Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 13:48:01 GMT -5
Okay, before responding to new messages - collective deep breath...
I finally got in touch with DF and he called up the union and the IRS. The latter, when I read the document carefully, is for outstanding 2008 taxes. Which makes sense because I thought that DF had done his taxes for this year. Apparently they don't contact you for repayment until years after the fact. Still frustrating, but it is what it is.
So while we do in fact owe the money, we don't have to pay it all right this second. I figure I'll pay $500 this month and the rest next month. I should be able to fit that into the budget. With a shoehorn, but I'll be able to do it.
As for the dues, he apparently was sent that letter in error. He's current as of March and the dues are about $50 per month. So we don't owe back dues after all.
It doesn't address the larger issues in play here but it helps a LOT. Oh, and I just paid the wedding insurance and my car insurance isn't due until NEXT month. Yay.
I updated the OP so now it doesn't make sense anymore - but the income is still the same, outgo just dropped to $7,200. That should be doable. Difference goes directly into savings.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 13:57:25 GMT -5
shanendoah, that's a good idea. I'm kind of busy at work today so I'll have to do that tomorrow when I put together my May numbers (I always do this at the end of the month so I can check on things and see where I'm at with others). But I will do that and either update this post or start a new one.
Now that I'm thinking about it, between the cat next month (and the extra deposit for that), the ticket, the insurance cost which I'm really just putting off, and the membership fee I'll probably wind up needing that extra $1,000. Might as well not transfer it to savings yet. If I can use it to get us fully back on track in July, we can hit the ground running again in August when - thankfully - there are no major expenses due and we'll be done placing deposits for awhile.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 31, 2011 14:03:19 GMT -5
...:::"One thing I wish I had done was ensure that every contract we signed had an act of God clause in it which would have covered us.":::...
Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying some places will give you your deposit back if the wedding is canceled because of an "act of God"? I've never heard of that anywhere else. What possible advantage is that for the venue?
I don't have much to add here. Bad months happen. But it does seem that this month is bad due to some "surprises". I agree with giving your DF the chance to examine things and give you advance warning if anything else is on the horizon.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 14:55:13 GMT -5
I don't have much to add here. Bad months happen. But it does seem that this month is bad due to some "surprises". I agree with giving your DF the chance to examine things and give you advance warning if anything else is on the horizon.
Regarding the taxes, he thinks it's a mistake. Apparently he's never owed taxes and they never got his return (even though H&R Block filed it...) so we'll see. I'll wait to pay anything until I find out for sure.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 15:48:01 GMT -5
Damn, Iggy, 6,000+ posts? I thought I was prolific...
Definitely doing a revised spreadsheet tomorrow with EVERY last penny that I know about in the next six months accounted and planned for in a sensible way. I'll update this thread when I have that info in case anyone wants to slog through it.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on May 31, 2011 15:56:40 GMT -5
...:::"One thing I wish I had done was ensure that every contract we signed had an act of God clause in it which would have covered us.":::...
Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying some places will give you your deposit back if the wedding is canceled because of an "act of God"? I've never heard of that anywhere else. What possible advantage is that for the venue?
Yes, the snow storm that prevented the wedding from continuing was considered an act of God. As such, we received some deposits back, but not all. Fortunately, the main venue had this clause in the contract, so we got back the majority of our money. We didn't have this with the photographer and flowers.
Now that I ask for this with every contract I sign, all businesses have been very amicable to include it and it seems very standard to them.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 31, 2011 16:07:13 GMT -5
If you have the courage to do that, I'll slog through the mess that appears on the screen. The "insert table" function leaves something to be desired. Horrible things happen to the most tediously lined-up data.
And I think you should do it anyways. At least I think you should do the exercise. I've thought that for at least a week now.
Ya see, most humans aren't particularly good at adding or subtracting more than three numbers at a time. We all like to pretend that we have the math chops to do it, but we really aren't all that good at doing it in our heads.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 17:01:50 GMT -5
And I think you should do it anyways. At least I think you should do the exercise. I've thought that for at least a week now.
