The Official 2024 Presidential Thread

[happyhoix]

Someone asked Trump about his Christian faith.

It went as badly as you would expect.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rambling-donald-trump-dodged-answering-a-question-about-his-christian-faith-at-campaign-town-hall/ar-AA1eeyIt?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=d03ab689544e4003ab4e5f470ed14b29&ei=53

Will this dislodge more of his Christian voters? I doubt it. Those that remain cling to the idea that he’s God’s imperfect tool - because God often uses broken vessels to work his will.

[djAdvocate]

the real question is: can they grow their numbers from the last election with hate?

i don't think they can.  after all, hate cuts both ways.

[billisonboard]

Jul 23, 2023 11:42:25 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the real question is: can they grow their numbers from the last election with hate?

i don't think they can.  after all, hate cuts both ways.

Turnout in key states is going to be a major issue. They may only have to maintain their numbers to win.

[Tennesseer]

Just another reason not to elect Pence. Cruelty at its worst.

Pence supports banning abortions for nonviable pregnancies, backing stricter laws than GOP rivals

WASHINGTON — Former Vice President Mike Pence called for a ban on abortions even when a pregnancy isn’t viable − a stance that sets him apart from his fellow GOP presidential candidates.

“I’m pro-life. I don’t apologize for it,” Pence told the Associated Press last week. “I just have heard so many stories over the years of courageous women and families who were told that their unborn child would not go to term or would not survive. And then they had a healthy pregnancy and a healthy delivery.”

The standard could mean pregnant people would have to carry a pregnancy to term, even if the child could not survive after being born.

While some Republican candidates on the campaign trail have avoided discussing abortion, Pence has made the issue a focal point of his campaign. He’s the only major candidate to support an abortion ban at six weeks, before many people are aware they’re pregnant. He has also supported pulling an abortion pill off the market, according to the Associated Press.

Rest of article here: Pence supports banning abortions for nonviable pregnancies, backing stricter laws than GOP rivals

[djAdvocate]

Jul 24, 2023 9:50:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Just another reason not to elect Pence. Cruelty at its worst.

Pence supports banning abortions for nonviable pregnancies, backing stricter laws than GOP rivals

WASHINGTON — Former Vice President Mike Pence called for a ban on abortions even when a pregnancy isn’t viable − a stance that sets him apart from his fellow GOP presidential candidates.

“I’m pro-life. I don’t apologize for it,” Pence told the Associated Press last week. “I just have heard so many stories over the years of courageous women and families who were told that their unborn child would not go to term or would not survive. And then they had a healthy pregnancy and a healthy delivery.”

so many that you might recall a few, Mike?
i am all ears.

[djAdvocate]

A pregnancy is nonviable if it cannot possibly result in a liveborn baby.

this definition limits the number of viable babies to....ZERO.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 24, 2023 9:58:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 24, 2023 9:50:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Just another reason not to elect Pence. Cruelty at its worst.

Pence supports banning abortions for nonviable pregnancies, backing stricter laws than GOP rivals

WASHINGTON — Former Vice President Mike Pence called for a ban on abortions even when a pregnancy isn’t viable − a stance that sets him apart from his fellow GOP presidential candidates.

“I’m pro-life. I don’t apologize for it,” Pence told the Associated Press last week. “I just have heard so many stories over the years of courageous women and families who were told that their unborn child would not go to term or would not survive. And then they had a healthy pregnancy and a healthy delivery.”

so many that you might recall a few, Mike?
i am all ears.

That was my thought too. Pence needs to be in the delivery room when a woman was told her fetus was no viable months earlier, was denied an abortion early in her pregnancy, and now expels a blob of confused cells.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 24, 2023 10:15:22 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 24, 2023 9:58:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

so many that you might recall a few, Mike?
i am all ears.

That was my thought too. Pence needs to be in the delivery room when a woman was told her fetus was no viable months earlier, was denied an abortion early in her pregnancy, and now expels a blob of confused cells.

i am so sick of the anecdotes.  "I have heard of many ...." is a pretty stupid way to justify a position.  what a person hears is not necessarily the truth.  pro-lifers have every reason to LIE about what their doctors have told them about the viability of their fetuses.  i would trust the opinion of pro-choice doctors on this.  i would expect them to be reasonable about "miracles" happening, and say something like "such cases are extremely rare".  they are paid to be accurate.  and then i would ask the same question of them: extremely rare means what?  how often?  how often is a pregnancy which has been declared non-viable turn out to be viable?

[pulmonarymd]

There are no miracles.
Little in medicine is 100%. Hence, when something happens that shows we were wrong, it is a "miracle".
Frequently, things that were "miracles" do not turn out so great. What was the quality of life of those infants that were "nonviable"? How many medical procedures needed to be done?

Anecdotes are not data. Haven't we been through enough of this with all the claims about treatments for COVID?

