ltdan
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Post by ltdan on Apr 18, 2011 7:40:16 GMT -5
Hi All. Long time lurker, first time poster.
Here's the short, short version. I'm 32 and live in the burbs. Soon to be ex has already moved out to the city. Got a verbal agreement from her on how to split the assets, so this *should* be a somewhat painless divorce - going to do the 'no fault' divorce, as we have no kids. Hopefully i won't have to use the lawyer too much, but you never know.
I already sold my car and gave her the $ from that, as well as the mutual funds. I'll get to keep the house and 401k, but will owe her a somewhat sizeable chunk of change. This probably sounds like a sweet deal, and I guess it is. But I was gainfully employed throughout our marriage, while she was in school collecting college degrees.
Any advice to offer, or things to look out for? I'm wondering if all divorces (so far) can go this smoothly...
Flame away
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 7:45:11 GMT -5
This is a hard one. I would say don't give her any money until things are in writing... not just verbal, BUT... it can actually work against you that you were supporting her... if this got ugly, or she pushed, there is a chance she could get alimony in addition to settlement... and she is generally entitled to half of income/equity during the marriage (not sure what state? that can impact this) ... and soooo... if she is willing to settle out, then it might be in your favor... but i'd keep detailed records/ receipts of money/assets you give to her...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 7:50:26 GMT -5
Usually, for Dual Incomes couples, after a divorce you would expect a drop in lifestyle but since you were a one income family and you were the one making the money that might not be a problem for you.
Also to keep in mind: the true value of your 401k is not what you see in your statements. So before cutting her a check for half of it, remember you did not pay taxes on it yet: so worth 15-25% less depending on the tax bracket you are in.
Last: she might get alimony if she decides to fight you for it.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Apr 18, 2011 7:51:47 GMT -5
First stop giving her anything. Get an attorney as soon as possible. She already has one. You really do not know a woman till you get her in court. Good luck!
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Apr 18, 2011 7:52:28 GMT -5
You need to utilize your attorney to draw up a property settlement agreement and have her sign it. This will outline the distribution of funds and property and then become a part of your final decree (exact terms and process will depend on what state you're in).
The divorce itself may be no-fault but I knew a girl way back when whose parents were still fighting over property more than 5 years after the divorce was final and both had remarried. You'd be better off to front the money for a lawyer and get it all hammered out now than risk years of {increased} fees if she decides in a couple years she wants more.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 18, 2011 8:07:22 GMT -5
How is the house titled? What state are you in? How long have you been married? Is your STBX employed? Have her student loans entered repayment yet?
It's not terribly clear from what you have written why you'll be owing her a "sizable chunk of change". Did she bring assets into the marriage or receive wedding presents that became the house downpayment, the car, or the mutual funds that you have mentioned?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 8:09:20 GMT -5
I had a smooth divorce. We worked out all the details between ourselves.
He did pay my share of the house and retirement in untaxed $$$. That was all we had. So in retrospect I should have asked for more. Lol.
Only you know your ex and who wants out the most. But you should be seeing a lawyer even if you are sharing one just to get this stuff down on paper.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 8:13:45 GMT -5
Yes, i do think you should be getting legal advice. Yep...I'm sure you've heard the saying about why divorce lawyers are so expensive: They are worth it!
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Apr 18, 2011 8:27:52 GMT -5
Each divorce is different, I paid $600 for mine, with the lawyer. I did not ask for anything but custody and the pickup (he could have the jeep and the car) and gave the house to the ex (he later gave it back when he decided he would never live back in our hometown). In the end, I allowed myself to get screwed on a lot of things just to get it over with (computer glitch erased daycare, at over $4k a year, and medical premiums that I paid to cover our son from the calculated child support. Had I got it fixed I could get AT LEAST another $300 a month in child support, but I chose to just get it over with instead of having to restart the process and try to get him back in town for more paperwork). My sister on the otherhand, she used the lawyer as a therapist ($$$$) and would not let his assistant do the stuff she was qualified to do (saving $$$) but wanted the lawyer to do every little thing ($$$$). She also tried to go back on a lot of stuff and her ex had to deal with her crap for a long time after the divorce.
Good luck!
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 18, 2011 8:29:22 GMT -5
First, I'm with the posters who said don't give her anything more until you've had competent legal advice. She COULD claim that what you've already given her was a gift and not part of a divorce settlement.
Find a competent divorce lawyer and do exactly what they tell you.
Yes, it is possible to have a civil divorce, but it is also possible for a divorce to start out amicably and then turn acrimonious, so you need to proceed with caution.