About me specifically, or in general?
I'll definitely do it, and I'll see what I can do to make the numbers easy to read. I'm curious to see how well "budget in my head" matches with "budget in reality." Probably not that well, but heck - if I were ever going to make an indulgent purchase in my life, it ought to relate to my wedding. I'll only have one, after all.
Thanks, Iggy. I actually tried my hand at a yearly budget in January, but it's rapidly falling apart since it was just my money back then. I don't know why I figured that two incomes would be basically as simple and easy to manage as one. Chalk it up to yet another learning experience.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 17:09:28 GMT -5
And other things
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 31, 2011 17:20:34 GMT -5
Hugs back, of course!
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 31, 2011 20:35:30 GMT -5
$250 for engagement photos? C'mon! There's gotta be an old Princess Leia/Jabba the Hutt Halloween costume photo out there! Much cooler, too.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 9:47:19 GMT -5
No doubt! But we're doing a professional shoot at our reception location with the photographer who will be photographing the reception. It's as much a chance to make sure I am happy with her work before we take the big plunge as anything else. Considering how important the photos are to me, I consider this a small investment ;D Of course, with only four months to go I'm not precisely sure what I'll do if I'm not happy with her...
Four-month budget to come sometime this morning.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 1, 2011 9:52:19 GMT -5
Not budget, Firebird - CASH FLOW
THe difference: budget is will you have enough money overall. Cash flow is will you have enough money at the time the bill is due. I KNOW you have enough money in your budget, but you haven't been paying attention to your cash flow...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 11:11:25 GMT -5
All right, I know I promised but this is going to have to wait until tomorrow or next week, partially because I'm out of pre-work time and partially because putting all of this into a spreadsheet is really starting to upset me.
It's pretty obvious that the best thing we could do for our cash flow right now is put off getting the cat until after the wedding. DF and I discussed this last night, and he's willing to do it but the look on his face broke my heart. He's been looking forward to getting a cat forever and I will feel horrible if we put it off just so that we can have a dream wedding. I mean, it's a dream wedding for BOTH of us, not just me, but still...
I don't know what to do.
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wodehouse
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Post by wodehouse on Jun 1, 2011 11:17:38 GMT -5
FB, awww, what a big baby he is! but getting a cat is like getting married or having kids, you do it with the right person, not when the $$ are aligned. Just hang out at the animal shelters and when the right cat comes along, so be it.
Really, if there's a current crunch in cash flow, just bite the bullet and cut back on savings and/or you'll have to let credit card payments roll over for several months (it'll cost you some interest, but BFD)...I don't say this casually since I haven't paid credit card interest since around...uh, 1984? But in your situation it wouldn't bother me a bit. Just the cost of your current transitions.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jun 1, 2011 11:23:15 GMT -5
Firebird, I might get flamed. But get the cat. Is it a lot of money? Yes. But so were ours (both from responsible breeders). When our one boxer died unexpectedly, we were heartbroken and so was our other boxer. So we searched and got our other boy a few months later. That was an unplanned $1000 expense but it was totally worth it; it helped our mental health with the sadness we felt over the loss of our boy, it helped ease the loneliness our other dog felt, and it will probably help you with your stress over the wedding.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 1, 2011 11:45:15 GMT -5
Firebird, sweetheart, get the cat. I know you're not an animal person, so you don't quite understand. DF currently feels guilty about the financial mess because some of it is his fault (though some also appears to have mistakes, but it still added stress to you in his name), so he's trying to think like the financially responsible person he wants to be for you, which means agreeing to delay getting his kitten. The kitten adds a bit of financial stress, but it will relieve a ton of emotional stress for DF (and probably for you too). You have no idea how soothing it is to sit with warm pile of purring curled up in your lap. Also, the kitten can fill in for entertainment expenses that you will be cutting back on. Laser pointers and string and you will have hours of entertainment for you and exercise for kitten.
