Not directly politics

[raeoflyte]

With respect to the off topic thread I thought I'd throw this out there for anyone else navigating the what now because of the election.

My most time sensitive one is Thanksgiving. I might not do the big meal with everyone this year. I never wanted to push "my agenda" on anyone and believed my kids would come to their own conclusions. I think dc specifically could face real repercussions sooner than later. I don't want to surround them by anyone other than true ally's at home.

Other thoughts I'm grappling with is when to tell the kids to be less open. Ds gave a speech literally outing dh to his entire language arts class last week, dead name and all (with dh's ok). I was proud of him, but I worry now.

What are the best ways to help? Accessaide.org I think is the site to donate to that will mail abortion pills to people in red states discreetly. Would love other suggestions to get involved.

And at some point I have to refocus on work. I cannot get my brain to function for any length of time though.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 7, 2024 11:35:35 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

With respect to the off topic thread I thought I'd throw this out there for anyone else navigating the what now because of the election.

My most time sensitive one is Thanksgiving. I might not do the big meal with everyone this year. I never wanted to push "my agenda" on anyone and believed my kids would come to their own conclusions. I think dc specifically could face real repercussions sooner than later. I don't want to surround them by anyone other than true ally's at home.

Other thoughts I'm grappling with is when to tell the kids to be less open. Ds gave a speech literally outing dh to his entire language arts class last week, dead name and all (with dh's ok). I was proud of him, but I worry now.

What are the best ways to help? Accessaide.org I think is the site to donate to that will mail abortion pills to people in red states discreetly. Would love other suggestions to get involved.

And at some point I have to refocus on work. I cannot get my brain to function for any length of time though.

Hopefully, you will be able to read this complete article. It seems it might help you with the holidays and family/friends. If you cannot read the complete article and are interested in its entirety, I will find a way to message it to you.

11 Things to Say to Your Relative Whose Politics You Hate

[raeoflyte]

Nov 7, 2024 11:50:24 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 7, 2024 11:35:35 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

With respect to the off topic thread I thought I'd throw this out there for anyone else navigating the what now because of the election.

My most time sensitive one is Thanksgiving. I might not do the big meal with everyone this year. I never wanted to push "my agenda" on anyone and believed my kids would come to their own conclusions. I think dc specifically could face real repercussions sooner than later. I don't want to surround them by anyone other than true ally's at home.

Other thoughts I'm grappling with is when to tell the kids to be less open. Ds gave a speech literally outing dh to his entire language arts class last week, dead name and all (with dh's ok). I was proud of him, but I worry now.

What are the best ways to help? Accessaide.org I think is the site to donate to that will mail abortion pills to people in red states discreetly. Would love other suggestions to get involved.

And at some point I have to refocus on work. I cannot get my brain to function for any length of time though.

Hopefully, you will be able to read this complete article. It seems it might help you with the holidays and family/friends. If you cannot read the complete article and are interested in its entirety, I will find a way to message it to you.

11 Things to Say to Your Relative Whose Politics You Hate

It has good ideas. I'm not interested in educating people right now. We've been doing that for almost 30 years. If they know us and my kids and claim to love or support us but voted for Trump I'm questioning if they have a spot at our table.

[flamingo]

I agree with you, raeoflyte, I'm done educating people. It's too hard on me to keep beating my head against that wall right now.

DH and I are traveling out of the country for Thanksgiving, but I have a feeling we'll still be surrounded by folks who voted for hate. My immediate family (parents, sister) is as devastated as DH and I are today, so at least I feel like I can keep seeing them. 

I'm especially worried for a trans family member. She's handling this better than I am, surprisingly, but that doesn't stop by worry for her. 

I don't know, maybe it's because it's still so fresh and raw, but I just can't figure out how to move forward right now.

[daisylu]

I am going to stay in my own bubble and encourage my kids, though they no longer live at home, to do the same.

Not sure if I have mentioned it on the board before, but DD(almost 25YO) struggles with sexuality. When she was 14 she told us that she was asexual. Then at 18 she had a boyfriend, though they never even so much as kissed, and this year she has a girlfriend (I have not inquired on PDA in that relationship, though I doubt much has happened). 

My dad can/will not wrap his head around any of it. We had words when she told us that she was asexual because he can feel anyway that he wants to about it but he will not make my child feel bad about herself. Since then he mostly avoids the topic but her relationship with my parents is basically non existent because she does not feel like she can be her true authentic self around them. (Mom is not an issue, but they are a package deal.) I fear that after this election he will feel vindicated about his thoughts and become vocal again.

