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Post by ed1066 on May 18, 2011 10:22:14 GMT -5
You'll get no argument from me that organized religion has been used to justify everything from war, to murder, to genocide, to slavery, rape and many other evils. And that includes Christianity as an institution. Jesus made that pretty clear in His public ministry calling religious leaders a "generation of vipers" who served their father, the devil. In his ONLY public display of anger, he was not rousting a cat house or gay bar-- he was chasing money changers out of the Temple. Don't let religion and religious leaders dissuade you from seeking the Truth-- seeking God yourself. Because in the end, you're not going to be asked about them, you're going to be asked about you. Judgment is basically a, "How would you like to pay for that?" situation. It's gonna be you, or the lamb. Choose the Lamb. The only thing unfair or outrageous about Christianity is that Jesus paid the price for our sins. Jesus took the punishment I was destined to receive. He took my shame, guilt, and death. And Jesus offers that gift to whoever will accept Him. If someone was born in China or Saudi Arabia and never had the chance to "choose the Lamb" why is it OK to eternally damn them to Hell? btw, the patron Saint of my Church is Saint John (the Wonderworker) of Shanghai en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_ChinaChristianity in China is a growing minority religion that comprises Protestants (called »ù¶½½Ì J¨© d¨± ji¨¤o Christ Religion or ÐÂ½Ì X¨©n ji¨¤o New Churches), Catholics (ÌìÖ÷½Ì Ti¨¡n zh¨³ ji¨¤o Lord of Heaven Religion), and a small number of Orthodox Christians. Although its lineage in China is not as ancient as the institutional religions of Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism, and the social system and ideology of Confucianism, Christianity has existed in China since at least the seventh century and has gained influence over the past 200 years.[1] The growth of the faith has been particularly significant since the loosening of restrictions on religion by the People's Republic since the 1970s. Religious practices are still often tightly controlled by government authorities. Chinese over age 18 in the PRC are permitted to be involved with officially sanctioned Christian meetings through the "China Christian Council", "Three-Self Patriotic Movement" or the "Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association".[2] Many Chinese Christians also meet in "unregistered" house church meetings. Reports of sporadic persecution against such Christians in Mainland China have caused concern among outside observers.[3]
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 18, 2011 10:23:14 GMT -5
Rowan Atkinson:
Hello, nice to see you all again.
As the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now - this is hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we try and keep things informal down here, as well as infernal.
Now, you're all here for eternity, which I hardly need tell you is a sod of a long time, so you get to know everyone pretty well by the end, but for now I'll have to split you up into groups.
Are there any questions?
No, I'm afraid we don't have any toilets, if you'd read your bible you would have seen that it was damnation without relief. So, I'm afraid if you didn't go before you came then you're not going to enjoy yourself very much, but then, I believe that's the general idea. Right, let's split you up then.
Can you all hear me? CAN YOU HEAR ME AT THE RACK?
Off we go,
Murderers, over here. Looters and pillagers - over there please, thieves if you could join them, and BANK MANAGERS.
Fornicators, if you could step forward... My God there are a lot of you. Could I split you up into adulterers and the rest? Adulterers if you could just form a line in front of that small guillotine there.
AMERICANS, are you here? I'm sorry about this, apparently God had some fracas with your founding fathers and damned the entire race into perpetuity. He sends particular condolences to the Mormons who He realises put in a lot of work. The Iranians, I'm afraid, couldn't be with us - someone's been holding them in purgatory for the last nine months.
Sodomites, over there against the wall.
Atheists, over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.
Christians, ah yes, I'm afraid the Jews were right.
Moonies, maniacs, marmite eaters, male models, masochists, mass murderers and masseurs, if you could take a pew at the back - with the Methodists that is.
Now, you're the lot who used to kill whales, is that right? Ah, yes, I must remember - I've got some strips to tear off you bastards later.
Everyone who saw Monty Pythons' "Life Of Brian", I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all.
Alright now, one final thing - we're trying to implement some sort of exchange scheme with the Lord God Almighty, or Cliff as we know him. Some of you will spend a decade in heaven and we're having some angels down here. Now, I hardly need tell you that you will be expected to behave in an exemplary manner, so, I hope you will do the exact opposite - tear off their wings, use their halos for frisbee practice, that sort of thing.
Well, I have to go now, but Beelzebub here will show you the ropes... and the chains... and the electrodes.
