Poverty and the roll of the dice

[Opti]

Sept 2, 2024 14:52:57 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2024 14:28:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

That sounds like middle class into bottom upper middle class. The middle class is often defined very broadly with lower, middle, and upper portions. Upper middle class is basically people who are starter rich and feel sorry for themselves. 

I do not like your belief in a working class as the majority of people qualifying for social programs are "working class". The majority work at least one FT job. Many work a FT and PT job if they have kids or increasing if you live somewhere like NJ as a single person not living with someone else. 


I would suggest if you haven't already, look into how your own state defines the levels. A good way to see this is to look at affordable housing websites or see what the qualifications are for SNAP and other social programs. The amount of slavery in the US is increasing. Most of it is unseen like prostitution rings, scam calling centers, and farmers keeping workers on the property and unable to leave. 

But for those not in those situations but slightly above, DeSantis has decided AG workers in his state are not allowed shade or water breaks while picking crops in Florida. So now more people can die in their 20s and low 30s from dehydration, kidney failure etc. But scgal isn't great that DeSantis is catering to the rich farmers or AG coprs and hastening Florida into AG conditions in Africa?

It's unfactual nonsense comments like this that help keep parties separated. He did not say workers are not allowed shade or breaks. He merely signed a bill stating the govt will not support it. There is a big big difference. 

He signed it so a county could not require it to be true. Do your research.
Its shades of passing laws to not allow poor people waiting in line to vote to have water brought to them.

[Opti]

Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed a law blocking municipalities from enacting ordinances that would provide crucial heat protections for workers.

This means no mandatory shade, water, or rest breaks, despite Torres witnessing a coworker's death from heatstroke and another’s emergency hospitalization due to the relentless sun.

This URL is a slideshow scgal. Sometimes what divides us is some of us knowing what is happening versus the RW followers believing they know what is going on. Intentional ignorance isn't an excuse.

DeSantis Faces Major Backlash Over Law Denying Florida Outdoor Workers Shade, Water, and Breaks
Story by Georgia Mckoy • 3mo

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/desantis-faces-major-backlash-over-law-denying-florida-outdoor-workers-shade-water-and-breaks/ss-BB1mCVd7#image=2

The pushback against heat safety measures comes directly from industry lobbyists.

Text messages revealed by Orlando Weekly show the intense lobbying efforts to pass the heat exemption bill.



"HEAT cannot die. The entire business community is in lock step on this. Thank you for your attention to this concern." wrote Carol Bowen, a lobbyist, emphasizing the business community's unified stance against heat protections.

On April 11, under their influence, DeSantis signed a bill that also cuts back child labor protections but includes a controversial ban on local heat safety measures.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce exerted heavy political pressure, warning lawmakers that their votes on the bill would be "double-weighted."

[Opti]

www.ishn.com/articles/114191-2024s-dirty-dozen-unsafe-employers-revealed

Costa Farms: In 2021, a worker dies from heat exhaustion at a Costa Farms nursery in Miami. Two years later, company executives lobby against a Miami-Dade heat safety ordinance. In 2024, the Florida legislature bans all local heat protections.

[Opti]

Sept 2, 2024 14:44:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 2, 2024 14:28:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

That sounds like middle class into bottom upper middle class. The middle class is often defined very broadly with lower, middle, and upper portions. Upper middle class is basically people who are starter rich and feel sorry for themselves. 

I do not like your belief in a working class as the majority of people qualifying for social programs are "working class". The majority work at least one FT job. Many work a FT and PT job if they have kids or increasing if you live somewhere like NJ as a single person not living with someone else. 


I would suggest if you haven't already, look into how your own state defines the levels. A good way to see this is to look at affordable housing websites or see what the qualifications are for SNAP and other social programs. The amount of slavery in the US is increasing. Most of it is unseen like prostitution rings, scam calling centers, and farmers keeping workers on the property and unable to leave. 

But for those not in those situations but slightly above, DeSantis has decided AG workers in his state are not allowed shade or water breaks while picking crops in Florida. So now more people can die in their 20s and low 30s from dehydration, kidney failure etc. But scgal isn't great that DeSantis is catering to the rich farmers or AG coprs and hastening Florida into AG conditions in Africa?