I have not discussed anything substantial with them in the last 2-3 years and have learned to only discuss superficial things and how to deflect when they try steer into areas that I am not comfortable discussing with him/them.

[azucena]

I think this podcast called post-election family meeting is worth a listen. It helped me start to process and think through my perspective.

wecandohardthingspodcast.com/

[azucena]

A friend of mine also just sent this fb reel about simulating neurogenic tremors to complete the stress response. She was thinking of it as possibly helping bonus teen, but I'm def going to try it on myself as well.

www.facebook.com/reel/541256892134686

[lurkyloo]

I am offering people a chance to vent, mostly staying numb, and avoiding anything vaguely right wing like the plague.  MIL and FIL can have Thanksgiving and Christmas by themselves.  I’m not dealing with them.

It is still a relief to be in a deep blue area though.  
 

[raeoflyte]

Nov 7, 2024 15:39:26 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

I am offering people a chance to vent, mostly staying numb, and avoiding anything vaguely right wing like the plague.  MIL and FIL can have Thanksgiving and Christmas by themselves.  I’m not dealing with them.

It is still a relief to be in a deep blue area though.  
 

I can't imagine what I'd do if we were in a red state/area.

Even in our area Trump signs/flags that weren't up Monday have sprung up though. A reminder that I have become way too complacent and trusting.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 7, 2024 15:51:21 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Nov 7, 2024 15:39:26 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

I am offering people a chance to vent, mostly staying numb, and avoiding anything vaguely right wing like the plague.  MIL and FIL can have Thanksgiving and Christmas by themselves.  I’m not dealing with them.

It is still a relief to be in a deep blue area though.  
 

I can't imagine what I'd do if we were in a red state/area.

Even in our area Trump signs/flags that weren't up Monday have sprung up though. A reminder that I have become way too complacent and trusting.

Honestly I hate to say this but already being in a red state makes it less  . . .shocking?  Don't get me wrong I know things can ALWAYS get worse but the world has kept spinning for me every time Iowa has ripped the rug out from under me to date.

It makes me ill and I hate myself for thinking that way because it is my nature to care about others and want to do right by others. I hate that I am having discussions with my daughters that teens/tweens should not be having to have with their mothers.

But I am so burnt out at this point.  I was hopeful in 2020, now we've swung even further back in the opposite direction. 

I'll still vote and I will donate where appropriate but it's been made clear the world is out of my control and has no interest in what I have to say.  

At 10:30 on Tuesday November 5th my last flying fuck disappeared.  

[Pink Cashmere]

I know a little girl that has been saying for a few years now that she is a boy, not a girl, since she was about 3yo. She gets upset and tells her sibling that she is not their sister, she is their brother. She refuses to wear dresses and prefers clothes with dinosaurs and spaceships on them. She does still let her Mom put ribbons in her hair, sometimes.

I don’t know much about that kind of thing other than minding my own business. Her Mom doesn’t fight with her about it, her Dad doesn’t either, even though I get the impression that he really doesn’t know what to do with that. Maybe neither parent does. In my ignorance on the subject, it seems that if she started saying that so young, pretty much as soon as she could articulate it after understanding on some level that boys and girls are different, and continues to say it, it’s probably coming from within her and not outside influences. Her parents have been married for over a decade, she has both female and male siblings. 

Will she continue saying it, of course I have no way of knowing. But what if it really is true for her that her outside doesn’t match her inside? What will life be like for her when she gets older and it’s not just people close to her that knows she says she is a boy? Well, it’s possible that other people already know, since she is school age now, and idk if she’s ever said it at school. 

But how does it harm me, if her inside really doesn’t match her outside? If the day comes that her Mom tells me to switch pronouns, how does that affect MY life and become MY business to say anything but okay, and do it? The only way it would affect me would be me feeling sad about the road ahead for that family and that individual.

I don’t have the luxury of just being over it all. There is too much at risk for me and the people I love the most. I have a mother that needs her SS benefits even though she doesn’t manage her money well. I have children and grandchildren that will still be living in this world after I’m gone, if things happen in the natural order of things. I can’t help but be very concerned for them. And even with me, I am far from wealthy. I work for the federal government and I NEED the income. And all of that is about just surviving and being able to eat and have shelter. That’s not getting into healthcare. It’s also not getting into being minorities, because who knows what’s coming IRT that.

