The kid thread: Planning, pregnancy & parenting

[Pants]

Oct 2, 2018 10:50:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 2, 2018 10:17:08 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I just need to be like his mom & only talk about classical art or neutral/happy things. Or share cute pics of the kids. I am too "angry and hateful" and what I say isn't helpful to anyone anyway. At least, that's the lecture I got the other night.

Of course you're angry.  You're being told your thoughts and feelings don't matter.   That you have to suck it up and be sweet and accept the status quo so nobody's feelings get hurt.  

Fuck that. 

Based on the reading I've done on the subject, the term in conservative christian circles is "Keep sweet" - the expectation of women's behavior at all times, and especially publicly. 

[Sam_2.0]

Oct 2, 2018 11:19:45 GMT -5 Pants said:

Oct 2, 2018 10:50:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

Of course you're angry.  You're being told your thoughts and feelings don't matter.   That you have to suck it up and be sweet and accept the status quo so nobody's feelings get hurt.  

Fuck that. 

Based on the reading I've done on the subject, the term in conservative christian circles is "Keep sweet" - the expectation of women's behavior at all times, and especially publicly. 

Bingo.

His mother is a very sweet woman. You all would adore her to pieces if you met her. And she will never ever say anything publically that could be construed as hurtful to someone in some way.

He expects me to filter/censor myself like I did when we first met. He censors himself a LOT. He won't say things publically that could possibly cause someone to disagree because he wants to be friends with everyone. He's upset that I don't care what other people think. He's upset that I don't care what he thinks, because he interprets that as not caring about him. He also is suicidal ATM because of his anxiety - so that's another layer of stress I have going on.

He did ask me to stop cursing around the kids. Ill admit, the F word seems to be my new favorite adjective (again - growing up with any expression being judged because "the intent was to say a curse word, so you are still sinning! Euphemisms are still the desire to curse!"). Last night, J took the parmesan cheese container at dinner, opened it, and licked it. I yelled at him and DH got mad at me. I was also holding a screaming baby that I didn't know if we'd have to take to the ER because he tripped and face-planted into the wood stairs and bashed open his upper lip. And Aly was whining because she couldn't have the leftovers from Jaydon's birthday party cupcakes and she NEVER gets attention and why does J get all the attention on his own damn birthday! So yes, when J licked the cheese, I yelled "FUCK!" and DH glared at me disapprovingly.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 2, 2018 11:40:57 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Oct 2, 2018 11:19:45 GMT -5 Pants said:

Based on the reading I've done on the subject, the term in conservative christian circles is "Keep sweet" - the expectation of women's behavior at all times, and especially publicly. 

Bingo.

His mother is a very sweet woman. You all would adore her to pieces if you met her. And she will never ever say anything publically that could be construed as hurtful to someone in some way.

He expects me to filter/censor myself like I did when we first met. He censors himself a LOT. He won't say things publically that could possibly cause someone to disagree because he wants to be friends with everyone. He's upset that I don't care what other people think. He's upset that I don't care what he thinks, because he interprets that as not caring about him. He also is suicidal ATM because of his anxiety - so that's another layer of stress I have going on.

He did ask me to stop cursing around the kids. Ill admit, the F word seems to be my new favorite adjective (again - growing up with any expression being judged because "the intent was to say a curse word, so you are still sinning! Euphemisms are still the desire to curse!"). Last night, J took the parmesan cheese container at dinner, opened it, and licked it. I yelled at him and DH got mad at me. I was also holding a screaming baby that I didn't know if we'd have to take to the ER because he tripped and face-planted into the wood stairs and bashed open his upper lip. And Aly was whining because she couldn't have the leftovers from Jaydon's birthday party cupcakes and she NEVER gets attention and why does J get all the attention on his own damn birthday! So yes, when J licked the cheese, I yelled "FUCK!" and DH glared at me disapprovingly.

Did you punch him?

DH did that once and the look I gave him had him.cowering on the couch telling me how pretty I am. Yeah that's what I thought you said.

[swamp]

I'm surprised "fuck" is all you said.  

You're allowed to lose it in that situation.    It's normal.  In fact, it's not normal to not lose it when that shit is going on.  

