Am I the only one?

[thyme4change]

If things keep going the way they are going - I am not sure who will be sued. The CEO and founder is in the submersible. He is the one that fired the guy who said this will fail. I don’t know if he really believed, or was suicidal - but he got in the thing, and is likely dead. I doubt the company has any assets. I can’t imagine they have turned a profit. I don’t know who else has a stake in this - but likely they are somewhat financially insulated if they weren’t operationally involved.

If they find the ship and save these people I still think the company will be in bankruptcy and creditors will take the few assets that may exist. I don’t know how many people think giving billions to billionaires will repair any amount of damage done, so they won’t likely get priority over other creditors.

[swamp]

I'm finding it very hard to even care about this.   I know, people are probably dead, but I'm chalking this up to FAFO. 

[toomuchreality]

Jun 21, 2023 12:43:41 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If things keep going the way they are going - I am not sure who will be sued. The CEO and founder is in the submersible. He is the one that fired the guy who said this will fail. I don’t know if he really believed, or was suicidal - but he got in the thing, and is likely dead. I doubt the company has any assets. I can’t imagine they have turned a profit. I don’t know who else has a stake in this - but likely they are somewhat financially insulated if they weren’t operationally involved.

If they find the ship and save these people I still think the company will be in bankruptcy and creditors will take the few assets that may exist. I don’t know how many people think giving billions to billionaires will repair any amount of damage done, so they won’t likely get priority over other creditors.

True.
From what I read last night and saw on the news, the CEO is who was driving the submersible, with an off the shelf Logitech game controller. He knew the ship had issues, because it had a crack in the hull and the safety rating had been changed from 4,000 ft to 3,000 ft.
If the Titanic is at 12-13,000 ft, I don't know that they'd have been able to see much, other than sonar readings and stuff, that the captain would have explained to them.
The Titan claimed to have a bathroom. But that amounted to a a curtain that could be put up around you. And people were encouraged to limit their food and liquid intake during the days prior to going in the sub.
Of the 5 seats in it, only one had room to stretch out your legs.
Not my idea of a good time. But I no longer trust amusement rides either. Although I used to.
Now I don't even like to watch them.

[haapai]

Jun 20, 2023 12:26:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

They aren't rescuing.  That was never in the cards.  There aren't a whole lot of successful submarine rescue stories out there.  There are ships out there at great expense for other reasons.  Methinks that the private ones want to imitate the  Carpathia or at least observe the law of the sea.  The naval vessels of several nations might just be there for other reasons, which probably do not involve serious thoughts of rescuing anyone.  I think that they want to be the ones that haul up the wreckage, mostly because they don't want anyone else poking around. 

I know how tin-foil hat that sounds, but I'll stand by it.  I really don't think that this expense is about rescuing rich people.  I think it is about keeping secrets. 

[toomuchreality]

Jun 21, 2023 15:26:47 GMT -5 haapai said:

Jun 20, 2023 12:26:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

They aren't rescuing.  That was never in the cards.  There aren't a whole lot of successful submarine rescue stories out there.  There are ships out there at great expense for other reasons.  Methinks that the private ones want to imitate the  Carpathia or at least observe the law of the sea.  The naval vessels of several nations might just be there for other reasons, which probably do not involve serious thoughts of rescuing anyone.  I think that they want to be the ones that haul up the wreckage, mostly because they don't want anyone else poking around. 

I know how tin-foil hat that sounds, but I'll stand by it.  I really don't think that this expense is about rescuing rich people.  I think it is about keeping secrets. 

Interesting.

[haapai]

I'm also bothered by the apparent doubling of the estimates of how long the oxygen supply will last.  How the hell did 40 hours turn into 96 hours.  This sounds very rinky-dinky. 

[toomuchreality]

Jun 21, 2023 16:22:39 GMT -5 haapai said:

I'm also bothered by the apparent doubling of the estimates of how long the oxygen supply will last.  How the hell did 40 hours turn into 96 hours.  This sounds very rinky-dinky. 

I thought the higher number was the amount at the beginning. The lower number is what was left, as of yesterday, if things go well. It's due to run out sometime on Thursday.

Unlike a submarine, the submersible cannot replenish its oxygen supply.

[skeeter]

Jun 21, 2023 9:37:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 21, 2023 5:06:17 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Rich people do some stupid shit, just because they can.

A stated goal I had at one point in my life was to leave life with all the body parts I started with. But then I changed my mind. I got a motorcycle, parachuted, bungee jumped. Started a career in which I built challenge activities high in trees (once used climbing spurs to get 70 feet up, leaned back to use a two foot drill bit to go through the tree, stuck an eyebolt in it, tightened it down, then used it to rappel back down). Not rich so can't even really entertain the idea of the sub or rocketship. But we of more modest means can do our own stupid shit. Just aren't in the news when we do.

Completely OT, but I wanted to just say I really enjoy reading your posts.  You're always so down to earth, logical, non-confrontational (most of the time), compassionate and have a great sense of humor.

