Am I the only one?

[toomuchreality]

Regarding the lost submersible, who went on a tour, to see the Titanic...

EVERY time I hear someone (newscaster, or other) say that the people had gone on a 6 hour tour, to see the Titanic, my brain hears the Gilligan's Island tune singing, "A 3 (6) hour tour." 🎼 🎶
I can't make it stop. It's like I pause and wait for it. It's driving me batty!
An ear worm. 👂🐛

Am I the only one? Seriously?

I sure hope they find them soon. Safe. Has anyone heard an update/anything new?

[Tiny]

I haven't watched any video media about the lost submersible. So, I have to ask are they really saying a 6 hour tour? They all paid for 8 day what amounts to an adventure excursion.

I will admit when I first heard there was a problem - I did think of the Gilligan's Island tune.

I have been reading the updates. I hope I am proved wrong - but I don't think this will have a good outcome. Even if they locate the submersible - do they have any way to raise it to the surface or to help the people in it - at 10,000 feet below the surface? Do they have a back up submersible that can go down and attach a cable(s) or something so it can be pulled to the surface?


I wonder how this will effect the "tourist attraction" part of this kind of thing. I wonder if the passengers signed some legal paperwork that stated the tour company could not be sued and were not responsible for loss of life.

(there was also the private plane that went down and killed some wealthy businessman's daughter and grandchild (and the nameless nanny) and the pilot. )
Sadly when that happened - my first thought was "well, he (the wealthy businessman) can buy a new family". And then my second thought was "well, he (and his wife) are now just like everyone else - rich or poor and his money can't do anything about it." )

I feel that latter feeling a bit for the passengers in the submersible - "well, they will get to experience the one thing they have in common with EVERYONE else - they aren't so special and their money can't change it."

[busymom]

What I've been thinking, with the recent news on that missing sub, is anything tied to the Titanic is cursed.  I sincerely hope those people survive, but it doesn't sound good.


Anyone else here remember they were going to build another ship & call it Titanic?  Whatever happened with that?  I didn't hear if construction was completed.  It was supposed to be done during the time that Covid was bad.      (Just for the record, I have no plans to go on that cruise.  None.)  

[Tiny]

I think the "curse" of the Titanic - is putting profits over human lives (so basically Capitalism). It doesn't have to be the Titanic's wreckage that's driving the tourism aspect of this. If the company/business/people who are the financial investors for the submersible thought they could "market" the adventure of going to the bottom and viewing - I don't know - a "spectacular" field of sea vents or maybe some wreckage of something else... they would have been doing that. The Titanic is just something that everyone "knows".  And you get more street cred saying you've seen the Titanic - than saying you've seen sea vents (and maybe some luminescent creatures)  at the bottom of the ocean.    I'm guessing it's not common to spot sea creatures.  You have to sit around and wait for them to show up.  

FWIW: I'm guessing the people in the submersible - get to look out a tiny 8 inch wide window and I'm guessing they don't see much of anything. Unless there have been giant floodlights installed on and around the Titanic wreckage - they aren't getting any kind of panoramic view. I'm guessing most of what they get to see is on video screens with images from cameras.

I guess it's more impressive to say you've seen the Titanic! Rather than to say you've been the freaking bottom of the ocean.


(I fear this all may be like the time I got some of my friends to go with me to a late night outing in the "cornfields" to view the planet Mars thru various telescopes - provided by a local college and the members of the astronomy club. Mars was as close to Earth in it's orbit as it would be for years and the polar ice caps would be very visible. I think this was before the rovers went to Mars. I thought it was freaking cool - to see a big tube like telescope set up (it needed a u haul truck  to get it to the "cornfield")  and to be able to look thru it! and to have lots of other telescopes set up to view different areas of the sky and to have different people associated with the event talk about the stars, constellations, Mars, the telescopes being used, etc... My friends were disappointed that Mars didn't look like it did in any of the pictures they had seen on TV or in books. It's wasn't very red. And it was about the size of a nickel when viewed thru the telescope. I thought it was all very cool (and a little magical). They weren't all that impressed with seeing the other stars thru the other telescopes either. )

[thyme4change]

The ocean is constantly trying to kill us. Everything about it will kill us. I can’t think of a reason I would ever get on a submarine- much less one that is so new it hasn’t been rated for safety. I would rather die on land. This whole story makes me shudder with anxiety.

[Tiny]

I wonder if this will end the "bottom of the ocean" tourist trade?