I do not have any family members or close friends that support Trump, at least not that I know of. So there is at least that, that I don’t have to cut anybody off that I truly care about. But I would/would have, in a fraction of a second. You can’t really and truly love me…… and support people and agendas that would harm me at the same time….. for things about me that harm nobody and nothing, things I couldn’t change about myself even if I wanted to. I understand why some people are wrestling with those things in their families, because they love their family members, but even though I struggle with a lot of things regarding my family, I personally wouldn’t struggle with that. But that may be because I’ve already been through some things where I’ve had to stand up against some family members and make it clear that I roll with my children when they aren’t wrong and you can kiss the ballon knot on my black ass before I try to keep the peace over something that negatively affects my children or makes them uncomfortable. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Don't get me wrong I'm worried for my daughters, their friends both queer and female as well as my own.

I worry about my international friends.

But if someone wants to vote against her rights in exchange for cheaper gas go right on ahead more power to you.

I'm done reasoning with people.

I'll always be a safe haven for those I care about and it extends to my kids friends.

Everyone else? May they get what they bargained for.

Does that make sense?

[Pink Cashmere]

Nov 7, 2024 19:56:22 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Don't get me wrong I'm worried for my daughters, their friends both queer and female as well as my own.

I worry about my international friends.

But if someone wants to vote against her rights in exchange for cheaper gas go right on ahead more power to you.

I'm done reasoning with people.

I'll always be a safe haven for those I care about and it extends to my kids friends.

Everyone else? May they get what they bargained for.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense.

BUT….. am I can only speak for me….. because I DO care about my loved ones and even the little girl I wrote about, I can’t just retreat and stick my head in the sand and say I’m just going to do what I can for me and mine. That little girl is not “mine” but I care about her and others like her.

I understand people needing to retreat and regroup. I’ve never been in the military and know nothing about war and how to fight one, but my soul says that sometimes it is necessary to retreat and regroup when fighting a war. And that could just be a bunch of nonsense, even though it’s what I believe. But that doesn’t mean just giving up and staying in a bubble for forever, it means pulling back temporarily to take a minute to tend to what needs tended to, to regain strength to come back and fight some more. 

In my mind, if the good people don’t stand up against the bad people, because certain things don’t really affect them, we are all doomed. Because if we allow evil to flourish, eventually the “good” people will be affected too, or their children and grandchildren. It reminds me of the poem or whatever about people watching as evil came for this group of people and that one, and said and did nothing, then they came for them too. 

[raeoflyte]

Nov 7, 2024 20:25:09 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Nov 7, 2024 19:56:22 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Don't get me wrong I'm worried for my daughters, their friends both queer and female as well as my own.

I worry about my international friends.

But if someone wants to vote against her rights in exchange for cheaper gas go right on ahead more power to you.

I'm done reasoning with people.

I'll always be a safe haven for those I care about and it extends to my kids friends.

Everyone else? May they get what they bargained for.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense.

BUT….. am I can only speak for me….. because I DO care about my loved ones and even the little girl I wrote about, I can’t just retreat and stick my head in the sand and say I’m just going to do what I can for me and mine. That little girl is not “mine” but I care about her and others like her.

I understand people needing to retreat and regroup. I’ve never been in the military and know nothing about war and how to fight one, but my soul says that sometimes it is necessary to retreat and regroup when fighting a war. And that could just be a bunch of nonsense, even though it’s what I believe. But that doesn’t mean just giving up and staying in a bubble for forever, it means pulling back temporarily to take a minute to tend to what needs tended to, to regain strength to come back and fight some more. 

In my mind, if the good people don’t stand up against the bad people, because certain things don’t really affect them, we are all doomed. Because if we allow evil to flourish, eventually the “good” people will be affected too, or their children and grandchildren. It reminds me of the poem or whatever about people watching as evil came for this group of people and that one, and said and did nothing, then they came for them too. 

Thank you. I couldn't think of the right words but this is what I'm feeling.

[Tennesseer]

Back in the very early '70s, I worked the front desk for a Connecticut airport area hotel.  One afternoon I had the pleasure of checking-in Christine Jorgensen who had a flight out the following morning.  We even spoke for several minutes about the weather and stuff.  Nice lady.

