Roe vs Wade Overturned!

[Deleted]

Jul 18, 2022 17:45:23 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Instead of trying to defend beliefs, Christians who feel misrepresented should be fighting like hell to change that narrative.

It's not easy. The extremists fight with ugly tactics (kidnap threats against the family of the doctor who performed the abortion on the 10-year old, for example). How do you fight people like that without using similar tactics? I'm doing some on social media including posting things like the story of the woman who miscarried in Malta and had to go elsewhere for life-saving treatment. I've also "come out" as having used the services of Planned Parenthood when I was in college- for contraception only, but that prevented me from ever having or wanting an abortion. I'm open about being a practicing Christian, frequently posting about church activities or links to my occasional sermon.

And I vote and I make donations to PP and others that help women seeking contraception and abortions.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 19, 2022 10:39:41 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 18, 2022 17:45:23 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Instead of trying to defend beliefs, Christians who feel misrepresented should be fighting like hell to change that narrative.

It's not easy. The extremists fight with ugly tactics (kidnap threats against the family of the doctor who performed the abortion on the 10-year old, for example). How do you fight people like that without using similar tactics? I'm doing some on social media including posting things like the story of the woman who miscarried in Malta and had to go elsewhere for life-saving treatment. I've also "come out" as having used the services of Planned Parenthood when I was in college- for contraception only, but that prevented me from ever having or wanting an abortion. I'm open about being a practicing Christian, frequently posting about church activities or links to my occasional sermon.

And I vote and I make donations to PP and others that help women seeking contraception and abortions.

I think it starts with removing "not all Christians" from your vocabulary. I nearly did that on this thread or another because reading through some - what I read as - anti-catholic sentiment- hit me hard because I had a great childhood being raised catholic.

But regardless of how great my experience and congregation were, that's not what catholics are known for. The catholic church - and catholics need to own their legacy. It's up to them to change the narrative, not up to others to decide good catholic or bad catholic.

It is tough with no easy answers. But maybe your church can raise money to help women in red states get to blue states to get abortions. Be vocal individually and collectively about why you disagree and what you want to see. Back it up with your interpretation of scripture.

[NastyWoman]

Jul 19, 2022 10:39:41 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 18, 2022 17:45:23 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Instead of trying to defend beliefs, Christians who feel misrepresented should be fighting like hell to change that narrative.

It's not easy. The extremists fight with ugly tactics (kidnap threats against the family of the doctor who performed the abortion on the 10-year old, for example). How do you fight people like that without using similar tactics? I'm doing some on social media including posting things like the story of the woman who miscarried in Malta and had to go elsewhere for life-saving treatment. I've also "come out" as having used the services of Planned Parenthood when I was in college- for contraception only, but that prevented me from ever having or wanting an abortion. I'm open about being a practicing Christian, frequently posting about church activities or links to my occasional sermon.

And I vote and I make donations to PP and others that help women seeking contraception and abortions.

Unless you post links like this with the preface of "you think this can't happen here/in the US?" and add links to the horror stories we are seeing here, in this country right now, I don't think this will raise awareness.


Many, if not most, people have this automatic belief that this will NOT happen here or to one of their loved ones so they will very smugly (IMO) dismiss these stories. For confirmation you only need to look at how many people believed that Roe v. Wade would never be overturned when DT was elected as it was established law after all. Yet here we are...

[dannylion]

How one flavor of Christianity interprets their religious texts versus another flavor of Christianity is irrelevant and just a smokescreen.  We are not a theocracy. 

The point, as always, is the cruelty, and the goal is the control and punishment of women.  Women are already in jeopardy in the Taliban red states just weeks after the ruling.  Women suffering miscarriages are being denied proper care.  Women with ectopic pregnancies are being denied appropriate care until they have nearly bled to death.  We already know how child rape victims will fare unless they are able to reach a safe haven.  Women and girls will be allowed to die for the sake of a clump of undifferentiated (and in many cases nonviable or even dead) cells and all those good Christians will pat themselves on the back for upholding the sanctity of life. The cruelty is the point.  

Also, if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.  It's not about the sanctity of life.  It's about the control of women.  