Let some of it ride on the credit card. You can have your dream wedding. You'll spend a little bit in interest, but you're making plans based on the amount of money you'll have at the time of the wedding, not when that money is actually due (hence the difference between budget and cash flow). So put some of it on the credit card and let it sit until you do have the money. I know you, this won't become a habit. You're not in danger of falling to mountains of consumer debt due to the wedding. So take some stress of yourself, and take some stress off of DF. Get the kitten. Carry a balance for 4 months. You'll both be happier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 11:49:51 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have to disagree, you do not go into debt for a want and getting the kitten is a want. Yes, the first time you have to put off a want is hard but it will get easier and this will be a lesson to FB's DF. And I am an animal person, actually I want a dog so bad I can't go into a pet store or shelter but this is a want and paying off the debt comes before a want.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 12:02:33 GMT -5
FB, awww, what a big baby he is! but getting a cat is like getting married or having kids, you do it with the right person, not when the $$ are aligned. Just hang out at the animal shelters and when the right cat comes along, so be it.
Baby? DF? No way. Not sure where you're getting that at all. He's completely willing to put off getting the cat, he's just sad about it - which makes perfect sense. After all, he's been waiting over a year for this, so it's not like we're rushing into anything. And I want the cat too, I just don't mind waiting even longer for it. He'll definitely wait if we decide it's the right thing, but it's going to hurt him more than me and I don't think that's fair.
We're not getting a shelter cat, we're getting a particular breed from a breeder in the area. It will cost $1,000 plus $500 for an additional deposit on our apartment (plus our rent goes up $15/month). Not including all the stuff we have to buy for it.
Although I agree with you guys that the kitty will relieve a lot of our stress. And the thought of putting it off depresses me too, so I can just imagine how it makes DF feel.
Firebird, sweetheart, get the cat. I know you're not an animal person, so you don't quite understand. DF currently feels guilty about the financial mess because some of it is his fault (though some also appears to have mistakes, but it still added stress to you in his name), so he's trying to think like the financially responsible person he wants to be for you, which means agreeing to delay getting his kitten.
Yeah, I know he does which makes me feel awful because this is NOT just his fault. If I hadn't paid for that !#@$ certification last month (which I shouldn't have done ANYWAY because the thought of spending the next four months studying in the midst of all this other shit makes me want to crawl under a rock) we wouldn't be in this position right now and I would change that if I could, but I can't.
Just to clarify, we will NOT be carrying a balance on my credit card for four months. That's not the issue. The card is getting paid off this month. The issue is how much we'll be able to save. Without the cat we'd save an extra $2k between now and the wedding, that's all. So it's not an issue of going into debt, if that makes a difference to anyone. I'm not going to get us into credit card debt - not for the wedding or for the cat.
For emphasis: The worst case scenario here is that we use my parents' entire wedding gift to pay off the wedding. Which would suck since we were hoping to use some of it for the honeymoon or to rebuild our EF but it's hardly the end of the world. The worst case scenario does not involve us going into debt.
It just hurts because I thought I had a better handle on all this.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 1, 2011 12:05:56 GMT -5
Gin: And a $15k wedding isn't a want? This isn't meant as an attack on FB or you. And in your case, where you are delaying making any puppy plans at all, I agree- you don't go into debt for the want. But your case is NOT FB's case.
They decided on getting the cat and budgeted the money for the deposit and the remainder of the payment BEFORE the engagement. They essentially have a contract with the breeder. Then they got engaged and started planning a $10k wedding. Then they decided that a $15k+ wedding would be fine. In this case, the kitten is the prior commitment, a contract that they entered in to months ago. (And while the breeder may be nice enough to let them delay delivery or apply their deposit to another litter, etc, he doesn't actually have to.) The wants in this case are all the wedding expenses- and again, its a cash flow problem, not a budget problem. The money WILL be there in 4 months when the wedding occurs, its just not there now when deposits are required.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 1, 2011 12:10:18 GMT -5
I kinda agree with both sides... on one hand, Firebird is responsible enough to get this squared away fairly soon if they do get the cat. On the other hand, this may be a good teaching moment for Firebird's DF.
