Elon Musk tirade about WFH peeps

[Opti]

Of course we knew more was coming, but enjoy Elon's latest tirade against laptop workers.
I think many CEOs and C Suiters think similarly. Will this impact your employment? How much do you think WFH will shrink now that we are officially out of the pandemic? 


www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/elon-musk-s-tirade-about-the-laptop-classes-living-in-la-la-land-is-the-latest-step-in-his-crusade-against-remote-working/ar-AA1biXKN?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b07eef07a5644ecd974a0eba2cbd66ff&ei=12

Musk's most recent attack on remote working came in a wide-ranging interview with CNBC on Tuesday. The billionaire suggested that people who work from home were detached from reality.


"It's like really, you're going to work from home and you're going to make everyone else who made your car come in [to] the factory?" Musk said.

"The people who make your food that gets delivered, they can't work from home? The people that fix your house, they can't work from home?"




Several tech firms have acknowledged that they over-hired during the pandemic, leading them to undertake significant rounds of layoffs that have impacted a lot of middle-manager roles that are laptop-based.



In the CNBC interview, Musk said that people working from home was as much a "moral issue" as it was a productivity one. Employees working for his other companies, Tesla and SpaceX, are expected to work in the office.

[busymom]

Sounds like maybe he's heavily invested in office buildings, and can't rent out the space.      Poor baby...

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 17, 2023 13:14:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sounds like maybe he's heavily invested in office buildings, and can't rent out the space.      Poor baby...

lol!

I don't see what over-hiring has to do with WFH? I am 100% WFH as is my entire departement. Luckily - my company owns the building we are housed in, so they made extensive renovation to the building while pandemic was raging and plan to rent it out. I suppose if they aren't as successful as landlords as they anticipated, then they may make us come back? teehee, I don't think I'd go

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 17, 2023 13:14:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sounds like maybe he's heavily invested in office buildings, and can't rent out the space.      Poor baby...

Or doesn't want the demand for cars to go down. 

[Tiny]

Sounds like maybe he's upset that lower level workers would be getting a perk that upper level workers get to enjoy.

Why should a lowly corporate desk jockey get to have the same flexibility in work hours that only upper management people would typically get?


FWIW: WFH just let me contract with a tree removal service without having to take anytime off of work. I can be home when the tree is removed without needing to take and time off of work and still be able to complete the required work for work. So much less stressful for me.


I'm betting there will be a push to decrease PTO for full time corporate workers (in one way or another).

For me - WFH means I'm no longer burning 5 or 6 days a year of vacation for "personal mundane stuff" like the tree removal or having the plumber out to do some work, or other stuff where I don't really need to do anything than be home to let them in or to get the invoice and pay it. Or a visit to the dentist (usually takes about 1.5 hours door to door.)


I don't WANT a decrease in PTO... I'm just saying I'm betting there will be a push to decrease it.

[Tiny]

Meh, to the office buildings being empty thing. How bad it will be, will be city by city.

The Big Name old time ginormous headquarter campuses in the suburbs where going the way of Malls and the dodo bird.
The Big Name 70 story office building housing ONLY the Big Name employees was also going the way of the dodo bird.

The pandemic and WFH just sped it up a bit.


A City needs to have a long term "plan" - and I would guess most Big Cities do have one. I'm pretty sure they were taking into account the dying off of the concept of Big Name Employers having thousands of employees in one place for the last decade or two.

The Cities that are just now going "oh shit! what are we gonna do! who knew this would happen!" did it to themselves.



Weren't there endless articles (for the last 20 years) about how everyone hated their commute? and how costly commutes were in terms or resources and pollution and quality of life? Maybe it's just that most of American life is dependent on the automobile... and with WFH maybe there will be less need for cars.

[swamp]

May 17, 2023 10:31:36 GMT -5 Opti said:

Of course we knew more was coming, but enjoy Elon's latest tirade against laptop workers.
I think many CEOs and C Suiters think similarly. Will this impact your employment? How much do you think WFH will shrink now that we are officially out of the pandemic? 


www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/elon-musk-s-tirade-about-the-laptop-classes-living-in-la-la-land-is-the-latest-step-in-his-crusade-against-remote-working/ar-AA1biXKN?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b07eef07a5644ecd974a0eba2cbd66ff&ei=12

Musk's most recent attack on remote working came in a wide-ranging interview with CNBC on Tuesday. The billionaire suggested that people who work from home were detached from reality.


"It's like really, you're going to work from home and you're going to make everyone else who made your car come in [to] the factory?" Musk said.