Christine Jorgensen

[raeoflyte]

Nov 7, 2024 20:28:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Back in the very early '70s, I worked the front desk for a Connecticut airport area hotel.  One afternoon I had the pleasure of checking-in Christine Jorgensen who had a flight out the following morning.  We even spoke for several minutes about the weather and stuff.  Nice lady.

Christine Jorgensen

Hmmmmm.....perhaps the reason there were "fewer" transgender people back then is because of how difficult and limited medical care was. How many people could go to Europe for care if they even knew it was an option. It's not because they didn't exist though. Similar autism (which I'm not very educated on so if I misspeak - anyone, please correct me). Once the medical community understands a condition and can treat it, there seems to be a spike of diagnosis but it's just that science is catching up, not creating something new.... hmmmm but our leadership wouldn't ignore science. Not possible. All this gender stuff must be a conspiracy.

[Pink Cashmere]

Nov 7, 2024 20:27:14 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Nov 7, 2024 20:25:09 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

It does make sense.

BUT….. am I can only speak for me….. because I DO care about my loved ones and even the little girl I wrote about, I can’t just retreat and stick my head in the sand and say I’m just going to do what I can for me and mine. That little girl is not “mine” but I care about her and others like her.

I understand people needing to retreat and regroup. I’ve never been in the military and know nothing about war and how to fight one, but my soul says that sometimes it is necessary to retreat and regroup when fighting a war. And that could just be a bunch of nonsense, even though it’s what I believe. But that doesn’t mean just giving up and staying in a bubble for forever, it means pulling back temporarily to take a minute to tend to what needs tended to, to regain strength to come back and fight some more. 

In my mind, if the good people don’t stand up against the bad people, because certain things don’t really affect them, we are all doomed. Because if we allow evil to flourish, eventually the “good” people will be affected too, or their children and grandchildren. It reminds me of the poem or whatever about people watching as evil came for this group of people and that one, and said and did nothing, then they came for them too. 

Thank you. I couldn't think of the right words but this is what I'm feeling.

I don’t feel like I am all that good with my words right now, but I appreciate that you get what I am trying to say. 

Regardless of what it may feel like to you right now, and even though most people on this board that have posted about recent events are also disgusted, I just want to remind you that you, your DH and your children are not alone. Even people whose lives don’t look like yours and your family’s, believe that people should mind their own fucking business and let other people be who they are and leave them tf alone as long as they aren’t harming anybody. 

I stand with you and your family, and I believe you stand with me and mine.

[raeoflyte]

Nov 7, 2024 20:41:11 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Nov 7, 2024 20:27:14 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Thank you. I couldn't think of the right words but this is what I'm feeling.

I don’t feel like I am all that good with my words right now, but I appreciate that you get what I am trying to say. 

Regardless of what it may feel like to you right now, and even though most people on this board that have posted about recent events are also disgusted, I just want to remind you that you, your DH and your children are not alone. Even people whose lives don’t look like yours and your family’s, believe that people should mind their own fucking business and let other people be who they are and leave them tf alone as long as they aren’t harming anybody. 

I stand with you and your family, and I believe you stand with me and mine.

100%

[movingforward]

I live in TX and know lots of Republicans. Most are not haters, which is why I find it so hard to understand why they support the politicians they do. It seems like they truly believe the economy, foreign relations, etc are better under Republicans. I am not trying to defend but rather just better understand their motivations.

Maybe I am just delusional but I do believe most people are good. Life is short and I just can't let the bad apples suck all my energy. If someone is truly a hateful person I cut them out of my life completely.

We will be okay...the younger generation has much more tolerance and understanding. At some point Republicans will realize the party must change or become irrelevant.

[raeoflyte]

Nov 7, 2024 21:36:01 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I live in TX and know lots of Republicans. Most are not haters, which is why I find it so hard to understand why they support the politicians they do. It seems like they truly believe the economy, foreign relations, etc are better under Republicans. I am not trying to defend but rather just better understand their motivations.

Maybe I am just delusional but I do believe most people are good. Life is short and I just can't let the bad apples suck all my energy. If someone is truly a hateful person I cut them out of my life completely.

We will be okay...the younger generation has much more tolerance and understanding. At some point Republicans will realize the party must change or become irrelevant.

I wish I had your optimism. I'm sure I've said it in the last day or so. But in my family the people having babies are republican haters. The liberals are child free by choice except me. Most of the next generation are going to be like their parents.

