Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 17:26:22 GMT -5
I completely agree, but depending on your skill set, MMM can be difficult especially in this economy. And yes, CB can only go so far.
That's why I would suggest most families focus on sharpening their skill set. Devoting time and energy and effort to that tends to go a hell of a lot farther than devoting the same time, energy and effort to finding rice for 30c cheaper.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on May 17, 2011 17:27:14 GMT -5
Of course, SOOD = LBYM, which usually happens by CB and MMM! ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I can play this game too! ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif)
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on May 17, 2011 17:28:37 GMT -5
They apparently sought and then shrugged off the experts' opinions about their diet, the psychology of their isolation, and investment tips that could have doubled their wealth. I don't think it's abuse or neglect (I take those words very seriously) but I think they should have at least CONSIDERED what experts had to say about potential consequences of some of their choices, especially the potential consequences for their kids. I'm not so sure if they sought out expert advise or merely agreed to be profiled by Money Magazine, but that could just be semantics so no argument there. They don't trust the stock market but they trust a pension? Uh... okay. Yeah, I don't get that either but she never claimed to be an expert in personal finance. Per this in-depth review: www.epinions.com/review/Book_The_Complete_Tightwad_Gazette_Promoting_Thrift_As_a_Viable_Alternative_Lifestyle_Amy_Dacyczyn/content_219544784516What about investing? Several critics complained that the author does not cover the topic of investing which is also a very important aspect of saving your money. I agree with the idea that investing is crucial, however the author clearly states that she is not qualified to give advice on this subject and that the reader should seek that kind of advice elsewhere. The topic of investing belongs in another book.BTW, Dark - I agree with you about having dinner at her house. I'd probably bring my own food. ;D
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on May 17, 2011 17:29:55 GMT -5
I completely agree, but depending on your skill set, MMM can be difficult especially in this economy. And yes, CB can only go so far. That's why I would suggest most families focus on sharpening their skill set. Devoting time and energy and effort to that tends to go a hell of a lot farther than devoting the same time, energy and effort to finding rice for 30c cheaper. Technically that would depend on how much rice you eat. ;D
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 17:32:19 GMT -5
Of course, SOOD = LBYM, which usually happens by CB and MMM! Anyone else getting flashbacks of the asking for directions scene from Renaissance Man?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 17:42:11 GMT -5
Technically that would depend on how much rice you eat. ;D
True is true ;D
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on May 17, 2011 18:01:48 GMT -5
They apparently sought and then shrugged off the experts' opinions about their diet, the psychology of their isolation, and investment tips that could have doubled their wealth. I don't think it's abuse or neglect (I take those words very seriously) but I think they should have at least CONSIDERED what experts had to say about potential consequences of some of their choices, especially the potential consequences for their kids. I'm not so sure if they sought out expert advise or merely agreed to be profiled by Money Magazine, but that could just be semantics so no argument there. They don't trust the stock market but they trust a pension? Uh... okay. Yeah, I don't get that either but she never claimed to be an expert in personal finance. Per this in-depth review: www.epinions.com/review/Book_The_Complete_Tightwad_Gazette_Promoting_Thrift_As_a_Viable_Alternative_Lifestyle_Amy_Dacyczyn/content_219544784516What about investing? Several critics complained that the author does not cover the topic of investing which is also a very important aspect of saving your money. I agree with the idea that investing is crucial, however the author clearly states that she is not qualified to give advice on this subject and that the reader should seek that kind of advice elsewhere. The topic of investing belongs in another book.BTW, Dark - I agree with you about having dinner at her house. I'd probably bring my own food. ;D I think that they would have been a little better off if they had invested a little bit of their jam making time into learning more about finances. Even though I had a college degree and knew A LOT about how to hold on to more of what we made, one day it occurred to me that I really didn't know a whole lot about what to do with all that money that we were saving. I trotted off to the library and came home with a shitpile of Money magazines and branched out from there. I don't know what level of education the parents had, but I would have thought that they would have been smart enough to at least TRY to learn more about finances and investment.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on May 17, 2011 18:11:17 GMT -5
dancinmama, I agree wholeheartedly but for whatever reasons they had a distrust of the stock market and chose not to invest in it (toughtimes make a good point about the need to be conservative when you're not bringing much in).
I dare say that this board would have a lot of new discussion activity if the Dacyczyns decided to participate in it!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 18:14:42 GMT -5
Here is a shocker: Their lifestyle is close to what was traditional in the United States in Grandpa's (or even mama's day). At one time, grown children were expected to help support parents. Gasp! Sure, but that's getting close to a century ago. Times change. That's why they can't all but sell the kids to some businessman and use the proceeds to fund their retirement, which also would have been an option a hundred years ago. I have known plenty of people who lived like this and they weren't materially worse off than many who make more and spend heedlessly. We aren't saying they should make more and spend it recklessly. We're saying they could have made a little more and maybe cut out the year old food and dumpster diving, as well as taking a family vacation with the kids every few years or something.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:20:09 GMT -5
So far as, "Don't they want to make more with their money?" There is a simple answer to this conundrum. When money is painstakingly-accumulated, the loss of even a small portion can cause irreparable damage. That is why the disabled and seniors are often extremely conservative.