Ask family and friends for a referral. When my son needed a good divorce attorney, I called the attorney who prepared our wills for a referral. He gave me the names of several very good lawyers. That made a huge difference.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 18, 2011 8:40:38 GMT -5
401(k)'s are divided after a divorce via a Qualified Domestic Relations Order (QDRO). Do not give her cash.
You're on the right page, and yes, some divorces go that smoothly. At least go for a consult with an attorney to see if there are any things you need to watch out for.
I really don't think he has to worry about the court seeing the property settlement so far as a gift, or maybe the judge I practice in front of doesn't tolerate garbage. If I made that claim in front of her, she'd tear me a new asshole faster than I knew what happened.
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jd2005
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Post by jd2005 on Apr 18, 2011 8:49:45 GMT -5
I have been divorced for a little less than a year. Your situation sounds much like mine, but the fall out keeps coming. Today I got a bill for almost $1k for a doctor's visit my ex went to after she left me but before the divorce went final. Good times!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 8:51:27 GMT -5
No flames here- been there, done that. I agree with the others about getting a lawyer. My Ex and I had a nasty divorce with a house and a kid involved but with our attorneys we put together a Property Settlement which we brought to the judge. He granted the divorce. My Ex's attorney made the intelligent observation that in a good settlement, each walks out thinking they could have done a little better!
If she was "collecting degrees", it sounds as if you were supporting her through that, and that should be factored into the settlement. You significantly increased her future income potential through that support so you should not come to the guilt-ridden conclusion that you owe her half of anything.
Good luck and keep us posted!
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ltdan
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Post by ltdan on Apr 18, 2011 9:06:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice all. Just got in contact with a lawyer, so I should be on my way. And for some reason it's been hammered into me that she 'deserves' half of what 'we' owe. I'm working on changing that. In realistic terms, I've been the sole breadwinner throughout our 7 year marriage. She's been sporadically employed, but never really contributed to the big expenses (mortgage, car loans, etc.) She just started a PhD program, so yes, her future career should be pretty good. I'm not sure if she can actually hold down a job for a long period of time, but that's not really my problem anymore.
I think the first major sign that our marriage was doomed was when she gave away our 3 year old dog, whom we had as a pup. And then would only stick with a job for < 6 months. Just glad to be ending this while I still have my health and 1/2 of my sanity!
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 18, 2011 9:16:13 GMT -5
"And for some reason it's been hammered into me that she 'deserves' half of what 'we' owe. I'm working on changing that."
If you live in a community property state, this is true. Glad to hear that you've contacted a lawyer. Best of luck to you.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 18, 2011 9:19:20 GMT -5
"And for some reason it's been hammered into me that she 'deserves' half of what 'we' owe. I'm working on changing that." If you live in a community property state, this is true. Glad to hear that you've contacted a lawyer. Best of luck to you. You should be happy she wants to take half the debt.
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kdamron
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Post by kdamron on Apr 18, 2011 9:19:44 GMT -5
Good luck to you! Amiabile or not divorce is hard. My X and I divided our things ourselves and stuck with our original agreement. Neither tried to screw the other and got through it with a friendship intact. Some marriages just aren't meant to be.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Apr 18, 2011 9:29:34 GMT -5
"If she was "collecting degrees", it sounds as if you were supporting her through that, and that should be factored into the settlement. You significantly increased her future income potential through that support so you should not come to the guilt-ridden conclusion that you owe her half of anything."
Ditto this. If things get ugly, you could argue you should have a claim on her future earnings since you supported her through her schooling. That said, I divorced my XH in my 20's and did it all with paperwork from the courthouse. Just cost me the filing fee. It doesn't HAVE to get ugly.
Good luck. Divorce sucks big time (even when you really want it) but once you are through it life is soooooo much better!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 9:40:57 GMT -5
"Collecting degrees" doesn't really suggest support for me. And don't assume financial support either. She probably has either student loans or was working as an assistant. She just didn't pay for the "big things" according to the OP.