Will new regulations and safety measures be required if it continues? (I think I read that it's unknown if the submersible has a device that pings it's location to help with finding it.)

Will the cost per person go up (I think it 25K per person).  UPDATE:  it's 250K per person.   

[billisonboard]

Jun 20, 2023 10:26:19 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I wonder if this will end the "bottom of the ocean" tourist trade?

Will new regulations and safety measures be required if it continues? (I think I read that it's unknown if the submersible has a device that pings it's location to help with finding it.)

Will the cost per person go up (I think it 25K per person).

Who regulates such activities in international waters? I am thinking the country in which the company operating it is home based? But they could relocate to avoid restraints they felt too extreme and costly. Seems this could be a bit tricky.

ADDED: I am thinking this should be very much a consumer beware situation. Do your homework and decide for yourself risk/benefit.

[Tiny]

I just updated my post - the cost per person is 250K. Which I found kind of amusing when paired with "Billionaire" as a description for one of the occupants. I suspect the other occupants are well beyond mere "millionaire".

[laterbloomer]

Jun 20, 2023 11:06:01 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I just updated my post - the cost per person is 250K. Which I found kind of amusing when paired with "Billionaire" as a description for one of the occupants. I suspect the other occupants are well beyond mere "millionaire".

I haven't followed it very closely, but for some reason I thought it was a research team.

[Tiny]

Jun 20, 2023 11:32:15 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jun 20, 2023 11:06:01 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I just updated my post - the cost per person is 250K. Which I found kind of amusing when paired with "Billionaire" as a description for one of the occupants. I suspect the other occupants are well beyond mere "millionaire".

I haven't followed it very closely, but for some reason I thought it was a research team

I originally head that there was a pilot and 4 "mission specialists" on the submersible. I think 3 of of the "mission specialists" were paying passengers. the fourth person may also have been a paying passenger. (that "mission specialist" thing made me chuckle - it's like a ride at Disney World. I'm pretty sure the "guests" riding one of the Star Wars rides were called something like "rebellion recruits" or something like that to further the illusion of ride.

Part of their experience is:

Diving begins depending on the sea conditions. Final dive checks take place before crew members board the five-person Titan submersible. Those not diving the first day "will be incorporated into other areas of dive ops — like driving the dingy, assisting the Expedition Manager, collecting media," the website said. For those onboard the Titan, the descent takes about two hours and crew members will assist the pilot "with coms and tracking, take notes for the science team about what you see outside of the viewport, watch a movie or eat lunch," it said. "Soon you will arrive at depth, and after some navigating across the seafloor and debris field, finally see what you’ve been waiting for: the RMS Titanic." An onboard content expert will point out key features of the wreck and animal life while exploring the wreck, it said. "Enjoy hours of exploring the wreck and debris field before making the two-hour ascent to the surface," the website said.

www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/titanic-submersible-missing-search-06-20-23/h_d2659fb16f54a89a7a0a7e6fe86623e8

[weltschmerz]

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

[billisonboard]

Jun 20, 2023 12:26:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

That is always an intriguing question when people need to be rescued. Happens frequently with hikers and climbers. Hear at times people are sent a bill. Not clear on final results.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 20, 2023 12:35:26 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 20, 2023 12:26:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

That is always an intriguing question when people need to be rescued. Happens frequently with hikers and climbers. Hear at times people are sent a bill. Not clear on final results.

Hikers and climbers often don't have a lot of money. These are billionaires.

[billisonboard]

Jun 20, 2023 13:07:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 20, 2023 12:35:26 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

That is always an intriguing question when people need to be rescued. Happens frequently with hikers and climbers. Hear at times people are sent a bill. Not clear on final results.

Hikers and climbers often don't have a lot of money. These are billionaires.

Perhaps there could be a sliding scale based on ability to pay. Although I could also support one based on the stupidity involved in needing to be rescued in the first place.

But a question on the case specifically. Should the passengers be billed or the organization operating the submersible? I lean to organization. A different, simpler situation: A ferris wheel becomes inoperable. The local fire department has to be called in to remove people. If a bill is sent, should each rider be required to pay?

[laterbloomer]

Apparently the CEO of the company that owns the submersible is on it.

This feels like the plot of an action movie, how to kill 5 rich guys at once.

And finally, the people in that submersible are in a living nightmare right now. I hope they are all really dislikable people. 😞

[billisonboard]

Jun 20, 2023 15:43:13 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apparently the CEO of the company that owns the submersible is on it.

