Roe vs Wade Overturned!

[andi9899]

Aug 5, 2022 9:01:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 5, 2022 8:35:48 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

This is a very different issue. I feel like I definitely have the right to vote on something that directly affects me and may be a matter of life or death for me. The other things matter too, but this definitely hits home.

And another issue is different, may be life or death, and hits home for someone else. And yet another issue is different, may be life or death, and hits home for them. And it goes on and on. One example that comes to mind is just about every expenditure in the military budget could fit for our country's service members. How do we decide where to draw the line?

I don't know but the government definitely should not have the right to decide what happens with my body. There are no laws out there to my knowledge that govern what a man can do with his body. Why don't women deserve equal rights?

[thyme4change]

Princeton University study: Public opinion has “near-zero” impact on U.S. law.

Does public opinion affect the political process? Gilens & Page found that the number of Americans for or against any idea has no impact on the likelihood that Congress will make it law. 

“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

Gilens & Page, Perspectives in Politics

Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think

Professors Martin Gilens (Princeton University) and Benjamin I. Page (Northwestern University) looked at more than 20 years worth of data to answer a simple question: Does the government represent the people?

Their study took data from nearly 2000 public opinion surveys and compared it to the policies that ended up becoming law. In other words, they compared what the public wanted to what the government actually did. What they found was extremely unsettling: The opinions of 90% of Americans have essentially no impact at all.

‐--------‐-----------------

The Princeton study is easy to Google. Every article I found borrows heavily from this organization, so take that as you wish.. The group says they are working anti-corruption laws at state and local levels, which will put pressure on feds. I believe they created the video, too. So, my sources here are narrow. But, if someone better than me can make it through the actual Princeton study, I would love to hear their opinion.

represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/

[billisonboard]

Aug 5, 2022 9:27:34 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Princeton University study: Public opinion has “near-zero” impact on U.S. law.

Does public opinion affect the political process? Gilens & Page found that the number of Americans for or against any idea has no impact on the likelihood that Congress will make it law. 

“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

Gilens & Page, Perspectives in Politics

Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think

Professors Martin Gilens (Princeton University) and Benjamin I. Page (Northwestern University) looked at more than 20 years worth of data to answer a simple question: Does the government represent the people?

Their study took data from nearly 2000 public opinion surveys and compared it to the policies that ended up becoming law. In other words, they compared what the public wanted to what the government actually did. What they found was extremely unsettling: The opinions of 90% of Americans have essentially no impact at all.

‐--------‐-----------------

The Princeton study is easy to Google. Every article I found borrows heavily from this organization, so take that as you wish.. The group says they are working anti-corruption laws at state and local levels, which will put pressure on feds. I believe they created the video, too. So, my sources here are narrow. But, if someone better than me can make it through the actual Princeton study, I would love to hear their opinion.

represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/

Remember that study saying America is an oligarchy? 3 rebuttals say it's wrong.

But the study has become a frequently invoked piece of evidence in debates about money in politics, and the public and political debate has not kept up with the scholarly one. And the latest scholarly critiques suggest that while the rich certainly have more political influence than the middle class, ordinary Americans still win a substantial share of the time, even when the affluent oppose them.

[thyme4change]

Aug 5, 2022 9:45:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 5, 2022 9:27:34 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Princeton University study: Public opinion has “near-zero” impact on U.S. law.

Does public opinion affect the political process? Gilens & Page found that the number of Americans for or against any idea has no impact on the likelihood that Congress will make it law. 


Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think

Professors Martin Gilens (Princeton University) and Benjamin I. Page (Northwestern University) looked at more than 20 years worth of data to answer a simple question: Does the government represent the people?

Their study took data from nearly 2000 public opinion surveys and compared it to the policies that ended up becoming law. In other words, they compared what the public wanted to what the government actually did. What they found was extremely unsettling: The opinions of 90% of Americans have essentially no impact at all.