Firebird, it's really for you to decide whether it will be better for your (and your DF's) emotional/mental health to not be able to save as much as you want to for a few months and go ahead and get the cat, or whether you think this will be a good teaching tool to show your DF the possible consequences of forgetting or overlooking things.
I know with my DH, I could talk til I was blue in the face about cash flow, what we could afford, where our finances stood, etc. - and it went in one ear and out the other - but the first time a situation like this posed itself ("we can afford X or we can afford Y, but not both) it was like the lightbulb finally went on.
If you think this might inspire him to be more proactive about finances in the future (I know you're planning to handle them, so not sure how important this is to you) it may be worth it to put off the kitten purchase for a few months. I'm sure you'll have enough on your plate anyway. But if it is going to cause you additional stress to NOT get the kitten... well, then go for it. I think it'll be OK either way.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 12:11:02 GMT -5
Maybe we can get the cat, but put off our honeymoon until next year (which would work out better with our paid time off anyhow). That seems like it would be a reasonable compromise - we both get something we really want (the wedding), and something that we both want, but that he wants more (the cat next month), and we have to put off something that we both want, but not as much as the other two things (the honeymoon).
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 1, 2011 12:14:48 GMT -5
Firebird, if you're getting the kitty from a particular breeder she may not have an appropriate kitten for you if you put it off. If you're on a waiting list, passing on the next avalible kitten can also kick you to the back of the list. Depending on how 'in demand' her kittens are and how many females she breeds a year, it can make for a LONG wait. I really hope that DF hasn't bonded with a particular kitten yet, because if that is the case you should MAKE SURE you get the kitten he's bonded to, whenever he/she's available to come home. Same deal if you want a kitten from a particular sire/queen, it might be a VERY long time before that particular combination is available again.
Do you have a plan for who will take care of kitty while you're gone on honeymoon? If you're gone a long time, it may be stressful for the kitten if you've only gotten it shortly before and it's not really settled into your home yet. If getting the kitten shortly after you get back would be an option, maybe you should wait. That way you can bond with the kitten without disappearing on him/her for 1-2 weeks
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 12:15:00 GMT -5
Firebird, it's really for you to decide whether it will be better for your (and your DF's) emotional/mental health to carry a CC balance for a few months and go ahead and get the cat, or whether you think this will be a good teaching tool to show your DF the possible consequences of forgetting or overlooking things.
You guys have a really, really good point about this being a learning experience for DF, but a couple of things about that:
1) This is not just his fault. If the only problem here was that tax bill, then sure. But I spent an equally large amount of money on something we didn't need only last month. It doesn't seem fair to "punish" him over a situation we BOTH caused.
2) I'm uncomfortable in general with the idea of punishing/teaching DF, especially about this. He's not the best with money - well, I always knew that about him. He's gotten "punished" by life over this PLENTY, and it has not caused him to change. So I feel like the best course at this point is for me to just take over. Me trying to instill "natural" consequences when the actual natural consequences did nothing to curb his cashflow issues is only going to cause resentment.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 1, 2011 12:18:18 GMT -5
Here's my straight up, non-emotional response:
FB made a committment to DF (when he was still DBF) to get the cat. And together, they entered in to a contract with a breeder. Their situation then changed with the engagement and the planning of the wedding. However, all the current financial issues are due to their own lack of planning (or perhaps better said too much focus on the big picture and not enough on the day to day). This is not a situation that could not be helped, nor does it constitute an emergency halt on spending. In that sense, the contract with the breeder takes legal and ethical priority over the other spending. Morally, FB's committment to DF also needs to be taken in to consideration. If she makes an agreement with him, and then decides later that it would be more convenient to push off that agreement, what does that say about the long term prospects of their marriage? That its all about what makes her comfortable? That her promises to him can be modified at any time she finds keeping them inconvenient?That their committments to each other and to other people can be ignored any time they forget to plan? In a tough love sense, not having money left over for a more expensive honeymoon, or not having their EF quite at the level that makes FB happy is a very small price to pay for keeping their committments and is perhaps a good lesson for them to learn about not just budgeting but monitoring their cash flow.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 12:20:34 GMT -5
(And while the breeder may be nice enough to let them delay delivery or apply their deposit to another litter, etc, he doesn't actually have to.)
