Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 17, 2011 0:07:47 GMT -5
Doctrinal Christianity is based on the tenets of charity, reciprocity (i.e. the golden rule), humility, chastity, and outgoing concern for all human beings regardless of race.
Survival of the fittest is survival of the fittest. Literally: the ends justify the means. Might makes right.
You can moan and gripe about the horrible atrocities committed in the name of Christianity if you're in need of some foundation to base your viewpoint, but defining morality by Mr. Hawking's stated view (admittedly, subject to interpretation) has yielded far more dire consequences.
Social Darwinism is one of those slow-acting poisons that has crept into numerous ideologies. I highly doubt that Hawking espouses it, but we might as well add it as one data point in our assessment of the man's views.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on May 17, 2011 0:11:04 GMT -5
if the question was plainly "why are we here" that would be different. But maybe he is a Nazi I don't know he is a genius and they can be very easily misquoted and misunderstood.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 17, 2011 0:15:14 GMT -5
Virgil, regardless of your interpretation of his words, the man is a genius. The least you could do is spell his name correctly: Hawking, not Hawkins.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 17, 2011 0:24:20 GMT -5
Doctrinal Christianity is based on the tenets of charity, reciprocity (i.e. the golden rule), humility, chastity, and outgoing concern for all human beings regardless of race. Survival of the fittest is survival of the fittest. Literally: the ends justify the means. Might makes right. You can moan and gripe about the horrible atrocities committed in the name of Christianity if you're in need of some foundation to base your viewpoint, but defining morality by Mr. Hawkins' stated view (admittedly, subject to interpretation) has yielded far more dire consequences. Social Darwinism is one of those slow-acting poisons that has crept into numerous ideologies. I highly doubt that Hawkins espouses it, but we might as well add it as one data point in our assessment of the man's views. Hitler Was a Christian: The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalismwww.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 17, 2011 0:26:44 GMT -5
"Some men come by the name of genius in the same way as an insect comes by the name of centipede - not because it has a hundred feet, but because most people can't count above fourteen." - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg Mr. Hawking is a brilliant mathematician, but only one among thousands. His philosophical viewpoints are narrow and his scriptural knowledge unexceptional. He is a brilliant physicist, but his apt understanding of physical laws does not make for particularly insightful views on morality or the human condition. Thanks, Lak. I fixed the typo. I'm no stranger to Hitler's connection to the Vatican, Lak. "Christianity" to me is doctrinal Christianity. Many may call themselves Christians, and in fact millions do, but do not adhere to the tenets of the Bible. I daresay most professing Christians don't even know a fraction of what the Bible says. Comparing the Reich's use of Christian philosophy to the actual doctrines of Christian scripture is akin to likening a 5th Grade science experiment with "world class scientific research". If you don't abide by the complete doctrine, you might as well not abide by any of it. Blaming Christian philosophy for the Holocaust is utter ignorance. Blaming the Vatican for its role in supporting the Nazi regime: not so much. But the Vatican does not define Christianity any more than Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church. And in fact, most consider the Vatican to be a political entity rather than a religious one--for good reason.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 17, 2011 0:33:33 GMT -5
Where does exceptional "scriptural knowledge" come from?
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 17, 2011 0:48:16 GMT -5
By studying scripture steadily and diligently over the course of a human lifetime, uncovering incrementally deeper meaning and understanding, meditating on the results, and finding ways to put scriptural laws into practice in real life.
That would be a very abridged list. Aspects such as fasting, fellowshipping, and prayer I trust wouldn't be of much interest to you. Nor would any of the spiritual aspects.