[happyhoix]

Maybe the stories he heard were from years ago, prior to ultra sounds and DNA testing. I’m sure it was possible to miss the fetal heart beat when all you had was a stethoscope.

Technology has come a long way. A woman forced to carry a fetus that developed without a brain has the same elevated risk of death in childbirth that a woman having a normal baby would have, except for all that risk she only gains a baby that dies at birth. Seems more pro- life to abort the fetus that will die and therefore reduce the mom’s risk of death so she could try again to have a baby that can survive.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 18, 2023 8:03:26 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Anyone else watching RFK Jr?       His father is rolling in his grave.  What a way to tarnish a legacy. 

Karl Rove roasts DeSantis for floating RFK Jr. to lead health agencies: ‘This guy’s a nut’

Longtime Republican strategist and Fox News contributor Karl Rove is blasting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) for floating the idea of Robert Kennedy Jr. leading U.S. health agencies if DeSantis is elected president.

DeSantis, a candidate for the GOP nomination for president, suggested during a recent interview with conservative outlet OutKick he would “sic” RFK Jr., a well-known anti-vaccine activist, on agencies like the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) if he were elected president.

Calling the idea “nutty,” Rove pulled out his trademark whiteboard during an appearance on Fox News and said “it is not just health care that Robert Kennedy is a conspiracy buff on. He’s got lots of conspiracies.”

“2004 election was stolen as computers switched nearly a quarter million votes in Ohio from John Kerry to George Bush and thereby gave him the election, 5G is a mass surveillance tool and the telecomms, the telephone companies, are in on it. CIA killed his uncle, Sirhan Sirhan didn’t kill his father,” Rove said listing off a number of unfounded claims Kennedy Jr. has floated.

“And he defends Russia in Ukraine, it’s all Ukraine’s fault Russia invaded them and is killing its people. I mean, this guy’s a nut,” Rove said.

Kennedy is running as a Democrat for president and has sparked widespread backlash for his comments on vaccines and the coronavirus pandemic, which he recently said was engineered to avoid infecting Chinese and Jewish people.

DeSantis has recently retooled his campaign as he lags behind former President Trump in most Republican primary polls.

Karl Rove roasts DeSantis for floating RFK Jr. to lead health agencies: ‘This guy’s a nut’

[djAdvocate]

Rove is right.  he is a nut.

if it were not for his name, he would be polling at 1.5%, rather than 15%

[Tennesseer]

Jul 27, 2023 16:53:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Rove is right.  he is a nut.

if it were not for his name, he would be polling at 1.5%, rather than 15%

I agree. Even one of JFK's grandsons dislikes him.

[thyme4change]

If a train wreck was a person - it would be RFK Jr.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 27, 2023 17:12:39 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If a train wreck was a person - it would be RFK Jr.

i don't get how someone as messed up as he is can even become a representative.

i don't mean that unkindly.  i don't dislike the guy.  but usually someone with his history ends up in an institution or on permanent welfare.  not on Capitol Hill.

[thyme4change]

Jul 27, 2023 17:52:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 27, 2023 17:12:39 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If a train wreck was a person - it would be RFK Jr.

i don't get how someone as messed up as he is can even become a representative.

i don't mean that unkindly.  i don't dislike the guy.  but usually someone with his history ends up in an institution or on permanent welfare.  not on Capitol Hill.

Not these days. The inmates are truly running the asylum.

[billisonboard]

Jul 27, 2023 17:52:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 27, 2023 17:12:39 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If a train wreck was a person - it would be RFK Jr.

i don't get how someone as messed up as he is can even become a representative.

i don't mean that unkindly.  i don't dislike the guy.  but usually someone with his history ends up in an institution or on permanent welfare.  not on Capitol Hill.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr bio He never has been one.

[djAdvocate]

i remember when a former prostitute got elected to the Italian parliament.
i thought it was cute.
not sure how i feel about it any more.

(though, candidly, many prostitutes in later life are pretty amazing people, if they survive it)

[Tennesseer]

NYT article. Behind pay wall for some.

Column: Trump’s Big Lie and the Republican Etch A Sketch strategy

BY MARK Z. BARABAK
COLUMNIST
JULY 27, 2023 5 AM PT

Some things are so obvious, they scarcely bear mention.

Birds fly. Fish swim. Politicians say things they hope will get them elected.

That’s not as terrible as it might sound.

Candidates could have the most ingenious proposal to, say, banish poverty and end hunger, but what good is that if they can’t win office and at least try to implement their vision?

There is, however, an important qualitative difference between telling voters what they’d like to hear or dialing an issue up or down depending on the audience and knowingly, calculatedly telling a flat-out lie.

Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. That is an incontrovertible fact.

And yet for many Republicans — including most of those seeking the party’s 2024 nomination — Trump’s irrefutable loss and direct responsibility for the Jan. 6 insurrection are a verity they dodge and duck.