"The people who make your food that gets delivered, they can't work from home? The people that fix your house, they can't work from home?"




Several tech firms have acknowledged that they over-hired during the pandemic, leading them to undertake significant rounds of layoffs that have impacted a lot of middle-manager roles that are laptop-based.



In the CNBC interview, Musk said that people working from home was as much a "moral issue" as it was a productivity one. Employees working for his other companies, Tesla and SpaceX, are expected to work in the office.

I am suggesting that Elon is detached from reality.  

[Opti]

May 17, 2023 13:20:34 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

May 17, 2023 13:14:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sounds like maybe he's heavily invested in office buildings, and can't rent out the space.      Poor baby...

lol!

I don't see what over-hiring has to do with WFH? I am 100% WFH as is my entire departement. Luckily - my company owns the building we are housed in, so they made extensive renovation to the building while pandemic was raging and plan to rent it out. I suppose if they aren't as successful as landlords as they anticipated, then they may make us come back? teehee, I don't think I'd go

I think this might have been a Silicon Valley thing done by some businesses during the pandemic. Allegedly some Silicon Valley businesses hired tech workers they did not need and held onto them just in case. Other than that, I think it is a red herring for most of us.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 17, 2023 14:03:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 17, 2023 10:31:36 GMT -5 Opti said:

Of course we knew more was coming, but enjoy Elon's latest tirade against laptop workers.
I think many CEOs and C Suiters think similarly. Will this impact your employment? How much do you think WFH will shrink now that we are officially out of the pandemic? 


www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/elon-musk-s-tirade-about-the-laptop-classes-living-in-la-la-land-is-the-latest-step-in-his-crusade-against-remote-working/ar-AA1biXKN?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b07eef07a5644ecd974a0eba2cbd66ff&ei=12

Musk's most recent attack on remote working came in a wide-ranging interview with CNBC on Tuesday. The billionaire suggested that people who work from home were detached from reality.


"It's like really, you're going to work from home and you're going to make everyone else who made your car come in [to] the factory?" Musk said.

"The people who make your food that gets delivered, they can't work from home? The people that fix your house, they can't work from home?"




Several tech firms have acknowledged that they over-hired during the pandemic, leading them to undertake significant rounds of layoffs that have impacted a lot of middle-manager roles that are laptop-based.



In the CNBC interview, Musk said that people working from home was as much a "moral issue" as it was a productivity one. Employees working for his other companies, Tesla and SpaceX, are expected to work in the office.

I am suggesting that Elon is detached from reality.  

i think he wants a captive audience to faun on him....

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 17, 2023 13:28:14 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 17, 2023 13:14:41 GMT -5 busymom said:

Sounds like maybe he's heavily invested in office buildings, and can't rent out the space.      Poor baby...

Or doesn't want the demand for cars to go down. 

ooooooooo shady!!!

[swamp]

May 17, 2023 14:24:32 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

May 17, 2023 14:03:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

I am suggesting that Elon is detached from reality.  

i think he wants a captive audience to faun on him....

narcissistic personality disorder. 

[nittanycheme]

Its almost like different jobs have different requirements.  Who would've thought? 

[Opti]

May 17, 2023 14:56:16 GMT -5 nittanycheme said:

Its almost like different jobs have different requirements.  Who would've thought? 

Good or bad, CEOs like Musk who miss having people come in the office because he is sometimes, will force the issue for some employees. How much things change remains to be seen. Almost posted yesterday an article on all the retailers shedding jobs now or in the near future. Lot of that is going to be that things are different as we get out of the active pandemic stage.

There are people like those on my 600lb life that always seem to have remote jobs. I don't think remote jobs will disappear, but there will be less of them than there were during the pandemic. MO.

[azucena]

I went in mon/tues this week. I'm over people, business casual, and traffic.

I'm in Stl home office. My boss is remote from home in CT. Grandboss is here but could care less if I wfh. Great grandboss was hired during pandemic and is remote from home in NY. Great, great grandbiss is remote from home somewhere else in the northeast, also hired during the pandemic. None of them plan to move here and appear about once a month.

We've been told that tues/weds butts in seats would be nice. But I can't see them heavily enforcing it given the fully remote work of upper management. I'm planning to go in Tues for the summer. I've proven my worth so let someone say something to me.

[andi9899]

My job said come back to the office 1 day a week so I got a job in a completely different state. F that.

[chiver78]

May 17, 2023 17:56:26 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

My job said come back to the office 1 day a week so I got a job in a completely different state. F that.