Oh come on. The right investments are not the least bit reckless - just ask Phil! 70% in bonds is just throwing money away at this point.
It's only reckless if you don't know what you're doing. They could have spent a few hours of that precious jam-making time figuring out what they were doing.
I'm really, really, really curious what their plan was for kids' college and retirement if they outlived the pension before the windfalls started coming. I'm the first to say that you don't HAVE to pay for your childrens' college, but it seems a bit disingenuous for them to be bragging that they were able to do that on $17k a year when in reality, $17k a year would have NEVER paid for six college tuitions. NEVER.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 17, 2011 18:22:07 GMT -5
I see what you mean. there is an opposite side to all of this though. Enriched life could mean different things to country dwellers. Like: Watching birds gather in all their glory and beauty to feed in your back yard. Tending to grapes and watching the life cycle. Surprise at the fawn eating off your old apple tree. A real bumble bee buzzing around you letting you know this is his territory. I think a good life is a personal matter. there are family dynamics, and children need to fall within them. When they're on their own, they can do other things. Don't get me wrong, our kids did lots of things, but only one organized sport or activity per semester for each of them. With 4 kids, it could get a bit harried. They went to large cities for trips and were exposed to nature and fishing as well. Even our girls can fire a rifle then go inside and play the violin. I Hate to travel, so that experience wouldn't work for me. I am saying all of this to let you know that there is an individual meaning of 'a good life'. I live in the city. I have birds gather around my flower gardens in my backyard. I get wildlife (mostly rabbits, and occasoinal deer), we gets bees all the time, they are annoying. I'm saying all this to let you know that city dwellers are not always holed up in concrete buildings. We do have yards and andimals adn gardens, etc. And I maintain that her statement of discouraging the kids from making outside friends hinders their life enrichment, no matter what they are into. With all due respect, I didn't say you didn't have these things, I said some people consider these things in their lives an enrichment. One that is enough for them. All things are relative. Some of them are relative to personal taste. She didn't discourage them from having outside friends, she didn't cart them around all of the time, she used her time in different ways.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:24:35 GMT -5
Her "growth" will probably come from the passive income generated by her books. And before you knock her strategies too much, how many of you have investments such as real estate, book or acting royalties? This can be a very important source of income, especially if you might find yourself unable to work in the future. Tough, I know a bunch of writers. Unless you are Jodi Piccoult, it is NOT an industry to which you want to hitch your family's future. It's too uncertain. No one can predict what books are going to sell well. That her books happened to sell well was nothing more than luck. I'm stunned that you would advocate depending on THAT income over something steady like solid mutual fund investments. The stock market is gambling but selling books isn't? ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I can't even wrap my brain around that one.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:26:25 GMT -5
She didn't discourage them from having outside friends
She specifically said that she did.
The family is "emotionally self-contained," says Amy proudly. She likes her children to play with one another, not with other people's kids. "
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 18:28:56 GMT -5
You tell 'em Firebird!
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 17, 2011 18:29:05 GMT -5
I guess "poverty" is relative. Six children grew up in a large, beautiful home in the country with two parents who loved them. All six went to college because their parents saved up enough money in spite of a low income. Between their savings and earnings from publications, they were able to retire at an age most people can only dream of. I guess I would define "poverty" diffently. This sounds like selective editing to me. They didn't save up enough from their earnings and publications to retire. He retired with a pension that put them well below the federal poverty level for a family their size, and they found a way to live on it. While doing that she started the newsletter, which later caught on, and gave them enough money to pay for the kids college. Without the newsletter, he would have retired early to a life of poverty, they would have done the best job they could raising the kids, but they wouldn't have been able to help with college at all. He didn't save up enough to retire. He decided to force the whole family to live on his tiny pension because he didn't want to work anymore. She made lemonade out of lemons with the publications, but I think that without them they still would have chosen to raise the kids in poverty instead of working. I'm glad it worked out for them, but that doesn't mean I respect their choice. They had a small business and worked on it together. he retired from leaving the house to work. he currently is retired, but works part time because he isn't one to sit around. If this were a YMer, you'd be applauding them.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 17, 2011 18:30:59 GMT -5
I don't consider thrift store shopping fun anymore. Mainly because we only have two and people have caught on so they are CROWDED. Then the stores have caught on and raised prices accordingly, I have to be really careful to read price tags. There was a shirt at goodwil that on clearance at Old Navy I could get for a buck and they wanted $7. I still snag some good deals once and awhile, I got a really nice leopard print trench coat that fits like a second skin for $7.99. Then the Salvation Army is a steal for baby clothes when I can find DD's size, especially if I can find them with the tags marked for an extra 50% off. I tend to look there first, but in general it's becoming more annoying to shop at the thrift stores than it is to go to the mall and shop clearance racks. I hear you. Same thing in my area.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 17, 2011 18:32:34 GMT -5
OK, he didn't force anything, they both forced that lifestyle on the kids. It doesn't change the rest of my post. They didn't have money saved for the kids college when he retired. They didn't even have money saved for themselves. They had his tiny pension and that was it. Dark, they made more than 17000 +, they decided to save and use only 17000+.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 18:35:56 GMT -5
If this were a YMer, you'd be applauding them. LOL! Were you around on the old YM? The only example that comes to mind is telling Tough that she doesn't make enough to live in NYC and that she should move, but I've also told numerous people asking for advice that cutting back was only going to help them so much and they should really focus on increasing earnings long term. I seriously can't imagine applauding any parents that are feeding their kids questionable food on a regular basis because they choose too. If you fundamentally don't have the means to provide better, that's one thing, but doing it out of choice... yeah I won't be singing your praises.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:36:49 GMT -5
Dark, they made more than 17000 +, they decided to save and use only 17000+.
