Trump indicted thirty-seven counts Mar-a-lago docs

[Tennesseer]

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Jun 12, 2023 11:19:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

 One of these things is not like the others...

Even toddlers watching Sesame Street would understand this one! 

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Jun 12, 2023 12:06:09 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.newsweek.com/trump-suggests-hes-open-taking-plea-deal-specific-condition-1805827

Trump will consider a plea if he is paid restitution.  

That's not how it works.  

What on earth would require restitution

He continues his attempts to grift.

[swamp]

Jun 12, 2023 12:22:10 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Jun 12, 2023 12:06:09 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.newsweek.com/trump-suggests-hes-open-taking-plea-deal-specific-condition-1805827

Trump will consider a plea if he is paid restitution.  

That's not how it works.  

What on earth would require restitution

He continues his attempts to grift.

attorney's fees?

damage to his reputation and business?

Who knows?  He's nuts.  

[thyme4change]

I turned on Fox News for a few minutes last night. I felt like they are splitting hairs to misrepresent- but I don’t know since I haven’t really gotten into the details of the indictment. They say that there isn’t any evidence of espionage. Was he indicted for espionage? I can see how Trumpers would take this one statement as totally exonerating Trump - but if that isn’t the charge, it is kinda irrelevant- right?

Hopefully someone who read the indictment can fill me in. Thanks

[billisonboard]

Jun 12, 2023 12:06:09 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.newsweek.com/trump-suggests-hes-open-taking-plea-deal-specific-condition-1805827

Trump will consider a plea if he is paid restitution.  

That's not how it works.  

Pleads guilty, agrees not to run for President, twenty year sentence. I think that I would support taking up a collection.

[swamp]

Jun 12, 2023 12:51:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I turned on Fox News for a few minutes last night. I felt like they are splitting hairs to misrepresent- but I don’t know since I haven’t really gotten into the details of the indictment. They say that there isn’t any evidence of espionage. Was he indicted for espionage? I can see how Trumpers would take this one statement as totally exonerating Trump - but if that isn’t the charge, it is kinda irrelevant- right?

Hopefully someone who read the indictment can fill me in. Thanks

He is not charged with espionage, he is charged with mishandling/disclosing classified documents under the Espionage Act.   

[djAdvocate]

Jun 11, 2023 21:32:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 11, 2023 20:34:23 GMT -5 saveinla said:

In the meantime his lawyer who promoted his election win is under investigation by the California bar - will be a good one to watch

t.co/Qy5iwjnkJQ

Eastman was and is a fool.

f*&king enabler.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 12, 2023 12:40:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 12, 2023 12:22:10 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

What on earth would require restitution

He continues his attempts to grift.

attorney's fees?

damage to his reputation and business?

Who knows?  He's nuts.  

i am fine with that, provided that he is barred from holding public office.
i am not even sure that is POSSIBLE, but it might be.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 12, 2023 13:32:57 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 12, 2023 12:51:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I turned on Fox News for a few minutes last night. I felt like they are splitting hairs to misrepresent- but I don’t know since I haven’t really gotten into the details of the indictment. They say that there isn’t any evidence of espionage. Was he indicted for espionage? I can see how Trumpers would take this one statement as totally exonerating Trump - but if that isn’t the charge, it is kinda irrelevant- right?

Hopefully someone who read the indictment can fill me in. Thanks

He is not charged with espionage, he is charged with mishandling/disclosing classified documents under the Espionage Act.   

it is unclear what charge that will lead to though, right?
or IS THAT CLEAR from the indictment?

[djAdvocate]

any plea deal that does NOT bar him from office is a non-starter.  he will win on the tidal wave of victim-hood which he knows precisely how to surf.

the ONLY alternative is to sentence him to prison (if they can prove guilt, of course) for the remainder of his mortal life.  he is in such amazing health that he should be show no leniency for age.

edit: since some seem to think that being a convicted felon would bar him from office, it wouldn't, nor did i state it would, here.

in fact, i am assuming he will be a convicted felon on or about the time he is in the general election next year.  it will not prevent him from running, and he will run.  so, what i am suggesting here is that we should find a way to prevent that LEGALLY.  i know that bills and i disagree on that, and that is fine.

to be extra clear, at this point, i think conviction is a better way to keep him out of office.  if he is convicted to prison, assuming nobody running would pardon him, that would end it, in all likelihood.  the best medicine would be Trump watching Biden get re-elected from his jail cell.  eventually, some Republican would probably win, and pardon him.  but that might not fix his legal issues, if they are at the state level.

then again, it might.