Actually, it's in our contract that we can get the kitten whenever we feel like it. The breeder is a really nice guy and he understands that sometimes plans change. As long as you have a deposit down, he does his best to make a kitten available to you with every subsequent litter until you decide you want one.
I really hope that DF hasn't bonded with a particular kitten yet, because if that is the case you should MAKE SURE you get the kitten he's bonded to, whenever he/she's available to come home.
He hasn't. Actually, we haven't even seen the kittens yet, save for one picture I got about a week ago. According to our breeder, he has the color we're hoping for in both genders and no one who is ahead of us on the list cares much about the color, so we have a good chance of getting a blue boy, which is our first choice.
Good point about not waiting if we do get a chance to take home our first choice. His current litters are particularly large; he may not have such a wide selection available again anytime soon.
Do you have a plan for who will take care of kitty while you're gone on honeymoon? If you're gone a long time, it may be stressful for the kitten if you've only gotten it shortly before and it's not really settled into your home yet.
We'll only be gone three or four days for our wedding, and we arranged for the breeder to watch the kitten. He liked the idea. If we put off the honeymoon until early next year, my parents will be able to watch him or her.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 1, 2011 12:24:36 GMT -5
Morally, FB's committment to DF also needs to be taken in to consideration. If she makes an agreement with him, and then decides later that it would be more convenient to push off that agreement, what does that say about the long term prospects of their marriage? That its all about what makes her comfortable? That her promises to him can be modified at any time she finds keeping them inconvenient?That their committments to each other and to other people can be ignored any time they forget to plan?
Precisely. And thank you for saying it so clearly. There was something else bothering me about the idea of putting off the cat and I couldn't figure out what it was. This is it.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 1, 2011 12:27:10 GMT -5
[quote author=firebird board=finance thread=9073 post=365778 time=1306948834Do you have a plan for who will take care of kitty while you're gone on honeymoon? If you're gone a long time, it may be stressful for the kitten if you've only gotten it shortly before and it's not really settled into your home yet.
We'll only be gone three or four days for our wedding, and we arranged for the breeder to watch the kitten. He liked the idea. If we put off the honeymoon until early next year, my parents will be able to watch him or her. [/quote]
Sounds like a good plan
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 1, 2011 12:30:16 GMT -5
Firebird, we did a "mini-moon" stuffed between the wedding date and my finals/start of 2nd half of semester . We took our fishing boat to a B&B for a couple of nights. And then in 2005, we went to Maine for our "real" honeymoon. There are no rules for honeymoons. Do what works for you guys (and your budget.)
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 1, 2011 12:31:40 GMT -5
And thank you, FB for sticking up for DF. As everyone kept saying he needed to be taught a lesson, I kept thinking how more so than she? You've been very honest that some of this mess is his and some of it is yours, so I don't think he needs to be taught a lesson any more than you do. You're both learning from your mistakes (which is the way it should be).
side note: I keep meaning to ask, does he have copies of his taxes from H&R Block? Or does he at least know the office he had them done at in 2008? They should still have records from that time in case of audits.
back on topic: If you had just said to DF, we'll go to the shelter in June and look at cats, I would have no problem with the two of you putting this off (though my emotional reaction would still be to get the cat). But by going through a breeder, you've brought a third party in to the mix with whom the two of you made a legal agreement, and its important to keep to the terms of even your informal contracts. I DON'T think your marriage is doomed if you do put off the cat (though, I like the idea of a delayed honeymoon, if it means slightly less to the both of you), but it is important to start considering not just the financial impacts of your decisions but the emotional impacts on your partner for life and your relationship. A pattern of making promises and then putting them off is not healthy for a relationship.
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