‐--------‐-----------------

The Princeton study is easy to Google. Every article I found borrows heavily from this organization, so take that as you wish.. The group says they are working anti-corruption laws at state and local levels, which will put pressure on feds. I believe they created the video, too. So, my sources here are narrow. But, if someone better than me can make it through the actual Princeton study, I would love to hear their opinion.

represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/

Remember that study saying America is an oligarchy? 3 rebuttals say it's wrong.

But the study has become a frequently invoked piece of evidence in debates about money in politics, and the public and political debate has not kept up with the scholarly one. And the latest scholarly critiques suggest that while the rich certainly have more political influence than the middle class, ordinary Americans still win a substantial share of the time, even when the affluent oppose them.

When I first saw the video I thought to myself "When were the opinion polls taken?" There is so much propaganda on both sides to tell the general population what to believe. When I was in college, Catholics were anti-abortion, but no one else made much of a stink about it. Now everyone has a firm opinion and knows their side speaks the truth. Why did so many people get an opinion over the last few decades when before they didn't really care? Someone told them to care and which side they should care about. Maybe the studies say that popular bills do get passed, but by the time they hit Congress the general population has already been convinced they super care about the issue that they didn't ever know was a problem.

[billisonboard]

Aug 5, 2022 13:57:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Aug 5, 2022 9:45:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Remember that study saying America is an oligarchy? 3 rebuttals say it's wrong.

But the study has become a frequently invoked piece of evidence in debates about money in politics, and the public and political debate has not kept up with the scholarly one. And the latest scholarly critiques suggest that while the rich certainly have more political influence than the middle class, ordinary Americans still win a substantial share of the time, even when the affluent oppose them.

When I first saw the video I thought to myself "When were the opinion polls taken?" There is so much propaganda on both sides to tell the general population what to believe. When I was in college, Catholics were anti-abortion, but no one else made much of a stink about it. Now everyone has a firm opinion and knows their side speaks the truth. Why did so many people get an opinion over the last few decades when before they didn't really care? Someone told them to care and which side they should care about. Maybe the studies say that popular bills do get passed, but by the time they hit Congress the general population has already been convinced they super care about the issue that they didn't ever know was a problem.

Seems the Southern Baptists were very anti-abortion from way back.

I don't think people having opinions is new these past few decades. What is new is the ability to broadcast it to the world on social media.

[weltschmerz]

'Kill Fauci!  Kill AOC and her squad! Kill Pence! Kill the parents from Sandy Hook!'  These are just a handful of people who received death threats by Trump's 'pro-lifers".

 Pro-life. What a joke.
  

[Opti]

Good video from Samantha Bee. I especially like the comment right before the 4:35 mark.

[daisylu]

So a 16YO with no parents is not "significantly mature" enough to decide to her her pregnancy, but she is mature enough to give birth and raise a child on her own, or choose an adoptive family. I call BS. So many lives can be ruined in 1 shot.

A Florida appeals court will force a parentless 16-year-old girl to give birth because the teen is not “sufficiently mature” to decide for herself whether or not to terminate the pregnancy.



A circuit court judge previously denied the girl’s request to waive a state law requiring minors get parental consent for an abortion. On Monday, a three-judge panel upheld the decision.



The unnamed teen, according to the appellate ruling, is getting a GED through a program for young people who have experienced traumatic events in their lives. In her petition, the girl—who lives with a relative and has an appointed guardian—argued that she is “still in school” and “is not ready to have a baby,” noting that her guardian was “fine with what [she] wants to do.”
She met with Escambia County Circuit Court Judge Jennifer J. Frydrychowicz, along with a case worker and a child advocate, but “inexplicably” did not request a lawyer who would have represented her for free, the ruling states.



“The trial judge displayed concern for the minor’s predicament throughout the hearing; she asked difficult questions of the minor on sensitive personal matters in a compassionate manner,” it continues. “The trial judge’s tone and method of questioning were commendable and her ability to produce a thoughtful written order in a rapid fashion is admirable (she prepared her written order immediately after the hearing, handing a copy thereafter to the minor).”