This feels like the plot of an action movie, how to kill 5 rich guys at once.

And finally, the people in that submersible are in a living nightmare right now. I hope they are all really dislikable people. 😞

I hope they are all very likeable people who have put their time on planet to good use and will be able to, if that is to be their fate, drift off into death in peace.

[Tiny]

Jun 20, 2023 12:26:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Every time I see the search and rescue efforts, I wonder at how much it's costing to rescue these billionaires from Dubai and Pakistan.
If they're found, will the US and Canada get any recompense from these ultra-wealthy individuals?

I was wondering about this too.  


FWIW:  It appears that making a "manned" descent to the Titanic's wreckage is pretty common.   One of the guys on this trip has made the trip 33 other times over the last 20 years.   The movie Titanic came out in 1997.     It's starting to sound like going down to the wreckage is more "routine" than I expected.   

That said, once the descent became a "tourist attraction"  I'm wondering what kind of paperwork/legal stuff gets signed before someone makes the trip.   
Maybe there's some legalese to handle compensation for a rescue effort.   

I'm also wondering since the people involved seemed to be involved in their own businesses (or on various boards/etc)  if this is just handled as a sudden accidental death  OR  if since there was so much risk involved if whatever "jobs" they had required some sort of legal something (about passing of power or authority)? 

The - yeah, I'm taking 2 weeks vacation and going to the bottom of the ocean maybe I should make sure my affairs are in order seems like something someone would think.   Probably wouldn't think about it the same way as going on a two week ski vacation (could die in a car or plane accident or in an accident on the slopes).  

[Tiny]

Has any of the news reported how they might be able to save the occupants of the submersible if they find it in time? Do they have anyway to get to a depth below 2000 feet with a rescue mission?

[chiver78]

actually, the first thing I thought of was Payne Stewart's airplane depressurizing. I hope, if it's not found before the air runs out, that whatever happened was something catastrophic and they all go quickly. 

[toomuchreality]

Yes. Yesterday, on my local news, they said "6 hour tour". But they gave more more information about it, as well. That's just what caught my attention, repeatedly.

One report I heard yesterday, on a different news channel, said that the submersible was made with a safety feature built in that would automatically raise it to the surface, should an "event like this, take place". No further details were given, that I recall, about when, or how that would happen. And I haven't heard that claim made again since, or by anyone else. If it were true, I would think people would be talking about that and expecting that. One person interviewed, said they were on the submersible last year, and it had problems. But they didn't say what the problems were.

I noticed that all those claims are not being discussed today.

What a nightmare.

[chiver78]

Jun 20, 2023 17:52:40 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Yes. Yesterday, on my local news, they said "6 hour tour". But they gave more more information about it, as well. That's just what caught my attention, repeatedly.

One report I heard yesterday, on a different news channel, said that the submersible was made with a safety feature built in that would automatically raise it to the surface, should an "event like this, take place". No further details were given, that I recall, about when, or how that would happen. And I haven't heard that claim made again since, or by anyone else. If it were true, I would think people would be talking about that and expecting that. One person interviewed, said they were on the submersible last year, and it had problems. But they didn't say what the problems were.

I noticed that all those claims are not being discussed today.

What a nightmare.

except it can apparently only be opened from the outside. that alone would prevent me from ever getting closed into it. even an airplane can be opened from inside with emergency slides and shit. 

[Tiny]

The plot thickens:

OceanGate was warned of potential for ‘catastrophic’ problems with Titanic mission.
www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/oceangate-titanic-missing-submersible.html

It's the ny times - so probably behind a paywall.

Here's the gist of it:

Leaders in the submersible vehicle industry urged the company in 2018 to undergo a more stringent certification process.

“The submersible industry had significant concerns over the strategy of building a deep sea expedition submersible without following existing classification safety guidelines,” Mr. Kohnen said.

The letter said that OceanGate’s marketing of the Titan had been “misleading,” because it claimed that the craft would meet or exceed the safety standards of a risk assessment agency known as DNV, yet the company had no plans to have the craft assessed by the agency.

The industry leaders said that OceanGate should test its prototypes under the watch of DNV or another accredited registrar.

Will Kohnen (Mr Kohnen) the chairman of the Manned Underwater Vehicles committee of the Marine Technology Society, a 60-year-old trade group that aims to promote ocean technology and educate the public about it. They wrote a letter to OceanGate’s chief executive, Stockton Rush, in 2018 warning of possible “catastrophic” problems with the submersible’s development and its planned mission to tour the Titanic wreckage.