;D
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 10:24:12 GMT -5
You'll get no argument from me that organized religion has been used to justify everything from war, to murder, to genocide, to slavery, rape and many other evils. And that includes Christianity as an institution. Jesus made that pretty clear in His public ministry calling religious leaders a "generation of vipers" who served their father, the devil. In his ONLY public display of anger, he was not rousting a cat house or gay bar-- he was chasing money changers out of the Temple. Don't let religion and religious leaders dissuade you from seeking the Truth-- seeking God yourself. Because in the end, you're not going to be asked about them, you're going to be asked about you. Judgment is basically a, "How would you like to pay for that?" situation. It's gonna be you, or the lamb. Choose the Lamb. The only thing unfair or outrageous about Christianity is that Jesus paid the price for our sins. Jesus took the punishment I was destined to receive. He took my shame, guilt, and death. And Jesus offers that gift to whoever will accept Him. If someone was born in China or Saudi Arabia and never had the chance to "choose the Lamb" why is it OK to eternally damn them to Hell? God is a just God. I don't believe anyone dies without being given a clear moment of decision, and/or if they haven't been given that choice- then they aren't judged for it. However, God reveals Himself in more ways than TV preachers and missionaries. Through nature, through conscience, through providence, miracles, even audibly by speaking directly to people.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on May 18, 2011 10:27:53 GMT -5
Everybody could go on for days and days about this subject point is it is a personal choice/belief and not one person can say you are right or wrong. I was not raised in a religious home or read the bible I went to church with a friend even church camp and honestly even at 10 found it disturbing and even to me obviously using fear tactics. Most people not raised in that way find it very strange and have a hard time finding meaning or truth in most of it. I see the message being shouted loudest from Christians is the self righteous or damning ones, this is sure to turn many people away.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 10:30:18 GMT -5
I have a friend who is from Russia. He's older than me- and he has some harrowing stories of the old USSR. He came to faith in Christ through a missionary who was subsequently executed by the KGB. They used to have house churches in the USSR-- because that's all they could do. He tells a story of a time when the KGB burst into one of their worship times in someone's basement in Kiev. They pointed guns at everyone, and said that if you will renounce Christ, you may leave. No harm will come to you, you will not be arrested. About half the room left. At that point, one of the KGB agents locked the door behind the last person, put down his weapon, and said, "Well, I didn't come here to worship with the fakes". He had been witnessed to and accepted Christ after one of the people being tortured by the KGB told him that he loved him and was praying for him. He said he'd seen all kinds of people you couldn't crack, but never saw anyone filled with nothing but love and compassion for his tormentors.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 10:30:47 GMT -5
I can't believe this thread is still here.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 18, 2011 10:32:44 GMT -5
::God is a just God.::
You're right, and he's also called Yahweh and Allah in other cultures. I happen to believe Muslims and Jews and Atheists can get to Heaven, if there is a Heaven, by being good people and living by the Golden Rule. Accepting Jesus as your savior isn't necessary. That sentiment might get me to Heaven, it might earn me a trip to Hell, or it could just leave me rotting in the ground.
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Post by ed1066 on May 18, 2011 10:39:40 GMT -5
::God is a just God.:: You're right, and he's also called Yahweh and Allah in other cultures. I happen to believe Muslims and Jews and Atheists can get to Heaven, if there is a Heaven, by being good people and living by the Golden Rule. Accepting Jesus as your savior isn't necessary. That sentiment might get me to Heaven, it might earn me a trip to Hell, or it could just leave me rotting in the ground. Do atheists believe in heaven?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 18, 2011 10:41:08 GMT -5
::God is a just God.:: You're right, and he's also called Yahweh and Allah in other cultures. I happen to believe Muslims and Jews and Atheists can get to Heaven, if there is a Heaven, by being good people and living by the Golden Rule. Accepting Jesus as your savior isn't necessary. That sentiment might get me to Heaven, it might earn me a trip to Hell, or it could just leave me rotting in the ground. Do atheists believe in heaven? No they don't. But it doesn't mean Heaven doesn't exist.
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Post by ed1066 on May 18, 2011 10:42:21 GMT -5
Do atheists believe in heaven? No they don't. But it doesn't mean Heaven doesn't exist. I see, but you said "atheists can get to heaven". Does that mean they go even if they don't believe in it?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 18, 2011 10:44:46 GMT -5
No they don't. But it doesn't mean Heaven doesn't exist. I see, but you said "atheists can get to heaven". Does that mean they go even if they don't believe in it? I think they can. But I could also be wrong.............I don't have a hotline to God, so I don't feel comfortable making pronouncements about who is going to go to heaven and who won't make the cut.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 10:50:15 GMT -5
Mormons don't condemn anyone to hell. They see it as if someone never had the chance to accept or reject their version of the truth they are innocent in life and in the afterlife. That's why Mormons still baptize people after death, to give people the chance to hear the message. That really pizzes people off, which I find hilarious. I mean, if you don't believe what do you care if some Mormons all over the world are baptizing dead people? Seems people would just laugh it off to me, but NO.. I have baptized by proxy a few hundred of my dead female relatives, my husband did the males. I also did lists and lists of complete strangers. Can't hurt anyone, right, if people think it is all nonsense?? The only way anyone could hate it is if they are afraid it may be real, afraid people will reject it, then be cast in to outer darkness. What the heck-- if I was dead I'd take it, nothing to lose, right? The point is-- Mormons don't go through life telling people they are hell bound. I've been baptized in to several religions, but don't sit in any church at this time. I'm covered. LOL!! Love religion!!
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 10:57:57 GMT -5
Do you have a fence around your yard? Does your house have walls? Windows? Doors? Do you have locks on your doors? Do you have standards for who you will let in? Or do you just let any 'ol body that wants to come in, come in?