I prefer sociological studies of class to governmental definitions. There is a psychological reason for government to make everyone "middle-class." It helps tap down the type of class uprising we started to see in the thirties.

Its also the reason politicians get lazy and sell to the middle class because some definitions have them at 60% of the electorate or higher. Sociological studies are probably very interesting, but tax law and affordable housing definitions rule actual people's lives. That's why I personally find them more important.

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2024 16:42:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sept 2, 2024 14:44:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I prefer sociological studies of class to governmental definitions. There is a psychological reason for government to make everyone "middle-class." It helps tap down the type of class uprising we started to see in the thirties.

Its also the reason politicians get lazy and sell to the middle class because some definitions have them at 60% of the electorate or higher. Sociological studies are probably very interesting, but tax law and affordable housing definitions rule actual people's lives. That's why I personally find them more important.

Politicians sell to the "middle-class" because most people in the American electorate self-identify as middle-class. Selling to a working class that too many Americans have been taught are communists is a losing proposition.

I am not sure in what manner tax law defines social classes. It has income levels that determine rates and eligibility estimates. But I don't recall ever seeing it say "If you are middle-class, then your rate is 'X'". I would assume affordable housing rules are also based on dollar amounts, not social class.

And, FWIW, social class is just a sociological constuct with no actual physical existence in the real world. It is a typical human attempt to make understand8ng a complex world simpler.

[Opti]

I would assume affordable housing rules are also based on dollar amounts, not social class.

If you qualify for affordable housing, you know you are not middle class. Simple.

Selling to a working class that too many Americans have been taught are communists is a losing proposition.

Did I miss the memo where front line cashiers, fast food workers who aren't management or gas station attendants became communists?

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2024 17:17:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

I would assume affordable housing rules are also based on dollar amounts, not social class.

If you qualify for affordable housing, you know you are not middle class. Simple.

Selling to a working class that too many Americans have been taught are communists is a losing proposition.

Did I miss the memo where front line cashiers, fast food workers who aren't management or gas station attendants became communists?

I don't know what you have or haven't missed. I know I have been fed a constant diet of, "We are all middle-class, only the commies talk about working-class". I chewed on it a bit and spit it out. Those people you reference are good examples to me of working-class Americans, although others may consider them lower-lower-middle-class.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 2, 2024 15:10:11 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Depending on business to do the right thing is naive. As has been shown throughout history, starting with Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle, LoveCreek, the fouling of air and water in the name of profits, the desecration of land by radioactive pollution, and the abuses in the meat packing industries, corporations will do what maximizes profits. They only care about difficult to replace employees. They employ immigrants in the fields, and they are expendable. Regulations are required so a minimal safety standard is maintained. By abdicating his responsibility, DiSantis proves he does not care

the profit motive as a central guiding principle pits profit over people.  every time.

[Opti]

Sept 2, 2024 17:31:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 2, 2024 17:17:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

If you qualify for affordable housing, you know you are not middle class. Simple.



Did I miss the memo where front line cashiers, fast food workers who aren't management or gas station attendants became communists?

I don't know what you have or haven't missed. I know I have been fed a constant diet of, "We are all middle-class, only the commies talk about working-class". I chewed on it a bit and spit it out. Those people you reference are good examples to me of working-class Americans, although others may consider them lower-lower-middle-class.

Ah. We have vastly different experiences then. I have never heard that until now. Regarding the bolded, given all the price increases since Covid, all those people are in the underfunded with me. (At least in NJ and similar places) Many of them make less than me and depending on the phase of the moon it seems I qualify for section 8 or very low-income housing. Horrible place to be and crappy availability as well. 

Although I understand in some rich areas of NJ gas station attendants get tipped so those peeps might be holding on. Is there a lot of talk about commies by you? Thankfully its not something I hear. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2024 22:08:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sept 2, 2024 17:31:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I don't know what you have or haven't missed. I know I have been fed a constant diet of, "We are all middle-class, only the commies talk about working-class". I chewed on it a bit and spit it out. Those people you reference are good examples to me of working-class Americans, although others may consider them lower-lower-middle-class.