Climbing down from soapbox, but I'm still mad as hell and I'm not alone.  And we vote and have money and time to give to fight this.  

[TheOtherMe]

It is happening in the US.  Read the news and see the horrible things that are happening.

[swamp]

Jul 19, 2022 13:18:35 GMT -5 dannylion said:

How one flavor of Christianity interprets their religious texts versus another flavor of Christianity is irrelevant and just a smokescreen.  We are not a theocracy. 

The point, as always, is the cruelty, and the goal is the control and punishment of women.  Women are already in jeopardy in the Taliban red states just weeks after the ruling.  Women suffering miscarriages are being denied proper care.  Women with ectopic pregnancies are being denied appropriate care until they have nearly bled to death.  We already know how child rape victims will fare unless they are able to reach a safe haven.  Women and girls will be allowed to die for the sake of a clump of undifferentiated (and in many cases nonviable or even dead) cells and all those good Christians will pat themselves on the back for upholding the sanctity of life. The cruelty is the point.  

Also, if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.  It's not about the sanctity of life.  It's about the control of women.  

Climbing down from soapbox, but I'm still mad as hell and I'm not alone.  And we vote and have money and time to give to fight this.  

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2022 13:12:16 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Unless you post links like this with the preface of "you think this can't happen here/in the US?" and add links to the horror stories we are seeing here, in this country right now, I don't think this will raise awareness.


Many, if not most, people have this automatic belief that this will NOT happen here or to one of their loved ones so they will very smugly (IMO) dismiss these stories. For confirmation you only need to look at how many people believed that Roe v. Wade would never be overturned when DT was elected as it was established law after all. Yet here we are...

I did post that one on FB. Many people are still in denial. One anti-choice friend said he was sure that in the US the docs "would do the right thing". Hew also termed such a case "rare". Miscarriages rare? Hardly. I also pointed out that in a zero-abortion state they'd be risking their career and possibly jail by doing a D&C for a miscarriage or excising an ectopic pregnancy. His response: we need to agree to disagree on this.

My sister, an OB-Gyn who never did abortions in her career (and that's her decision, which I supported) and my BIL think the couple in Malta made the story up.

[bean29]

Jul 19, 2022 13:28:58 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 19, 2022 13:12:16 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Unless you post links like this with the preface of "you think this can't happen here/in the US?" and add links to the horror stories we are seeing here, in this country right now, I don't think this will raise awareness.


Many, if not most, people have this automatic belief that this will NOT happen here or to one of their loved ones so they will very smugly (IMO) dismiss these stories. For confirmation you only need to look at how many people believed that Roe v. Wade would never be overturned when DT was elected as it was established law after all. Yet here we are...

I did post that one on FB. Many people are still in denial. One anti-choice friend said he was sure that in the US the docs "would do the right thing". Hew also termed such a case "rare". Miscarriages rare? Hardly. I also pointed out that in a zero-abortion state they'd be risking their career and possibly jail by doing a D&C for a miscarriage or excising an ectopic pregnancy. His response: we need to agree to disagree on this.

My sister, an OB-Gyn who never did abortions in her career (and that's her decision, which I supported) and my BIL think the couple in Malta made the story up.

Even my liberal husband was insisting last night that all Dr's have to do is be the "test case" to challenge the law and treat the women that are miscarrying (ie. Perform a D&C), and then the Attorney's general can refuse to prosecute and problem solved.  I told him would you want to go to jail?  and I told him that there was no statute of limitations on murder and I just got the you don't know what you are talking about attitude.

[chiver78]

Congresswomen arrested during DC abortion rights protest

about two dozen members of Congress were arrested today in DC, for blocking traffic. the Boston Globe link I'm sharing here highlights Ayanna Pressley and Katherine Clark, both (D-MA), but also includes the names of more. 

[Cookies Galore]

Jul 19, 2022 14:42:38 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Congresswomen arrested during DC abortion rights protest

about two dozen members of Congress were arrested today in DC, for blocking traffic. the Boston Globe link I'm sharing here highlights Ayanna Pressley and Katherine Clark, both (D-MA), but also includes the names of more. 

