The Official 2024 Presidential Thread

[djAdvocate]

Jun 7, 2023 5:26:57 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 6, 2023 23:29:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i didn't want to, but i just looked up Trump's favorability rating.  i figured it had kept climbing since April.

i was wrong.  his favorability has dropped down again.  it is now about "average" for the last (12) months= 42%.  this is quite comparable to Biden's approval numbers.

i continue to contend that Biden can beat Trump again, and i also think that half the candidates running would do better than Trump.  part of me wishes for Trump to be the nominee.  but it is so dangerous for the US for that to happen that it is like wishing for heroin.

Remember most of Trump's sheeple only see positive news about him. That and lies meant to make him look good. They are not living in reality from what I can tell. Tommy Tuberville actually thinks voters who vote Democrat will switch to Trump because of the condition of the country. There must be something in the water or air of these most corruptible GOPers. Apparently, Mr. Tuberville violated the stock act 132 times and is a big trader of MS stock.

Perhaps when you feel you are above the law or you can ignore ones you think are stupid, your tether to reality is so weak you'll believe anything.    (Almost posted the article on Tuberville yesterday. If someone wants to find it that would be great. Full day today so will not look for that until tonight at earliest.)

they must mean something different by "the economy" than i do.

under Trump, the economy crashed.
under Biden, it has soared.

it is not even close.  Biden has the best growth and employment record since Carter.

[pulmonarymd]

You are looking at it objectively.
For them it is all about feelings. Facts do not matter

[djAdvocate]

Jun 7, 2023 13:10:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You are looking at it objectively.
For them it is all about feelings. Facts do not matter

there are only THREE possibilities (or some combination):

1) they are being fed a steady stream of bullshit
2) they are looking at some tiny aspect of the economy, like inflation
3) they are obsessed with egalitarianism, and see it as a threat.

from where i sit, here is what i see:

average 3.4% GDP Growth over the last (2) years -vs- 2.5% under Trump.
UE is at a (50) year low.  what more can be said about that?
inflation is +4% since Biden took office, but is plummeting.
NOTE: the historic NORM for inflation is just north of 3%.
NOTE2: inflation is a signifier of a HOT economy, not a cold one.

i could go on and on, but i won't.  you can bet that Biden will, though:


www.politifact.com/article/2023/feb/06/whats-the-economic-state-of-the-union-under-joe-bi/#:~:text=3%20event%20at%20the%20White,product%20during%202022's%20fourth%20quarter.

[minnesotapaintlady]

The people I hear complaining about the economy are 1) Inflation and 2) 401K in the toilet (although they can't really say that anymore)

[Opti]

Jun 7, 2023 18:27:58 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

The people I hear complaining about the economy are 1) Inflation and 2) 401K in the toilet (although they can't really say that anymore)

In the complex it is rent increases out-pacing raises and/or the necessity of multiple jobs to stay housed. 

[Opti]

Jun 7, 2023 13:28:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 7, 2023 13:10:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You are looking at it objectively.
For them it is all about feelings. Facts do not matter

there are only THREE possibilities (or some combination):

1) they are being fed a steady stream of bullshit
2) they are looking at some tiny aspect of the economy, like inflation
3) they are obsessed with egalitarianism, and see it as a threat.

from where i sit, here is what i see:

average 3.4% GDP Growth over the last (2) years -vs- 2.5% under Trump.
UE is at a (50) year low.  what more can be said about that?
inflation is +4% since Biden took office, but is plummeting.
NOTE: the historic NORM for inflation is just north of 3%.
NOTE2: inflation is a signifier of a HOT economy, not a cold one.

i could go on and on, but i won't.  you can bet that Biden will, though:


www.politifact.com/article/2023/feb/06/whats-the-economic-state-of-the-union-under-joe-bi/#:~:text=3%20event%20at%20the%20White,product%20during%202022's%20fourth%20quarter.

Had a customer not too long ago speak about grocery prices. I had to point out that no President can affect that in general. I am really hoping as we get out of the pandemic things will normalize and grocers will have to drop at least some of the price gouging.

Today and yesterday though the big news is air quality. Decided to wear a surgical mask for my walks to and from the bus stops today. Since things were so bad walking back with my eyes, I decided to stop using the mask for half of my walk home and put my sunglasses on instead to protect my eyes. 

[happyhoix]

Chris Christie came out hard against Trump, calling him a mirror hog and Ivanka and Kushner grifters.

So is he actually trying to win the presidency, or is he specifically on a mission to bring Trump down and clear the path for another GOP candidate to step through?

[Opti]

Jun 7, 2023 19:44:13 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Chris Christie came out hard against Trump, calling him a mirror hog and Ivanka and Kushner grifters.

So is he actually trying to win the presidency, or is he specifically on a mission to bring Trump down and clear the path for another GOP candidate to step through?