[swamp]

Oct 2, 2018 11:19:45 GMT -5 Pants said:

Oct 2, 2018 10:50:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

Of course you're angry.  You're being told your thoughts and feelings don't matter.   That you have to suck it up and be sweet and accept the status quo so nobody's feelings get hurt.  

Fuck that. 

Based on the reading I've done on the subject, the term in conservative christian circles is "Keep sweet" - the expectation of women's behavior at all times, and especially publicly. 

In christian circles, I think the pressure is even greater, but general American culture wants women to pipe down and make everyone happy.   Don't make a scene was what I heard all the time growing up.  I've since realized that sometimes, I have to make a scene.  Or at least leave the scene.  

[azucena]

Oct 2, 2018 10:50:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 2, 2018 10:17:08 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I just need to be like his mom & only talk about classical art or neutral/happy things. Or share cute pics of the kids. I am too "angry and hateful" and what I say isn't helpful to anyone anyway. At least, that's the lecture I got the other night.

Of course you're angry.  You're being told your thoughts and feelings don't matter.   That you have to suck it up and be sweet and accept the status quo so nobody's feelings get hurt.  

Fuck that. 

and you're angry because you want a better world for those cute kids!

and, I've sent you an IM of my real name so we can be facebook friends please

[Sam_2.0]

In other news, my boss saw my recent news piece about the mats I've been making, he shared it with Corp Comm, and they published a story on me today. So now I am getting a ton of sweet emails from people all over the company I needed that.

[TheOtherMe]

Sam_2.0  


The picture of you crying made me shed tears with you.  I was on the verge of tears and the photo did it.  I needed to cry.

I'm sorry life is so tough.  

I do not know how any of you put up with what you do.  I don't think I could do it (which is probably why I never married or had children).

[Poptart]

Oct 1, 2018 8:51:39 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Sat down with DH last night and had it out. The good thing is, I think it was pretty productive. I feel a LOT better about things now and he says he does too. Let's hope so.

I was raised as a Jehovah's witness, and the one thing I've learned is that most marriages do not survive when one partner wakes up and realizes it's all bullshit. This isn't like being a Catholic and missing mass, when you are raised in these religions you are expected to live and behave a certain way.

Your husband is never going to change, he gives you what Mexicans call "atole con el dedo", a little of the sweet stuff to keep you where you are but in the end nothing substantial. And look, you are never going to win this battle because if he (1) is a true believer there's no way you'll win out over God and religion, and (2) if he's not a believer then you have to admit he is just a selfish asshole, who hides behind religion and "the way we were raised" to justify treating you like crap. Honestly, I'm a firm believer that he really doesn't believe this BS but he uses it as a way to keep you in line. If he was a firm believer he'd be busting his ass to support you and your kids, but he can't even be bothered to leave his crappy job in order to help lessen the burden on you.

You are too lovely a person to live like this, but you are an adult and if this is the way you want to live then that's up to you, but don't teach your daughter that this is okay. She sees this behavior and she's going to grow up thinking it's ok to be treated like trash by someone that's supposed to love her. 

[NastyWoman]

Oct 2, 2018 15:32:16 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Sam_2.0   


The picture of you crying made me shed tears with you.  I was on the verge of tears and the photo did it.  I needed to cry.

I'm sorry life is so tough.  

I do not know how any of you put up with what you do.  I don't think I could do it (which is probably why I never married or had children).

Don't sell yourself short. You are a strong woman TheOtherMe .  You may not have raised kids but you did move across country several times and build a life for yourself. Raising kids takes patience and hard work. Making your life on your own does too. Give yourself credit 

I am a big fan of Sam_2.0 as well but her H would never come anywhere near me if he expects women to be mellow and nice and kind and, above all, compliant

[Pants]

Oct 2, 2018 15:56:06 GMT -5 Poptart said:

Oct 1, 2018 8:51:39 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Sat down with DH last night and had it out. The good thing is, I think it was pretty productive. I feel a LOT better about things now and he says he does too. Let's hope so.

I was raised as a Jehovah's witness, and the one thing I've learned is that most marriages do not survive when one partner wakes up and realizes it's all bullshit. This isn't like being a Catholic and missing mass, when you are raised in these religions you are expected to live and behave a certain way.