Mr. Kohnen said in the interview that Mr. Rush, OceanGate’s chief executive, called him after reading the letter and told him that industry regulations were stifling innovation. In a 2019 blog post titled “Why Isn’t Titan Classed?” the company made similar arguments.

OceanGate said in the post that because its Titan craft was so innovative, it could take years to get it certified by leading assessment agencies. “Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation,” the company wrote.

It's like a movie script... "We are using the highest grade of Unobtainium. It will be decades before any safety assessments/certifications are setup. It's safe now! why should we wait!"  
Oh, and I'm alittle concerned about the "real world testing" part...   I wonder if this current "mission" was a "test"... 

[Tiny]

I wonder how often the communications with the submersible failed... the last communication was a 11:47am on Sunday morning. Then began a wait for the submersible to resurface at it's appointed time 6:10pm - and when it didn't an emergency was called at 6:35pm.

I wonder what was happening at the Mothership during the wait from noon til 6 pm... with no communications from the sub. I'm assuming quite a bit of chaos if losing communication wasn't a routine thing.

[toomuchreality]

So many unanswered questions.
I expect some major lawsuits to come from this.

I wouldn't go in it. But then, I wouldn't ride in a rocketship to space, either.

[toomuchreality]

I copied this from an nbc.com article. I don't know how to copy a link, using my phone...


"Mike Reiss, a New York-based writer and producer who has worked on The Simpsons, says he was among the explorers to take a trip on the Titan sub last year.

"Yes, the sub that’s gone missing is the same one I took down to the Titanic. I wish everyone involved the best of luck," Reiss said in a Twitter post.

Speaking with BBC Breakfast in the U.K., Reiss said: “You sign a massive waiver that lists one way after another that you could die on the trip. They mention death three times on page one so it’s never far from your mind.”

“As I was getting onto the sub my thought was this could be the end," he said. “So nobody who’s in this situation was caught off guard. You all know what you are getting into."

[daisylu]

Jun 20, 2023 18:53:56 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

So many unanswered questions.
I expect some major lawsuits to come from this.

I wouldn't go in it. But then, I wouldn't ride in a rocketship to space, either.

Rich people do some stupid shit, just because they can.

[Tiny]

Jun 20, 2023 18:53:56 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

So many unanswered questions.
I expect some major lawsuits to come from this.

I wouldn't go in it. But then, I wouldn't ride in a rocketship to space, either.

Yes. so, yes. I'm not sure if it's "taking my life into my own hands" or the thought of being enclosed with a bunch of other people for who knows how long. I will happily ride in an elevator but the times when the elevator is crowded and we all stand shoulder to shoulder gives me the willies.

I'm not overly fond of being underground in a small space - so caves (the guided tour kind) make me anxious.


I wouldn't do this trip to the bottom of the ocean (or a rocket ship) even if it was a "safe as driving to church on sunday" - mostly because I would be spending so much mental energy on quieting my anxiety I wouldn't enjoy the trip.

[Tiny]

And for the record - I did find that the submersible has been making routine trips = this wasn't a one off trip to the wreck.

I guess it's a bit like tourists visiting White Island (an active volcano) - safe and fun for a decade or two and then disaster.

[billisonboard]

Jun 21, 2023 5:06:17 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Jun 20, 2023 18:53:56 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

So many unanswered questions.
I expect some major lawsuits to come from this.

I wouldn't go in it. But then, I wouldn't ride in a rocketship to space, either.

Rich people do some stupid shit, just because they can.

A stated goal I had at one point in my life was to leave life with all the body parts I started with. But then I changed my mind. I got a motorcycle, parachuted, bungee jumped. Started a career in which I built challenge activities high in trees (once used climbing spurs to get 70 feet up, leaned back to use a two foot drill bit to go through the tree, stuck an eyebolt in it, tightened it down, then used it to rappel back down). Not rich so can't even really entertain the idea of the sub or rocketship. But we of more modest means can do our own stupid shit. Just aren't in the news when we do.

[NoNamePerson]

Jun 21, 2023 5:06:17 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Jun 20, 2023 18:53:56 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

So many unanswered questions.
I expect some major lawsuits to come from this.

I wouldn't go in it. But then, I wouldn't ride in a rocketship to space, either.

Rich people do some stupid shit, just because they can.

Poor people do some stupid shit, just because they can!!