I don't think most people are bad, but I'm remembering that doesn't mean they're trustworthy. One of my grandmothers told me that being gay was an equal sin to being a pedophile. After she knew I was gay. She still loved me, and I still respected many things she accomplished in her life. But I didn't trust her.

[raeoflyte]

On a positive note, ds added this to his Christmas list.

www.etsy.com/listing/1761561637/control-guns-not-girls-quote-shirt

[tallguy]

Nov 7, 2024 20:25:09 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Nov 7, 2024 19:56:22 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Don't get me wrong I'm worried for my daughters, their friends both queer and female as well as my own.

I worry about my international friends.

But if someone wants to vote against her rights in exchange for cheaper gas go right on ahead more power to you.

I'm done reasoning with people.

I'll always be a safe haven for those I care about and it extends to my kids friends.

Everyone else? May they get what they bargained for.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense.

BUT….. am I can only speak for me….. because I DO care about my loved ones and even the little girl I wrote about, I can’t just retreat and stick my head in the sand and say I’m just going to do what I can for me and mine. That little girl is not “mine” but I care about her and others like her.

I understand people needing to retreat and regroup. I’ve never been in the military and know nothing about war and how to fight one, but my soul says that sometimes it is necessary to retreat and regroup when fighting a war. And that could just be a bunch of nonsense, even though it’s what I believe. But that doesn’t mean just giving up and staying in a bubble for forever, it means pulling back temporarily to take a minute to tend to what needs tended to, to regain strength to come back and fight some more. 

In my mind, if the good people don’t stand up against the bad people, because certain things don’t really affect them, we are all doomed. Because if we allow evil to flourish, eventually the “good” people will be affected too, or their children and grandchildren. It reminds me of the poem or whatever about people watching as evil came for this group of people and that one, and said and did nothing, then they came for them too. 

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

[happyhoix]

Nov 7, 2024 21:36:01 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I live in TX and know lots of Republicans. Most are not haters, which is why I find it so hard to understand why they support the politicians they do. It seems like they truly believe the economy, foreign relations, etc are better under Republicans. I am not trying to defend but rather just better understand their motivations.

Maybe I am just delusional but I do believe most people are good. Life is short and I just can't let the bad apples suck all my energy. If someone is truly a hateful person I cut them out of my life completely.

We will be okay...the younger generation has much more tolerance and understanding. At some point Republicans will realize the party must change or become irrelevant.

I live in a very nice area and most of my neighbors are very nice. They would help anyone who needs help. We had one local guy several years back who was writing nasty letters to the local paper about Biden. Then he wrote one saying friends and neighbors had told him his letters were disrespectful to the office and he apologized- then stopped writing them.

Trump has his ugly MAGA voters, including the ones who are currently sending intimidating letters to black people, telling them the slave catchers were going to pick them up to take them to work in the fields. Then there is the chunk of non MAGA voters like most of my neighbors who voted for him based strictly on the economy. Trump will have to prove, over the next two years, that he can improve things for the middle class. Past experience says he won’t be able to do it, and in 2026, those voters will want to turn to someone else. The Dems will need to do a better job selling their vision of a thriving middle class to win them back.

[azucena]

I've been giving this some thought and I think I'm landing at not giving to charities and instead having a slush fund to anonymously help people in my circle and a couple steps beyond that I can tell are helping themselves and that includes voting for their true best interest. Granted determining the voting part could be hard but most are so open on fb that it might not be as hard as one would think.

I have one friend in particular who is a bleeding heart and always finding people who need $X to fix their cars to keep getting to work, etc. I know her well enough to know that she vets these requests and more often than not a couple months later she posts about their success and how the small group fundraising helped so and so course correct.

This would mean helping folks like Pink or Rae whom I consider online friends and/or other POC and LGBTQ+ as I'm sure they will be most affected by this administration.

ETA put giramomma on the list - her post on the other thread just now breaks my heart

and there are too many other internet friends here to name. So many of you matter to me!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Honestly thinking about it last night while Trump is going to come in like a wrecking ball he has nothing to lose now.  He is immune to everything and doesn't have to listen to Republicans anymore and behave at least a little bit because he won and he can't get a third term (and even if he did again age is not on his side).

I wouldn't be surprised if the government ground to an absolute halt.  Not that this is a good thing either but I am starting to think that Trump running around after all his personal vendettas is not entirely a bad thing.  While he does that his MAGA insane clown posse will probably eat themselves alive again because you know it's only a matter of minutes before Johnson does something to piss them/Trump off and here we go again with a million votes for Speaker.