[billisonboard]

Jun 12, 2023 15:09:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

any plea deal that does NOT bar him from office is a non-starter.  he will win on the tidal wave of victim-hood which he knows precisely how to surf.

the ONLY alternative is to sentence him to prison (if they can prove guilt, of course) for the remainder of his mortal life.  he is in such amazing health that he should be show no leniency for age.

As I am sure you know but posting this just in case anyone else isn't positive:

Can Trump run for president from prison? Yes, and it’s been done before.

There are no legal obstacles to running for president as a convicted felon or even from behind bars. And if Trump finds himself in that predicament, he’ll be following in the footsteps of another rabble-rousing populist and frequent presidential candidate: the avowed socialist Eugene V. Debs, who received nearly a million votes while in prison a century ago.

[tbop77]

These guys defending him are so comical.  The memo sent out to them must have been:

Weaponizing the DOJ and Hillary's e-mails

Dana Bash interviewed Jim Jordan yesterday and all he did was yell over her.  I don't see how she kept from bursting out laughing, she really looked like she wanted to.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 12, 2023 15:34:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 12, 2023 15:09:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

any plea deal that does NOT bar him from office is a non-starter.  he will win on the tidal wave of victim-hood which he knows precisely how to surf.

the ONLY alternative is to sentence him to prison (if they can prove guilt, of course) for the remainder of his mortal life.  he is in such amazing health that he should be show no leniency for age.

As I am sure you know but posting this just in case anyone else isn't positive:

Can Trump run for president from prison? Yes, and it’s been done before.

There are no legal obstacles to running for president as a convicted felon or even from behind bars. And if Trump finds himself in that predicament, he’ll be following in the footsteps of another rabble-rousing populist and frequent presidential candidate: the avowed socialist Eugene V. Debs, who received nearly a million votes while in prison a century ago.

I would REALLY appreciate it if we could stop living through once in a 100+ year events please.  I've had enough of history making thank you very much. 

[NastyWoman]

Jun 11, 2023 14:43:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i learned something new about Trump during this.
he is a fucking slob.

seriously, i thought he was sorta neat.
you look at his house, his office, his desk at the WH...the wife....kids...
all tidy, in order.

i also learned that he has absolutely no regard for 
state secrets.  i kinda knew that after the "inviting Russians
to the oval" episode.  but now i know the extent of it.

i never thought he was fit for office.  but now i know it.

We can only hope that is true. It could very well be worse still. I have long since given up on hoping for the best where the loser is concerned.

[billisonboard]

Jun 12, 2023 15:06:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 12, 2023 13:32:57 GMT -5 swamp said:

He is not charged with espionage, he is charged with mishandling/disclosing classified documents under the Espionage Act.   

it is unclear what charge that will lead to though, right?
or IS THAT CLEAR from the indictment?

On page 28 of the indictment, at the top of the page it says "Counts 1-31, Willful Retention of National Defense Information, (then the US Code number). That is the crime he is charged with x 31. Count 32 is listed on 34, and etc.

[billisonboard]

Jun 12, 2023 15:43:06 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 12, 2023 15:34:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As I am sure you know but posting this just in case anyone else isn't positive:

Can Trump run for president from prison? Yes, and it’s been done before.

There are no legal obstacles to running for president as a convicted felon or even from behind bars. And if Trump finds himself in that predicament, he’ll be following in the footsteps of another rabble-rousing populist and frequent presidential candidate: the avowed socialist Eugene V. Debs, who received nearly a million votes while in prison a century ago.

I would REALLY appreciate it if we could stop living through once in a 100+ year events please.  I've had enough of history making thank you very much. 

On the other hand, Donald Trump being in prison so he could meet the criteria of this 100 year event won't be a bad thing.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 12, 2023 15:47:19 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jun 11, 2023 14:43:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i learned something new about Trump during this.
he is a fucking slob.

seriously, i thought he was sorta neat.
you look at his house, his office, his desk at the WH...the wife....kids...
all tidy, in order.

i also learned that he has absolutely no regard for 
state secrets.  i kinda knew that after the "inviting Russians
to the oval" episode.  but now i know the extent of it.

i never thought he was fit for office.  but now i know it.

We can only hope that is true. It could very well be worse still. I have long since given up on hoping for the best best where the loser is concerned.

good point.  it is already disqualifying.  it might be treasonous.

edit: i am using the word "disqualified" euphemistically, here, and will continue to do so.  what i mean is that "no rational person would vote for him".  what i do NOT mean is that he cannot run for election.  he can.  but under no circumstances SHOULD he be elected.

[moon/Laura]

Jun 12, 2023 15:34:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 12, 2023 15:09:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

any plea deal that does NOT bar him from office is a non-starter.  he will win on the tidal wave of victim-hood which he knows precisely how to surf.

the ONLY alternative is to sentence him to prison (if they can prove guilt, of course) for the remainder of his mortal life.  he is in such amazing health that he should be show no leniency for age.