Frydrychowicz saw the case “as a very close call,” the ruling says, describing the judge’s impression of the teen as “credible” and “open,” and that she “showed, at times, that she is stable and mature enough to make this decision.”



It says the girl was 10 weeks pregnant at the time, but does not provide a specific timeline that would indicate how far along she would be now. She was “knowledgeable” about what was involved with terminating a pregnancy, and had done Google searches and read a pamphlet given to her at a medical clinic, the ruling notes. It also says the teen “acknowledges she is not ready for the emotional, physical, or financial responsibility of raising a child,” and “has valid concerns about her ability to raise a child.”



link

[raeoflyte]

That is so frustrating.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

LA woman forced to carry her headless baby to term or travel to FL for a legal abortion.

A pregnant woman in Louisiana says she’s being forced to choose between carrying fetus that lacks a skull and the top of its head (as a result of a rare condition called acrania) to term, or traveling several states over for a legal abortion, since Louisiana has banned abortion with very narrow exceptions.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-woman-is-forced-carry-headless-fetus-to-term-or-travel-to-florida-for-legal-abortion/ar-AA10Jd7E?cvid=8ab38b2d9cbc44e9ace9e717fd3cd8ce

[TheOtherMe]

     

[daisylu]

Aug 16, 2022 15:08:10 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

LA woman forced to carry her headless baby to term or travel to FL for a legal abortion.

A pregnant woman in Louisiana says she’s being forced to choose between carrying fetus that lacks a skull and the top of its head (as a result of a rare condition called acrania) to term, or traveling several states over for a legal abortion, since Louisiana has banned abortion with very narrow exceptions.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-woman-is-forced-carry-headless-fetus-to-term-or-travel-to-florida-for-legal-abortion/ar-AA10Jd7E?cvid=8ab38b2d9cbc44e9ace9e717fd3cd8ce

How can people not see that that is the most backwards sh*t EVER. 

[finnime]

So many lives stand to be seriously harmed by this. I do not understand the ruling on the 16 yo's case at all. And the dread the mother of the fetus with an unsurvivable birth defect must feel.

[imawino]

Aug 16, 2022 14:11:27 GMT -5 daisylu said:

So a 16YO with no parents is not "significantly mature" enough to decide to her her pregnancy, but she is mature enough to give birth and raise a child on her own, or choose an adoptive family. I call BS. So many lives can be ruined in 1 shot.

A Florida appeals court will force a parentless 16-year-old girl to give birth because the teen is not “sufficiently mature” to decide for herself whether or not to terminate the pregnancy.



A circuit court judge previously denied the girl’s request to waive a state law requiring minors get parental consent for an abortion. On Monday, a three-judge panel upheld the decision.



The unnamed teen, according to the appellate ruling, is getting a GED through a program for young people who have experienced traumatic events in their lives. In her petition, the girl—who lives with a relative and has an appointed guardian—argued that she is “still in school” and “is not ready to have a baby,” noting that her guardian was “fine with what [she] wants to do.”
She met with Escambia County Circuit Court Judge Jennifer J. Frydrychowicz, along with a case worker and a child advocate, but “inexplicably” did not request a lawyer who would have represented her for free, the ruling states.



“The trial judge displayed concern for the minor’s predicament throughout the hearing; she asked difficult questions of the minor on sensitive personal matters in a compassionate manner,” it continues. “The trial judge’s tone and method of questioning were commendable and her ability to produce a thoughtful written order in a rapid fashion is admirable (she prepared her written order immediately after the hearing, handing a copy thereafter to the minor).”

Frydrychowicz saw the case “as a very close call,” the ruling says, describing the judge’s impression of the teen as “credible” and “open,” and that she “showed, at times, that she is stable and mature enough to make this decision.”