My rep Madeleine Dean was the lady being escorted off with Pressley. Love her!

[haapai]

Jul 19, 2022 13:28:58 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 19, 2022 13:12:16 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Unless you post links like this with the preface of "you think this can't happen here/in the US?" and add links to the horror stories we are seeing here, in this country right now, I don't think this will raise awareness.


Many, if not most, people have this automatic belief that this will NOT happen here or to one of their loved ones so they will very smugly (IMO) dismiss these stories. For confirmation you only need to look at how many people believed that Roe v. Wade would never be overturned when DT was elected as it was established law after all. Yet here we are...

I did post that one on FB. Many people are still in denial. One anti-choice friend said he was sure that in the US the docs "would do the right thing". Hew also termed such a case "rare". Miscarriages rare? Hardly. I also pointed out that in a zero-abortion state they'd be risking their career and possibly jail by doing a D&C for a miscarriage or excising an ectopic pregnancy. His response: we need to agree to disagree on this.

My sister, an OB-Gyn who never did abortions in her career (and that's her decision, which I supported) and my BIL think the couple in Malta made the story up.

This kinda weirds me out.  Like you, I can totally understand an OB-GYN choosing not to perform abortions and support that choice.  What I cannot understand is someone in the field of obstetrics choosing to believe that the couple in Malta made their story up.  Doesn't she receive the charts of folks who have miscarried and needed a D&C or D&E?  Or does she just ignore those records when they are sent to her because those are no longer her patients?  Has she never encountered sepsis precisely because Roe allowed the termination of completely non-viable pregnancies without delay. 

It's also pretty darned obvious that she has never lived on an island where certain medical procedures and treatments were just unavailable and everyone living on the island and their doctors knew what those were and had a process for getting off the island and getting the care that they needed.  I know a bit about proactively getting on a plane in order to get medical care that is simply unavailable on an island.  The travel part is expensive, and you can feel alarmist, but when staying on the island can kill you, everyone, including your doctor, tells you to get on that boat or that plane.  It's the tourists and the immigrants that don't have doctors or friends that will tell them to get off-island NOW that tend to die. 

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2022 16:37:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

This kinda weirds me out.  Like you, I can totally understand an OB-GYN choosing not to perform abortions and support that choice.  What I cannot understand is someone in the field of obstetrics choosing to believe that the couple in Malta made their story up.  Doesn't she receive the charts of folks who have miscarried and needed a D&C or D&E?

My guess is that she did plenty of D&Cs for patients who were miscarrying and ectopic pregnancy excisions in her career because the fetus had no chance of survival and not treating the mother would have endangered her life. She is convinced that doctors will continue this even with zero-abortion laws. I don't think they will. The potential penalties are too high.

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 19, 2022 16:54:40 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 19, 2022 16:37:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

This kinda weirds me out.  Like you, I can totally understand an OB-GYN choosing not to perform abortions and support that choice.  What I cannot understand is someone in the field of obstetrics choosing to believe that the couple in Malta made their story up.  Doesn't she receive the charts of folks who have miscarried and needed a D&C or D&E?

My guess is that she did plenty of D&Cs for patients who were miscarrying and ectopic pregnancy excisions in her career because the fetus had no chance of survival and not treating the mother would have endangered her life. She is convinced that doctors will continue this even with zero-abortion laws. I don't think they will. The potential penalties are too high.

Your sister would have risked going to jail? I am not buying that. Until there are definitive laws/legal states from AGs, this will be a cluster and some people will be hurt. If a physician gets arrested, far more patients could be potentially harmed vs the one who is harmed if they do not intervene. Risk/benefit calculation far in favor of not doing something

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 19, 2022 14:32:31 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Jul 19, 2022 13:28:58 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I did post that one on FB. Many people are still in denial. One anti-choice friend said he was sure that in the US the docs "would do the right thing". Hew also termed such a case "rare". Miscarriages rare? Hardly. I also pointed out that in a zero-abortion state they'd be risking their career and possibly jail by doing a D&C for a miscarriage or excising an ectopic pregnancy. His response: we need to agree to disagree on this.

