Article about white supremacists arrested on route to Pride

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 14, 2022 15:46:05 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

My cousins that "stand with Kirk Cameron" are having significantly more kids than my progressive cousins. Anecdote isn't data, and I really want to be wrong. But it's been a rough few days I guess.

True but if they go to school, especially college, statistically speaking you come out more liberal than when you arrived.  Not always, but usually. 

That's why Republicans are working double time to try to get books banned not only in schools but working to extend it to public libraries because the more literate their voting base is the more their voting base shrinks.

[giramomma]

Jun 14, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

 We've done a lot to tell girls that they can do anything a man can do but we aren't telling men they can do anything a woman can do.

I noticed that, too.

Thanks to formula, DH and I are literally interchangeable. In hindsight, I think it's one of the best decisions we've ever made.

We've modeled a man doing typical women's work and a woman doing typically male work.

Interestingly, I was just talking about this today at my drs office.

Men are not allowed to be girl scout leaders, because they are men. I suppose the assumption is all men are pedophiles.

Yet, at least for scouts BSA, I could be a den leader (to an all boys den) and no one ever batted an eyelash about it.

We are seeing way more men go into teaching, and I saw a lot of male nurses.

[billisonboard]

I vaguely remember from a years ago college class the idea that a small percentage of Blacks in a community was considered an okay "novelty" but at some percentage point they became a perceived threat for some. I would think the same type concept would be true of other groups. True for the larger society as well. Some House members and a Senator or two being Black okay, but President? Omg! That cute couple on the corner, particularly how he does those wonderful flowers in their yard, isn't a big deal (as long as they don't hold hands and kiss in public) but a Lesbian couple kissing on prime time television? Too far. 

I think we have come a long way. Sad it is happening but I don't think we would be seeing this backlash if we hadn't. 

[raeoflyte]

Jun 14, 2022 15:56:12 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 14, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

 We've done a lot to tell girls that they can do anything a man can do but we aren't telling men they can do anything a woman can do.

I noticed that, too.

Thanks to formula, DH and I are literally interchangeable. In hindsight, I think it's one of the best decisions we've ever made.

We've modeled a man doing typical women's work and a woman doing typically male work.

Interestingly, I was just talking about this today at my drs office.

Men are not allowed to be girl scout leaders, because they are men. I suppose the assumption is all men are pedophiles.

Yet, at least for scouts BSA, I could be a den leader (to an all boys den) and no one ever batted an eyelash about it.

We are seeing way more men go into teaching, and I saw a lot of male nurses.

Where are you seeing men can't be troop leaders at girl scouts?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 14, 2022 15:56:25 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I vaguely remember from a years ago college class the idea that a small percentage of Blacks in a community was considered an okay "novelty" but at some percentage point they became a perceived threat for some. I would think the same type concept would be true of other groups. True for the larger society as well. Some House members and a Senator or two being Black okay, but President? Omg! That cute couple on the corner, particularly how he does those wonderful flowers in their yard, isn't a big deal (as long as they don't hold hands and kiss in public) but a Lesbian couple kissing on prime time television? Too far. 

I think we have come a long way. Sad it is happening but I don't think we would be seeing this backlash if we hadn't. 

Adam Ruins Everything did an episode about this topic and had an expert on discussing it.  In her extended post credit interview she talked about the more progress is made the bigger the backlash.

When I get too down on myself and fatalistic I remember what she said "When you stretch a rubber band it can only go so far before it snaps back.  However the rubber band never goes back completely to the way it was, it's stretched and will continue to stretch until it finally breaks".

Unfortunately sometimes like in the case of the Reformation progress can be set back over 100 years but progress continues to march forward even if it is one funeral at a time.   We can't let them win no matter how hard and far they try to set us back.

Because as we're seeing they stand a good chance of winning this time.  We got lucky with Biden getting in, we need to maintain that momentum. We need to remember what getting staid did in 2016.

We may not stop Republicans from passing all of their agenda but we can block some of it and make it a giant PITA for them as they enact it.

