Wow... there is hope after all

[Deleted]

For fathers getting a divorce. I think I posted a few times about my friend that is getting a divorce. Last week he went to court for child support, yesterday for custody and next week again for child support.

Back story: : His wife cheated on him. She moved out with the kids (they have 3 kids together) to go live with her boyfriend. Their house is going thru a short sale now and she just give birth to child number 4 last month (not my friend's).

Anyway for the past year they have been separated and going thru a divorce he has been giving her $250/week for the kids and she is not working (by choice), yet he still have the kids half the time.

Last week the judge asked her to provide proof on why she is not working ans she should get a job. She told the job that it was her husband job to support the kids.. Heard the judge reaction to that was priceless.

Yesterday he was awarded shared custody (will have the kids 4 days one week and 3 days the following, etc). Based on that his lawyer is thinking that he might only be required to give her $100/week or less.

We are all happy for him and going out to celebrate tonight. He is picking his kids up tomorrow for his turn of the 4 days. When this whole thing blew up last year we all thought he was going to get screwed and felt bad since he is such a great father and love his kids.

Yes he lost his house (short sale) but he got shared custody and moving on with his life!

[Deleted]

We will see how this works out. I hate to be sexist, but most men of my generation would have trouble with the 4/3 split. They have to stay past when the daycare closes, etc.

My son has a SAHS, and he rarely gets home before 8:00 most days. He is a corporate CPA. I changed the dinner with my daughter, and she said that was great because her lawyer DH had an 8 o'clock conference call so she would have had to bring the 3 kids (oldest is 5). She works part-time, by the way, as a pharmacist.

So do you think your friend is going to be able to work his work schedule around child care duty?

[Deleted]

May 18, 2011 18:18:14 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

So do you think your friend is going to be able to work his work schedule around child care duty?

He'll do it the same way any working mom would do it.

I mean, it sounds like the mom in this scenario is a lazy piece of work, but how is a single dad balancing career and family any different than a single mom doing the same thing?

[Artemis Windsong]

I agree craftysarah.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2011 17:53:26 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

I thought that joint custody was pretty much the standard nowadays unless there is some compelling reason. As long as two reasonably good parents were involved, isn't that now the usual.

I still think the norm is one person getting physical custody, and then having joint legal custody. At least around here it works out that way most of the time.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

May 18, 2011 17:49:48 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Back story: : His wife cheated on him. She moved out with the kids (they have 3 kids together) to go live with her boyfriend. Their house is going thru a short sale now and she just give birth to child number 4 last month (not my friend's).

Anyway for the past year they have been separated and going thru a divorce he has been giving her $250/week for the kids and she is not working (by choice), yet he still have the kids half the time.

Last week the judge asked her to provide proof on why she is not working ans she should get a job. She told the job that it was her husband job to support the kids.. Heard the judge reaction to that was priceless.

Yesterday he was awarded shared custody (will have the kids 4 days one week and 3 days the following, etc). Based on that his lawyer is thinking that he might only be required to give her $100/week or less.

Even this irks me She should get NOTHING for child support. If they are splitting physical custody evenly, she deserves a big fat ZERO for child support. She pays for the kids when they are with her, he pays when they are with him. If he is already paying (providing food, shelter, etc) the 50% of the time that they are with him, he is doing his share as a parent. I think it is pathetic that he is expected to support her time with them (She is supposed to provide just as much support as he does). Her attitude and the fact that she sounds like a complete whore piss me off even more.

Best of luck to him, Carl, and I hope their kids realize when they grow up what a piece of trash their mother is. At least they have one good parent in their father.

Susana,
As far as how he will do it.. I agree with Sarah and Artemis. If single mom's are revered for being able to do it, why do you think single fathers wouldn't be able to it? Maybe he can work a more reasonable schedule since the amount of money he has to send to his blood sucking ex is less. Many guys and fathers don't want to spend the time away from their kids....they have to because they are spending time working to provide funds to support their children. As far as we have come with women's lib and gender equality, our society still holds a lot of traditional views about parenting (A lot of career moms are listed as bad mothers because they aren't spending all their time with the kids and SAHDs are looked at as lazy bums who can't support their families). I applaud this guy for standing up for himself and his children.

[Phoenix84]

I agree with Craftysarah.

Southernsusana, if a parent, mom or dad, is committed to making it work, they'll make it work. A loving father who wants to see his kids will make the time and make his work schedule fit around the kids. That's how single parents do it, and he doesn't even have the kids 100% of the time like most single parents.

[Deleted]

Sorry everyone, just getting back home now.

He already talked to his boss and it seems that he is ok with him bringing work home on the days he has the kids or adjusting his schedule per his needs.

But he understand that sometimes he will need some sort of baby sitting for the days he must stay late (conference call, meetings, deadline to meet) so looking to use the same person his sister uses sometimes for baby sitting or his sister herself can watch them for a couple of hours.

Last the reason the lawyer believes that he will still need to pay his wife (soon to be ex hopefully) child support is because she hasn't work since she got pregnant with her last child and now is at the poverty level (duh no income).