Mr. Hawking is a brilliant physicist, but his knowledge about "the world" is scarcely less abridged than ours. I'd imagine you'd be the one to bring up this point when discussing the many prominent geniuses throughout history who were unequivocally convinced of God's existence.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 17, 2011 1:02:43 GMT -5
Virgil, as we all know, so-called "scriptural knowledge" comes solely from the Bible - for Christians. All the other fantasies are what one makes of it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 5:19:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 1:17:35 GMT -5
Scriptural knowledge comes from studying the scriptures, discussing them with others, applying them and seeing the end results. When I got a calling to teach new members Sunday School in my church I felt so unworthy, but my Bishop told me I was the one for the job. I studied, studied, hours and hours, cross referenced scriptures, searched and searched. Somehow I gave a good lesson every week. I learned a LOT through teaching others because I had to study. There is still tons I do NOT know, and only study reveals meaning, application provides confirmation. Sitting in church does not give one scriptural knowledge. Some churches don't even encourage reading and studying the Bible. I won't step foot in one of those churches, because I have no need of man made doctrine, nor will I just do what some preacher tells me without it being backed up by scripture. Amazing how many churches are that way, and how many people accept it. Well, any way, just blabbing....
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 17, 2011 1:25:47 GMT -5
We all get our viewpoints on morality somewhere, Lak. We either actively seek them out or have them handed to us. I have no doubt the world would be a much better place if more of the world's professing 'Christians' shared your views.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 5:19:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 1:45:24 GMT -5
I also believe in personal revelation through fasting and meditation, which is a solitary action not done in a church on Sundays. It worked for me many times when I had an issue I could not figure out. I've kind of gotten away from that. Need to take it up again. It's a lifestyle, a commitment 24/7/365, not 9-11 on Sundays. I fall short often, but at least I know what I want to be and try to go in the right direction. Best I can do. Most awesome thing I ever did was serve a 2 year mission for my church. Incredible the blessings that come from serving others. Enough from me. I'm still waiting for a mod to come slap us for a religious thread!! ;D
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 17, 2011 2:18:45 GMT -5
Really? But it's okay to talk about all the Christian Conservative politicians who want to ram their religious-backed legislation down our throats?
This thread is SCIENCE v. RELIGION v. POLITICS
However, it doesn't really matter to me if it's locked or deleted.
|
|
txbo
Familiar Member
Joined: Apr 1, 2011 4:07:47 GMT -5
Posts: 547
|
Post by txbo on May 17, 2011 4:05:26 GMT -5
Darwinism is now Nazism; you people crack me up. Next thing you will be telling me the earth is only 6000 years old. Your average Nazi that emigrated over here after the war is now a staunch republican conservative and all that I know are very religious as they were over there. Remember the Nazi’s prayed to the same god you believe in. They also had the believe that god was on their side. Nazi’s are conservatives by nature, god, and country and screw everyone else.
|
|
txbo
Familiar Member
Joined: Apr 1, 2011 4:07:47 GMT -5
Posts: 547
|
Post by txbo on May 17, 2011 5:52:27 GMT -5
I am not bashing, just a strong believer in evolution.
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on May 17, 2011 6:20:02 GMT -5
OK, so is there some point to the thread other than more religious bashing? Nope. Everybody will find out if there is a Heaven or Hell someday...hopefully before they die.
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on May 17, 2011 7:56:06 GMT -5
Seems to be a lot of threads about religion coming up lately, especially by those who claim to not believe in it. Maybe we should have a sub-board for religion.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 17, 2011 8:52:38 GMT -5
"Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God." - Heywood Broun And in my experience, nobody pops up 'kitchen sink' anti-Christian threads so constantly as those who are fearfully insecure in their own views. From a "who's the poor sot who's gotta moderate it" standpoint, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a religious sub-board would be a bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by ty on May 17, 2011 9:04:09 GMT -5
Of course it's a myth. It was made up to help people accept death in thinking that there is an after life in a better place. Why do you think all these religious fools run to the doctor for when they become ill. They know deep down all the praying in the world isn't going to save them. Pop some pills, get all better and you miss your chance once again to meet your intangible maker.
