Elon Musk tirade about WFH peeps

[chiver78]

May 18, 2023 8:09:39 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

If you are actually making time to go through things in person that's one thing. My experience has been the opposite. And also 3/5 directors in my office are based in other states. Even before covid I worked primarily with people in other states across the country. It's the nature of a nationwide agency.

 this. we aren't held to specific days per week, and the boss is remote. I manage contract manufacturing. one site is in the same state, the rest require flights to get to. all of my technical contacts are in EU, and two of the team leads are out of state. the 3rd guy cancels half his meetings anyway. if I was adding or getting value from being there, I wouldn't be digging in my heels so badly about this. I got dumped in this role with no training, and have managed to swim not sink. so yes, I'll walk away from a well-paying job if this is the hill they choose to die on. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I can get his point about factory work as well.   Having been an essential worker who couldn't work from home I didn't begrudge people who could I did not appreciate the distinct class difference that was going on.  The WFH people got treated a lot better and were given a lot more patience/grace than we were.

We were expected to take on all their duties they could not do from home which was not fair.  There was no reason they couldn't have come in to help at least once a week once the major part of the pandemic was over.  Why should I be doing 2-3 people's jobs so someone else can sit at home in their PJs all day?

It affected the chain of command too because without being able to catch someone in their office I was at the mercy of whenever they decided to bother to check their emails.  Yet I was the one getting nasty emails and phone calls about why is there a hold going on? 

And it kept getting worse the longer it went on.  When parts of someone's job are vital to the person stuck in office IMHO then the second person also needs to be in office at least part of the day.  Or they should be expected and held accountable to being at their desk during X hours so I can reach them.

This is all shitty management both direct and from the higher ups of companies I 100% agree on that too.  In the type of environment I work in corporations are going to need to rethink things so I can get access to the people I need approval from consistently and their on site people aren't regularly getting the shaft. Perhaps figure out a perk those of us who have to be on site 40 hours a week can be extended as recognition we don't get the WFH perk. 

Otherwise they will continue to whine about "nobody wants to work anymore".

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 18, 2023 8:09:39 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

If you are actually making time to go through things in person that's one thing. My experience has been the opposite. And also 3/5 directors in my office are based in other states. Even before covid I worked primarily with people in other states across the country. It's the nature of a nationwide agency.

Yeah that is DH's company.  He is required to be in office 2 days a week.  Monday and Friday.  Last Monday he was the only person in the entire building.  All work was still going on through Teams and his direct boss is in St. Louis with no intention of moving to Omaha.

So why does DH have to have his ass in an office desk exactly? 

If his entire team was in 2 days a week that would make sense because then collaboration could go on and there are some things in his job that are better learned in person. 

But it's not.  It's his new manager is a boomer who believes there is no way you can do your job if you aren't in a cubicle.   Plus the real estate is costing them money so putting butts in seats helps there too.

To me his set up is stupid the type of work he does can be done 100% from home with minimal impact.  

[raeoflyte]

Part of my 2.5 hour drive home last night took me through a scenic tour of downtown. Tent cities to multi-million dollar high rises. In my imaginary ideal world actual empty office buildings would be converted to affordable/free housing units.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 18, 2023 9:04:18 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Part of my 2.5 hour drive home last night took me through a scenic tour of downtown. Tent cities to multi-million dollar high rises. In my imaginary ideal world actual empty office buildings would be converted to affordable/free housing units.

I read an article on CNN about how the next major crisis that will potentially collapse the American economy is business real estate.   All these offices sitting empty are decreasing their property values and causing investors to lose profit.

I was like Really?  Because workers saw through the whole collaboration BS we're going to try to force them into the office by blaming them for the collapse of America if they don't?

Wow, capitalism really depends on people being absolutely miserable in their jobs doesn't it?

[steph08]

If my company was to require a hybrid work schedule, I would definitely find another job. But that's because the HQ is in Illinois, and I'm in Pennsylvania.    I was hired as a fully remote worker, so yes, a new job would be required for me. My coworkers who are based near HQ usually do 3-4 days at home and 1-2 in the office - and they usually do Tuesday/Thursday because those are free lunch days! 