IMO he is going for the win. Read one of the recent books he wrote which included up to the first year or so of the Trump presidency. He had been approached by big money donors in the past but did not feel the time was right for him to run and win. He was speaking out against Trump prior to the 2024 campaign season.

[pulmonarymd]

I think Christie will be the only one willing to get in the mud with trump. It will be interesting to see how trump deals with it

[djAdvocate]

Jun 7, 2023 21:13:04 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I think Christie will be the only one willing to get in the mud with trump. It will be interesting to see how trump deals with it

he will resort to school yard bullying.  but Christie is pretty tough.
i doubt he will bend.  and he might dish it back.  which would be
pretty damned funny.

[djAdvocate]

let's just all agree that Trump is a bloated piece of fetid horsemeat.

we can make T-Shirts, and encourage others to call him by his rightful name.

including Christie.

[djAdvocate]

in the politifact article there was this question:


All of those statistics were accurate. Yet the first question a reporter asked him when his prepared remarks were done was, "Do you take any blame for inflation?"

i have a pretty good reply for that question:

"If by that you mean do I take the blame for inflation that was 2% lower than Europe, you bet.  Any time you are doing better than your nearest competitor, you are doing pretty well, would you not agree?".

that answer not only addresses the question, but shows the ignorance of it.  would make the reporter look like a complete tool.  if he persisted, you can pull this one:

"You are aware, of course, that inflation is a global phenomena?  And no doubt you are also aware that inflation is a sign of robust economic growth, right?  When inflation is 1%, there is no way to grow the economy 4%- there is simply not enough gas in the can.  And businesses know this, and keep prices down.  So, yeah, we did very well here, creating 12M jobs and having below average inflation.  That is the TRUE measure of how you are doing- not the fake one that you are trying to peddle."

[tbop77]

Sure, Mike, keep telling yourself that!!!  

VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Look, I know the people in our movement, and I can honestly tell you that they’re some of the best people in this country. They love America and they love our Constitution. And I have every confidence, as we carry our campaign forward and we articulate not only the way we kept faith with the Constitution on one day, but our determination to lead our party on that broad, conservative agenda that’s delivered not just great victories for the Republican Party, but for the American people over the last 50 years, I have every confidence that this party will come together after a good and vigorous primary and will deliver a great victory in 2024.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-many-of-them-were-wearing-maga-hats-though-chuck-todd-keeps-interrupting-pence-to-ask-if-he-s-attracting-any-trump-fans/ar-AA1cI9aJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b2953c26d8a34c4b9a29a8d0e2df96a9&ei=10

[djAdvocate]

well, it really depends on what he means by "our people".

if there is NO overlap between his people and Trump's, it might be accurate.
of course, it might not be accurate, either.

[tbop77]

Don't ya just hate it when you save 100 million lives and you can't talk about it?  



During the second part of Bret Baier‘s Fox News interview, Donald Trump praised his own response to Covid-19 under the guise of humility, saying, “There are people that say I saved 100 million lives — I don’t even talk about it.”


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/with-a-straight-face-trump-suggests-he-saved-100-million-lives-and-says-i-don-t-even-talk-about-it/ar-AA1cOsxI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=40ea7251873f44b2b4451342d49796db&ei=14

[billisonboard]

He doesn't talk about his wonderful health care plan nor his middle class tax cut either.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

It was painful to watch that interview. trump lies about so much and takes credit for things he never did. Turns the question into a rant on DeSantis, Dr Fauci and dems. I'm beginning to think he really believes his version of facts. He has lost touch with reality.

[tallguy]

Jun 21, 2023 10:43:26 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

It was painful to watch that interview. trump lies about so much and takes credit for things he never did. Turns the question into a rant on DeSantis, Dr Fauci and dems. I'm beginning to think he really believes his version of facts. He has lost touch with reality.

That hold has been tenuous at best for decades.  I doubt he had much touch with reality even as the five-year-old he prides himself on being.  

[djAdvocate]

Jun 21, 2023 6:34:27 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Don't ya just hate it when you save 100 million lives and you can't talk about it?  



During the second part of Bret Baier‘s Fox News interview, Donald Trump praised his own response to Covid-19 under the guise of humility, saying, “There are people that say I saved 100 million lives — I don’t even talk about it.”


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/with-a-straight-face-trump-suggests-he-saved-100-million-lives-and-says-i-don-t-even-talk-about-it/ar-AA1cOsxI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=40ea7251873f44b2b4451342d49796db&ei=14

there are NO people that say that.  zero.  zip.

yet people let him get away with saying this shit.

[djAdvocate]

here is a quote from the campaign trail.  

DISCLAIMER: this came from a right wing news feed.  i have no doubt it is true, but they are so unreliable that anything is possible:


“Lockdown Ron DeSantis shut Florida down during the pandemic, much more so than other states,” Trump War Room declared. “Now he’s trying to gaslight the American people into thinking otherwise.”