It says the girl was 10 weeks pregnant at the time, but does not provide a specific timeline that would indicate how far along she would be now. She was “knowledgeable” about what was involved with terminating a pregnancy, and had done Google searches and read a pamphlet given to her at a medical clinic, the ruling notes. It also says the teen “acknowledges she is not ready for the emotional, physical, or financial responsibility of raising a child,” and “has valid concerns about her ability to raise a child.”



link

That is the most ludicrous reasoning I can imagine.  It makes no sense!  It's the opposite of sense.  You're not mature enough to know what you want....but mature enough to HAVE a baby?  To RAISE a baby?  Utterly maddening.

[wvugurl26]

These laws are ridiculous. My cousin just delivered a baby in South Carolina last weekend. She was in liver failure before they would induce her. It was 10 days before her due date. The baby was measuring ahead and came out almost 8 pounds.

I realize it's not nearly as bad as the prior examples but it's another example of consequences of these laws.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 16, 2022 15:08:10 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

LA woman forced to carry her headless baby to term or travel to FL for a legal abortion.

A pregnant woman in Louisiana says she’s being forced to choose between carrying fetus that lacks a skull and the top of its head (as a result of a rare condition called acrania) to term, or traveling several states over for a legal abortion, since Louisiana has banned abortion with very narrow exceptions.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-woman-is-forced-carry-headless-fetus-to-term-or-travel-to-florida-for-legal-abortion/ar-AA10Jd7E?cvid=8ab38b2d9cbc44e9ace9e717fd3cd8ce

I was horrified when I read this article this morning. The poor woman (and fetus too).

[jerseygirl]

wvugirl prayers for your relative and baby. Why was there an objection to delivery only 10 days before due date??? Crazed

[Opti]

Aug 16, 2022 17:44:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 16, 2022 15:08:10 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

LA woman forced to carry her headless baby to term or travel to FL for a legal abortion.







www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-woman-is-forced-carry-headless-fetus-to-term-or-travel-to-florida-for-legal-abortion/ar-AA10Jd7E?cvid=8ab38b2d9cbc44e9ace9e717fd3cd8ce

I was horrified when I read this article this morning. The poor woman (and fetus too).

Agreed. Horrible situation, I forget what the odds were in the article I read.

[wvugurl26]

The way the laws are in SC, they needed definite proof her life was in danger to induce her or it could be considered an abortion. It's crazy.

She's slowly getting better and baby is doing great.

Baby was definitely far enough along to survive outside but hey let's risk the mother's life with no regard for her already living children at home. She went from having covid to liver failure it was a very rough end to this pregnancy.

[jerseygirl]

So in SC an induced birth is considered a possible abortion??? Absolutely bizarre and scary
I had a 3 day induction for our youngest

Thankfully both mom and baby are doing well. Covid has had such awful health effects, liver failure in pregnancy.

[pulmonarymd]

Facts at the time of treatment matter. A planned induction at term is likely not an issue. An unplanned induction done because the life of the mother is in danger is a judgment call, and is open to interpretation. If there is a rabid anti-abortion person working at the hospital, they may report it and it could lead to all kinds of legal trouble. Not worth the risk.

People make all kinds of assumptions about medical issues without all the facts. We cannot correct the public record due to privacy laws, so incorrect facts do not get challenged. Interpret issues with caution outside of a court of law.

[wvugurl26]

Her scheduled induction was 8/16. The due date was 8/22. She waited over 5 days for the results of the cholestasis test done in the ER and they never showed up. Finally they just had her bring her bags and come to the hospital where they retested her liver levels. They were very bad and they finally able to induce her.

I'm hopeful she doesn't have permanent liver damage.

When I pointed out all this bs and risk was due to the abortion laws my DH didn't want to discuss it. Well that's the side effect of these crazy restrictive laws. Pregnancy is dangerous even if it is for a very much wanted child.

[finnime]

That's terrible, wvugurl26. I hope your cousin fares well despite the problems. It's especially hard when the problems are preventable given appropriate treatment.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Ex 2.0 was texting Carrot yesterday that he is allowing "some republicans" to put signs up in his yard (his back yard faces the highway).  He doesn't even freaking know who they are but they are republicans so against abortion and good.  Then proceeds to give Carrot the God speech and how it's our duty to elect people that are pledging to make abortion illegal.