Remember the people over in the middle east on their godly mission passing out bibles to the starving people of Africa. (Stupid if you ask me), give the people food, not a bible. I think the almighty god declined to save their ignorant asses for passing out bibles to starving people that needed food. All the prayers in the world didn't save them.
|
|
|
Post by ty on May 17, 2011 9:06:48 GMT -5
OK, so is there some point to the thread other than more religious bashing? Nope. Everybody will find out if there is a Heaven or Hell someday...hopefully before the die. You have to die before going to heaven, unless you are proving my point. Heaven and hell is what you make your life here on earth. After you die, you become nothing more than a pile of compost for the planet once again that you evolved from.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 17, 2011 9:15:57 GMT -5
From a "who's the poor sot who's gotta moderate it" standpoint, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a religious sub-board would be a bad idea. Good grief, I couldn't possibly agree more, Virgil! That's a terrible idea! Bad enough we have a politics board! ;D
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on May 17, 2011 9:17:44 GMT -5
"Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God." - Heywood Broun And in my experience, nobody pops up 'kitchen sink' anti-Christian threads so constantly as those who are fearfully insecure in their own views. From a "who's the poor sot who's gotta moderate it" standpoint, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a religious sub-board would be a bad idea. I just remember a couple posters complaining that there were too many threads about the military and wanting a military sub-board...just making a point that there seems to be a trend of threads popping up about religion, or maybe I should clarify that most of them appear to be more anti-religion than anything.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 17, 2011 9:21:17 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from, Politically Incorrect. I have no clue why people feel it necessary to criticize the beliefs of others. Spirituality is such a deeply personal subject. One cannot tell another what to believe, what to strive toward, or what to find satisfying to the soul. I've always been puzzled as to why some feel it's something they must do.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 17, 2011 9:23:32 GMT -5
"Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God." - Heywood Broun Really? Do you get these little witticisms out of Cracker Jacks?
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on May 17, 2011 9:31:21 GMT -5
Thankfully P&M doesn't have any anti-religious types that show up ( creep up ) to every. single. religious thread like stink on poo.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,345
|
Post by swamp on May 17, 2011 9:40:40 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from, Politically Incorrect. I have no clue why people feel it necessary to criticize the beliefs of others. Spirituality is such a deeply personal subject. One cannot tell another what to believe, what to strive toward, or what to find satisfying to the soul. I've always been puzzled as to why some feel it's something they must do. Because I think that it the bible and koran say something about it's the believers duty to spread the good word.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 5:19:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 9:49:03 GMT -5
I don't see the people here that believe in God starting threads to try to "convert" people. The rare religious thread about Christianity is started by non religious people. Some of them have been quite nasty. I think the only reason this one hasn't gone belly up with nastiness is because Virgil popped in to visit. I love it. Real change of pace for our board.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 17, 2011 10:01:41 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from, Politically Incorrect. I have no clue why people feel it necessary to criticize the beliefs of others. Spirituality is such a deeply personal subject. One cannot tell another what to believe, what to strive toward, or what to find satisfying to the soul. I've always been puzzled as to why some feel it's something they must do. Because I think that it the bible and koran say something about it's the believers duty to spread the good word. Then, hand your target the bible, or the Qur'an (in English, if that's the language they can read) and allow that person to form their own opinions based on the teachings therein. You can lead a horse to water ... the book will do that. Whether or not that horse drinks will depend on whether or not the horse is thirsty.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,345
|
Post by swamp on May 17, 2011 10:02:33 GMT -5
Because I think that it the bible and koran say something about it's the believers duty to spread the good word. Then, hand your target the bible, or the Qur'an (in English, if that's the language they can read) and allow that person to form their own opinions based on the teachings therein. You can lead a horse to water ... the book will do that. Whether or not that horse drinks will depend on whether or not the horse is thirsty. I didn't say I agreed with the sentiment, just offering an explanation.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on May 17, 2011 10:05:11 GMT -5
" I think the only reason this one hasn't gone belly up with nastiness is because Virgil popped in to visit."
I think it has gone nasty since virgil brought up nazis.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on May 17, 2011 10:06:19 GMT -5
I've seen threads started by those who believe strongly in God (not here ... yet) and want to share those beliefs, just as I've seen threads that come from the opposite contention. Both tend to evolve into peeing contests, in my experience. I see no sense in it, personally. You're not going to change a deeply held belief through posts on a message board. The belief is far too personal, and too important to the individual to change because some anonymous "voice" on a message board tells you you're wrong. These threads, in my opinion, do nothing more than showcase the desire of some to denigrate the beliefs of others. No more, and no less, for the most part.
I, too, enjoy reading people who can discuss the issue rationally. Problem is, you find few of those on internet message boards ... again, in my experience.
|
|