Your husband is never going to change, he gives you what Mexicans call "atole con el dedo", a little of the sweet stuff to keep you where you are but in the end nothing substantial. And look, you are never going to win this battle because if he (1) is a true believer there's no way you'll win out over God and religion, and (2) if he's not a believer then you have to admit he is just a selfish asshole, who hides behind religion and "the way we were raised" to justify treating you like crap. Honestly, I'm a firm believer that he really doesn't believe this BS but he uses it as a way to keep you in line. If he was a firm believer he'd be busting his ass to support you and your kids, but he can't even be bothered to leave his crappy job in order to help lessen the burden on you.

You are too lovely a person to live like this, but you are an adult and if this is the way you want to live then that's up to you, but don't teach your daughter that this is okay. She sees this behavior and she's going to grow up thinking it's ok to be treated like trash by someone that's supposed to love her. 

*Sigh* you were doing so well there until the end where it turned into blaming Sam for how her husband acts in front of their children... 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

F*ck me.   How teh hell am I making more money yet I over drafted our account TWICE and it's only the second week of October?   I know I am not the only guilty party in this scenario but damn.   So all that stress and shit doesn't have us in any better position than we were, in fact we're in a WORSE position due to my lack of attention and diligence.

No my husband cannot do the budget, if you've read anything on these boards over the years you know why I am the one that has to be in charge of our finances.   It's something I have had to accept as part of the marriage.

[debthaven]

Sam, if your best friend or your sister were going through this, what would you advise her?

I see ZERO evidence that your husband is making any efforts. The counterpart of the wife "being sweet" is that the husband is the breadwinner. And THAT (as far as I know) is what gives the husband the "right" to tell his wife how to live/what to do/what to think/what to post on FB. It sucks, but at least your life is easier financially, if that's the family model you want to buy into.

You say your MIL is incredibly "sweet". My guess is that SHE is not the breadwinner in her nuclear family.

YOU are the breadwinner in yours, while raising your kids, doing charity work, etc etc etc. He's been TRYING to make a living for years, yet he has never succeeded. Is he trying to do anything else instead? Nope, not that I've seen (read).

Stupidity/Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Hugs to you my friend. You deserve SO MUCH BETTER, you are an extraordinary woman.

Would you want Aly to settle for what you're settling for?

[Poptart]

I'm not blaming her for his actions, if he's a jerk that's on him, but staying with him and allowing her daughter to grow up with that as an example is on her. 

[justme]

Because if Sam leaves suddenly he won't be the children's father anymore? Your logic is flawed.

[debthaven]

Because if Sam leaves suddenly he won't be the children's father anymore? Your logic is flawed.

I think Sam's DH is an overgrown kid, and that he will be relieved not to have to deal with their kids regularly. And although I don't think she realizes this, once it happens, Sam will be relieved too.

I'm not talking about their religion and all that, just Sam's daily routine. On some level it would be much easier for her to do what she needs to do WITHOUT him being there to make things difficult, rather than trying to do it WITH him there being so difficult.

It is VERY hard to be a "single mom", I can't deny that. But I think it's probably harder to try to co-parent with people who don't share your POV. Once they're out of the daily routine, on some level, it becomes easier, especially if you have your kids the majority of the time and YOU establish the habits, rules, etc.

I never could have imagined 25 years ago that I would think that being a single parent would be preferable to being in a bad marriage. But having divorced, and NOT by choice, in some cases, I really do.

I was very lucky and found my "keeper" DH a year later. He is a true partner and helped raise our kids.

My ex was VERY happy to leave that to somebody else. To his credit, he took 2 of our 3 kids out to lunch once a week, which is more contact than many dads have.

[Poptart]

Oct 2, 2018 16:26:27 GMT -5 justme said:

Because if Sam leaves suddenly he won't be the children's father anymore? Your logic is flawed.

No, but at least the kids wouldn't live in a home where they see one of their parents disrespecting the other, and it would at least remove them from a situation where they see their father treating their mom the way he does. What is she getting from him now? Not enough financial support, no help with the kids, not even a freaking hug, and that's bad but not allowing her to have a voice and opinions of her own? No, just no.

[Pants]

Oct 2, 2018 16:22:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

F*ck me.   How teh hell am I making more money yet I over drafted our account TWICE and it's only the second week of October?   I know I am not the only guilty party in this scenario but damn.   So all that stress and shit doesn't have us in any better position than we were, in fact we're in a WORSE position due to my lack of attention and diligence.