As I am sure you know but posting this just in case anyone else isn't positive:

Can Trump run for president from prison? Yes, and it’s been done before.

There are no legal obstacles to running for president as a convicted felon or even from behind bars. And if Trump finds himself in that predicament, he’ll be following in the footsteps of another rabble-rousing populist and frequent presidential candidate: the avowed socialist Eugene V. Debs, who received nearly a million votes while in prison a century ago.

You know, I could maybe see this for lesser crimes. But how can they allow someone who is charged with the crimes Trump is to potentially do it AGAIN?! That's just insane to me.

[NastyWoman]

Jun 12, 2023 16:37:23 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Jun 12, 2023 15:34:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As I am sure you know but posting this just in case anyone else isn't positive:

Can Trump run for president from prison? Yes, and it’s been done before.

There are no legal obstacles to running for president as a convicted felon or even from behind bars. And if Trump finds himself in that predicament, he’ll be following in the footsteps of another rabble-rousing populist and frequent presidential candidate: the avowed socialist Eugene V. Debs, who received nearly a million votes while in prison a century ago.

You know, I could maybe see this for lesser crimes. But how can they allow someone who is charged with the crimes Trump is to potentially do it AGAIN?! That's just insane to me.

And the stuff of nightmares: if he were to win the "official" WH would become a federal prison! State dinners would become very interesting indeed. We would be the laughing sock of the entire world, banana republics included, and rightfully so.

ETA: I just gave away my age by lack of creative thinking. He could participate in everything via Zoom. Electronic records only - which would be under control of the National Archives from inception, etc. A bit of brainstorming will get us a long way. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 12, 2023 16:37:23 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Jun 12, 2023 15:34:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As I am sure you know but posting this just in case anyone else isn't positive:

Can Trump run for president from prison? Yes, and it’s been done before.

There are no legal obstacles to running for president as a convicted felon or even from behind bars. And if Trump finds himself in that predicament, he’ll be following in the footsteps of another rabble-rousing populist and frequent presidential candidate: the avowed socialist Eugene V. Debs, who received nearly a million votes while in prison a century ago.

You know, I could maybe see this for lesser crimes. But how can they allow someone who is charged with the crimes Trump is to potentially do it AGAIN?! That's just insane to me.

I like that there are very minimal requirements for someone to run for President. I don't think that "they" should exclude people. YMMV.

Now what would be insane to me would be American voters giving Trump the opportunity to do it again.

[andi9899]

Jun 12, 2023 11:19:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Is it weird that I read this to the tune of "if you're happy and you know it clap your hands?"

[happyhoix]

Jun 12, 2023 15:09:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

any plea deal that does NOT bar him from office is a non-starter.  he will win on the tidal wave of victim-hood which he knows precisely how to surf.

the ONLY alternative is to sentence him to prison (if they can prove guilt, of course) for the remainder of his mortal life.  he is in such amazing health that he should be show no leniency for age.

edit: since some seem to think that being a convicted felon would bar him from office, it wouldn't, nor did i state it would, here.

in fact, i am assuming he will be a convicted felon on or about the time he is in the general election next year.  it will not prevent him from running, and he will run.  so, what i am suggesting here is that we should find a way to prevent that LEGALLY.  i know that bills and i disagree on that, and that is fine.

to be extra clear, at this point, i think conviction is a better way to keep him out of office.  if he is convicted to prison, assuming nobody running would pardon him, that would end it, in all likelihood.  the best medicine would be Trump watching Biden get re-elected from his jail cell.  eventually, some Republican would probably win, and pardon him.  but that might not fix his legal issues, if they are at the state level.

then again, it might.

Speaking of pardons, Trump stated that once he gets elected, he’ll pardon himself. 

Then, he’ll smite the Biden criminal family. 

thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4045934-trump-vows-to-appoint-special-prosecutor-to-go-after-biden-if-former-president-wins-in-2024/

I hope the Dems get busy putting out campaign ads pointing out that Trump’s platform has zero to do with actually running the country and is 100% focused on vengeance. 

[Tennesseer]

Vermin Supreme for president!

[Opti]

Jun 11, 2023 10:02:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Interesting article.

A neuroscientist explains why certain Americans will never quit Trump no matter what the ex-president does

In the fiery theater of modern politics, few phenomena are as bewildering — and electrifying — as the ironclad loyalty of Donald Trump's followers.

