teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 5, 2022 16:40:44 GMT -5
I hate "sports" as we currently use the term. I like the idea of including everyone that wants to be involved, and encouraging the physical activity. I hate the competitive aspect of sports. It's divisive. It creates this false dichotomy of winner and loser, with corresponding positive/negative connotations. The drive to be ranked the winner encourages undesirable side effects - cheating, heckling, intimidation, etc. I'd much rather we encouraged non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration, instead. Ones that include rather than exclude/eliminate. Ones that create a team based on the members' diversity of skills/talents/viewpoints.This competitive sports model is everywhere in our culture - politics, job competition, college application process, school grades, reality tv like the Bachelor/Bachelorette or the Voice, the Emmys/Oscars/other awards shows, what's the top box office release this week... I agree with you - I'm more of a collaborator/lets make a difference/achieve something as a group than a competative. I want to do the best I can do - I don't get a "warm fuzzy" from doing something better than someone else. There are more non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration - but the kids who do those things are nerds or geeks or there's the hint of gayness to them... band, theater, debate, even when I was in the "Horseback riding club" in HS (it was an urban school... horse were a 50 minute drive and the majority of us had no experience in a barn or with an animal that was not a "house pet") there was some collaboration and since we were involved with the rest of the school - we had to do some planning - raise money, create a presence/float/something for 2 yearly parades (on for homecoming the other for a community parade), come up with a way to identify ourselves and our club (t-shirts the easiest). The thing was - if you weren't on a sports team - you didn't count. If you were on a sports team you only sort of counted... you had to be one of the top athletes to actually "count" - no one cared or knew about any of the other clubs. The sportsball stadium would be packed for football games - hardly anyone went to the concerts put on by the school's bands, orchestra, choir. hardly anyone showed up for the 2 yearly staged productions (sometimes musicals sometimes not). If you don't do a 'sports' you aren't a "team player" and you aren't building character (being a good loser or a good winner) and you aren't learning "leadership" skills. From what I can tell the only thing most "sports" teach the majority of players - is to "do what you are told. Know your place and stay in it." FWIW: I think most some of the basis for my relatives anger at "liberals" and "democrats" and currently the LGBTQ+ and transgendered population and still with brown people - is that all of them do not know their place and aren't willing to stay in it. A relative seems to think the LGBTQ+ and transgendered people were doing just fine - before all these demands for rights and needing to be the center of attention and forcing other people to "be like them".... my relative's words not mine... and I was like "What are you talking about?" and then it hit me - my relative was probably ok with LGBTQ+ and transgendered people as long as they "knew their place" which means they remain outsiders and second class (or third class citizens) and if they get beat up or treated poorly by the laws - well, they could always just be "normal" and then they wouldn't have those problems. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this equates to the LGBTQ/transgendered NOT being team players, They know their place - they are just refusing to "play that position". When I was thinking about collaborative activities, musical was definitely on my mind. Our school district has a strong music program, so the question isn't "do you want to play an instrument", it's "which instrument do you want to try first?" There was a strong drama streak back when my older kids were in HS, so musical season actually interfered with sports. Musical had so many different groups it could appeal to and bring together : the drama loving actors, the comedic actors, the ones who loved to play villains, the musicians in the Pit, the set builders, stage crew, cosmetology doing hair and makeup, the costume crew, the techies working lights and sound and special effects, the promoters getting program ad revenue, ticket sales, concessions, Munchkin wranglers (managing small kids in cameo roles)...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2022 16:51:01 GMT -5
My son is on the autism spectrum and was a very unhappy little kid. Skinny and uncoordinated, he never would have made any team he had to try out for. Poor little guy. In every picture I ever took of him, he looked like his dog just died. Hockey Quebec took everybody, and I've never seen him happier than when he was on the ice. He was like a different child. Scgal would prefer it he didn't play. how would it be to have everything you did in life be seen by others as losing? think about that.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Aug 6, 2022 5:59:58 GMT -5