Ah. We have vastly different experiences then. I have never heard that until now. Regarding the bolded, given all the price increases since Covid, all those people are in the underfunded with me. (At least in NJ and similar places) Many of them make less than me and depending on the phase of the moon it seems I qualify for section 8 or very low-income housing. Horrible place to be and crappy availability as well. 

Although I understand in some rich areas of NJ gas station attendants get tipped so those peeps might be holding on. Is there a lot of talk about commies by you? Thankfully its not something I hear. 

I grew up in Idaho during the John Bi4ch Society era. I currently live in the red side of Washington state. Also:

Tech billionaire Elon Musk, a supporter of former President Donald Trump, on Monday posted a fake image of what appears to be Vice President Kamala Harris dressed in a red communist uniform.

“Kamala vows to be a communist dictator on day one. Can you believe she wears that outfit!?” Musk posted on X, the social media platform he owns, in response to the vice president’s post warning about Trump being a “dictator on day one.”

Elon Musk posts fake image of Harris in communist uniform

[mollyc]

Well, I did say some degree of middle. I don’t have any issues with working class existing between poor and middle class. That is how I describe myself.

My parents definitely considered themselves working class when they were renters, owned one second-hand car at a time and, if my mom was working, she walked or took a bus. I don’t know that they did when things were better.

The complicated thing about how we define working/middle class is that my parents had a variation of everything you said your girlfriend’s family had shortly after they were down to 3 kids. Just maybe with more debt attached. They had a 3 bedroom house with a fourth bedroom in the basement. They had a motor home and a boat. They had two vehicles that they bought brand new. Granted mom’s was a Mazda GLC but they bought more for the size and front wheel drive than the price. We didn’t fly for vacations but that had more to do with the fact that, if we didn’t go to a lake, we were travelling through the Western Provinces visiting family (every single summer).

Local cost of living vs wages can make a definition of working class/middle class difficult. But if you pretty much have everything that everyone around you has, you are probably going to identify the same way everyone else does. I don’t think many people in the neighborhood thought of themselves as working class. I would say they were largely working class but they wouldn’t necessarily agree.

[Opti]

Sept 2, 2024 22:28:23 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 2, 2024 22:08:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Ah. We have vastly different experiences then. I have never heard that until now. Regarding the bolded, given all the price increases since Covid, all those people are in the underfunded with me. (At least in NJ and similar places) Many of them make less than me and depending on the phase of the moon it seems I qualify for section 8 or very low-income housing. Horrible place to be and crappy availability as well. 

Although I understand in some rich areas of NJ gas station attendants get tipped so those peeps might be holding on. Is there a lot of talk about commies by you? Thankfully its not something I hear. 

I grew up in Idaho during the John Bi4ch Society era. I currently live in the red side of Washington state. Also:

Tech billionaire Elon Musk, a supporter of former President Donald Trump, on Monday posted a fake image of what appears to be Vice President Kamala Harris dressed in a red communist uniform.

“Kamala vows to be a communist dictator on day one. Can you believe she wears that outfit!?” Musk posted on X, the social media platform he owns, in response to the vice president’s post warning about Trump being a “dictator on day one.”

Elon Musk posts fake image of Harris in communist uniform

Idaho into the red part of WA state. Interesting journey. Hopefully the potatoes were at least very good. 

Yeah Elon has gone full on deranged and heavy misinformation. I think I read a country, maybe Brazil, has totally shutdown X inside the country because of misinformation. I guess Trump and Elon can't deal with the truth that Trump does want to be a dictator. 

[scgal]

Sept 2, 2024 15:49:27 GMT -5 Opti said:

Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed a law blocking municipalities from enacting ordinances that would provide crucial heat protections for workers.

This means no mandatory shade, water, or rest breaks, despite Torres witnessing a coworker's death from heatstroke and another’s emergency hospitalization due to the relentless sun.

This URL is a slideshow scgal. Sometimes what divides us is some of us knowing what is happening versus the RW followers believing they know what is going on. Intentional ignorance isn't an excuse.