I think that is really our best bet.  It's going to hurt and hurt A LOT but I am also starting to think we need to rip off the damn band aid.  That is the only way the pendulum is going to swing back towards some semblance of sanity.  Let these people really see how insane Trump is and what "drain the swamp" is actually going to do for them as voters. 

I mean oh wow really I need Congress to funtion if I want my SS?  Nobody told me that!

Talking with a coworker where we think Democrats went wrong is they are still trying to raise the bar.  I am not saying they should resort to Trump's type of tactics but I do think they need to start getting their hands dirty.  They should have REALLY pounded on Trump throwing out that pandemic playbook and how that fucked up our economy the four years he was in.  They should have hammered home the bazillion votes for speaker and how that prevented Congress from doing it's job.  Pound home how much time and tax payer money was wasted with MTG's endless attempts to impeach Biden.   

They needed to go for the jungular on how incompetent Trump and the Republican party is it's not like they don't have tons of quotes and video they can use.

I get the tactics they decided to use and why but it clearly wasn't resonating with enough voters.   There are too many people willing to trade their rights for cheap gas.

We also talked about people cutting off their noses to spite their face.  He is Asian and was talking about how furious it made him that Trump kept claiming he loves Asian people.  Trump sicced people after them by constantly calling COVID "kung flu".  Hate crimes against the Asian population skyrocketed.  Yet he knows people in his community who voted for Trump!   He doesn't get it.

Same here. I threw up in my mouth and felt compelled to cover my drink every time Trump said he would protect women.  I know what he means by that it is a very old very effective racist dog whistle.

I don't need Trump to protect me from immigrants.  Statistically speaking immigrants commit LESS crimes than citizens.  I need "protection" from the white icels behind their computer who think they are owed my time/attention/body/my entire life because they are men and men are alpha.  WTF is Trump going to do about that?  NOTHING because he is one of them!

But there are women, especially white women, who think there is a horde of brown people out there just waiting to attack so they voted against their own best interests.  It is insane to me.

[gs11rmb]

I do think the Democratic party needs to face that the majority of people chose Donald Trump, a candidate that by any reasonable measure should not have been electable.  Why?  Over and over again, Trump's campaign kept running an ad (I'm in Atlanta so may have been different in other areas) about Harris being for they/them while Trump is for you. My husband and I thought that was such a weak strategy.  I mean, who cares?  Is that really the best argument they have?  Clearly, they're grasping at straws...

I've been listening/reading to various analysts and members of the Democratic party over the last couple of days state that it was in fact a very effective strategy.  That the view among the general public is Democratic policies are dominated by the hard-left, virtue-signaling types that are out of touch with the working class of all races.  

But, how does the Democratic party go about re-building those bridges with groups who feel that they've been abandoned without actually abandoning the most vulnerable members of our society?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 8, 2024 9:55:48 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I do think the Democratic party needs to face that the majority of people chose Donald Trump, a candidate that by any reasonable measure should not have been electable.  Why?  Over and over again, Trump's campaign kept running an ad (I'm in Atlanta so may have been different in other areas) about Harris being for they/them while Trump is for you. My husband and I thought that was such a weak strategy.  I mean, who cares?  Is that really the best argument they have?  Clearly, they're grasping at straws...

I've been listening/reading to various analysts and members of the Democratic party over the last couple of days state that it was in fact a very effective strategy.  That the view among the general public is Democratic policies are dominated by the hard-left, virtue-signaling types that are out of touch with the working class of all races.  

But, how does the Democratic party go about re-building those bridges with groups who feel that they've been abandoned without actually abandoning the most vulnerable members of our society?

I really think they need to work with people who deprogram people who used to be in cults and work to deprogram people who have been radicalized. We are beyond facts, we are beyond people seeing what is in front of their own eyes.  Being reasonable and logical is no longer going to work.

Until we hit critical mass where the rich people who actually control the world are being impacted by the crazy things aren't going to change.  That's how it has been throughout history.  It's going to happen there is no way things can keep going how they are forever.  Either something will tank their stocks so they will decide to jump ship or those below them finally rise up and shed blood.  The French Revolution wasn't born in a day.