PS- thanks for reposting that. so the liberalism in question is "coddling" basically. we are not manly enough. we are a bunch of pussies. so, here is my next question: are we REALLY more of a bunch of pussies now than we were in 1973? RvW is gone. so is the better part of the VRA. income disparity is worse. more people are living below the poverty line than then. more people have zero dollars in wealth. the quality of our air and drinking water is down. housing is out of reach for more Americans. FMW in real terms has fallen 30%. Junior Colleges are no longer free. we have all KINDS of conservative reforms in taxes, schools, etc. it would be VERY difficult to argue that we are MORE liberal than we were in 1973. so, why did we not have MORE of a problem in 1973? did it really take 50 more years for conservatives to get pissed off enough to shoot up schools? i don't think that excuse makes sense. it HAS to be something else. what is it? You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. So to sum up: everyone needs to get back in their place like the 50's Women need to get in that kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, rattle those pots and pans, and look good doing it Gays need to get back in that closet Blacks need their own schools and the back of the bus and if they are lucky, won't get lynched This country would be all parades and sunshine if it weren't for these woke liberals. Got it!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 6, 2022 6:34:29 GMT -5
Part of the country has very romantic notions of the past because they don't think at all about how everyone lived, just their group. Throughout history poor people have needed two or more people in the household to work to survive and hopefully move forward. That was true in the 50s and the 70s. Work has changed since then. There are fewer well-paying manufacturing jobs and the mix of FT to PT increases on the PT side every year because that's what employers want.
I suppose if you can't handle nuance and more than two choices you love the fantasy that everything was better when people had fewer choices of what they could be or do. Personally, I'm OK with lots of options. The women's movement of the 60s, the suffragette movement for voting, and the civil rights movement were all about people unhappy being in their boxes. Trans people wanting equal rights is just the current manifestation of this. A good society IMO supports everyone. A bad lazy society prefers the simple boxes of the past. MO.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Aug 6, 2022 7:30:35 GMT -5
You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. So to sum up: everyone needs to get back in their place like the 50's Women need to get in that kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, rattle those pots and pans, and look good doing it Gays need to get back in that closet Blacks need their own schools and the back of the bus and if they are lucky, won't get lynched This country would be all parades and sunshine if it weren't for these woke liberals. Got it! WOW if that is your take away from what I said...how to twist it up
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Aug 6, 2022 7:37:14 GMT -5
Liberals also support the equality of women, and don't expect women to provide sex just because the man wants them to. Nor do they hate and punish the women who quite justifiably refuse. they also want drugs decriminalized. and are soft on public nudity. and think dildoes and porn are ok, so long as they are not exploitative. a billion things that drive social conservatives absolutely nuts. again, i am not sure ANY of that has to do with our problems. Im conservative. Ok with nude beaches and such, love my sex toys, enjoy watching porn. Husband don't expect sex but I think its our job to make sure we each satisfied. Oh no mabe I'm turning liberal eeeek. No I don't think that is it.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Aug 6, 2022 7:40:35 GMT -5
Backlash against the New Left? i am not sure i would put it that way, because it is more about the grand vision of society. it is not really policy based. the neocons were committed ideologues. and like most committed ideologues they won't let a little matter like the truth get in their way. and that sort of excessive, radical idealism is exceedingly dangerous, as WW2 clearly illustrated. have you seen the Power of Nightmares, TG? it covers this item REALLY well. this is just the first 12 mins, if you don't have time right now. Thanks a good video clip, when time permits I will look up to movie. Makes you think I just don't know if it is the way it was intended tho
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Aug 6, 2022 7:48:57 GMT -5
You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. Most of us started trying to have a conversation with you, but you aren't really here to do that. You're here to make sure you're heard from what I can tell. You have been just as belittling to others. I try to answer when the conversation can be meaningful, respectful, if not attacked (trying to avoid those but so far I'm failing at that).