Despite numerous political, legal and personal controversies, Trump is almost as popular as ever. On Thursday, he was hit with a 37-count indictment, which follows a Manhattan indictment, a federal indictment and a court branding him liable for sexual abuse. Looming still are the results of yet another federal investigation and separate Fulton County, Ga., probe.

And yet, Trump’s faithful fan base does not waver.

So, the psychological puzzle is, why hasn’t any of this hurt him? Not only has his popularity not been diminished, it seems that these events may have even strengthened his support.

Remember this classic Trump quote from 2016? “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,” the then-presidential candidate said. Chillingly, this bold proclamation seems to be truer than not, and that should disturb all of us, because that kind of blind loyalty poses a real threat to our democratic values and signals a trend toward authoritarianism.

To get to the heart of this enigma, let's put on our Sherlock Holmes hat and step into the world of psychology and neuroscience. A popular theory from social psychology known as terror management theory will shed some light on this puzzling human behavior.

Terror management theory is more relevant than ever because it provides an explanation for tribalism, which is really at the core of this mystery. The theory suggests that existential terror — which can be triggered by anything that is perceived to pose a threat to one’s existence — is the reason we adopt cultural worldviews, such as our religions, national identities or political ideologies. In an attempt to mitigate our fears, we latch onto philosophies that give our lives meaning and direction in a chaotic world.

But how does this explain tribalism, exactly?

Rest of article here: A neuroscientist explains why certain Americans will never quit Trump no matter what the ex-president does

I found this article on how trauma changes the brain, and I think it might be applicable to some conservatives. I think its probably true of 99% of his followers if not more. They are trained to fear and see problems everywhere, so being told its even worse than they thought feeds into their belief system.

neurosciencenews.com/salience-network-trauma-22026/

Exposure to trauma can be life-changing—and researchers are learning more about how traumatic events may physically change our brains. But these changes are not happening because of physical injury; rather, the brain appears to rewire itself after these experiences.



Understanding the mechanisms involved in these changes and how the brain learns about an environment and predicts threats and safety is a focus of the ZVR Lab at the Del Monte Institute for Neuroscience at the University of Rochester, which is led by assistant professor Benjamin Suarez-Jimenez, Ph.D.

“This tells us that patients with PTSD have issues discriminating only when there is an emotional component. In this case, aversive; we still need to confirm if this is true for other emotions like sadness, disgust, happiness, etc.,” said Suarez-Jimenez. “So, it might be that in the real-world, emotions overload their cognitive ability to discriminate between safety, danger, or reward. It overgeneralizes towards danger.”

I think this is where most Trump followers and Fox watchers have been programmed to. 

[laterbloomer]

Jun 12, 2023 16:56:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 12, 2023 16:37:23 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

You know, I could maybe see this for lesser crimes. But how can they allow someone who is charged with the crimes Trump is to potentially do it AGAIN?! That's just insane to me.

I like that there are very minimal requirements for someone to run for President. I don't think that "they" should exclude people. YMMV.

Now what would be insane to me would be American voters giving Trump the opportunity to do it again.

If I understand correctly it is possible for a convicted felon to run for President but they would not be allowed to vote for themselves.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 12, 2023 20:18:57 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jun 12, 2023 16:56:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I like that there are very minimal requirements for someone to run for President. I don't think that "they" should exclude people. YMMV.

Now what would be insane to me would be American voters giving Trump the opportunity to do it again.

If I understand correctly it is possible for a convicted felon to run for President but they would not be allowed to vote for themselves.

they would also not be allowed to campaign, travel, or wear a tie.

[laterbloomer]

Jun 12, 2023 21:29:25 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 12, 2023 20:18:57 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

If I understand correctly it is possible for a convicted felon to run for President but they would not be allowed to vote for themselves.

they would also not be allowed to campaign, travel, or wear a tie.

🤣

[billisonboard]

Jun 12, 2023 21:29:25 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 12, 2023 20:18:57 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

If I understand correctly it is possible for a convicted felon to run for President but they would not be allowed to vote for themselves.

they would also not be allowed to campaign, travel, or wear a tie.

Which might not be a bad thing for Trump.

[moon/Laura]

Jun 12, 2023 16:56:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 12, 2023 16:37:23 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

You know, I could maybe see this for lesser crimes. But how can they allow someone who is charged with the crimes Trump is to potentially do it AGAIN?! That's just insane to me.

I like that there are very minimal requirements for someone to run for President. I don't think that "they" should exclude people. YMMV.

Now what would be insane to me would be American voters giving Trump the opportunity to do it again.

But, there should still be SOME requirements along the lines of 'you can't have been indicted of crimes related to national security'! Because if you're depending on the voters to make sure he doesn't get back in, I'm not at ALL convinced they'll come through for us.