My sister, an OB-Gyn who never did abortions in her career (and that's her decision, which I supported) and my BIL think the couple in Malta made the story up.

Even my liberal husband was insisting last night that all Dr's have to do is be the "test case" to challenge the law and treat the women that are miscarrying (ie. Perform a D&C), and then the Attorney's general can refuse to prosecute and problem solved.  I told him would you want to go to jail?  and I told him that there was no statute of limitations on murder and I just got the you don't know what you are talking about attitude.

Your husband is wrong. Physicians in general are conservative in these areas and risk averse. Being a test case is not something we want to do, especially with the risk of going to jail

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2022 16:59:48 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Your sister would have risked going to jail? I am not buying that. Until there are definitive laws/legal states from AGs, this will be a cluster and some people will be hurt. If a physician gets arrested, far more patients could be potentially harmed vs the one who is harmed if they do not intervene. Risk/benefit calculation far in favor of not doing something

She retired a few years ago when Roe v. Wade was still law. I honestly don’t know what she’d do now.  ETA:  I do plan to aske her ore when we see each other, most likely in November  They're a 12-hour drive from here and I've found that when I discuss controversial topics with my siblings eye-to-eye we have better discussions and understand each other better than through e0mails or (heaven forbid) discussions on FaceBook.

[haapai]

Jul 19, 2022 16:54:40 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 19, 2022 16:37:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

This kinda weirds me out.  Like you, I can totally understand an OB-GYN choosing not to perform abortions and support that choice.  What I cannot understand is someone in the field of obstetrics choosing to believe that the couple in Malta made their story up.  Doesn't she receive the charts of folks who have miscarried and needed a D&C or D&E?

My guess is that she did plenty of D&Cs for patients who were miscarrying and ectopic pregnancy excisions in her career because the fetus had no chance of survival and not treating the mother would have endangered her life. She is convinced that doctors will continue this even with zero-abortion laws. I don't think they will. The potential penalties are too high.

I don't think that she did any D&Cs or had much to do with ending ectopic pregnancies other than sending patients to the ER.  I think that she left that to the folks at the hospital with more experience and better facilities to handle potential complications. 

I'd be applauding that stance if it wasn't for her somehow just forgetting about the patients who she referred to someone more specialized.  Getting your patients care that you cannot provide is admirable.  Claiming that nobody actually has to end a non-viable pregnancy in order to save the life of the mother is not admirable.  It is wishful thinking. 

[teen persuasion]

Jul 19, 2022 14:32:31 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Jul 19, 2022 13:28:58 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I did post that one on FB. Many people are still in denial. One anti-choice friend said he was sure that in the US the docs "would do the right thing". Hew also termed such a case "rare". Miscarriages rare? Hardly. I also pointed out that in a zero-abortion state they'd be risking their career and possibly jail by doing a D&C for a miscarriage or excising an ectopic pregnancy. His response: we need to agree to disagree on this.

My sister, an OB-Gyn who never did abortions in her career (and that's her decision, which I supported) and my BIL think the couple in Malta made the story up.

Even my liberal husband was insisting last night that all Dr's have to do is be the "test case" to challenge the law and treat the women that are miscarrying (ie. Perform a D&C), and then the Attorney's general can refuse to prosecute and problem solved.  I told him would you want to go to jail?  and I told him that there was no statute of limitations on murder and I just got the you don't know what you are talking about attitude.

My mom was trying to insist that doctors would "take care of you" in cases of miscarriage, they have to, because it's an emergency.

Yeah, here in NY they do, but not in those red states, mom.  Then I reminded her I had two miscarriages and needed D&Cs each time.  My sister had a miscarriage.  My brother's wife had one.  Mom's sister had five.  My grandmother (her mom) had a miscarriage in her fifties!  Those are just the ones in the family that *I* know about - I'm sure there are lots more people didn't tell everyone about.

[daisylu]

The doctor who performed the abortion is suing Indiana's AG for defamation. link

Dr. Caitlin Bernard — the Indianapolis obstetrician-gynecologist who provided an abortion to a 10-year-old rape victim from Ohio after the state outlawed the procedure for pregnancies past six weeks — has filed a notice that she intends to sue Indiana’s attorney general for statements he made about her on Fox News.