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Aug 6, 2022 7:56:24 GMT -5
My son is on the autism spectrum and was a very unhappy little kid. Skinny and uncoordinated, he never would have made any team he had to try out for. Poor little guy. In every picture I ever took of him, he looked like his dog just died. Hockey Quebec took everybody, and I've never seen him happier than when he was on the ice. He was like a different child. Scgal would prefer if he didn't play. Then there should be different divisions for other group. Why should the other kids that excel in fitness want to push themselves and their team to be held back because the kids that are not to a fitness standard are playing there. I have 2 nephews with autism one severly and one high functioning. I get you want your kid to be included but that is not fair to the others also.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 6, 2022 8:31:55 GMT -5
My son is on the autism spectrum and was a very unhappy little kid. Skinny and uncoordinated, he never would have made any team he had to try out for. Poor little guy. In every picture I ever took of him, he looked like his dog just died. Hockey Quebec took everybody, and I've never seen him happier than when he was on the ice. He was like a different child. Scgal would prefer if he didn't play. Then there should be different divisions for other group. Why should the other kids that excel in fitness want to push themselves and their team to be held back because the kids that are not to a fitness standard are playing there. I have 2 nephews with autism one severly and one high functioning. I get you want your kid to be included but that is not fair to the others also. Perhaps the issue is "what should be the official sanctioned "division" and what should be the different "division"?" In the part of the country I live in, participatory sport divisions have become more the norm and "club" sport divisions exist in their own little worlds for the more serious athletes (or more serious parents at least).
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 6, 2022 12:46:39 GMT -5
My son is on the autism spectrum and was a very unhappy little kid. Skinny and uncoordinated, he never would have made any team he had to try out for. Poor little guy. In every picture I ever took of him, he looked like his dog just died. Hockey Quebec took everybody, and I've never seen him happier than when he was on the ice. He was like a different child. Scgal would prefer if he didn't play. Then there should be different divisions for other group. Why should the other kids that excel in fitness want to push themselves and their team to be held back because the kids that are not to a fitness standard are playing there. I have 2 nephews with autism one severly and one high functioning. I get you want your kid to be included but that is not fair to the others also. It's just a kids' recreational sport, for fun, not a G8 summit. So, one hockey team for Down Syndrome kids, another for deaf kids, another for autistic kids, another for kids in wheelchairs? No, that won't make them 'different" at all. Oh noes! What if it's an autistic kid in a wheelchair? Which team does that child play on? Don't be ridiculous. Let them all play and let them all have fun. It's not tryouts for the NHL.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 6, 2022 12:59:32 GMT -5
So to sum up: everyone needs to get back in their place like the 50's Women need to get in that kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, rattle those pots and pans, and look good doing it Gays need to get back in that closet Blacks need their own schools and the back of the bus and if they are lucky, won't get lynched This country would be all parades and sunshine if it weren't for these woke liberals. Got it! WOW if that is your take away from what I said...how to twist it up That's exactly what you said. Life was better when one parent stayed home. You KNOW that's going to be the woman. Screw her hopes and dreams of being a doctor or an environmental lawyer. She should be elbow-deep in dirty diapers, popping Valium and drinking because she's so bored and miserarable. They were drugged up to the gills. www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.html
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 6, 2022 13:00:10 GMT -5
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 6, 2022 13:03:51 GMT -5
Why should a child with a disability be forever stuck in the stands, watching other kids play sports, when all they want to be is a "regular kid"? I'm not talking elite sports or traveling teams, and frankly, even most kids on the elite teams never turn professional. I'm just talking about a kid who wants to play a sport, or at least try.
My DS hasn't participated on a regular team since preschool, and that's just sad. One thing he DID participate in when he got older was Miracle League Baseball, which as a parent was the most rewarding activity he's ever done. All the kids on the teams had different disabilities, but the whole experience was completely positive. Cheering parents, etc. All these kids ever wanted to do was hit a baseball, and run bases, which is exactly what they got to do. The ballfields are constructed so even kids in wheelchairs can "run" bases or play the outfield. I still remember the big smiles on a bunch of those kids, especially those with the most severe disabilities. So, what's wrong with just wanting to be a kid?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 6, 2022 13:04:32 GMT -5
.....and, if you want to go back to the 'good old days', then that's when women, blacks and gays knew their place.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 6, 2022 13:42:35 GMT -5
I was teaching at a very small high school. It was a continuing struggle to get an adequate number to turn out to field a football team each year. At a faculty meeting one morning, the head coach voiced extreme frustration. In the school bulletin had been a little blurb congratulating the local community based soccer team for a successful season (I think they finished second in the county league). The coach felt it was inappropriate for the school to praise the students who had chosen to play soccer in a community league instead of turning out for the school football team. He indicated he knew the school couldn't stop students from playing soccer but the school shouldn't do anything to encourage it.