At least right now.

Florida’s flailing governor, Ron DeSantis offers a prime example.

The won’t-back-down-culture warrior, who gleefully stoops to swat at teachers and transgender people, meekly tucks his tail when it comes to Trump’s Big Lie and Jan. 6.

DeSantis won’t say if he believes President Biden was duly elected and suggests it’s wrong to call the assault on the Capitol “a plan to somehow overthrow the government of the United States” — though how else would you define a violent attempt to overturn the result of a free and fair election?

Column: Trump’s Big Lie and the Republican Etch A Sketch strategy

[moon/Laura]

Tenn, we still cannot post a full article, even in a spoiler, even with a source link.

[billisonboard]

Here are some numbers and professional support for my previously stated contention that turnout in 2024 will be the major factor:

Bill McInturff, the lead GOP pollster on the survey, points out that in the poll Trump led 93%-1% among those who voted for him in 2020, while Biden led 93%-3% among his 2020 supporters. “The two partisan coalitions are locked down and difficult to move,” McInturff said. Unexpected changes in the electorate’s composition – for instance whether youth turnout is higher or lower than anticipated – would be more likely to change the outcome in a rematch than movement toward or away from each man among the key voter groups, McInturff believes. link

[tbop77]

‘Go back to Florida’: DeSantis drowned out by hecklers at Iowa campaign stop


www.wfla.com/news/politics/go-back-to-florida-desantis-heckled-at-iowa-campaign-stop/

If he was half as smart as he thinks he is, he would have waited till 2028 to run.  But then, the best thing to come out of it is Trump has ruined his career.  He can slither off like Mike Pence.  Maybe some good will come from Trump's showing his ass to the country.  

[Opti]

IMO DeSantis hurt his campaign himself. Trump heckling was expected and while it has an impact, I think DeSantis's actions have derailed him more. 

Plus, per the article this was a small progressive group, so Trump stuff probably meant nothing but DeSantis's actions in Florida did.

"“Go back to Florida,” “Ron DeFascist,” and “Fascist Ron” were among the chants used to interrupt the Florida governor’s conversations with locals.



Heather Ryan, who appeared to lead the social justice group, said she’s been a party to progressive movements that encouraged activists to bake cookies for lawmakers in an attempt to sway opinions."

[billisonboard]

There are multiple factors involved in timing for a presidential run.  2024 has no GOP incumbent. 2028 there might be one. Or there could be a second term Trump Vice President who would have a strong advantage. Someone running now might end up being that person. Even if Trump does get the nomination and loses again, his VP candidate might still have an advantage in the Republican primary election in 2028. Things to consider. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I saw my first DeSantis campaign ad yesterday.

I threw up in my mouth a little.

He's trying to be Trump but I noticed he lacks the bombastic cult of personality Trump has.

Is being Trump like in policy enough for him to win? IDK. I doubt it for Trumps base but maybe there are enough voters who like Trumps policies but hate the man himself that would choose DeSantis.

Then the bigger question is if he secured the nomination can he win the presidency if all of Trumps fan base stays home to pout and Biden voters remember 2016 and 2020.

[happyhoix]

DeSantis has made his campaign all about being woke, I think that’s backfiring.

Gop has traditionally been the party of big business and less governmental interference. DeSantis going after Disney and strong arming schools to teach state approved materials looks like governmental interference. He wants to appear tough but just looks whiny.

[Opti]

Aug 13, 2023 9:53:03 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

DeSantis has made his campaign all about being woke, I think that’s backfiring.

Gop has traditionally been the party of big business and less governmental interference. DeSantis going after Disney and strong arming schools to teach state approved materials looks like governmental interference. He wants to appear tough but just looks whiny.

I think Christie branded him correctly. He is the party of big government. It's just leaning to conservative ideals.

[billisonboard]

The school issue is tricky because it is government against government. It is state over local control which used to be an issue with Republicans but that has changed with "radical" urban populations in red states. 

[Tennesseer]

Aug 13, 2023 7:34:02 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

‘Go back to Florida’: DeSantis drowned out by hecklers at Iowa campaign stop


www.wfla.com/news/politics/go-back-to-florida-desantis-heckled-at-iowa-campaign-stop/

If he was half as smart as he thinks he is, he would have waited till 2028 to run.  But then, the best thing to come out of it is Trump has ruined his career.  He can slither off like Mike Pence.  Maybe some good will come from Trump's showing his ass to the country.  

DeSantis was elected for a second term as governor in 2022. Florida constitution does not allow a citizen to have three consecutive terms as governor. He would have to wait four years to run a third time (2030).

So if DeSantis wanted to run in 2028, he would not be running as a sitting governor.

Out of sight - out of mind?

[djAdvocate]

there are very few people using Woke as a campaign idea at this juncture.  Meatball Ron is one of them.