...ambulance came, couldn't drive to ER, about a block away.. had a chopper ride once, there I was in shock so not as bad,,it was, stones, unbeleivable painful....so had to make my objection..I meant tha .45 out of a $, not the GNP, sorry, but that is just so high... I have no idea what is going to be the results of medical expenses, especially as we live longer, and seniors increase in proportion to the population...
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 20, 2011 19:42:16 GMT -5
They're likely not going to increase as a proportion of the population. They will increase, but so will the age ranges of all other age brackets and will more than cancel out the aging of the boomers. That's not to say that we need to figure out a way to slow costs...delaying and denying costs will be a perfect way to do it. So, maybe I am for UHC. Ah, who are we kidding, politicians in their normal reactionary way, are going to slowly dick the seniors over as they are no longer the largest voting block in America. www.census.gov/population/www/projections/analytical-document09.pdfPage 11 for 50 year population projections But are increasing medical expenses always a bad thing? How much of the increase is discretionary increases in medical care as Americans have more disposable income than other countries? That is the evolution of a society that gets to decide how to spend its own money. I don't believe the correct answer to that is to decrease the total disposable income of the population.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 20, 2011 20:10:12 GMT -5
My condition must have developed over the many years I've denounced engineered dependence or professed skepticism for the conclusions of AGW climate science, Ms. Times. But course I get to enjoy the delightful, relieved smiles on people's faces when they discover I'm one of few such people who doesn't also want to brutally murder all teachers and lawyers.
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