I usually see my coworkers on Zoom meetings at least three times/week, we're talking on Slack all the time, and I see them 2-4 times/year in person at HQ because my company actually believes in getting people together. At my last job, I worked with people for 5 years and never met them face-to-face because Marketing wasn't important enough to actually get the funds to meet in person (and we're talking trips from Pennsylvania to Virginia, which didn't even require airfare). 

[Cookies Galore]

Husband has been going to work this whole time since he's in manufacturing. He's in the art department and could do his job from home if he wanted but 1) he doesn't like working from home and 2) his company is antiquated and not set up for remote access. If he stayed home in the past because of weather then he'd email himself art files to work on his own laptop. I'd hate that, too! He also has to run films for the production floor, so at least one art department person has to be there (there's husband and his boss in the AD).

My job can easily be done from home since I'm an editor. Our facilities staff, security, and some rotating IT people were in office the whole time during the pandemic. There was a horrific event that happened in the building in 2020, and I do wonder how that affected the staff who were in the office this whole time. Those of us who were gone were protected, while security and facilities had to deal with something traumatic.

[movingforward]

May 18, 2023 8:42:15 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 18, 2023 8:06:37 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I require my team to come in 2 days a week. We all like each other, enjoy having lunch together, etc. I run a small office of only 7 people. I do think it helps to have everyone in at the same time twice a week. I like to sit down with my accountant and go over things in person. We could do it over zoom, but i prefer not to. I have one person who is still 100% WFH due to health issues and that is fine.

We all come into the office on Tuesday and Wednesday. Seems like most companies, at least in my area, have gone to a hybrid where people come in 2-3 days a week. In all honesty, I can't believe someone would up and quite a good paying job because they are asked to come into the office 1-2 days a week. You people must really hate those you work with or something.

I don't hate who I work with at all and that's an interesting conclusion to come to given the actual reasons people are posting.

I do hate the commute. 90 minutes a day was exhausting and that was for 14 miles I think. I was hired by an office over 60 miles away because of my technical and interpersonal skills of working with people across the company. Even when I was in the office, the people I supported worked all over the state. I could have face to face conversations with them at most once a month, sometimes more like 2-3x a year.

Like I said above - it takes a little more effort since they're not in your face. It's easy to just ask the question on teams and move on, but I make a point to talk to my coworkers like I would in the office. I actually put myself out there more remotely. I almost never talked about my kids when I worked in the office unless it was to emphasize how much dh does. Now I say I'm asking for the day off to watch field day, or I'm running to pick up kid1, BRB. Kind of stuff. It's still less office chit chat than in person work, but not as superficial.

Well, I actually wasn't referring to your post. I was referring to those that indicated they would up and quite if they had to commute to the office just 1-2 days a week. I just can't imagine me not mustering up the strength to go into the office 1-2 days a week unless there was some reason other than a commute. Taking no job unless it is 100% WFH is really going to cut out a lot of opportunities

[ArchietheDragon]

I work for a small to mid sized construction company.  We have about 250 trades employees and 75 to 100 admin employees.  We worked remote for a couple of months at the beginning of the pandemic, but have been 100% in the office since June/July 2020.   One of our reasons for wanting admin employees to be in the office is the argument that our trade employees can't work from home, so it doesn't feel right to let our admin employees works from home.  As a company we realize that we need to start being a little more flexible in order to attract younger employees, but we  haven't exactly figured out how to do that yet. 

[raeoflyte]

May 18, 2023 9:34:27 GMT -5 movingforward said:

May 18, 2023 8:42:15 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I don't hate who I work with at all and that's an interesting conclusion to come to given the actual reasons people are posting.

I do hate the commute. 90 minutes a day was exhausting and that was for 14 miles I think. I was hired by an office over 60 miles away because of my technical and interpersonal skills of working with people across the company. Even when I was in the office, the people I supported worked all over the state. I could have face to face conversations with them at most once a month, sometimes more like 2-3x a year.