No my husband cannot do the budget, if you've read anything on these boards over the years you know why I am the one that has to be in charge of our finances.   It's something I have had to accept as part of the marriage.

I'm with you. I get it. It sucks.

Last month we went from paying $1300/month in care for B to $300/month. More or less. Somehow I managed to
overdraw our account this week even though there should definitely be extra $ there?!?!

[justme]

Oct 2, 2018 16:34:59 GMT -5 Poptart said:

Oct 2, 2018 16:26:27 GMT -5 justme said:

Because if Sam leaves suddenly he won't be the children's father anymore? Your logic is flawed.

No, but at least the kids wouldn't live in a home where they see one of their parents disrespecting the other, and it would at least remove them from a situation where they see their father treating their mom the way he does. What is she getting from him now? Not enough financial support, no help with the kids, not even a freaking hug, and that's bad but not allowing her to have a voice and opinions of her own? No, just no.

I'm not saying don't go. From all I've seen he's an asshole. But leaving won't lessen his influence and likely won't change the way he treats her unless he decides not to see the kids.

Whether she's stays or goes his asshole ways are on him, not her. If she decides to leave because it's best for her and what she deserves, great. She shouldn't be tasked with also making his asshole ways less of example she does enough already.

[TheOtherMe]

Oct 2, 2018 16:03:37 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Oct 2, 2018 15:32:16 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Sam_2.0   


The picture of you crying made me shed tears with you.  I was on the verge of tears and the photo did it.  I needed to cry.

I'm sorry life is so tough.  

I do not know how any of you put up with what you do.  I don't think I could do it (which is probably why I never married or had children).

Don't sell yourself short. You are a strong woman TheOtherMe .  You may not have raised kids but you did move across country several times and build a life for yourself. Raising kids takes patience and hard work. Making your life on your own does too. Give yourself credit 

I am a big fan of Sam_2.0 as well but her H would never come anywhere near me if he expects women to be mellow and nice and kind and, above all, compliant

Thank you.  I originally moved across the country to find myself and I did find myself and build a life in Colorado.  I am not sure I have built much of a life here but I'm trying.  

I did see the sexual assault counselor today.  I get 5 free visits and she scheduled 2 more.  It felt good to say it.  They keep basic statistics.  One being did you report it?  No, I didn't report it.  I was alone in Paris on the Seine River, crying and screaming.  All I wanted to do was get away from him and Paris and I did.  I don't speak French and could not have followed up on the charges.

[zibazinski]

Oct 2, 2018 17:22:19 GMT -5 justme said:

Oct 2, 2018 16:34:59 GMT -5 Poptart said:

No, but at least the kids wouldn't live in a home where they see one of their parents disrespecting the other, and it would at least remove them from a situation where they see their father treating their mom the way he does. What is she getting from him now? Not enough financial support, no help with the kids, not even a freaking hug, and that's bad but not allowing her to have a voice and opinions of her own? No, just no.

I'm not saying don't go. From all I've seen he's an asshole. But leaving won't lessen his influence and likely won't change the way he treats her unless he decides not to see the kids.

Whether she's stays or goes his asshole ways are on him, not her. If she decides to leave because it's best for her and what she deserves, great. She shouldn't be tasked with also making his asshole ways less of example she does enough already.

My ex became an asshole too. But the kid’s saw (at last and way later than I should have ) that I wouldn’t put up with that treatment. I waited too long and both my kids have some scars but neither one tolerates being treated like crap or less than an equal partner. I jump on DSsometimes because he pulls the same thing my ex would pull on me. The joking insults. When I hear it I call him out immediately and tell him my ex pulled the same crap and it’s a sign of insecurity. I want his girlfriend to know that that shit isn’t ok and not to be tolerated.

[zibazinski]

I don’t think Sam’s husband would bother her or the kids after awhile. Kids are work. As soon as he realizes that he can’t use the kids to manipulate Sam , he’ll stop.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Oct 2, 2018 16:22:52 GMT -5 debthaven said:

Sam, if your best friend or your sister were going through this, what would you advise her?

I see ZERO evidence that your husband is making any efforts. The counterpart of the wife "being sweet" is that the husband is the breadwinner. And THAT (as far as I know) is what gives the husband the "right" to tell his wife how to live/what to do/what to think/what to post on FB. It sucks, but at least your life is easier financially, if that's the family model you want to buy into.