In a letter to Indiana AG Todd Rokita dated Tuesday, lawyers for Bernard informed Rokita of the filing, which by law triggers a 90-day period for the state to respond to the so-called tort claim seeking damages for reputational harm and emotional distress. At that time, Bernard could file a lawsuit against Rokita for defamation.

Three days after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, which prompted a statewide ban in Ohio on abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, Bernard received a phone call from a child-abuse physician in the Buckeye State whose 10-year-old patient was six weeks and three days pregnant.



On July 1, the Indianapolis Star reported on the case in a story about the repercussions of the Supreme Court’s decision. It quickly drew national attention — and skepticism from anti-abortion advocates who questioned whether the girl even existed.



On July 11, Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost, a Republican, said there was “not a damn scintilla of evidence” to corroborate the story. Two days later, the girl’s alleged rapist was arraigned in an Ohio court.



At the arraignment, Columbus Police Detective Jeffrey Huhn testified that Gerson Fuentes, who was suspected to be living in the country illegally, ​​had been arrested after he confessed to raping the child on at least two occasions. Huhn said the girl’s mother had reported the rape to the Franklin County child services agency, which referred a complaint to Columbus police on June 22.

The night of the arraignment, Rokita appeared on Fox News and said his office was investigating whether Bernard was licensed to perform an abortion — and whether she had failed to report it.



“We have this abortion activist acting as a doctor with a history of failing to report,” Rokita said. “We’re gathering the evidence as we speak, and we’re going to fight this to the end.”



During the interview, a chyron on the screen underneath Rokita and a picture of Bernard read: “Doc Failed to Report Abortion of Abuse Victim.”

Rokita issued a subsequent statement through his office, saying: “Aside from the horror caused here by illegal immigration, we are investigating this situation and are waiting for the relevant documents to prove if the abortion and/or the abuse were reported, as Dr. Caitlin Bernard had requirements to do both under Indiana law. The failure to do so constitutes a crime in Indiana, and her behavior could also affect her licensure. Additionally, if a HIPAA violation did occur, that may affect next steps as well.”



But Bernard, whose physician license is active, did report it. The Indiana University Health System, where she is employed, issued a statement on Friday saying it had conducted a review into whether she had violated any privacy laws and found her to be in full compliance.



“Mr. Rokita’s statements that Dr. Bernard was an ‘abortion activist acting as a doctor’ with a ‘history of failing to report’ were false,” Bernard’s attorneys said in their letter. “Mr. Rokita either knew the statements were false or acted with reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the statements.”

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2022 17:42:17 GMT -5 haapai said:

Jul 19, 2022 16:54:40 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

She is convinced that doctors will continue this even with zero-abortion laws. I don't think they will. The potential penalties are too high.

I don't think that she did any D&Cs or had much to do with ending ectopic pregnancies other than sending patients to the ER.  I think that she left that to the folks at the hospital with more experience and better facilities to handle potential complications.

Her last 3 years she was a hospitallist- working fixed hours at the hospital, taking care of any woman who walked in the door whether in labor, miscarrying, anything "between your belly button and your hoo-ha" as one OB/Gyn put it.  She was "one of the folks at the hospital".

Jul 19, 2022 17:00:54 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jul 19, 2022 14:32:31 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Even my liberal husband was insisting last night that all Dr's have to do is be the "test case" to challenge the law and treat the women that are miscarrying (ie. Perform a D&C), and then the Attorney's general can refuse to prosecute and problem solved.  I told him would you want to go to jail?  and I told him that there was no statute of limitations on murder and I just got the you don't know what you are talking about attitude.

Your husband is wrong. Physicians in general are conservative in these areas and risk averse. Being a test case is not something we want to do, especially with the risk of going to jail

I agree- I was thinking that some brave doctor on the brink of retirement might be a test case- and then realized he/she would risk spending the first few years of retirement in jail.