Democrats need to get in the dirt and quit taking the higher road.  They need to market the shit out of what Republicans are trying to do and stand against it.  My vote can only do so much if the leaders I choose don't have the balls to continue the fight where it truly matters.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 14, 2022 15:56:12 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 14, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

 We've done a lot to tell girls that they can do anything a man can do but we aren't telling men they can do anything a woman can do.

I noticed that, too.

Thanks to formula, DH and I are literally interchangeable. In hindsight, I think it's one of the best decisions we've ever made.

We've modeled a man doing typical women's work and a woman doing typically male work.

Interestingly, I was just talking about this today at my drs office.

Men are not allowed to be girl scout leaders, because they are men. I suppose the assumption is all men are pedophiles.

Yet, at least for scouts BSA, I could be a den leader (to an all boys den) and no one ever batted an eyelash about it.

We are seeing way more men go into teaching, and I saw a lot of male nurses.

And Gira - I love you. But breastfeeding doesn't make men crappy dads. Breastfeeding doesn't preclude dad from bonding with the baby another way.

There is actual evidence and a shit load of anecdote that shows that a lot of men are crappy parents when it comes to mundane child and house care, especially in those early years. What causes that I truly don't understand, but I lived it and will say with absolute conviction breastfeeding had nothing to do with it.

Dh had just as much physical time with our kids. Fed them, cared for them, did all the fun stuff with them for almost a decade, even did diaper laundry. But he couldn't get up with them at night, and left everything else to me. If I was at all physically available - it was on me. Regardless if my breasts were needed or not. Trans dude with absolute textbook dad of infants issues.

[giramomma]

Jun 14, 2022 15:58:51 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 14, 2022 15:56:12 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I noticed that, too.

Thanks to formula, DH and I are literally interchangeable. In hindsight, I think it's one of the best decisions we've ever made.

We've modeled a man doing typical women's work and a woman doing typically male work.

Interestingly, I was just talking about this today at my drs office.

Men are not allowed to be girl scout leaders, because they are men. I suppose the assumption is all men are pedophiles.

Yet, at least for scouts BSA, I could be a den leader (to an all boys den) and no one ever batted an eyelash about it.

We are seeing way more men go into teaching, and I saw a lot of male nurses.

Where are you seeing men can't be troop leaders at girl scouts?

In my very liberal neck of the woods.

DH was told flat out he could not be a girl scout leader.

The woman who checked me in made the same comment to me today. She was in girl scouts, and her mom was a leader.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm going to blame a lot of that on the Victorians who did a lot of shit science showing men be men and women be women cause. . we say so. I've seen on this board female posters insist that men are incapable of being good parents because they don't have the baby birthing parts.

But science shows the exact opposite.  Human males undergo similar hormonal changes as women binding them to their baby because evolutionary speaking human babies need both parents.  This happens in nature with other species requiring two parents for successful offspring.

But society isn't catching up with it.  We still view men's primary role as bringing home the bacon.  Boys are still discouraged in a lot of houses from playing with dolls for fear of making them gay.  But that is how you learn, through imitation.   If you aren't watching your dad be a dad then where are you going to learn it from?  

I think that is slowly changing.  My dad is different from his dad.  DH is different from his dad.  But we're bathed practically from birth in the notion that men cannot be parents in the way women can.  I am not sure how to fight that battle because I am just as conditioned as DH is.  How do you fight programming that you aren't even aware is there?

I can't go back in time and not let myself fall into that role with the girls when they were babies.  I guess all I can do is be honest with them and hope they demand better from their spouses.

I was reading about that in relation to another subject I think it was shaving legs.  I will never be comfortable without shaving them because I have been conditioned since I was a kid to feel it is unacceptable.  Even though logically I know this is stupid I am fighting against decades of societal programming.  I am not really "choosing" to shave my legs at all.  I'm going with my programming and justifying the hypocrisy.

It might have been the book I just mentioned on the reading thread.

That caused quite an existenstial crisis.  

[raeoflyte]

Jun 14, 2022 16:17:44 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 14, 2022 15:58:51 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Where are you seeing men can't be troop leaders at girl scouts?

In my very liberal neck of the woods.

DH was told flat out he could not be a girl scout leader.

The woman who checked me in made the same comment to me today. She was in girl scouts, and her mom was a leader.

The girl scouts website does not back that up. I'd be curious to call the council and get their take on it.