AFTER the royalties started coming in and the website started making money. Were it not for those successes, they would have been working with $17k for the rest of their lives.
Nice for them that it worked out that way, but it doesn't mean that living on $17k per year for the rest of their natural life was a good plan.
What if one of their kids had fallen desperately ill and needed different treatments/coverage than his veteran benefits offered?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:38:59 GMT -5
I've also told numerous people asking for advice that cutting back was only going to help them so much and they should really focus on increasing earnings long term.
I don't believe we've ever had a poster in serious financial trouble who wasn't advised multiple times to at least THINK about ways to potentially increase hir income. Speaking for myself, that's usually the first thing I suggest. Cutting back, in my mind, is a temporary measure - not a long term solution.
Especially for people who are used to a certain caliber lifestyle. It's like dieting. If you're used to eating whatever you want, whenever you want, a diet might be sustainable for awhile but eventually you are going to want to indulge your old tastes - which you can do, provided you balance it with sufficient exercise.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 18:41:57 GMT -5
AFTER the royalties started coming in and the website started making money. Were it not for those successes, they would have been working with $17k for the rest of their lives. Not to nitpick, but they would have been working with $14k. Their expenses each year at the time the article was written were $17.5k, his pension is only $14k. They would have been living above their means even with the scrimping if her newsletter hadn't taken off.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:48:03 GMT -5
It is nice to have a small check or two coming in every month from a television commercial you did (actors get royalties) or from a book you published. You can even knock off a few articles in your spare time and put them on sites they pay a few pennies per view. No, this will not replace a day job, but those pennies could come in for years and they will come in regardless of the stock market.Wait - huh?I used to write articles and a column for an online magazine. It kind of fell into my lap. I made around $200 bucks a month for maybe an hour's worth of work. Good gig. Fun. Eventually it ended, but never mind that (I could easily still be writing articles for the magazine or a similar one if I wanted). Are you seriously suggesting I should have devoted my time to that $200 when I could have been setting up serious passive income streams that required NO work on my part once they were well established? And PENNIES PER PAGE VIEW? Are you kidding me?! That won't even pay for renter's insurance! ![](http://us.social.s-msn.com/s/images/emoticons/what_smile.gif)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 18:53:55 GMT -5
Not to nitpick, but they would have been working with $14k. Their expenses each year at the time the article was written were $17.5k, his pension is only $14k. They would have been living above their means even with the scrimping if her newsletter hadn't taken off.
That's not a nitpick, that's an important point which I missed.
I would be very interested to know what their plan was for that shortfall before the business took off.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 18:56:00 GMT -5
It might not have existed before the business took off. He retired in 91 and the article was written in 97. Maybe their expenses had crept up a bit.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 17, 2011 19:00:45 GMT -5
dancinmama, I agree wholeheartedly but for whatever reasons they had a distrust of the stock market and chose not to invest in it (toughtimes make a good point about the need to be conservative when you're not bringing much in). I dare say that this board would have a lot of new discussion activity if the Dacyczyns decided to participate in it! How do we know they are not participating?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 19:02:14 GMT -5
Which might mean they were living right at their income. I could never do that and still sleep at night, regardless of whether I was living on $5k a year or $500k a year.
Again, pensions fail, insurance has limitations - shit, LIFE HAPPENS. How can you not save anything at all for your future and live right at the limit of the income you do make?
They have SIX CHILDREN. The more I think about this, the angrier it makes me. Sure, everything worked out for them and I'm glad. But it could just as easily have all gone bad in a big hurry and they could have ended up on welfare.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 17, 2011 19:02:15 GMT -5
How do we know they are not participating? We don't for sure, but I'd guess they aren't the type to pay for internet service.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on May 17, 2011 19:09:38 GMT -5
We don't for sure, but I'd guess they aren't the type to pay for internet service. Probably not. And also the fact that I haven't seen too many threads about dumpster diving on YM. ;D
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on May 17, 2011 19:12:18 GMT -5
How do we know they are not participating? We don't for sure, but I'd guess they aren't the type to pay for internet service. Cuz there aren't enough of their radical money saving tips on Smart Spending? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 17, 2011 19:20:40 GMT -5
Ok this one is filtering out for me. I'm just glad there is a family who raised productive citizens who are emotionally well balanced and are contributing to society in a positiver manner. And, this is a plus, could teach others about re cycling! ;D
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