Keep it up.....please.....  

[billisonboard]

Jun 21, 2023 19:28:22 GMT -5 skeeter said:

Jun 21, 2023 9:37:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

A stated goal I had at one point in my life was to leave life with all the body parts I started with. But then I changed my mind. I got a motorcycle, parachuted, bungee jumped. Started a career in which I built challenge activities high in trees (once used climbing spurs to get 70 feet up, leaned back to use a two foot drill bit to go through the tree, stuck an eyebolt in it, tightened it down, then used it to rappel back down). Not rich so can't even really entertain the idea of the sub or rocketship. But we of more modest means can do our own stupid shit. Just aren't in the news when we do.

Completely OT, but I wanted to just say I really enjoy reading your posts.  You're always so down to earth, logical, non-confrontational (most of the time), compassionate and have a great sense of humor.

Keep it up.....please.....  

Thanks

Re the confrontational: I read once the idea of "comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable". I might have taken it too much to heart. In fact it was once suggested that I should have it tattooed onto my body.

[Tiny]

Jun 21, 2023 15:26:47 GMT -5 haapai said:

Jun 20, 2023 12:26:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

They aren't rescuing.  That was never in the cards.  There aren't a whole lot of successful submarine rescue stories out there.  There are ships out there at great expense for other reasons.  Methinks that the private ones want to imitate the  Carpathia or at least observe the law of the sea.  The naval vessels of several nations might just be there for other reasons, which probably do not involve serious thoughts of rescuing anyone.  I think that they want to be the ones that haul up the wreckage, mostly because they don't want anyone else poking around. 

I know how tin-foil hat that sounds, but I'll stand by it.  I really don't think that this expense is about rescuing rich people.  I think it is about keeping secrets. 

I'm going with Occam's Razor in a way - I don't think there are any secrets about the Titanic wreckage OR the submersible (and it's technology). 

I'm pretty sure no one involved with the "search and rescue" thought they'd be able to rescue the people in the submersible - Once they find it - I think the technology they have to raise it will take several days to do it - even if that technology is right there the minute they locate the submersible.   
(I think maybe we all apply a little too much of what we've seen in movies or read in books to situations like these...)    

I think the reason "everyone is pitching in to search" or at least making sure they are on record as having "done something" - is purely because there are billionaires on the submersible.     Billionaires usually have their fingers (money and influence) in lots of lots of businesses and have the ears of lots of other people in positions of power or influence.        

It's not about keeping secrets - it's about relationships and power and influence.    No one wants to be the people who didn't help because at some point in the future it might be the "break it" part of deal or getting someone (a business a country) to honor a deal or obligation.        People are petty and grudge holding and narcissistic - maybe even more so when they achieve extreme wealth.    (I assume all very wealthy people have those qualities - they need them - that's how they got so wealthy and that's how they stay so wealthy)   And billionaires hang out with lots of other wealthy powerful people. 

I'm absolutely positive that the greatest effort will be made to find and recover the submersible as quickly as possible - because the people in it were important in real life.      It also has the added benefit of figuring out/finding/creating the technology and protocols for getting the thing off the bottom of the ocean.  I'm pretty sure that will be a money making thing in the future.    


I do find it exceeding weird that when a ship/boat with immigrants capsizes and hundreds of people (men women and children) are in immediate danger of death (and most of them will die),  no one rushes to help.       

  

[TheOtherMe]

Jun 22, 2023 9:41:35 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jun 21, 2023 15:26:47 GMT -5 haapai said:

I do find it exceeding weird that when a ship/boat with immigrants capsizes and hundreds of people (men women and children) are in immediate danger of death (and most of them will die),  no one rushes to help.       

  

Sad, isn't it?  Even in death, money talks.

[thyme4change]

I do find it exceeding weird that when a ship/boat with immigrants capsizes and hundreds of people (men women and children) are in immediate danger of death (and most of them will die),  no one rushes to help.       

  

To be fair - the most recent refuge ship disaster is not anywhere near USA - whereas this is near our coast. But we don’t care about any of the deaths between Cuba and Florida (with the exception of Elian Gonzalez) - definitely tragic.

Has anyone watched the movie ‘Flee’? It was eye opening for me, but told my daughter’s friend about it and he said it was extremely similar to his story when his family came from Cuba to the US. Every time as refugee boat makes the news I send him a message telling him I’m glad he made it and is with us.

[weltschmerz]

www.ctvnews.ca/world/debris-field-found-near-titanic-as-canadian-rov-reaches-sea-floor-in-search-for-missing-sub-1.6451370

[laterbloomer]

Jun 22, 2023 11:15:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

www.ctvnews.ca/world/debris-field-found-near-titanic-as-canadian-rov-reaches-sea-floor-in-search-for-missing-sub-1.6451370

Still so many questions. Did the vessel break? Did they do something to  break it when they were running out of oxygen? For me I would rather things happen quickly than die slowly over 4 days.