Girl scouts make mistakes, but everything ive seen show they own them and fix them.

One thing that girl scouts has had to do that isn't part of boy scouts - is showing girls that they are capable of anything. The world is full of men telling girls and women what they can become. So it is an organization by girls, for girls. But I've never seen them to be anti-men.

Unlike boyscouts who shunned gay kids and leaders literally until they're organization was on the brink of collapse. If politics shift much more right I winder if they'd stand firm on accepting queer kids.

[giramomma]

Jun 14, 2022 16:07:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 14, 2022 15:56:12 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I noticed that, too.

Thanks to formula, DH and I are literally interchangeable. In hindsight, I think it's one of the best decisions we've ever made.

We've modeled a man doing typical women's work and a woman doing typically male work.

Interestingly, I was just talking about this today at my drs office.

Men are not allowed to be girl scout leaders, because they are men. I suppose the assumption is all men are pedophiles.

Yet, at least for scouts BSA, I could be a den leader (to an all boys den) and no one ever batted an eyelash about it.

We are seeing way more men go into teaching, and I saw a lot of male nurses.

And Gira - I love you. But breastfeeding doesn't make men crappy dads. Breastfeeding doesn't preclude dad from bonding with the baby another way.

There is actual evidence and a shit load of anecdote that shows that a lot of men are crappy parents when it comes to mundane child and house care, especially in those early years. What causes that I truly don't understand, but I lived it and will say with absolute conviction breastfeeding had nothing to do with it.

Dh had just as much physical time with our kids. Fed them, cared for them, did all the fun stuff with them for almost a decade, even did diaper laundry. But he couldn't get up with them at night, and left everything else to me. If I was at all physically available - it was on me. Regardless if my breasts were needed or not. Trans dude with absolute textbook dad of infants issues.

I never was trying to suggest that breastfeeding made men crappy dads.

I think, for us, and our family, I still think having DH and I be completely interchangeable has been quite useful. Sometimes, DH has been a crappy dad, and absolutely breastfeeding had nothing to do with it. (Same with me, I've had my crappy moments. nothing to do with breastfeeding).

It doesn't negate the breastfeeding experience for others. One of my colleagues has done extended breast feeding for both her kids. That works for her family. 

[pulmonarymd]

I get that there are many benefits of being male, but the issue with being assumed to be a pedophile if you are interested in young children is real.

Think about these scenarios:

Our daycare director resigned. One person who applied to replace her was a youngish male. You should have heard all the ignorant comment. "Why would he want to do that? It is not natural for a man to do that. Women are better than men at this. It wasn't only men saying it.

A man who wants to be a kindergarten or first grade teacher. I don't think we have a male teacher in our district below 4th grade.

If a child is crying in a playground, a man went over, and you happened to come across them 1 minute after he went to console the child and he wan holding them, what would be the first thought in your mind, especially if they were of a different race or did not appear to go together. Too many people would assume that he was up to no good. 

Unfortunately, men are suspect in these situations. We all have prejudices. Gira is right about a man as a Girl Scouts leader.

ETA: How many parents would avoid a Girl Scout group with a man as a leader?

[raeoflyte]

Jun 14, 2022 16:23:52 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jun 14, 2022 16:07:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

And Gira - I love you. But breastfeeding doesn't make men crappy dads. Breastfeeding doesn't preclude dad from bonding with the baby another way.

There is actual evidence and a shit load of anecdote that shows that a lot of men are crappy parents when it comes to mundane child and house care, especially in those early years. What causes that I truly don't understand, but I lived it and will say with absolute conviction breastfeeding had nothing to do with it.

Dh had just as much physical time with our kids. Fed them, cared for them, did all the fun stuff with them for almost a decade, even did diaper laundry. But he couldn't get up with them at night, and left everything else to me. If I was at all physically available - it was on me. Regardless if my breasts were needed or not. Trans dude with absolute textbook dad of infants issues.

I never was trying to suggest that breastfeeding made men crappy dads.

I think, for us, and our family, I still think having DH and I be completely interchangeable has been quite useful. Sometimes, DH has been a crappy dad, and absolutely breastfeeding had nothing to do with it. (Same with me, I've had my crappy moments. nothing to do with breastfeeding).