So even if he has the child half the time, he is expected to give her some money since she makes no money. He has no problem with that (he has been paying her 250/week for the past year), he is mostly happy that now it is on paper that he gets the kids half the time.

Last it seems she said to the judge that she the reason she doesn't work because she has the kids (they have a son 7, twins boy/girl that jus turned 4 and her baby that is 1 month old) and she can't afford daycare or have no one to watch them.

My friend offered to pay for daycare for the twins (7 year old goes to school) so she could find a job, her comeback was what about her newborn. He was like: Why don't you ask his father to pay for him. So now that she cannot use the other 3 as a reason not to work, she is using the newborn.

Waiting to see what the judge says next week; but so far my friend doesn't mind the child support, he rather knows that she has at least some money for when she has the kids to take care of them. He was so happy tonight and we are all so happy for him. He will get to see his kids on a regular basis, not when the mother feels like letting him see them.

[Deleted]

One other thing he mentionned I need to ask was about filling taxes with the kids. It seems his lawyer wants his wife to sign a legal document stating that she agrees that she they will alternate years when it comes to dependents, etc.

It seems she doesn't want to because even if he has the kids half the time, she wants to be able to file with all 3 of them when/if she gets a job.

I told him if that keeps them married for a minute more than it should than just forget it and let her have the kids.

He already lost his house, don't sink more money into this situation. Cut his losses, he already won the most important fight (shared custody)... so just move on.

Do you think it's worth it? I feel not

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

He already talked to his boss and it seems that he is ok with him bringing work home on the days he has the kids

If this is the case, it might be best if your friend lines up childcare on these days. He's being paid to do his job, not look after his kids and they are young enough that they are going to need supervision.

It might be smart if your friend looks for full time daycare. Then his ex will not have that much of an excuse as to why she cannot work.

About being able to file taxes, it might be smart if he lets her have one child to file and he files the other two. He'll have 2, she'll have 2 and he'll get some of the tax benefits.

[happyscooter]

Even this irks me She should get NOTHING for child support. If they are splitting physical custody evenly, she deserves a big fat ZERO for child support. She pays for the kids when they are with her, he pays when they are with him. If he is already paying (providing food, shelter, etc) the 50% of the time that they are with him, he is doing his share as a parent. I think it is pathetic that he is expected to support her time with them (She is supposed to provide just as much support as he does). Her attitude and the fact that she sounds like a complete whore piss me off even more.


Audrey, tell us how you REALLY feel.

[zibazinski]

No way is a judge going to award her nothing for cs and your friend is darn lucky he didn't get stuck paying for that baby that isn't his as well. If a judge can stick it to someone to pay as opposed to the taxpayers, they will. That being said, if he can't get the deduction for the 3 kids then give her one of them but make sure he always files first because if she does, he can't do it and the IRS does not give two hoots what your divorce papers say. He needs FULL and TOTAL custody. A woman who cannot support herself and her kids without cs should not be awarded custody at all. There's precedent for this going way back. His lawyer needs to get with it.

[daisylu]

The way that child support was explained to me is that the purpose of CS is to make the standard of living for the CHILD consistent. The original intent was that the child would be afforded the same lifestyle as if the parents had stayed together.


Granted, if one parent is a POS there is no way to insure that CS is used as it was intended.

[happyscooter]

If your friend is/was still married at the time the 4th child was born, how is his name not on the birth certificate? I thought even if there were paternity tests that proved the husband was not the father, since they were married, it was a given his name was on that piece of paper. Check on that.

[Wisconsin Beth]

May 19, 2011 6:20:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

He already talked to his boss and it seems that he is ok with him bringing work home on the days he has the kids

If this is the case, it might be best if your friend lines up childcare on these days. He's being paid to do his job, not look after his kids and they are young enough that they are going to need supervision.

It might be smart if your friend looks for full time daycare. Then his ex will not have that much of an excuse as to why she cannot work.

About being able to file taxes, it might be smart if he lets her have one child to file and he files the other two. He'll have 2, she'll have 2 and he'll get some of the tax benefits.

Or find a dcp that will let him pay only for the days used. My at home dcp does that. My kids were there 2 days this week, so we only pay for 2 days. If they're there 5 days, we pay for 5 days.

But the twins are 4 - when do they start school? Are they going to preK now? And when they're 5, will that be all day kindergarten or partial day? Will your friend have to get the kids from school to dcp or is there a bus or someone else who can do pickup and/or watching them afterwards. My DD just turned 3 and this is some of the stuff we're starting to question for preschool/preK.

[HoneyBBQ]

He should certainly file for the right to claim the kids on his taxes. At least half the kids anyways. Think of 15+ years of exemptions he'd be giving up.

[thyme4change]

My son has a SAHS, and he rarely gets home before 8:00 most days. He is a corporate CPA.

This isn't the norm. Working EVERY night until 8 pm. That just sucks period. Unless he goes to work at noon. 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year?

The way that child support was explained to me is that the purpose of CS is to make the standard of living for the CHILD consistent. The original intent was that the child would be afforded the same lifestyle as if the parents had stayed together.