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on May 18, 2011 11:16:00 GMT -5
"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25. This means that a Christian should not argue with a non-believer to prove that he is right in what he says. And if one truly wants to know your beliefs, according to I Peter 3:15, you should "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." And if the person you are "debating" with still is not open to you, you leave it be: “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.” Luke 9:5. At that point all you can do is pray for them that they open their heart. If it is in their will to do so, they will.
A Christian should not "argue" their beliefs. You can tell most true Christians by their walk, not their talk. Even Lucifer could quote scripture. You just have to be very, very careful.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 18, 2011 11:25:50 GMT -5
Would you not let a Jew in your house? A Muslim? Stephen Hawking?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 11:27:39 GMT -5
pepper
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 11:30:39 GMT -5
Jews-- of course. All good Christians should welcome Jews in their home. Muslims-- some in my neighborhood for the entire 11 years we have been here, go to school with my kids. Their family takes them to school, picks them up from school, they do not mix with the other kids or families, so how would I know if I would let a Muslim in, since they do not want to come in? Hawkings-- sure. He sounds interesting. I have many types of friends from all walks of life.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 18, 2011 11:44:26 GMT -5
Hell,I don't even answer my phone.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 11:49:21 GMT -5
LOL, ugo!! Me, either!!
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 18, 2011 11:51:27 GMT -5
The most brilliant mind in the world could be wrong. By chance that is.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 13:32:56 GMT -5
"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25. This means that a Christian should not argue with a non-believer to prove that he is right in what he says. And if one truly wants to know your beliefs, according to I Peter 3:15, you should "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." And if the person you are "debating" with still is not open to you, you leave it be: “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.” Luke 9:5. At that point all you can do is pray for them that they open their heart. If it is in their will to do so, they will. A Christian should not "argue" their beliefs. You can tell most true Christians by their walk, not their talk. Even Lucifer could quote scripture. You just have to be very, very careful. Oh, I don't know about that. Sure- I see no point in vitriol, anger, or bickering-- but presenting a case is something I'm always going to do. Jude 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. Call it earnest contention. And I make no judgments about individuals. I only state what the Scriptures have said. Their argument is with God, not with me. Jude 1:9 "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 13:41:29 GMT -5
Would you not let a Jew in your house? A Muslim? Stephen Hawking? You've somehow or other managed to miss the obvious point. Heaven is God's House. He has rules, he has standards. They're slightly higher than our standards. I would let just about anyone in my house, but I do have limits-- I do have rules once you're in, or you're out. I love my Muslim neighbors. Some of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. I'm very likely part Jewish, so there may already be a Jew in my house. I see no reason why I would not invite Mr. Hawking in. I'd actually love to meet and converse with one of the most intelligent people that ever lived and yes- I'd give him my opinions as well as listen to his. He might learn something. My sister is a lot smarter than me, too-- but we don't let her cross the street by herself. Smart or intelligent doesn't always equate to possessing wisdom or common sense. From 1 Corinthians 1:
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on May 18, 2011 14:56:09 GMT -5
Palm Beach Paul:You might like to listen to him but understanding him may be a different matter. I have listened to him and his mind is on a different plain than the ordinary person. He seems to speak in terms to me as evreything is in theroletical terms. his body is a wreck so to speak but his mind is beyond common comperhension I would say.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on May 18, 2011 15:45:12 GMT -5
"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25. This means that a Christian should not argue with a non-believer to prove that he is right in what he says. And if one truly wants to know your beliefs, according to I Peter 3:15, you should "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." And if the person you are "debating" with still is not open to you, you leave it be: “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.” Luke 9:5. At that point all you can do is pray for them that they open their heart. If it is in their will to do so, they will. A Christian should not "argue" their beliefs. You can tell most true Christians by their walk, not their talk. Even Lucifer could quote scripture. You just have to be very, very careful. Oh, I don't know about that. Sure- I see no point in vitriol, anger, or bickering-- but presenting a case is something I'm always going to do. Jude 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. Call it earnest contention. And I make no judgments about individuals. I only state what the Scriptures have said. Their argument is with God, not with me. Jude 1:9 "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” I guess the point I was trying to make if someone asks you questions, then by all means, answer them with scripture to back you. But debating with someone who is not receptive in my opinion is a waste of time and it gives the appearance that you are trying to beat them over the head with it, which is not what those that are charged with spreading the gospel should be doing. It makes you appear that you are attempting to prove that you are right. Although it is THE TRUTH to you as a believer, to someone who already has in their mind that they do not believe will consider you to be a zealot, which is counterproductive. No amount of debating, arguing, fill in the blank, will change the mind of someone who steadfastly remains an unbeliever and that is their choice. The ones that you need to worry about are the ones on the fence. How one carries themselves in spreading the gospel will determine whether one wins or loses those that are uncertain.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 15:52:29 GMT -5
A zealot? Oh noooooo!!!!
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on May 18, 2011 15:54:41 GMT -5
A zealot? Oh noooooo!!!!
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 18, 2011 15:57:48 GMT -5
pepper- I'm just having some fun with you. I do see your point.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on May 18, 2011 16:07:15 GMT -5
pepper- I'm just having some fun with you. I do see your point. LOL! I know. And thanks.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 16:07:35 GMT -5
Alright!!!!! Music!!!!
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