It doesn't negate the breastfeeding experience for others. One of my colleagues has done extended breast feeding for both her kids. That works for her family. 

I don't get the interchangeable part. But maybe we're talking different things.

Demonstrating, breaking and talking about gender norms is important. I'm not sure how breastfeeding falls into that.

I handle all yard work, refinished our hardwood floors, built the inside portions of our chicken coop - typical guy stuff. Dh handles most medical stuff, removes splinters, makes the couch bed for sickies with all the goodies.

We do need to push more that boys can do and be anything. But then we have people still losing their shit about someone in drag reading to kids for story time. So we're not there yet. Society is still entrenched in acceptable male behaviors and that is possibly related but another horribly depressing topic I feel like we're losing.

[raeoflyte]

www.girlscoutsni.org/en/our-council/news/2016/dads_who_lead_the_wa.html#:~:text=We%20are%20proud%20to%20welcome,daughters'%20troops%20for%20ten%20years.

[billisonboard]

Jun 14, 2022 16:34:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I get that there are many benefits of being male, but the issue with being assumed to be a pedophile if you are interested in young children is real.

Think about these scenarios:

Our daycare director resigned. One person who applied to replace her was a youngish male. You should have heard all the ignorant comment. "Why would he want to do that? It is not natural for a man to do that. Women are better than men at this. It wasn't only men saying it.

A man who wants to be a kindergarten or first grade teacher. I don't think we have a male teacher in our district below 4th grade.

If a child is crying in a playground, a man went over, and you happened to come across them 1 minute after he went to console the child and he wan holding them, what would be the first thought in your mind, especially if they were of a different race or did not appear to go together. Too many people would assume that he was up to no good. 

Unfortunately, men are suspect in these situations. We all have prejudices. Gira is right about a man as a Girl Scouts leader.

ETA: How many parents would avoid a Girl Scout group with a man as a leader?

I work one on one with a 10 year old special ed student in a very small pre-school through 8th grade school district. About 80 students total. The custodian is male. The two bus drivers are male. There is me. And everyone else from the superintendent/principal to teachers to other support staff is female.

I am aware but refuse to be overly guarded working with my one student. The rest of the students, particularly female ones, I am very careful around.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 14, 2022 16:56:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 14, 2022 16:34:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I get that there are many benefits of being male, but the issue with being assumed to be a pedophile if you are interested in young children is real.

Think about these scenarios:

Our daycare director resigned. One person who applied to replace her was a youngish male. You should have heard all the ignorant comment. "Why would he want to do that? It is not natural for a man to do that. Women are better than men at this. It wasn't only men saying it.

A man who wants to be a kindergarten or first grade teacher. I don't think we have a male teacher in our district below 4th grade.

If a child is crying in a playground, a man went over, and you happened to come across them 1 minute after he went to console the child and he wan holding them, what would be the first thought in your mind, especially if they were of a different race or did not appear to go together. Too many people would assume that he was up to no good. 

Unfortunately, men are suspect in these situations. We all have prejudices. Gira is right about a man as a Girl Scouts leader.

ETA: How many parents would avoid a Girl Scout group with a man as a leader?

I work one on one with a 10 year old special ed student in a very small pre-school through 8th grade school district. About 80 students total. The custodian is male. The two bus drivers are male. There is me. And everyone else from the superintendent/principal to teachers to other support staff is female.

I am aware but refuse to be overly guarded working with my one student. The rest of the students, particularly female ones, I am very careful around.

I am very careful to avoid anything that could be misconstrued from a sexual harassment standpoint. I know people think I can be standoffish. So, I understand how you feel.

[raeoflyte]

I believe azucena's dh is a preschool teacher.

[TheOtherMe]

My 2nd cousin came out to the extended family at his grandma's funeral because he had heard enough talk from his grandparents to know "it would break their hearts" and he didn't want to try to educate them as they were both dying of cancer.  So he made a decision which he still says he would make today, 13 years after his grandma died

He had no idea of how the rest of the aunt and uncles would take it.  Mom asked me what I thought and I told people are people and love who they love.  She had always liked this cousin so I asked her is he any different than he was before you knew he was gay.  She said no.  She thought a bit and then said something to the effect that people should be who they are.  I was really proud of her for being able to see that he was the same person she had loved since he was born.