I'm not far behind you. I just posted in another thread about the convo I had with my boss tonight about the upcoming in-person time requirements. looks like 2x/wk will be getting enforced after the summer. that's a pass for me, thanks. 

[tractor]

I can work from home, but prefer the hour commute and being with real people over staying home and hanging out with myself all day. I'm one of the weird ones, I know. However, being in the office has led to advancements that the wfh folks have missed.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 17, 2023 20:58:22 GMT -5 tractor said:

I can work from home, but prefer the hour commute and being with real people over staying home and hanging out with myself all day. I'm one of the weird ones, I know. However, being in the office has led to advancements that the wfh folks have missed.

Sorry, but that shitty management.

[raeoflyte]

I've been remote since 2018. I go in 1-2x a month when weather/roads are good. I think it's laziness when people say they can't collaborate remotely. Today I was in the office and sure it's nice to go to the next office for a question but between teams, text, phone and email I can always get the answer I need. It just takes the most miniscule amount of effort to remember greetings and pleasantries and collaborating remotely is easy. Considering my commute used to be 90 minutes a day, and now is 90 minutes 1 way at best I get way more done on wfh days.

[giramomma]

We've always had workplace flexibility. Butt-in-seat time was never valued in my workplace.

I can't imagine working in a place where management must be able to monitor me at all times. How does management get any work done? How do folks manage more than one person?

I mean, sure we did online school with 3 kids during the pandemic for a full year.

I don't know every.single. thing all three of my kids were doing at every single moment.

Our governor is reducing office space for public sector workers by 10% in a few years. It's going to be a good chunk of savings for taxpayers. I don't think we'll hear them complaining.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Considering my sister’s employer released the lease they have on their building, chances are nil that she’s getting called back to the office. The pandemic showed that their teams were MORE effective working at home. They were beating deliverable time schedules, not just meeting them.

My job would not allow me to WFH 100% of the time, but I did find ways where I could chunk my time to be able to spend a couple weeks/month or so in WA. I DID work more effectively while I was in WA. TD was at work and I could work undistracted. I did appreciate that my boss recognized that I could do this.

[Cookies Galore]

Elon Musk is why I would never give my money to Tesla, so I take what he word vomits with a grain of salt. That said...

Before the pandemic my work schedule was two days at home and three in the office. Half my team was on the M/Th home schedule and half was on T/F, so Wednesday was an unproductive gossip, meeting, and eating day since it was the only day we were all together (we really like each other). Now that we're fully remote I'm just a quick Teams chat, call, or email away. And the gossip/bitch sesh text group is flourishing.

Our executive leadership has no plan to force us back in any more time than we choose. I know my department VP likes that he can move his family down the shore for the summer and he would probably riot if he had to start going into the office weekly.

I go in about once a month if the weather is nice or I have an appointment (I still keep all my specialists who are by the office); obviously I go in if work required it. I do like that I don't have to commute in January or February anymore. I am productive as hell at home because I'm not chitchatting all day and not clock watching so I can log off at exactly 3:20 so I can make my preferred train transfer. I'm also not working more hours than I need to at home because I'm not as distracted by seeing work friends on my walk to the bathroom.

[scgal]

The Pandemic did open an opportunity for WFH. I tend to agree with Elon on this. In manufacturing the workers cannot work from home they have to work on the line, fixt machinery, program machinery etc. The mgmt, program managers, certain engineers can. There is pros and cons depending on if you go to work or work from home will be where you stand on this

pro WFH

No commuting

work in home clothes (sometime none)

not dealing with the office crowd 

being able to handle home needs 

overall happiness could lead to being more productive 

I'm sure there are more

Cons

Jealousy from the workers who have to go into work, usually lower paid line workers in manufacturing

Laziness creep not putting in a full days work

unavailability to the people who need to get intouch with the WFH people because they are doing non work stuff

sure there is more here too

[raeoflyte]

The argument that because some people can't work from home, no one should makes no sense. Some people can't make 6 figures so no one should? I doubt Elon is going to get behind that.

Dh can't work from home and he loves his job. It's his choice.

City infrastructure in my area has not kept up with the population. Congestion is awful, accidents are constant. My 90 minute 1 way commute was 2.5 hours on the way home. Nothing specific just accidents coupled with construction. I had more work to do when I finally got home, but I was beat just from the drive.

Wfh for those who can is a viable solution to reduce unnecessary traffic congestion.

[wvugurl26]

My dad, mom and brother can't work from home. I don't think that means no one should be able to work from home.

I had a conference the past 2 days. The last session yesterday, the lady said I've never had those random water cooler moments people try to advertise as a benefit unless I invited someone to walk with me! The head boss of my component tries to push it but the truth is she's been in another state since covid due to her elderly parents.