[chiver78]

the US Coast Guard is going to have a press conference around 3pm today. I'm listening to CNN now, they just said it. 

[Tennesseer]

Jun 22, 2023 11:43:54 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jun 22, 2023 11:15:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

www.ctvnews.ca/world/debris-field-found-near-titanic-as-canadian-rov-reaches-sea-floor-in-search-for-missing-sub-1.6451370

Still so many questions. Did the vessel break? Did they do something to  break it when they were running out of oxygen? For me I would rather things happen quickly than die slowly over 4 days.

Claustrophobia and a slow death. Horrible mix.

[billisonboard]

These situations always bring to mind the time when I was newly stationed aboard a Reserve minesweeper in the Puget Sound. One weekend we were training the reserve component out on the sound when we got a call of a private craft in distress. We radioed that we would respond, sounded general quarters, geared up, and headed towards them at full  speed.  Hours later we finally got there. Granted we were not designed to be a rapid response vessel but it gave me more respect for the size of bodies of water and ships ability do cover distances.

[billisonboard]

Wonder if there were any actions, voluntary or otherwise,  taken to lessen the number of people using oxygen? 

[Tennesseer]

Jun 22, 2023 11:58:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Wonder if there were any actions, voluntary or otherwise,  taken to lessen the number of people using oxygen? 

Or hungry?

The Donner Pass Submersible?

[billisonboard]

Jun 22, 2023 12:08:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 22, 2023 11:58:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Wonder if there were any actions, voluntary or otherwise,  taken to lessen the number of people using oxygen? 

Or hungry?

The Donner Pass Submersible?

Are any of them named Timothy?

[Tennesseer]

[Tiny]

Jun 22, 2023 11:52:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 22, 2023 11:43:54 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Still so many questions. Did the vessel break? Did they do something to  break it when they were running out of oxygen? For me I would rather things happen quickly than die slowly over 4 days.

Claustrophobia and a slow death. Horrible mix.

And maybe in complete darkness (if they shut off lights in order to "conserve" battery life).  And other stuff.     yeah, not a pleasant experience.  

I wonder if the occupants had a way to record their "last words"  a special "box" or "place" to put whatever they recorded.   What would survive being exposed to water, the low temperature and water pressure?   Did everyone get a piece of paper and a pencil?     Would a cell phone (or the chip)  survive the water pressure?  


So many questions.  

[Tennesseer]

I was already going to Hell for many other reasons so what's one more.

[Tiny]

TBH - if the submersible remained intact - plenty of other humans died such torturous deaths before these guys.  

The good old oubliette or the dramatic bricking someone into a space in a wall (this may have been something more for religious prisoners than run of the mill prisoners. I'm sure there are lots of other ways that were used to kill people throughout our history that involve a dark, no water, no food captivity. Humans like to do that kind of stuff to other humans. Suffering is good.

Isn't the amount of water available also a factor? 3 days and you die of dehydration?

[countrygirl2]

DD and I went on a submersible to 150 ft on a cruise. It was pretty neat. DD could not get down the main area by herself so they had a hatch where she climbed a ladder down and I helped her. They said they had no rescue vehicle to get it up, but I figured at that depth they could get us out. We did venture up to a drop off, but only close. We didn't see much wildlife, but it was still pretty neat. There were quite a few people on it.

The saddest part of this one, is 2 of them were a father and son, the son being 19.  He was going to college in England, hate to hear that young man likely lost his life. And they spent $500k to do it. They must have trusted the guy.

[chiver78]

I've been listening to coverage of this since my last call ended, and most recently listened to a technical guy in the subs industry talking about how the nature of the debris that's been confirmed in the field indicates to him a catastrophic implosion of the hull and that it would have been a very quick process.  

[imawino]

Jun 22, 2023 13:55:52 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I've been listening to coverage of this since my last call ended, and most recently listened to a technical guy in the subs industry talking about how the nature of the debris that's been confirmed in the field indicates to him a catastrophic implosion of the hull and that it would have been a very quick process.  

That is so much better than the alternative.

[weltschmerz]

The debris field was from the Titan, after a 'catastrophic implosion".
They're all dead.

[haapai]

All of our speculation regarding oxygen and battery life is moot.  The Titan most likely imploded when contact was lost, about an hour and a half or an hour and a forty-five minutes into its journey.  It had not gotten to the bottom yet and death was instantaneous. 

I feel kinda jerked around right now.  What's with these stories of huge search areas and banging sounds?  Once they sent an ROV down in the same place that the Titan descended, the mystery ended.  Maybe there was never any mystery at all. 

[Spellbound454]

This upset me all day yesterday when they kept saying there was x amount of oxygen left..... and I kept thinking how awful it would be to suffocate to death on the sea bed.

Seems they died soon after contact was lost and their bodies may never be found.

It seems this submersible had undergone absolutely no safety checks, and it was taking fee paying passengers.

The 19 year old didn't even want to go.

What the heck! This sort of thing has got to stop immediately.