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 20, 2022 8:12:58 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 19, 2022 17:42:17 GMT -5 haapai said:

I don't think that she did any D&Cs or had much to do with ending ectopic pregnancies other than sending patients to the ER.  I think that she left that to the folks at the hospital with more experience and better facilities to handle potential complications.

Her last 3 years she was a hospitallist- working fixed hours at the hospital, taking care of any woman who walked in the door whether in labor, miscarrying, anything "between your belly button and your hoo-ha" as one OB/Gyn put it.  She was "one of the folks at the hospital".

Jul 19, 2022 17:00:54 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Your husband is wrong. Physicians in general are conservative in these areas and risk averse. Being a test case is not something we want to do, especially with the risk of going to jail

I agree- I was thinking that some brave doctor on the brink of retirement might be a test case- and then realized he/she would risk spending the first few years of retirement in jail.

I am getting close to retirement. I would in no way want to take that risk. I have worked too hard and deferred to many things to make that sacrifice. I have given enough. I suspect most physicians feel the same way. It will require someone braver and more altruistic than me to risk this.

[swamp]

Jul 19, 2022 16:54:40 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jul 19, 2022 16:37:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

This kinda weirds me out.  Like you, I can totally understand an OB-GYN choosing not to perform abortions and support that choice.  What I cannot understand is someone in the field of obstetrics choosing to believe that the couple in Malta made their story up.  Doesn't she receive the charts of folks who have miscarried and needed a D&C or D&E?

My guess is that she did plenty of D&Cs for patients who were miscarrying and ectopic pregnancy excisions in her career because the fetus had no chance of survival and not treating the mother would have endangered her life. She is convinced that doctors will continue this even with zero-abortion laws. I don't think they will. The potential penalties are too high.

Perhaps she can consult with a colleague about removing her head from her ass. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 20, 2022 9:52:33 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jul 19, 2022 16:54:40 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

My guess is that she did plenty of D&Cs for patients who were miscarrying and ectopic pregnancy excisions in her career because the fetus had no chance of survival and not treating the mother would have endangered her life. She is convinced that doctors will continue this even with zero-abortion laws. I don't think they will. The potential penalties are too high.

Perhaps she can consult with a colleague about removing her head from her ass. 

People who assume life will just carry on as normal have clearly never worked with or be in a Catholic Hospital.  In particular CHI Health.  They very strictly adhere to Catholic doctrine.  My mom used to type up documents for them.  Their policies regarding women's reproduction would make your hair curl.  

Doctors aren't allowed to discuss birth control.  They can even get in trouble for providing you a reference to go find a doctor who will prescribe it.

For awhile yeah they did it anyhow using anything but preventing pregnancy to justify it.  The hospital system cracked down there is NO acceptable reason to be prescribing it and if you are caught doing so you face termination.

So doctors don't prescribe it.   On top of that there have been quite a few cases here of women being sent home or left waiting in the lobby until they are nearly bleeding out/septic because doctors don't want to face disciplinary action for performing an abortion.  There has to be no heartbeat detected before they can intervene.

It's going to increase the doctor/nurse shortage because many have chosen to seek other employment.  This was not as big a deal in Omaha there are other chains you can go to.  In rural areas this has been an ongoing crisis for quite some time.   

The rural areas were the canary in the coal mine.  Religious affiliated hospitals have been working behind the scenes for a long time to undermine women's reproductive rights.  People didn't address it though because the answer was "well just go to another hospital if you don't like it".  Nobody noticed or cared when pharmacists were given the right to reject handing over your Plan B because it violates their religious beliefs.  The answer was "Well just go to another pharmacy then" Guess what now we can't.   The writing on the wall was there long before the three new Supreme Court justices.   This is what happens when people smugly declare there is no need for feminism anymore.

[Deleted]

Jul 20, 2022 9:52:33 GMT -5 swamp said:

Perhaps she can consult with a colleague about removing her head from her ass. 

I know, I know. I'm sure if she talked to doctors still in practice she'd see that in the zero-abortion law states they're scared witless to intervene in a pregnancy even if the fetus is doomed.