Like I said above - it takes a little more effort since they're not in your face. It's easy to just ask the question on teams and move on, but I make a point to talk to my coworkers like I would in the office. I actually put myself out there more remotely. I almost never talked about my kids when I worked in the office unless it was to emphasize how much dh does. Now I say I'm asking for the day off to watch field day, or I'm running to pick up kid1, BRB. Kind of stuff. It's still less office chit chat than in person work, but not as superficial.

Well, I actually wasn't referring to your post. I was referring to those that indicated they would up and quite if they had to commute to the office just 1-2 days a week. I just can't imagine me not mustering up the strength to go into the office 1-2 days a week unless there was some reason other than a commute. Taking no job unless it is 100% WFH is really going to cut out a lot of opportunities

I still think it's interesting that you went to "must hate coworkers" if someone would get a remote job over hybrid.

I think the market will ebb and flow. If I couldn't get a remote job, I'd go back to in office but if I have the choice I'm definitely going to look for remote work first.

Working from home saves me time, money, and emotional bandwidth to use those resources in other areas. More than just commute but thats a lot of it. No make up, no hair drying time, cheaper wardrobe, gas/vehicle maintenance, significantly less unwinding time from my day and/or commmute. Eating lunch at home. More energy to "people" I the evenings.

Some people are energized by their jobs/careers and being around coworkers. I don't hate my job or my coworkers but its a means to an end, not my identity or purpose and remote work is huge for me in work/life balance.

[movingforward]

May 18, 2023 10:19:02 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 18, 2023 9:34:27 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Well, I actually wasn't referring to your post. I was referring to those that indicated they would up and quite if they had to commute to the office just 1-2 days a week. I just can't imagine me not mustering up the strength to go into the office 1-2 days a week unless there was some reason other than a commute. Taking no job unless it is 100% WFH is really going to cut out a lot of opportunities

I still think it's interesting that you went to "must hate coworkers" if someone would get a remote job over hybrid.

I think the market will ebb and flow. If I couldn't get a remote job, I'd go back to in office but if I have the choice I'm definitely going to look for remote work first.

Working from home saves me time, money, and emotional bandwidth to use those resources in other areas. More than just commute but thats a lot of it. No make up, no hair drying time, cheaper wardrobe, gas/vehicle maintenance, significantly less unwinding time from my day and/or commmute. Eating lunch at home. More energy to "people" I the evenings.

Some people are energized by their jobs/careers and being around coworkers. I don't hate my job or my coworkers but its a means to an end, not my identity or purpose and remote work is huge for me in work/life balance.

Well, of course it saves you time, money and emotional bandwidth. I feel that way on the days I WFH as well. All of that is still not a reason to quit a job because you might need to put on makeup and get out of your yoga pants 1-2 days a week (again, I'm not talking to you specifically). Not liking your co-workers was the only other thing I could come up with.

The list of jobs where people have to show up somewhere is a mile long, and most are showing up at least 4-5 days a week so (and I can't believe I am saying this), I might have to agree with Musk that some people are out of touch with reality. I don't have sympathy for anyone whining about having to go into the office a few hours a week.

[raeoflyte]

May 18, 2023 10:34:51 GMT -5 movingforward said:

May 18, 2023 10:19:02 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I still think it's interesting that you went to "must hate coworkers" if someone would get a remote job over hybrid.

I think the market will ebb and flow. If I couldn't get a remote job, I'd go back to in office but if I have the choice I'm definitely going to look for remote work first.

Working from home saves me time, money, and emotional bandwidth to use those resources in other areas. More than just commute but thats a lot of it. No make up, no hair drying time, cheaper wardrobe, gas/vehicle maintenance, significantly less unwinding time from my day and/or commmute. Eating lunch at home. More energy to "people" I the evenings.