That's the WWII generation and that is not what she grew up thinking or hearing.  My dad was much less accepting.  My cousin said (he never told me who and I don't need to know) that some of the aunts and uncles never talked to him again.

Hearing how some of the 1st cousins talked, I can imagine which of their parents never talked to him again.

We have had several gay and lesbian marriages in both of my parents' families now.  For me those kids (I still think of them as kids even though they are adults) are no different than before they came out.

Their marriages and relationships have the same issues as heterosexual marriages.  My lesbian cousin called her mom about 2 months after she got married and said her wife was beating her and what should she do.  Her mom told her to come home and she could stay there as long as she needed.  That marriage was the shortest one in our family.  Legal marriage was less than 4 months.  

The sad part is she is afraid to date "because she didn't see it coming" and doesn't know how she missed that.

[chiver78]

Jun 14, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Interesting you mention that I just read an opinion article on talking to boys about being boys.  I thought it was interesting because a big driver of joining hate groups is fear of change and being left behind in the new world order.  We need to do more to show young men that everyone having a seat at the table doesn't mean they have LESS.

I was always pissed at Phil for his rants about women taking jobs away from men.  O-kay well if women are outnumbering men in X then that means women are leaving Y.  Instead of fostering a system where men feel they are owed these jobs and that women are "stealing" them which prompts groups to insinuate that they can stop them, why aren't we encouraging men to adapt and fill in the employment gaps in sector Y?  We've done a lot to tell girls that they can do anything a man can do but we aren't telling men they can do anything a woman can do.

And we need to teach men it isn't weakness to question their sexuality and that sex with a woman isn't the pinnacle of manhood.  It's okay to be open, vulnerable and perhaps even experiment a little if you are comfortable doing so.  It's not a sign that you are less of a man for it.  You can't be afraid the queers are going to corrupt your kid if you've accepted that sexuality is not something to be afraid of.

www.cnn.com/2022/06/10/health/masculinity-conversation-boys-wellness/index.html

By fine-tuning the conversation in this direction, boys can see their rejection of "toxic" masculinity in a more positive light.

Demonstrations of empathy or vulnerability might be a radical, brave act rather than a cause of embarrassment. Being an ally to girls and others who are mistreated because of their gender identities might be seen as a sign of strength rather than a confession of bad behavior.

"If you come at anyone with a list of everything they do wrong, they are going to get defensive and angry," Mangino said. If you come at them with a list of the ways they can change themselves and the world for the better, on the other hand, they might open up. True gender equality won't take place until everyone is part of the conversation, she said.

ETA: I do believe a lot of us are going to have to die before real change happens.  While I may be open minded another person my age may not be and they are going to raise their children that way who raise their children that way.  People do not become more conservative as they age, it's we are now outdated because each generation after is ever so slightly more progressive.  Eventually it will run itself out but it's going to be a very long time before that happens.

I shouldn't admit this, but I'm gonna. as a mod on this board, I need to see what happens. that said, I blocked Phil a long time ago, for his opinions. I'll unblock him for moderating purposes, but I have zero interest in anything he has to say. I'm a fully functioning adult female, who's intelligent enough to have earned a BS.E degree that I'm well aware he thinks I stole from a "worthy white male". he can sit down and STFU in his retirement. and I hope he sees this post. 

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2022 17:40:42 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My 2nd cousin came out to the extended family at his grandma's funeral because he had heard enough talk from his grandparents to know "it would break their hearts" and he didn't want to try to educate them as they were both dying of cancer.  So he made a decision which he still says he would make today, 13 years after his grandma died

He had no idea of how the rest of the aunt and uncles would take it.  Mom asked me what I thought and I told people are people and love who they love.  She had always liked this cousin so I asked her is he any different than he was before you knew he was gay.  She said no.  She thought a bit and then said something to the effect that people should be who they are.  I was really proud of her for being able to see that he was the same person she had loved since he was born.

That's the WWII generation and that is not what she grew up thinking or hearing.  My dad was much less accepting.  My cousin said (he never told me who and I don't need to know) that some of the aunts and uncles never talked to him again.