DeSantis Faces Major Backlash Over Law Denying Florida Outdoor Workers Shade, Water, and Breaks
Story by Georgia Mckoy • 3mo

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/desantis-faces-major-backlash-over-law-denying-florida-outdoor-workers-shade-water-and-breaks/ss-BB1mCVd7#image=2

The pushback against heat safety measures comes directly from industry lobbyists.

Text messages revealed by Orlando Weekly show the intense lobbying efforts to pass the heat exemption bill.



"HEAT cannot die. The entire business community is in lock step on this. Thank you for your attention to this concern." wrote Carol Bowen, a lobbyist, emphasizing the business community's unified stance against heat protections.

On April 11, under their influence, DeSantis signed a bill that also cuts back child labor protections but includes a controversial ban on local heat safety measures.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce exerted heavy political pressure, warning lawmakers that their votes on the bill would be "double-weighted."

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

[busymom]

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2024 15:49:27 GMT -5 Opti said:

Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed a law blocking municipalities from enacting ordinances that would provide crucial heat protections for workers.

This means no mandatory shade, water, or rest breaks, despite Torres witnessing a coworker's death from heatstroke and another’s emergency hospitalization due to the relentless sun.

This URL is a slideshow scgal. Sometimes what divides us is some of us knowing what is happening versus the RW followers believing they know what is going on. Intentional ignorance isn't an excuse.

DeSantis Faces Major Backlash Over Law Denying Florida Outdoor Workers Shade, Water, and Breaks
Story by Georgia Mckoy • 3mo

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/desantis-faces-major-backlash-over-law-denying-florida-outdoor-workers-shade-water-and-breaks/ss-BB1mCVd7#image=2

The pushback against heat safety measures comes directly from industry lobbyists.

Text messages revealed by Orlando Weekly show the intense lobbying efforts to pass the heat exemption bill.



"HEAT cannot die. The entire business community is in lock step on this. Thank you for your attention to this concern." wrote Carol Bowen, a lobbyist, emphasizing the business community's unified stance against heat protections.

On April 11, under their influence, DeSantis signed a bill that also cuts back child labor protections but includes a controversial ban on local heat safety measures.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce exerted heavy political pressure, warning lawmakers that their votes on the bill would be "double-weighted."

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

      So going back to the old days where workers died on the job is ok with you?!?  I thought the GOP claimed to be the party of Christianity, you know, "love thy neighbor".  Apparently not.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2024 15:49:27 GMT -5 Opti said:

Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed a law blocking municipalities from enacting ordinances that would provide crucial heat protections for workers.

This means no mandatory shade, water, or rest breaks, despite Torres witnessing a coworker's death from heatstroke and another’s emergency hospitalization due to the relentless sun.

This URL is a slideshow scgal. Sometimes what divides us is some of us knowing what is happening versus the RW followers believing they know what is going on. Intentional ignorance isn't an excuse.

DeSantis Faces Major Backlash Over Law Denying Florida Outdoor Workers Shade, Water, and Breaks
Story by Georgia Mckoy • 3mo

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/desantis-faces-major-backlash-over-law-denying-florida-outdoor-workers-shade-water-and-breaks/ss-BB1mCVd7#image=2

The pushback against heat safety measures comes directly from industry lobbyists.

Text messages revealed by Orlando Weekly show the intense lobbying efforts to pass the heat exemption bill.



"HEAT cannot die. The entire business community is in lock step on this. Thank you for your attention to this concern." wrote Carol Bowen, a lobbyist, emphasizing the business community's unified stance against heat protections.

On April 11, under their influence, DeSantis signed a bill that also cuts back child labor protections but includes a controversial ban on local heat safety measures.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce exerted heavy political pressure, warning lawmakers that their votes on the bill would be "double-weighted."

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

Do you care about clean air and clean water. Because complying with those regulations costs them money. By your logic we shouldn’t have regulations requiring them to not foul our environment either. Conservatives really want to take us back to the 19th century

[scgal]

Sept 3, 2024 9:04:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

Do you care about clean air and clean water. Because complying with those regulations costs them money. By your logic we shouldn’t have regulations requiring them to not foul our environment either. Conservatives really want to take us back to the 19th century

I'd say take away all govt regulations and just let a Republicans set new ones. 