Some people are energized by their jobs/careers and being around coworkers. I don't hate my job or my coworkers but its a means to an end, not my identity or purpose and remote work is huge for me in work/life balance.

Well, of course it saves you time, money and emotional bandwidth. I feel that way on the days I WFH as well. All of that is still not a reason to quit a job because you might need to put on makeup and get out of your yoga pants 1-2 days a week (again, I'm not talking to you specifically). Not liking your co-workers was the only other thing I could come up with.

The list of jobs where people have to show up somewhere is a mile long, and most are showing up at least 4-5 days a week so (and I can't believe I am saying this), I might have to agree with Musk that some people are out of touch with reality. I don't have sympathy for anyone whining about having to go into the office a few hours a week.

How is it whining? If someone can get a job with benefits they prefer and leave for them... that's capitalism - right? It could be work from home, more pto, better health insurance, almost anything.

Personally I've proven I can be more productive at home and can build strong warm relationships with new and existing team members. The only reason my job would want me I'm the office more is for feel good ideas. That is what I think people are pushing back against.

[raeoflyte]

My 20+ years in my current industry is about supporting people not in my location. So most of that was spent in an office, but phone calls and emails were how we always built relationships. Frequently I had a boss on site, but just as often my boss was in another office. I just can't see the touchy Feely supposed benefits of butts in seats, but maybe that's because I never had the benefit that just showing up meant I was achieving my objectives.

[movingforward]

May 18, 2023 10:47:22 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 18, 2023 10:34:51 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Well, of course it saves you time, money and emotional bandwidth. I feel that way on the days I WFH as well. All of that is still not a reason to quit a job because you might need to put on makeup and get out of your yoga pants 1-2 days a week (again, I'm not talking to you specifically). Not liking your co-workers was the only other thing I could come up with.

The list of jobs where people have to show up somewhere is a mile long, and most are showing up at least 4-5 days a week so (and I can't believe I am saying this), I might have to agree with Musk that some people are out of touch with reality. I don't have sympathy for anyone whining about having to go into the office a few hours a week.

How is it whining? If someone can get a job with benefits they prefer and leave for them... that's capitalism - right? It could be work from home, more pto, better health insurance, almost anything.

Personally I've proven I can be more productive at home and can build strong warm relationships with new and existing team members. The only reason my job would want me I'm the office more is for feel good ideas. That is what I think people are pushing back against.

Well, for the 3rd time I'm not talking about you specifically.

If having to show up 1-2 days a week is that big of a deal, then by all means people should find something else. I personally wouldn't quit a good paying job with people I liked for the simple reason I had to show up somewhere 1-2 days a week. There would have to be more of a reason for me to want to leave (e.g. I didn't like the work, the culture, or my co-workers). I make six figures and those jobs don't grow on trees.

And yes, when I see people on social media complaining about the fact they got called back into work 1-2 days a week I find that to be whiny and annoying. Just seems petty compared to the construction worker who shows up 5 days a week in 105 degree heat. That is just me...

I do understand the feeling that it is worthless to show up when no one else is there. I think it is ridiculous to ask people just to be there for no reason. That's why if companies are going to do a hybrid they should have people there on the same days so you can get the collaboration and social engagement.

[Opti]

May 18, 2023 10:34:51 GMT -5 movingforward said:

May 18, 2023 10:19:02 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I still think it's interesting that you went to "must hate coworkers" if someone would get a remote job over hybrid.

I think the market will ebb and flow. If I couldn't get a remote job, I'd go back to in office but if I have the choice I'm definitely going to look for remote work first.

Working from home saves me time, money, and emotional bandwidth to use those resources in other areas. More than just commute but thats a lot of it. No make up, no hair drying time, cheaper wardrobe, gas/vehicle maintenance, significantly less unwinding time from my day and/or commmute. Eating lunch at home. More energy to "people" I the evenings.

Some people are energized by their jobs/careers and being around coworkers. I don't hate my job or my coworkers but its a means to an end, not my identity or purpose and remote work is huge for me in work/life balance.