Traffic is awful, many of our offices are in unsafe areas so as to get affordable rent and our in office technology has gone downhill as compared to pre March 2020. We've also closed certain offices to save on rent. Everyone sits at their space working away. There's not much time for random conversations because we have too many damn meetings!!

I will give one day a week as that is what is required by law to comply with locality/duty station requirements.

I also don't make it up if I miss it due to training or whatever. I work with someone who went in Monday because we were going to miss Tuesday due to the conference. No one else was there. It's dumb as shit to go in just to say you went in. You saw no one but the security guards! There was no collaboration going on. He probably had crap to print.

[movingforward]

I require my team to come in 2 days a week. We all like each other, enjoy having lunch together, etc. I run a small office of only 7 people. I do think it helps to have everyone in at the same time twice a week. I like to sit down with my accountant and go over things in person. We could do it over zoom, but i prefer not to. I have one person who is still 100% WFH due to health issues and that is fine.

We all come into the office on Tuesday and Wednesday. Seems like most companies, at least in my area, have gone to a hybrid where people come in 2-3 days a week. In all honesty, I can't believe someone would up and quite a good paying job because they are asked to come into the office 1-2 days a week. You people must really hate those you work with or something.

[wvugurl26]

If you are actually making time to go through things in person that's one thing. My experience has been the opposite. And also 3/5 directors in my office are based in other states. Even before covid I worked primarily with people in other states across the country. It's the nature of a nationwide agency.

[movingforward]

May 18, 2023 8:09:39 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

If you are actually making time to go through things in person that's one thing. My experience has been the opposite. And also 3/5 directors in my office are based in other states. Even before covid I worked primarily with people in other states across the country. It's the nature of a nationwide agency.

I do think it is different for large companies like where you work. You are right in that it doesn't make a lot of sense to make people go in under those circumstances. With my company being so small we tend to like a little in person each week. We all like the social aspect of twice a week. Gives us the best of both worlds. No one in my office had any opposition to coming back in 2 days a week. Two of them leave around 2:30 on those days to go pick up their kids from school and then work the rest of the day from home. It's all very flexible. My team seems happy and we have longevity in my office. Everyone has been there for a minimum of 5 years. Most are over 10 years.

And a side note, I don't even keep track of the PTO everyone uses. No one seems to take advantage and the work is getting done. That's really all I care about.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Working in manufacturing my whole life, I think it does make a big difference if everyone is there so I get his factory reference.  When people on the floor are working 24/7 with mandatory OT and showing up no matter what the weather to meet quarter and year end goals set by management it is demoralizing to have the rest of the "team" sitting at home in their pajamas.  When I worked for Fastenal, the CEO/founder used to come out to the warehouse all the time and help unload trucks when things were busy.  Nothing was more motivating than not just being told what needed to be done by the higher ups, but them actually coming out and helping and patting you on the back for a job well done.  Here there are often emails going out during the last few weeks of the quarter asking for people to lend a hand on the floor.

[raeoflyte]

May 18, 2023 8:06:37 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I require my team to come in 2 days a week. We all like each other, enjoy having lunch together, etc. I run a small office of only 7 people. I do think it helps to have everyone in at the same time twice a week. I like to sit down with my accountant and go over things in person. We could do it over zoom, but i prefer not to. I have one person who is still 100% WFH due to health issues and that is fine.

We all come into the office on Tuesday and Wednesday. Seems like most companies, at least in my area, have gone to a hybrid where people come in 2-3 days a week. In all honesty, I can't believe someone would up and quite a good paying job because they are asked to come into the office 1-2 days a week. You people must really hate those you work with or something.

I don't hate who I work with at all and that's an interesting conclusion to come to given the actual reasons people are posting.

I do hate the commute. 90 minutes a day was exhausting and that was for 14 miles I think. I was hired by an office over 60 miles away because of my technical and interpersonal skills of working with people across the company. Even when I was in the office, the people I supported worked all over the state. I could have face to face conversations with them at most once a month, sometimes more like 2-3x a year.

Like I said above - it takes a little more effort since they're not in your face. It's easy to just ask the question on teams and move on, but I make a point to talk to my coworkers like I would in the office. I actually put myself out there more remotely. I almost never talked about my kids when I worked in the office unless it was to emphasize how much dh does. Now I say I'm asking for the day off to watch field day, or I'm running to pick up kid1, BRB. Kind of stuff. It's still less office chit chat than in person work, but not as superficial.