[scgal]

Sept 3, 2024 8:14:04 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

      So going back to the old days where workers died on the job is ok with you?!?  I thought the GOP claimed to be the party of Christianity, you know, "love thy neighbor".  Apparently not.

Another false comparison.

[swamp]

Sept 1, 2024 23:55:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 1, 2024 22:30:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

But what are those jobs, because the world does not stay static, many become replaceable or less desirable jobs as time goes on.
Plus, there are ebbs and flows in hiring and demand for US based employees. For example, I found a nice, interesting job I could probably do now for Paramount+ but it is based in Hungary to support non-US TV. 

The trades, plumbing or electrician for examples, are great choices. Teaching is solid. Pharmacist gives you great options. "Nice, interesting" is probably something to avoid.

Unfortunately, if a middle class kid whose parents don't have money to send them to college, they will start life with at least $200,000 in student loans.  

It's a 6 year program now.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 3, 2024 10:13:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 3, 2024 9:04:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Do you care about clean air and clean water. Because complying with those regulations costs them money. By your logic we shouldn’t have regulations requiring them to not foul our environment either. Conservatives really want to take us back to the 19th century

I'd say take away all govt regulations and just let a Republicans set new ones. 

The Republicans can't even pick a speaker.  They're more at war with themselves than they are against the democrats.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 3, 2024 10:13:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 3, 2024 9:04:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Do you care about clean air and clean water. Because complying with those regulations costs them money. By your logic we shouldn’t have regulations requiring them to not foul our environment either. Conservatives really want to take us back to the 19th century

I'd say take away all govt regulations and just let a Republicans set new ones. 

You just keep getting more ridiculous. I continue to hope you are trolling us, because someone who can use the internet can’t be this stupid, but you tell us you are not a troll. So, therefore…

[swamp]

Sept 3, 2024 10:13:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 3, 2024 9:04:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Do you care about clean air and clean water. Because complying with those regulations costs them money. By your logic we shouldn’t have regulations requiring them to not foul our environment either. Conservatives really want to take us back to the 19th century

I'd say take away all govt regulations and just let a Republicans set new ones. 

Seriously, have you ever read The Jungle? 

[dondubble]

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2024 10:55:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 3, 2024 10:13:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

I'd say take away all govt regulations and just let a Republicans set new ones. 

Seriously, have you ever read The Jungle? 

I think it was required reading for me in school. I do not remember when. I am horrified though that some of those conditions seem to be coming back for some workers. 

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2024 15:49:27 GMT -5 Opti said:

Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed a law blocking municipalities from enacting ordinances that would provide crucial heat protections for workers.

This means no mandatory shade, water, or rest breaks, despite Torres witnessing a coworker's death from heatstroke and another’s emergency hospitalization due to the relentless sun.

This URL is a slideshow scgal. Sometimes what divides us is some of us knowing what is happening versus the RW followers believing they know what is going on. Intentional ignorance isn't an excuse.

DeSantis Faces Major Backlash Over Law Denying Florida Outdoor Workers Shade, Water, and Breaks
Story by Georgia Mckoy • 3mo

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/desantis-faces-major-backlash-over-law-denying-florida-outdoor-workers-shade-water-and-breaks/ss-BB1mCVd7#image=2

The pushback against heat safety measures comes directly from industry lobbyists.

Text messages revealed by Orlando Weekly show the intense lobbying efforts to pass the heat exemption bill.



"HEAT cannot die. The entire business community is in lock step on this. Thank you for your attention to this concern." wrote Carol Bowen, a lobbyist, emphasizing the business community's unified stance against heat protections.

On April 11, under their influence, DeSantis signed a bill that also cuts back child labor protections but includes a controversial ban on local heat safety measures.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce exerted heavy political pressure, warning lawmakers that their votes on the bill would be "double-weighted."

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

I understand what you are saying, but the reality is Costa Farms among others want this, so they have the option to work their workers to death or into severe medical conditions. Employers should be forced to do things they do not want if it is for the greater good. 

Any employer who resists giving workers shade and bathroom breaks while picking fruits and vegetables is a bad employer. Crap like this including pay is what started the Farmer Workers of America union many years ago. If America really wants to stay a good country, stuff like this should not happen and should be shot down with prejudice.