You say your MIL is incredibly "sweet". My guess is that SHE is not the breadwinner in her nuclear family.

YOU are the breadwinner in yours, while raising your kids, doing charity work, etc etc etc. He's been TRYING to make a living for years, yet he has never succeeded. Is he trying to do anything else instead? Nope, not that I've seen (read).

Stupidity/Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Hugs to you my friend. You deserve SO MUCH BETTER, you are an extraordinary woman.

Would you want Aly to settle for what you're settling for?

If she's the breadwinner, shouldn't he be the one keeping sweet?

I know, it doesn't work that way. Damnit.

[raeoflyte]

Oct 2, 2018 18:04:17 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don’t think Sam’s husband would bother her or the kids after awhile. Kids are work. As soon as he realizes that he can’t use the kids to manipulate Sam , he’ll stop.

Not always, or even usually.  I'm not saying people should stay, but leaving doesn't mean life will be easier.  You are still stuck with that other person for the rest of your life.  Concerts, games, graduations, weddings, babies, that person is there, not to mention finances until the youngest ages out.  

It at least can't be taken lightly.  There's a reason no one else's marriage sounds good.  If it did, you'd probably be married to that person.  

[zibazinski]

Yes. Very true. Plus she has the added pressure of family wanting her to stay in the marriage. I wonder why the pressure isn’t put on him to be able to support his family. Pressure seems to be one sided.

[Pants]

Credit where credit is due: DH stayed home with stomach issues today. I walked in the door ready to demand he do chores as he didn't do anything last night. Instead he'd cleaned off the kitchen counter, the dining room table and folded the load of laundry I did last night. 

So 5-4-3-2-1 continues to improve my living situation. I'll be honest I'm not actually *tracking* the number of things anyone is doing, but just saying "Time for your 5's: pick up 5 things off the ground that don't belong there." Has improved life enormously. The shoes! THE SHOES ARE ALL SOMEWHERE APPROXIMATING THE CLOSET OR THE BOOT TRAYS! B's "1" today was making her own lunch for tomorrow! K's 1 was helping put away the clothes I washed yesterday and DH folded! I can see the floor in ALMOST EVERY ROOM. 

Anyway, it's going well. I'm hoping it sticks. 

[Pants]

Credit where credit is due: DH stayed home with stomach issues today. I walked in the door ready to demand he do chores as he didn't do anything last night. Instead he'd cleaned off the kitchen counter, the dining room table and folded the load of laundry I did last night. 

So 5-4-3-2-1 continues to improve my living situation. I'll be honest I'm not actually *tracking* the number of things anyone is doing, but just saying "Time for your 5's: pick up 5 things off the ground that don't belong there." Has improved life enormously. The shoes! THE SHOES ARE ALL SOMEWHERE APPROXIMATING THE CLOSET OR THE BOOT TRAYS! B's "1" today was making her own lunch for tomorrow! K's 1 was helping put away the clothes I washed yesterday and DH folded! I can see the floor in ALMOST EVERY ROOM. 

Anyway, it's going well. I'm hoping it sticks. 

[Lizard Queen]

I'm intrigued by this 54321 concept that you've come up with. It sounds straightforward enough that it could possibly work for me. I get that 5 is little things, and 1 is one big thing, but what's the middle?

[tcu2003]

Hugs to everyone that needs them.

Sam, I’m not going to pile on your DH any more as everyone else has or covered, but I want to reiterate that we all love and care about you, and just want to see you and your kiddos happy and in a situation where you can thrive and be your best selves.

[tcu2003]

On a different note, cancer sucks. C has been in swim lessons with a little boy “Q” since we moved her 4+ years ago, and the two boys are good friends. We just found out tonight that Q has leukemia. I don’t even know what to say or do, and we have to figure out a way to tell C as Q won’t be at swimming lessons anytime soon. They live over in Sam’s area, so we only see them at swim, birthdays, etc.

I wasn’t there tonight, so I know what mom/dad told DH. I’m going to reach out to Q’s mom and see what we can do to help. I’m thinking good/restaurant GCs, and then something for Q and his little brother (he’ll be 3 in January). Q is 6/in first grade. Any suggestions?