[lurkyloo]

I think it does come down to Republicans will stop at nothing while Democrats are still playing by the rules.  I mean, Musk bought and gutted Twitter and shaped it into a propaganda machine.  At what 40B that’s a pretty cheap price to pay to buy the US election. There is Russian and Chinese influence all over, they are only too happy to manipulate social media.  I’m still pretty grossed out that so many people fell for it.

I’m okay with helping local charities still (see previous comments about deep blue area) but I never got around to e.g. contributing to Helene cleanup efforts and at this point I’m okay with that.  I don’t need to save people from themselves when they’re determined to go hurtling over the cliff    I need to rethink giving strategies for sure.

[grumpyhermit]

Nov 8, 2024 9:55:48 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I do think the Democratic party needs to face that the majority of people chose Donald Trump, a candidate that by any reasonable measure should not have been electable.  Why?  Over and over again, Trump's campaign kept running an ad (I'm in Atlanta so may have been different in other areas) about Harris being for they/them while Trump is for you. My husband and I thought that was such a weak strategy.  I mean, who cares?  Is that really the best argument they have?  Clearly, they're grasping at straws...

I've been listening/reading to various analysts and members of the Democratic party over the last couple of days state that it was in fact a very effective strategy.  That the view among the general public is Democratic policies are dominated by the hard-left, virtue-signaling types that are out of touch with the working class of all races.  

But, how does the Democratic party go about re-building those bridges with groups who feel that they've been abandoned without actually abandoning the most vulnerable members of our society?

They don't. I am so sick of the economic anxiety arguments for why people vote republican. If you are going to vote for the republicans based on demonstrable lies, false promises, and self interest I don't think you are a voter that will ever be swayed by level headed policy facts.

The Democratic party is NOT nominated by left wing strategies. All this tells me is that the average working class voter is low information. To try to get those folks into the fold, the Democratic establishment will swing further right, which will mean they have to abandon the people on the fringes.

I don't think this will be a winning strategy, as they have been doing it already, and it is not getting them the gains they think it will. Because republicans are fine with lying, and nobody seems to really press them on it. All during the campaign when Trump was rattling on about how tariffs will fix everything it was crickets. Not a bloody DAY later, and CNN is running stories about , well actually tariffs will be really bad.

I am frankly done with the party. I will continue to vote for harm reduction, which will most likely mean I continue to vote a straight (or mostly straight) Democratic ticket, but that's more a result of our broken two party system, not because I align with where I think they are headed.

It is clear to me, after 2024, that voting is not the way. To preserve my own sanity, I will be pulling back from the outrage news cycle, and focusing on actions I can actually take. He is going to do what he will do, and the democratic party will continue to 1) do little to nothing but bemoan it and fund raise off it or 2) attempt to look bipartisan to get these mythical swing voters, and work with them.

I can't really do anything about that, but I can look for opportunities to help and support people in my local communities, because it's going to get grim. I have never been much of a joiner, but I need to change that and figure out where it makes sense to volunteer. There are a lot of vulnerable people out there, and they are about to get fed to the wolves.

[teen persuasion]

Nov 8, 2024 9:55:48 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I do think the Democratic party needs to face that the majority of people chose Donald Trump, a candidate that by any reasonable measure should not have been electable.  Why?  Over and over again, Trump's campaign kept running an ad (I'm in Atlanta so may have been different in other areas) about Harris being for they/them while Trump is for you. My husband and I thought that was such a weak strategy.  I mean, who cares?  Is that really the best argument they have?  Clearly, they're grasping at straws...

I've been listening/reading to various analysts and members of the Democratic party over the last couple of days state that it was in fact a very effective strategy.  That the view among the general public is Democratic policies are dominated by the hard-left, virtue-signaling types that are out of touch with the working class of all races.  

But, how does the Democratic party go about re-building those bridges with groups who feel that they've been abandoned without actually abandoning the most vulnerable members of our society?

I believe there is a fundamental difference between how people that are right or left leaning think. Each side interprets words and phrases differently based on inherent biases. We are literally speaking different languages, even though they both appear to be English. 

I read something recently, I wish I could recall the source, but it said that people who lean right are inherently fearful - and it colors their world view. They feel the need to protect what they have, because it might be taken away. Other people, especially people not like me, want my stuff, and I have to fight to keep it. Dog eat dog. Sum zero game - more for others means less for me, that's bad.
The flip side, left leaning mindset, was more group conscious - if there are some in the group who don't have enough they want to fix the imbalance so that all can at least have enough.