Hearing how some of the 1st cousins talked, I can imagine which of their parents never talked to him again.

We have had several gay and lesbian marriages in both of my parents' families now.  For me those kids (I still think of them as kids even though they are adults) are no different than before they came out.

Their marriages and relationships have the same issues as heterosexual marriages.  My lesbian cousin called her mom about 2 months after she got married and said her wife was beating her and what should she do.  Her mom told her to come home and she could stay there as long as she needed.  That marriage was the shortest one in our family.  Legal marriage was less than 4 months.  

The sad part is she is afraid to date "because she didn't see it coming" and doesn't know how she missed that.

I was going to “like” your post, until I got to the part where your cousin’s new wife was beating her.

I know someone who I finally had to just agree to disagree with her on gay people. Then, surprise, surprise, her young nephew told his family he was gay. Me being me, I reminded her of all the ugly things she’d said and felt about gay people and asked her how she felt about her nephew being gay. She said she was wrong, because her nephew is still her nephew that she loves dearly, so she just has to deal with him being gay and accept him doing what feels right to him.

[tallguy]

Jun 14, 2022 17:52:41 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 14, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Interesting you mention that I just read an opinion article on talking to boys about being boys.  I thought it was interesting because a big driver of joining hate groups is fear of change and being left behind in the new world order.  We need to do more to show young men that everyone having a seat at the table doesn't mean they have LESS.

I was always pissed at Phil for his rants about women taking jobs away from men.  O-kay well if women are outnumbering men in X then that means women are leaving Y.  Instead of fostering a system where men feel they are owed these jobs and that women are "stealing" them which prompts groups to insinuate that they can stop them, why aren't we encouraging men to adapt and fill in the employment gaps in sector Y?  We've done a lot to tell girls that they can do anything a man can do but we aren't telling men they can do anything a woman can do.

And we need to teach men it isn't weakness to question their sexuality and that sex with a woman isn't the pinnacle of manhood.  It's okay to be open, vulnerable and perhaps even experiment a little if you are comfortable doing so.  It's not a sign that you are less of a man for it.  You can't be afraid the queers are going to corrupt your kid if you've accepted that sexuality is not something to be afraid of.

www.cnn.com/2022/06/10/health/masculinity-conversation-boys-wellness/index.html

By fine-tuning the conversation in this direction, boys can see their rejection of "toxic" masculinity in a more positive light.

Demonstrations of empathy or vulnerability might be a radical, brave act rather than a cause of embarrassment. Being an ally to girls and others who are mistreated because of their gender identities might be seen as a sign of strength rather than a confession of bad behavior.

"If you come at anyone with a list of everything they do wrong, they are going to get defensive and angry," Mangino said. If you come at them with a list of the ways they can change themselves and the world for the better, on the other hand, they might open up. True gender equality won't take place until everyone is part of the conversation, she said.

ETA: I do believe a lot of us are going to have to die before real change happens.  While I may be open minded another person my age may not be and they are going to raise their children that way who raise their children that way.  People do not become more conservative as they age, it's we are now outdated because each generation after is ever so slightly more progressive.  Eventually it will run itself out but it's going to be a very long time before that happens.

I shouldn't admit this, but I'm gonna. as a mod on this board, I need to see what happens. that said, I blocked Phil a long time ago, for his opinions. I'll unblock him for moderating purposes, but I have zero interest in anything he has to say. I'm a fully functioning adult female, who's intelligent enough to have earned a BS.E degree that I'm well aware he thinks I stole from a "worthy white male". he can sit down and STFU in his retirement. and I hope he sees this post. 

Why?  It's not like he ever really provided a lot of value before....  

[chiver78]

Jun 14, 2022 18:14:14 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 14, 2022 17:52:41 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I shouldn't admit this, but I'm gonna. as a mod on this board, I need to see what happens. that said, I blocked Phil a long time ago, for his opinions. I'll unblock him for moderating purposes, but I have zero interest in anything he has to say. I'm a fully functioning adult female, who's intelligent enough to have earned a BS.E degree that I'm well aware he thinks I stole from a "worthy white male". he can sit down and STFU in his retirement. and I hope he sees this post. 