I don't like dragging my 12 year old into anything political, but with his dad's influence and attending a Catholic school I felt I had to let him know where I stood on this and how it all wasn't so black and white and how there was tons of gray area and that it wasn't some guy in office's right to decide for a woman what she could do with her body.  Thankfully, I think he was pretty solidly in my court on this even before I gave him my spiel.

[Opti]

Republican South Carolina state Rep. Neal Collins broke down in a hearing telling the story of a 19-year-old woman whose water broke at 15 weeks when the fetus wasn't viable. The so-called "heartbeat bill" that Collins voted to support, meant that the teen had to be sent home for the fetus to die inside her. The doctor told him there was a 50 percent chance the teen could lose her uterus and never be able to have children. There was a 10 percent chance she could die.



He made it clear he never realized the impact the law could have on the life and health of women.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-men-are-getting-blindsided-by-their-own-ignorance-in-the-wake-of-roe-s-reversal/ar-AA10Ltge?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5204cb4d26674bd289c17aecef4c696e

[Tennesseer]

Aug 17, 2022 20:39:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

Republican South Carolina state Rep. Neal Collins broke down in a hearing telling the story of a 19-year-old woman whose water broke at 15 weeks when the fetus wasn't viable. The so-called "heartbeat bill" that Collins voted to support, meant that the teen had to be sent home for the fetus to die inside her. The doctor told him there was a 50 percent chance the teen could lose her uterus and never be able to have children. There was a 10 percent chance she could die.



He made it clear he never realized the impact the law could have on the life and health of women.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-men-are-getting-blindsided-by-their-own-ignorance-in-the-wake-of-roe-s-reversal/ar-AA10Ltge?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5204cb4d26674bd289c17aecef4c696e

Actions have consequences.

[thyme4change]

Aug 17, 2022 9:47:11 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Her scheduled induction was 8/16. The due date was 8/22. She waited over 5 days for the results of the cholestasis test done in the ER and they never showed up. Finally they just had her bring her bags and come to the hospital where they retested her liver levels. They were very bad and they finally able to induce her.

I'm hopeful she doesn't have permanent liver damage.

When I pointed out all this bs and risk was due to the abortion laws my DH didn't want to discuss it. Well that's the side effect of these crazy restrictive laws. Pregnancy is dangerous even if it is for a very much wanted child.

Sheesh! I was induced 10 days before my due date because the baby wasn't gaining any weight. I was fine. The doctor was definitely being cautious.

Ain't no way anyone with a brain is going to think induction of a 38+ week pregnancy is an abortion. Unfortunately, politicians don't have a brain.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Women should just start suing lawmakers left and right. Better yet, since fetuses are apparently a person, fetuses should start suing left and right.

[wvugurl26]

They should be sued and realize they have no business making medical decisions. They are politicians, not physicians. They are risking people's lives and they are too dumb to realize it or they don't care.

[daisylu]

Aug 17, 2022 20:39:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

Republican South Carolina state Rep. Neal Collins broke down in a hearing telling the story of a 19-year-old woman whose water broke at 15 weeks when the fetus wasn't viable. The so-called "heartbeat bill" that Collins voted to support, meant that the teen had to be sent home for the fetus to die inside her. The doctor told him there was a 50 percent chance the teen could lose her uterus and never be able to have children. There was a 10 percent chance she could die.



He made it clear he never realized the impact the law could have on the life and health of women.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-men-are-getting-blindsided-by-their-own-ignorance-in-the-wake-of-roe-s-reversal/ar-AA10Ltge?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5204cb4d26674bd289c17aecef4c696e

I was reading that this morning. At least he admitted to making a mistake. One of the biggest issues with this discussion arguing is that people get so single minded that they do not LISTEN to counter arguments.