I don't think it is the same lifestyle as if the parents stayed together - because so very few families live on 40% of their income. I heard it was also to make the standard of living consistent for the child, but not from history - but between the two parents. If one parent lives in a trailer with no running water, and the other parent lives in a large house in a fancy neighborhood, the child might pick a favorite for monetary reasons. Child support would aim to have both parents in a decent house with a decent standard of living.

[zibazinski]

CS comes nowhere near what it takes to provide for a child. What makes anyone think she is going to use any of that money for her children? A hundred bucks, seriously? Even if she only used it for her 3 kids, thats food and a little clothing. He is going to end up with them full-time anyway and he needs his lawyer to get this going.

[HoneyBBQ]

May 19, 2011 8:20:39 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

CS comes nowhere near what it takes to provide for a child. .

Depends on the state! We pay the x-wife almost 2k a month for the 2 kids.

Now, you're right, $100/month isn't gonna cut it.

[zibazinski]

Well, if I didn't have kids, I could have lived in a one bedroom in a not so great school district which would have been much cheaper. I bought a place in a good school district with a bedroom for each child. Even renting there would have been 1200-1500 a month plus utilties. Now add food, clothing, medical care, general kids needed stuff and you are way over even your 2k child support. Now if she lives in the ghetto and makes your kids share a bedroom in a 2 bedroom apt, that's another story.

[chiver78]

May 19, 2011 7:34:59 GMT -5 happyscooter said:

If your friend is/was still married at the time the 4th child was born, how is his name not on the birth certificate? I thought even if there were paternity tests that proved the husband was not the father, since they were married, it was a given his name was on that piece of paper. Check on that.

I know some people that have gotten royally screwed over by this in my state. definitely urge your friend to look into this, before he gets stuck paying CS for that newborn too.

[zibazinski]

BIG TIME!!! I would thnk the fact that she moved out and shacked up in front of your minor children would be against the law.

[swamp]

May 19, 2011 8:45:13 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

BIG TIME!!! I would thnk the fact that she moved out and shacked up in front of your minor children would be against the law.

You want the government to tell us who we can live with?

Not that I think it's a stellar idea to leave your husband to go live with your boyfriend, whether or not you bring the kids with you, but I don't think the government should have any say in it.

[midjd]

May 19, 2011 2:23:46 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

One other thing he mentionned I need to ask was about filling taxes with the kids. It seems his lawyer wants his wife to sign a legal document stating that she agrees that she they will alternate years when it comes to dependents, etc.

It seems she doesn't want to because even if he has the kids half the time, she wants to be able to file with all 3 of them when/if she gets a job.

I told him if that keeps them married for a minute more than it should than just forget it and let her have the kids.

He already lost his house, don't sink more money into this situation. Cut his losses, he already won the most important fight (shared custody)... so just move on.

Do you think it's worth it? I feel not

I think the alternating-years thing could get confusing and lead to pretty dire consequences if they were to accidentally claim the same kid during the same year. Could he get her to agree to claim 2 of the kids and he can claim the other one? My parents did this and it seemed to work out OK.

I would put up a fight on this, if he's providing at least 50% of the support, he should be AT LEAST equally entitled to the tax benefits. Over the course of 18 years, you're talking about a lot of money.

[swamp]

Usually, the courts will divide the tax examptions, and if there is an unequal amount of kids, the parents will alternate.

[midjd]

It sounds like the STBX isn't even willing to go that far, though... she might be more amenable if she got to keep 2 exemptions. Not a perfect solution for Cawaiu's friend, but better than nothing.

[zibazinski]

Sorry, I do think shacking up in front of minor children while married to another and then having another baby by the affair man is wrong and sets a bad example for children to see and emulate. We aren't talking a committed in every way but wedlock couple that has a family. We are talking about a tramp who took her children from their father and shacked up with another man and got pregnant by him. She should not get custody and her visitation should be very limited.

[zibazinski]

Wasn't there a legal case in Michigan where the mom had to marry her live-in or lose custody of the kids?

[Deleted]

May 19, 2011 8:57:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Sorry, I do think shacking up in front of minor children while married to another and then having another baby by the affair man is wrong and sets a bad example for children to see and emulate. We aren't talking a committed in every way but wedlock couple that has a family. We are talking about a tramp who took her children from their father and shacked up with another man and got pregnant by him. She should not get custody and her visitation should be very limited.

Slippery slope when we let the government decide what is right and wrong here. Besides, we're only getting one side of the story. Maybe the guy was an abusive jerk who shouldn't be near kids.

[swamp]

May 19, 2011 8:57:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Sorry, I do think shacking up in front of minor children while married to another and then having another baby by the affair man is wrong and sets a bad example for children to see and emulate. We aren't talking a committed in every way but wedlock couple that has a family. We are talking about a tramp who took her children from their father and shacked up with another man and got pregnant by him. She should not get custody and her visitation should be very limited.

Morally wrong/bad example doesn't mean illegal. I'd be horrified if the government could tell us who we can live with.