Well, of course it saves you time, money and emotional bandwidth. I feel that way on the days I WFH as well. All of that is still not a reason to quit a job because you might need to put on makeup and get out of your yoga pants 1-2 days a week (again, I'm not talking to you specifically). Not liking your co-workers was the only other thing I could come up with.

The list of jobs where people have to show up somewhere is a mile long, and most are showing up at least 4-5 days a week so (and I can't believe I am saying this), I might have to agree with Musk that some people are out of touch with reality. I don't have sympathy for anyone whining about having to go into the office a few hours a week.

I do agree with Musk that some people are very out of touch with the reality that many workers have to live day in day out and be paid much less than those that can WFH. I think Elon is out of touch with his wealth etc., I think this is likely a good argument that came from someone in his Telsa factory that had to be there or not get paid.

I work 6 days a week now, although Saturday is only a half day. Before I worked Sunday through Thursday, and not all the same hours. I often worked holidays and other shifts to make ends meet. In neither job am I scheduled for nor work 40 hours a week.
So yes us low paid workers are driving every day in and out otherwise we do not get paid. 

I do have it a little better than my prior the facility never closes job, as this is just a one shift a day kind of job. Some teams are stronger if they have to hang with each other during work hours. Not true for all. 

[raeoflyte]

May 18, 2023 11:01:45 GMT -5 movingforward said:

May 18, 2023 10:47:22 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

How is it whining? If someone can get a job with benefits they prefer and leave for them... that's capitalism - right? It could be work from home, more pto, better health insurance, almost anything.

Personally I've proven I can be more productive at home and can build strong warm relationships with new and existing team members. The only reason my job would want me I'm the office more is for feel good ideas. That is what I think people are pushing back against.

Well, for the 3rd time I'm not talking about you specifically.

If having to show up 1-2 days a week is that big of a deal, then by all means people should find something else. I personally wouldn't quit a good paying job with people I liked for the simple reason I had to show up somewhere 1-2 days a week. There would have to be more of a reason for me to want to leave (e.g. I didn't like the work, the culture, or my co-workers). I make six figures and those jobs don't grow on trees.

And yes, when I see people on social media complaining about the fact they got called back into work 1-2 days a week I find that to be whiny and annoying. Just seems petty compared to the construction worker who shows up 5 days a week in 105 degree heat. That is just me...

I do understand the feeling that it is worthless to show up when no one else is there. I think it is ridiculous to ask people just to be there for no reason. That's why if companies are going to do a hybrid they should have people there on the same days so you can get the collaboration and social engagement.

I'm not really talking about me either, Ive been remote since before the pandemic hired by offices that it isnt reasonable to commute to. Im using my experience as an example since I don't think I'm an anomaly.

Some jobs must be done on site, but making people go into an office because some jobs have to doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense to make people come in because management feels better seeing a full office, or any other reason outside of productivity which is what Musk is spewing.

[swamp]

I prefer to work at my office, although I am set up for remote work.     My commute is also no big deal.   

To each his own.  I get why some people can't or won't go to the office. 

[nittanycheme]

I currently work remotely almost exclusively.  If I had to drive into the office 2-3x a week, I would definitely be looking for another job.  I got a new role in my company last year; the person whose role I took over was based at the same manufacturing location I was in.  However, the powers that be decided to close that location, and so my home base moved from a site about 30 miles/45 min from my home to one 100 miles/2 hours (best case) from my home.  I have no desire to be a "super commuter"; I know that I would not be able to do that drive multiple times per week.  I also do not want to relocate at this point in my life; I currently live pretty close to my parents and need to go there at least a few times a week to help out with various things as my dad's health has declined and my mom just doesn't know how to do stuff around the house, or needs physical labor help.  Commuting that far would create an issue with that support, and moving would as well.  Not to mention, I like my house and where I live.  I don't want to move.  I have many meetings during the week; none would be able to be fully in person even if I was on-site.  I regularly meet with people around the world, and from multiple locations in the US and Puerto Rico.  And I appreciate all the people that do need to be on site to do their jobs; I felt bad for our manufacturing workers that they couldn't have that flexibility, but unfortunately that is the nature of different jobs.  Its like why I don't need to work 2nd shift or 3rd shift, or forced weekend overtime, while they may because they are in manufacturing.  Although in the pandemic, they actually appreciated that I kept myself and any germs I may have had at home! 