Why?  It's not like he ever really provided a lot of value before....  

I'll answer for visibility. I can't moderate someone I have blocked. sadly, I had to block him before I earned myself a vacation in responding to some of his posts. there's a lot of hateful posters I'd love to block. to answer your immediate question, if he goes over the top in posting his horrid opinions of women, I'd be deleting his post and documenting in our archives the post that was the straw that broke this camel's back. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Is Phil even around anymore?  I haven't seen a post from him in forever. 

[Deleted]

FWIW, this thread is why I'm here on this forum. Because intelligent people have the courage to speak honestly and other intelligent people have the wisdom to listen and respond. Our world, our communities, our neighborhoods, our families aren't easy to navigate but most of the time we can come here to get a window into how we figure this stuff out and move forward one day at a time. I'm grateful for that.

I don't know the blocked person Phil so I have no bias going forward except I don't tolerate any isms, like racism, sexism, agism, etc.

[Deleted]

I believe that what these white supremacists don’t want to ever admit is that they are acting out of fear. If everyone is treated equally regardless of the color of their skin, their religion, their gender, their sexuality, white heterosexual men lose the power they have just because they are white men that people think are heterosexual.

I’ve seen many quotes and memes saying that it doesn’t dim your light to light someone else’s candle, or something like that. I don’t remember it verbatim, but I remember the message, that if there’s something I can do to encourage or support the next person being able to shine to the best of their ability and live their best life, it doesn’t take anything from me and my life. 

But these folks are fighting hard as hell to try to hold on to the notion that they are superior to other groups of people and that they get to tell other people what to do in their personal lives. Which imo, just shows that they know they aren’t anything special, they are JUST the “right” gender and skin color. If they are so great, why are they so threatened by people that are different from them? They SCREAM that they are for “smaller” government, but they are mighty interested in trying to use the government to try to control what people do in their personal lives and what women and minorities can and cannot do. That is not how people who are secure with themselves act. But that’s just my opinion.

[andi9899]

Jun 14, 2022 11:36:55 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 14, 2022 11:11:17 GMT -5 tractor said:

I still can't figure out why people care, are they really that afraid someone might "turn" them gay? I have many gay friends, and have yet to decide that women no longer appeal to me.

I've never understood this either.  It makes no sense.  What are people so damn afraid of?

My oldest son is gay and I struggle with it a lot. Not because I care about his sexuality at all (I was never really thrilled with the idea of daughter in-laws anyhow), but because I worry about how some people will treat him because of it. Its hard knowing your kid is going to go through life as a target for psycho hate groups.

I feel this. It has to be harder living in the country. Around here there are so many places that are inclusive. Hell, I'm usually the minority (well, I'm always a minority, but still) when I go places and half the time I'm one of the few straight people at whatever gathering I'm at. That has to be much harder where you are. I know you'll support him, and hopefully he can find some other safe places in his community as well.

I wanted to go to pride with the girls last weekend but Ms Rona had other plans for me. That bitch.

[Deleted]

One of my mantras is that I never have less when I give something away, like respect. Fearful people are people to be feared, because their fear and insecurity fuels their desire to demean and destroy others.

Our Houston Pride Parade is this weekend and there will be even greater precautions because one of the Idaho freaks is from Conroe, very close to here, and he was released on bail. Another six of the Idaho sickos are from Texas too. I have friends who will be at the parade and I fear for them but I trust our law enforcement to keep them safe. I'm not a big fan of local law sometimes, but I trust them on this stuff.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I read in a book I've forgotten the title to talked about poverty in the South during the Reformation.

There were quite a lot of poor white Southern people who had a beef with the gentry over it all.

The gentry knew if the poor whites united with the newly freed blacks they would be fucked with a capital F.

So they worked hard to convince poor white people that yes their life sucked BUT in exchange for allowing the rich people to continue to rule they would ensure at least everyone was better than those negroes over there

And giving people someone they can feel superior over is a VERY powerful tool.

Corretta Scott King said the government was already pissed with her husband over his work regarding African American rights.

They were REALLY pissed and terrified over his next goal which was to unite poor people of all ethnicities.

That is a block powerful enough to topple them all.