Jul 20, 2022 10:15:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

People who assume life will just carry on as normal have clearly never worked with or be in a Catholic Hospital.  In particular CHI Health.  They very strictly adhere to Catholic doctrine.  My mom used to type up documents for them.  Their policies regarding women's reproduction would make your hair curl.  

Doctors aren't allowed to discuss birth control.  They can even get in trouble for providing you a reference to go find a doctor who will prescribe it.

For awhile yeah they did it anyhow using anything but preventing pregnancy to justify it.  The hospital system cracked down there is NO acceptable reason to be prescribing it and if you are caught doing so you face termination.

Ah, I remember a college roommate from a religious family who was taking BC pills- "to regulate her periods".

Jul 20, 2022 10:15:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

This is what happens when people smugly declare there is no need for feminism anymore.

I remind the "I'm not a feminist" types of the days before the feminist movement. The younger ones just don't realize how bad it was unless you were a perfect 1950s housewife with a good husband who made a decent income. I never stopped being a feminist.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The one fall out from this is that D&Cs are like all medical procedures.  The more of them you do, the better you are at them.  D&Cs are not minor, especially in the wrong hands.  If fewer of them are done because necessity of the procedure is always going to be questioned, physicians are going to be less accurate and I expect that we will see an uptick in the number of botched jobs.  

This is just going to keep giving and giving.......

[Tiny]

I think there needs to be more publicity about what qualifies under the law as an abortion in America.   

I had a conversation with a friend last night and she seems to think the only "abortions" effected are those by healthy women who are being inconvenienced by a pregnancy, where if nothing is done, the result will be a happy, healthy, beautiful, perfect baby.     When I brought up ectopic pregnancies or when a woman needs a D&C after a miscarriage or when it's determined the fetus has little chance of surviving long after birth  as all being seen under the law as abortions - my friend looked at me like I had two heads.   I brought up a couple of other reasons a woman might think an abortion was the best option and got some headshaking and sputtering.   And then I mentioned  fertility treatments...    For my friend an abortion is ONLY performed on healthy women who wants to end a pregnancy because having a baby would be an "inconvenience"  (and the reason she got pregnant was her own fault).   I truly think she thought that was the ONLY thing overturning Rowe V Wade effected...          

 
One of us doesn't have all the facts... 

[pulmonarymd]

There is an awful lot of stupidity, wishful thinking, magical thinking, illogic and a whole host of very poor thinking surrounding this subject on the part who are anti-abortion. Aren't they going to be shocked when someone they know or care about is affected by this. This is such a large issue that it will have wide ranging consequences.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 20, 2022 12:42:30 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I think there needs to be more publicity about what qualifies under the law as an abortion in America.   

I had a conversation with a friend last night and she seems to think the only "abortions" effected are those by healthy women who are being inconvenienced by a pregnancy, where if nothing is done, the result will be a happy, healthy, beautiful, perfect baby.     When I brought up ectopic pregnancies or when a woman needs a D&C after a miscarriage or when it's determined the fetus has little chance of surviving long after birth  as all being seen under the law as abortions - my friend looked at me like I had two heads.   I brought up a couple of other reasons a woman might think an abortion was the best option and got some headshaking and sputtering.   And then I mentioned  fertility treatments...    For my friend an abortion is ONLY performed on healthy women who wants to end a pregnancy because having a baby would be an "inconvenience"  (and the reason she got pregnant was her own fault).   I truly think she thought that was the ONLY thing overturning Rowe V Wade effected...          

 
One of us doesn't have all the facts... 

Try explaining "third trimester abortion" to people.  They legit believe it's a perfectly healthy woman with a perfectly healthy baby that decides at the absolute last minute she doesn't want a baby anymore and doctors take care of it for them.

There is no explaining that if that is happening it is because something went heart wrenchingly wrong.  And to force a mother to carry to term can risk her life, not to mention the trauma of forcing a woman to carry the pregnancy knowing the outcome.

It's called an abortion because that is what it medically is.  They'll go through all sorts of gymnastics to try to explain to you how it's "different" if you use the A word.

It's like calling it "Obamacare" vs "ACA".   They see a trigger word and don't bother to move past it to actually educate themselves on the topic they are discussing.