I have a multi-day meeting coming up at my home site at the end of the month; I am going to stay in a hotel that will not be reimbursed by my company because technically its my home location.  But I know from when I used to be reimbursed going to that site when I was based at the closer location that the cost to drive to and from is basically equivalent to the cost of a hotel room when mileage and tolls are taken into account.  That isn't even accounting for the 4 hours of driving, assuming no accidents/construction.  To be honest, I actually really like the new site - it has many amenities that my old site did not have, but I like my life too and that is a lot of time just staring at the road and hopefully not getting into accidents.

[teen persuasion]

I have a job where I *have* to be onsite - I'm interacting with patrons all day, plus the handling our physical items parts.  

But a lot of my nominal job duties could be done remotely (website, social media, training webinars, etc.)  There are times I'm frustrated that I can't get full time - DH always says I don't have to work where I do, I could go to a bigger library (read, bigger budget).  I could, but then I'd have a longer commute, AND I DON'T WANT THAT.  In fact, I hate needing to drive to work at all, especially in winter.  I often wish we lived just a bit closer to the village, so I could walk (and I would, I walked to work everyday when I worked at a college, even when I was 9 months pregnant, and loved it).  Commuting is a big waste of resources: money for a car/gas, time that could be spent doing something else.

You know, during lockdown we took turns working alone, one week at a time.  That was glorious - work one week, three weeks off.  But even having to drive in during that one week was much less pesty than usual - so many were working from home that traffic was minimal, not the crazy levels it's getting to be (even in my rural low-density region).


So, yeah, even though  I love my co-workers, and know there's really no good way to make my job fully WFH, and my commute is short -- I absolutely understand and agree with quitting a job that insists on in-person attendance for fully remote duties.  We all need to quit driving around unnecessarily, cut fossil fuel burning and road wear/tear and traffic congestion and...

[teen persuasion]

Interesting tweet about lawsuits filed by Twitter employees against Elon. Apparently he never planned to pay rent to landlords for Twitter headquarters.

[Tiny]

Pre-pandemic - many of my coworkers had 1hr plus train rides (usually an express train) AND a limited number of these trains each day. Miss the express and the train ride could be close to 2 hours long. And then there's the drive home or connecting with a bus.

Pre-pandemic these coworkers made the very tough choice to live far away from their high paying job. Doing this allowed their family to have a nice big house with a yard and to live without all the noise and bustle of the densely populated closer suburbs. Their "housing" expenses weren't necessarily less than if they have chosen to live closer to their job. They were spending the same amount - but getting a much bigger house (think 4 beds, 3 carholes, 6 bathrooms, a big greatroom, a big "family room" in the basement, and an elaborate front entrance that no one ever uses.) with a big yard. I think the long commute for one of the income earners was the "sacrifice" to be able to live that kind of life style.

And then WFH happened because of the pandemic. And suddenly the up to 4 hour a day commitment to getting to and from work was gone. As well as all the expenses of that commute.

I would think it's going to be very hard to get these kinds of people to go back to working in the office. Especially from people who have gotten use to NOT sacrificing to get to work everyday. They've got more time and more of their income to spend.    They get to enjoy their house/homelife something they didn't get to do during the years of 'going to the office'.  

[Tiny]

The big thing about WFH is the improvement in quality of life for employees.

Their commute is gone, they may avoid the expense of take out meals (no more fast food breakfast/coffee and lunches), they may purchase less clothing/shoes (no need to keep up with the latest work wear treads and clothing may last longer as it's not being worn daily.).

For me - going back to the office every day - adds expenses back into my monthly 'budget'. I might expect an pay increase if I'm going back to the office fulltime.