ETA - I wish you would acknowledge the only reason the bill exists is to give legal cover to employers who want to deny their workers breaks and shade. And that by signing it, DeSantis either agrees with this exploitation or doesn't have the cojones to not sign it and protect some Florida workers.

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2024 10:36:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 1, 2024 23:55:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The trades, plumbing or electrician for examples, are great choices. Teaching is solid. Pharmacist gives you great options. "Nice, interesting" is probably something to avoid.

Unfortunately, if a middle class kid whose parents don't have money to send them to college, they will start life with at least $200,000 in student loans.  

It's a 6 year program now.  

It was when I went to school as well. I think you'd need really good scholarships now to even get a crack at it unless your parents are wealthy.

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2024 10:14:24 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 3, 2024 8:14:04 GMT -5 busymom said:

      So going back to the old days where workers died on the job is ok with you?!?  I thought the GOP claimed to be the party of Christianity, you know, "love thy neighbor".  Apparently not.

Another false comparison.

You are mistaken. Do you remember any of the parables told in the Bible about workers in the field? Pay? How to treat poor people who walk the fields after harvest? This law is the opposite of WWJD. 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 2, 2024 15:49:27 GMT -5 Opti said:

Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed a law blocking municipalities from enacting ordinances that would provide crucial heat protections for workers.

This means no mandatory shade, water, or rest breaks, despite Torres witnessing a coworker's death from heatstroke and another’s emergency hospitalization due to the relentless sun.

This URL is a slideshow scgal. Sometimes what divides us is some of us knowing what is happening versus the RW followers believing they know what is going on. Intentional ignorance isn't an excuse.

DeSantis Faces Major Backlash Over Law Denying Florida Outdoor Workers Shade, Water, and Breaks
Story by Georgia Mckoy • 3mo

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/desantis-faces-major-backlash-over-law-denying-florida-outdoor-workers-shade-water-and-breaks/ss-BB1mCVd7#image=2

The pushback against heat safety measures comes directly from industry lobbyists.

Text messages revealed by Orlando Weekly show the intense lobbying efforts to pass the heat exemption bill.



"HEAT cannot die. The entire business community is in lock step on this. Thank you for your attention to this concern." wrote Carol Bowen, a lobbyist, emphasizing the business community's unified stance against heat protections.

On April 11, under their influence, DeSantis signed a bill that also cuts back child labor protections but includes a controversial ban on local heat safety measures.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce exerted heavy political pressure, warning lawmakers that their votes on the bill would be "double-weighted."

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

we could not disagree more on this.

the state should ensure that businesses are not INTENTIONALLY making our lives less safe in order to fatten profits.  otherwise, corporations will treat such hazards as "exigent circumstances", and make our world a hellscape to maximize returns.  

if the government is not there to ensure the safety of its citizens, what is it there for?  it seems like this is the LOWEST bar a government should clear.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 3, 2024 9:04:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 3, 2024 7:29:04 GMT -5 scgal said:

Again, signing a bill saying the farms do not have to give workers shade or water breaks is not denying it. It is really simple. Companies, employers etc shouldn't be forced to do anything that will hurt their bottom line. Would it be in their best interest probably but they shouldn't be forced to either. This is why I hate and I mean I loath unions they are nothing but a parasite to a business.

Do you care about clean air and clean water. Because complying with those regulations costs them money. By your logic we shouldn’t have regulations requiring them to not foul our environment either. Conservatives really want to take us back to the 19th century

Project 1861

[busymom]

Sept 3, 2024 10:14:24 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 3, 2024 8:14:04 GMT -5 busymom said:

      So going back to the old days where workers died on the job is ok with you?!?  I thought the GOP claimed to be the party of Christianity, you know, "love thy neighbor".  Apparently not.

Another false comparison.

     Ok, let's try this.  Are you saying human life has no value once it is born?  So, living & breathing employees have no right to stay hydrated & not die of, or suffer from heat exhaustion?  Are humans only pawns of their corporate "masters"?  

[djAdvocate]

i really would like to know what purpose government is there to serve, if not for the safety and security of its citizenry. i just can't fathom a more minimal standard.

but i am not very bright. so maybe someone can tell me.