To give up the illusion of superiority would mean many of these people would have to face the truth about who is really at fault for their lot in life.

The Republican party is doomed that happens so they either need new boogeyman which is becoming a challenge or renew hatred and fear over old ones and hope to ride it to the polls.

Unfortunately they got handed a superseding in the form of a global pandemic so now they have a plum audience looking for something anything to blame and seize control over.

Demo aren't going to win by being the bigger man or appealing to logic. They need to hammer home that message about who really holds the cards and stress exactly how little they've done.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 14, 2022 14:58:48 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jun 14, 2022 13:05:42 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Well, he just told me freshman year of college when home for Christmas break, so I'm still processing...it's taking me awhile.  It was kind of a What?  Really?  Are you sure?  And I think I'm still mostly at that stage. Plus, I mostly just post about stuff he does that drives me nuts.

But, it does shine some light on why he chose Minneapolis over Ames despite being uncomfortable about moving to a big city. He loves it there now though, and I think for the most part his generation is quite accepting of everyone.

I still worry.  Like, how will his brother accept it when he finally comes out to him?  Ex 2.0 is homophobic with a capital H.  I'm sure he is filling Carrot up with his opinions on the subject when he's with him.

As far as I recall, I’ve only said it here once, that my son is gay.

DD had been telling me he was, and I finally took him outside on the patio (for privacy) and asked him point blank. He mentioned that day a couple years ago and told me how he was so afraid of how I might react and how after we finished talking I hugged him and asked him “now what you want for dinner” and how much he loved me for that. 

Like you, I was and still am afraid of how other people would treat him and that somebody might try to harm him just because he’s gay.

Most of my family feels some type of way about gay people though. They understand not to say anything crazy around me. My kids’ paternal grandparents cut DS off because he’s gay, they didn’t even go to his high school graduation, they just stopped fooling with him period. Which pissed me off SO bad and I stopped fooling with THEM, even though DS tried to convince me he didn’t care. 

DD use to feel some type of way about gay people in general, and her brother being gay in particular. But she became more accepting as she matured and she got over herself years ago. Oddly enough when she watched an interview with Caitlyn Jenner a few years ago, it bothered her. She said she can’t imagine living your whole life afraid to be who you really are, and that it’s sad so many people feel like they have to do that. I didn’t remind her that the way she use to think was why it’s hard for people to just be themselves, I was just glad that she truly was no longer “that” person.

I don't think I've ever mentioned my son being gay on this board.  I don't feel really great about mentioning it now either.  Mainly because he's only told me recently and his dad the year before, so it's obviously still a private thing for him, and doesn't seem my business to share.  I think his friend group is probably aware though.

Thankfully, he will have zero issues with family.  His dad's side is super liberal and even his 80 something grandparents on that side will be 100% fine with it.  My family has a few right leaners.  My mom and stepdad are diehard Trumpers and fox news, NRA backers, but I have an uncle that is gay (my mom's brother) and he tested the waters.  He was married with 5 kids most grown when he started coming home for visits without his wife, next thing it's figured out that they divorced, a while later he starts bringing a "friend" with.  It was a little awkward at first, because while everyone suspected they were more than friends, nobody wanted to ask.  I remember the first time my mom put them up for one of their visits and she wasn't sure if they needed one bedroom or two, so finally she's like, "Screw it, I'll let them have the entire loft.  There are two bedrooms up there and they can situate themselves however they want".  Well, it's been at least 20 years now and his SO (now husband) is one of our family's favorite people.  My mom and her sisters and brother go on trips together all the time with their spouses and it's a complete non-issue in our family. 

[stillmovingforward]

Plus DS1 still getting used to and navigating the waters of his parents knowing. Carrot loves his bigger brother very much from the sounds of it. He's going to ask uncomfortable questions of his older brother but I'll pretty much bet he becomes DS1's biggest defendant to DS2's dad. My kids are all 'ride or die' for each other. 

[daisylu]

raeoflyte, this is the first time I have seen your story. I am sorry for all that you and your family has had to go through.

I agree with the poster (Drama?) who said the more progress is made the bigger the backlash.

I believe those who spread that hatred from are the minority, which is why the majority needs to be more active and vocal.