[chiver78]

you're spot on here, Tiny. for me personally, I went from voluntarily taking 2h each way (including a 1h15 train ride) to now driving ~2h each way. there is no train option to the new office, that I'd originally declined to move to. that wasn't a problem at the time, but now suddenly is. until they decided that the two are close enough (8.2mi) that it's "all the same campus" and I don't get any leeway for a site change.

and then the costs.....woof. breakfast and lunch out most in-office days, $9 or $4/day for parking based on which train I chose to take. oh, and $300/mo for that train pass.

[schildi]

People that work 100% remotely tend to lose their social skills, over time. I am seeing this a lot.

[daisylu]

I have only been WFH for about a month, but my social skills have definitely improved. Leaving a toxic environment helped though.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

May 20, 2023 15:59:04 GMT -5 schildi said:

People that work 100% remotely tend to lose their social skills, over time. I am seeing this a lot.

I disagree. I was hired as a remote worker. My team of 36-40 are almost exclusively remote including managers. They live all over the country. I don’t need to have an on-site job to maintain social skills. I have family, friends, and neighbors and I have a lot more time to spend with them. 

Not only that, I can take my work with me if necessary. My mom in FL was hospitalized 5 weeks ago. I packed up my work station and drove down to help her through her recovery while continuing to work and fulfill my deadlines.

[raeoflyte]

Yeah, I don't buy that. Wfh takes a little more communication than being in the office. The people in the office a lot of times don't want to do that. They prefer the chance meetings in the office which I suspect is where the breakdown happens, but even in office people leave and others don't know where they are, ignore emails, and have to be tracked down my cell/text. I go into the office 1-2 times a month but I think I get faster answers when I'm at home instead of waiting for people to come back in.

I do think that the pandemic broke a lot of people's give-a-fuck meter, but that is seen across work and personal communication universally. I advocate and speak up more now than I ever did before. I used to feel like I just had to accept almost everything as-is especially at work and now I pick up the phone to check in and state my preferred outcome. I haven't had any conflicts, but I don't shy away from difficult conversations the way I used to.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

how and why would someone lose their communication skills? Maybe they were never very good and you didn't notice in the churn, schildi -

written communication skills should be unaffected I would assume. What type of skills did they have previously that they are not showing now?

my team is 100% remote. We have conference calls all.the.time. It seems might be harder in the brady bunch view to escape others' notice whereas in a conference room sit in the corner no one notices....

then again, maybe peeps be quiet quittin and just don't care anymore

[trimatty471]

May 17, 2023 13:44:59 GMT -5 Tiny said:

“Weren't there endless articles (for the last 20 years) about how everyone hated their commute? and how costly commutes were in terms or resources and pollution and quality of life? Maybe it's just that most of American life is dependent on the automobile... and with WFH maybe there will be less need for cars.”

The commute is primary reason why I prefer WFH.  Not only the traffic, but it’s getting dangerous here in Philly.

[laterbloomer]

May 18, 2023 8:32:04 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Working in manufacturing my whole life, I think it does make a big difference if everyone is there so I get his factory reference.  When people on the floor are working 24/7 with mandatory OT and showing up no matter what the weather to meet quarter and year end goals set by management it is demoralizing to have the rest of the "team" sitting at home in their pajamas.  When I worked for Fastenal, the CEO/founder used to come out to the warehouse all the time and help unload trucks when things were busy.  Nothing was more motivating than not just being told what needed to be done by the higher ups, but them actually coming out and helping and patting you on the back for a job well done.  Here there are often emails going out during the last few weeks of the quarter asking for people to lend a hand on the floor.

I can see going in when you work at a company that produces physical products even if you are an office worker. In my case everyone in my company is remote. There is a head office that some people go into occasionally, but not often. We all have using Teams and Zoom down to a science.
And there is no loss of productivity. We are task oriented. As long as the job gets done everyone is happy. We might relax when things are slow, but we also work extra hours when the workload is heavier.