Anyone who has spent a significant time in graduate school has seen this scenario. Wife goes to school instead of work. Husband resents it. They end up divorced.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2011 9:56:10 GMT -5
There are attornies that specialize in mediated divorces - which basically means that nobody in the situation wants to go to court and scratch each other's eyes out, but you do want to make sure everything is all worked out and legal. Bringing in a lawyer doesn't necessarily mean it gets nasty - but bringing in the wrong lawyer might change the tone of current situation.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Apr 18, 2011 9:56:56 GMT -5
The math isn't too hard. But it's high school math, not grade school math. Make a few quick lists. Cash and taxable investment accounts. Retirement savings. Unsecured debts. Secured debts. Mortgages. Home equity. Be realistic about today's value. Because, put obviously, that's what day it is. Personal property. In a perfect world you'd be able to divide each of these separately. Don't fall in love with anything on the list. If you are, poker face, don't show it. Value everything garage sale price. Don't leave yourself on any of her debts. Demand refi or payoff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 10:02:36 GMT -5
Don't leave yourself on any of her debts. Demand refi or payoff. Yes, this is major. Too often someone gets an agreement that one spouse will pay off a joint debt (let's say, a credit card or a car loan) and then after the divorce they quit paying. The spouse who counted on having it paid off (and may have made other concessions in the divorce based on that promise) finds the creditor holding them responsible. Creditors don't really care who agreed at the settlement to pay off a joint debt. If Person A doesn't, Person B (also on the loan) is equally in trouble.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 18, 2011 10:08:12 GMT -5
I don't have any advice on the financial aspects - others have much more experience and insight than I do anyway - but I'm sorry to hear that your marriage is ending (and that you lost your pup during it). My one unsolicited piece of non-financial advice ts to forgive your soon-to-be-ex wife for anything she did to you. Not for her sake - for yours. You don't want to go through your life bitter, whatever it might eventually hold for you.
Best of luck.
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gawgagranny
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Post by gawgagranny on Apr 18, 2011 10:11:08 GMT -5
Ltdan, first of all, sorry to hear of your situation....divorce is seldom a pleasant experience for anyone, regardless of the reason(s), at least in my experience. Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it. Second, at the risk of sounding repetitive, GET A GOOD LAWYER!! At the very least, use a professional divorce mediator--this person should be able to make sure all the "i"'s are dotted & "t"'s are crossed. There are a zillion little things that can pop up on the financial front to cause either/both of you problems down the road. I know the main idea behind these message boards is the building/conservation of personal wealth, and having your assets both now and future properly cared for legally at this time is a very prudent way to spend some of your assets, even if it hurts! (Also, be sure you change any beneficiary designations after the divorce is final--you wouldn't want to accidentally leave your soon-to-be-XW your life insurance, for example!) Good luck to you! ETA: so sorry about losing your pup in this process; that just stinks...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 13:36:44 GMT -5
A few more thoughts: make sure you don't try to use your attorney as a psychologist. Since you're likely paying by the hour it's a waste of the attorney's time and your money. I had a very good psychologist through the divorce, which kept me from spending time in my attorney's office ruminating about what went wrong and what I was going to do from there. Not her job, nor her area of expertise.
I also sent her a lot of faxes. She could read faster than she listened (like most people) and our phone conversations were more focused because she had the background info, which I'd written as concisely as I could. I'm sure she billed her fax-reading time, but I expected that and I still think it was more efficient.
Finally (for now), run anything you plan to offer to your STBX through the attorney first. I had some ideas she loved (my estranged husband ran out of cash and I took out a HELOC to pay him an advance against his share of the equity, all very carefully documented) and some she turned thumbs down on (temporary support- bad idea because they can drag you into court and ask that it continue- forever and ever). It can keep you from making an offer for something that will raise expectations that were not your intent.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 18, 2011 13:53:48 GMT -5
Along the same lines as Athena: when my son was going through this, my adivce was "Everytime you have a quesiton, don't call the attorney. Write it down. If it can't wait, email it. When you go talk to the attorney, take your questions and write down the answers (you will not remember everything). Your attorney's time is your money, so use it very wisely".
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Apr 18, 2011 14:16:12 GMT -5
Can you get your dog back?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 18, 2011 14:21:43 GMT -5
I've never divorced but I know from experience to never deal on verbal contracts alone. They are hard to prove and just because someone agrees on a handshake doesn't mean they won't revoke it the moment they think something isn't going to go their way.
It's better to use a lawyer to draw things up and make sure your i's are dotted and t's crossed. It can still be amicable, but you don't want verbal agreements to come back and bite you in the butt.
Having it all written down and legal gives you a paper trail.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 18, 2011 14:46:12 GMT -5
I think it is ok without a lawyer as long as things are kept simple & you both agree on everything. If you start getting stuff like she wants alimony or she is going to make payments on debts held in your name, etc, then I would talk to a lawyer because that stuff could bite you in the ass big time. Stuff like you are giving her 20K & she is signing a quit claim deed is all pretty simple & you don't have to worry about long-term commitment on her part to hold up her end of the bargain.
It also depends on where you live, if you live in community property, then it gets trickier & you might want to see a lawyer.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Apr 18, 2011 14:55:48 GMT -5
My divorce also went very smoothly, with assets, kids, and no lawyers.
And do brace yourself, once everything is settled and there is no further "business" to focus on, it gets hard. Even if you are happy about it.
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