[Deleted]

Jul 20, 2022 12:42:30 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I think there needs to be more publicity about what qualifies under the law as an abortion in America.   

<snip>When I brought up ectopic pregnancies or when a woman needs a D&C after a miscarriage or when it's determined the fetus has little chance of surviving long after birth  as all being seen under the law as abortions - my friend looked at me like I had two heads.   I brought up a couple of other reasons a woman might think an abortion was the best option and got some headshaking and sputtering.   And then I mentioned  fertility treatments...    For my friend an abortion is ONLY performed on a healthy women who wants to end a pregnancy because having a baby would be an "inconvenience"  (and the reason she got pregnant was her own fault).   I truly think she thought that was the ONLY thing overturning Rowe V Wade affected...          

I think you're onto something. It's one of the reasons I publicize some of the consequences people don't expect.  I just posted this on FB yesterday.  

www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/woman-forced-to-carry-dead-fetus-for-two-weeks-after-miscarriage-due-to-us-abortion-ban/ar-AAZL0ZR?cvid=b574cf73a92144edb5ad69f356160f0e&fbclid=IwAR366DwEj9-ieo0_4PR-uLPzbvyvbdb5KTR9N3QqnUtK-VWtBhyNcbfWqCo

And fertility treatments are an interesting question.  If fertilized eggs aren't used because the couple had the child they wanted, or decided not to make any more attempts, or whatever, what can be done with the cells the writer Anne Taylor Fleming wistfully called "babysicles"?   (She and her husband stopped after several failed attempts at implantation.)  Apparently you CAN donate them to other couples now but if you don't do that, do they need to be stored forever?  At whose expense?

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Jul 20, 2022 12:18:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The one fall out from this is that D&Cs are like all medical procedures.  The more of them you do, the better you are at them.  D&Cs are not minor, especially in the wrong hands.  If fewer of them are done because necessity of the procedure is always going to be questioned, physicians are going to be less accurate and I expect that we will see an uptick in the number of botched jobs.  

This is just going to keep giving and giving.......

I sure as hell hope potential residents who don't believe in comprehensive women's healthcare don't match into any OB/GYN residency programs in states where abortion is protected. A pre-emptive fuck you for taking that highly competitive spot that is now a life or death position.

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Jul 20, 2022 13:05:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 20, 2022 12:42:30 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I think there needs to be more publicity about what qualifies under the law as an abortion in America.   

I had a conversation with a friend last night and she seems to think the only "abortions" effected are those by healthy women who are being inconvenienced by a pregnancy, where if nothing is done, the result will be a happy, healthy, beautiful, perfect baby.     When I brought up ectopic pregnancies or when a woman needs a D&C after a miscarriage or when it's determined the fetus has little chance of surviving long after birth  as all being seen under the law as abortions - my friend looked at me like I had two heads.   I brought up a couple of other reasons a woman might think an abortion was the best option and got some headshaking and sputtering.   And then I mentioned  fertility treatments...    For my friend an abortion is ONLY performed on healthy women who wants to end a pregnancy because having a baby would be an "inconvenience"  (and the reason she got pregnant was her own fault).   I truly think she thought that was the ONLY thing overturning Rowe V Wade effected...          

 
One of us doesn't have all the facts... 

Try explaining "third trimester abortion" to people.  They legit believe it's a perfectly healthy woman with a perfectly healthy baby that decides at the absolute last minute she doesn't want a baby anymore and doctors take care of it for them.

There is no explaining that if that is happening it is because something went heart wrenchingly wrong.  And to force a mother to carry to term can risk her life, not to mention the trauma of forcing a woman to carry the pregnancy knowing the outcome.

It's called an abortion because that is what it medically is.  They'll go through all sorts of gymnastics to try to explain to you how it's "different" if you use the A word.

It's like calling it "Obamacare" vs "ACA".   They see a trigger word and don't bother to move past it to actually educate themselves on the topic they are discussing.

I won't even use the term "miscarriage" anymore, unless I'm talking about justice. It's spontaneous abortion or missed abortion. I don't care if you think I'm being crass, Susan, it's the medical terminology and I will use it until you get it through your thick skull.