The post, which contained a 30-second ad targeting DeSantis, concluded, “He’s a liar and a fraud who can’t be trusted.”

i think this is funny, because DeSantis is running RIGHT of Trump, and Trump is trying to hem him in by lying about him.  DeSantis was WAY more libertarian on CV19 than was recommended by practically everyone, including the Trump WH.  he has absolutely NO ground to stand on, here.  but, to paraphrase him, he is trying to gaslight the American people into thinking otherwise.

[djAdvocate]

the last time Trump was indicted, his favorability went up 8%.  EIGHT.  

in the month leading up to June 9th, it fell back again, but only HALF of that.  i was really concerned that it would pop up ANOTHER 8%.  in other words, i was worried that every time he got indicted it would ADD to his popularity.  and if that had happened, his favorability would have been THE HIGHEST OF HIS POST PRESIDENTIAL LIFE.

well, guess what?  since June 9th, his favorability has DROPPED 1.5%.  it is now just 2% above his post presidential low of 37%.  and it is dropping.

so, yeah.  i guess repeated blows to the head eventually have the desired impact even if the first one doesn't.

[billisonboard]

Good opinion piece. Worth the read: Opinion: A cautionary tale about the original martyr of White working-class Americans

Contrary to popular belief, Trump does not command a cult of personality because of his perceived virtue. He has come to embody the struggles, imperfections and grievances of many of his supporters. His prosecution is their own.

[Tennesseer]

Very interesting, billisonboard .

Similar thoughts in article below.

Finally, another reason that Trump supporters may be stubborn in their support is that they crave consistency (i.e. behavioral integrity) in their own words and actions as well as in their leader's. Robert Cialdini, the guru of psychological influence, calls this the "Consistency" Principle of Persuasion, which holds that once people commit to an idea or course of action, they naturally wish to remain consistent with it because if they do not, it creates the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

Here Is Exactly Why Trump's Supporters Like Him

[Opti]

HIs supporters love him because they believe he hates or fears the same things they do. That's why I think there was such a push back on accepting the vaccine when Trump tried that out in a couple of his rallies.


but they do not care so long as he is consistent about the things that they care about most, and that he consistently goes after those they do not like, be they immigrants, career politicians, or liberal media.
To me this is the key idea in that article that I find to be true. I think his supporters in general are much less reflective than most and once they make a decision they do not like revisiting it. I think it goes into the desire that life be black and white for far too many conservatives.

I do not like finding out I am wrong, but I find it more painful to cling to a wrong idea than to update my beliefs and actions when I am made aware of new info.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 25, 2023 9:29:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Very interesting, billisonboard .

Similar thoughts in article below.

Finally, another reason that Trump supporters may be stubborn in their support is that they crave consistency (i.e. behavioral integrity) in their own words and actions as well as in their leader's. Robert Cialdini, the guru of psychological influence, calls this the "Consistency" Principle of Persuasion, which holds that once people commit to an idea or course of action, they naturally wish to remain consistent with it because if they do not, it creates the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

Here Is Exactly Why Trump's Supporters Like Him

so, people like Trump because he is consistently awful?

i am starting to really dislike "human nature".

[djAdvocate]

just checked Trump's favorability again.  he is down ANOTHER 1/2%.  this is his worst six weeks since he left office.  he is falling about 1% per week.

[djAdvocate]

i might conceivably vote for this person in 2024:



and don't give me the bullshit about me causing Biden to lose.
i am from a state that voted for Biden by a factor of 5M or something.
i can afford to vote for who i want to.
if you lived here, you could have the same liberty.  

[billisonboard]

Jun 25, 2023 12:59:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i might conceivably vote for this person in 2024:



and don't give me the bullshit about me causing Biden to lose.
i am from a state that voted for Biden by a factor of 5M or something.
i can afford to vote for who i want to.
if you lived here, you could have the same liberty.  

Looks like a great Head of State. Would like some evidence she has the skills to be Chief Executive Officer.

[djAdvocate]

the independent state legislature theory got shot down today.
another major loss for Eastman.

a great day for America.  the SCOTUS can only be pushed so far.

[thyme4change]

Jun 25, 2023 12:55:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

just checked Trump's favorability again.  he is down ANOTHER 1/2%.  this is his worst six weeks since he left office.  he is falling about 1% per week.

I have been wondering where the breaking point is for the GOP. There are a set of people who will be buried wrapped in their Trump flags - but I believe there is a critical mass of republicans that are peeling away because they are tired of his bullshit. At what point can we see all of the politicians who were ‘never trump’ and then became pro-Trump switch back to being anti-Trump.

I haven’t been paying too much attention recently, but it seems like a lot of national Republican politicians are being fairly silent about Trump. Maybe I am just missing their public support on purpose? I will take silence over support at this time. Hopefully it will grow into criticism soon.