I see a similar dynamic here. Some see us putting too much emphasis on participation teams to the detriment of competitive teams. I doubt any are saying it isn't okay to give opportunities for all, it just shouldn't be the focus.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 6, 2022 13:49:53 GMT -5
WOW if that is your take away from what I said...how to twist it up That's exactly what you said. Life was better when one parent stayed home. You KNOW that's going to be the woman. Screw her hopes and dreams of being a doctor or an environmental lawyer. She should be elbow-deep in dirty diapers, popping Valium and drinking because she's so bored and miserarable. They were drugged up to the gills. www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.htmlI would be screwed if things were still like this. I have no desire to be married or have children, but in the 50s (and up until I think the 70s or so), women weren't allowed to have a mortgage. It would be hard for me to have the job I have right now. I wouldn't be able to have a checking account or a credit card. How TF would I have been able to be on my own? I would have had not much choice but to marry and pop out kids, or be an old maid. And since there wasn't much in the way of reproductive choices....I would have ended up with kids I never wanted. I suspect multiple older generation women in my family (rest is peace ladies) only got married to survive. They didn't have a lot of options other than that. Many of them didn't have kids, but they didn't have jobs either (or maybe just a simple job). I have at least 2 great great aunts who basically sat at home and drank/smoked all day. I am so glad I was born in the 80s!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 6, 2022 14:01:51 GMT -5
Back in the 60s, a friend of the family needed an appendectomy. Her husband told the doctor, 'While you're in there, take her uterus out." She had no say in the matter, wasn't even told, and the doctor did just that.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 6, 2022 14:07:08 GMT -5
That is so f-ed up!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 6, 2022 15:04:06 GMT -5
I was teaching at a very small high school. It was a continuing struggle to get an adequate number to turn out to field a football team each year. At a faculty meeting one morning, the head coach voiced extreme frustration. In the school bulletin had been a little blurb congratulating the local community based soccer team for a successful season (I think they finished second in the county league). The coach felt it was inappropriate for the school to praise the students who had chosen to play soccer in a community league instead of turning out for the school football team. He indicated he knew the school couldn't stop students from playing soccer but the school shouldn't do anything to encourage it. I see a similar dynamic here. Some see us putting too much emphasis on participation teams to the detriment of competitive teams. I doubt any are saying it isn't okay to give opportunities for all, it just shouldn't be the focus. I think where you fall on this might be colored by your experiences or your athleticism. I think opportunities for all should be the rule for HS sports and below. For schools big enough there are often varsity and JV teams. The varsity is for the better athletes and/or the ones the coach wants. Less popular sports often take anyone willing. I think tryouts can screen out people who could become good if they were taught the game.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 6, 2022 15:06:43 GMT -5
Back in the 60s, a friend of the family needed an appendectomy. Her husband told the doctor, 'While you're in there, take her uterus out." She had no say in the matter, wasn't even told, and the doctor did just that. I'd need bail. and this is said by someone who has zero use for her uterus, that's not even the point.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 6, 2022 15:12:14 GMT -5
WOW if that is your take away from what I said...how to twist it up That's exactly what you said. Life was better when one parent stayed home. You KNOW that's going to be the woman. Screw her hopes and dreams of being a doctor or an environmental lawyer. She should be elbow-deep in dirty diapers, popping Valium and drinking because she's so bored and miserarable. They were drugged up to the gills. www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.htmlThat link is tough but obviously a reason the woman's movement really jelled.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 6, 2022 15:38:38 GMT -5
Back in the 60s, a friend of the family needed an appendectomy. Her husband told the doctor, 'While you're in there, take her uterus out." She had no say in the matter, wasn't even told, and the doctor did just that. I'd need bail. and this is said by someone who has zero use for her uterus, that's not even the point. Posting bail and being released? You would have been institutionalized and lobotomized immediately. There won't have been a hearing to set bail.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 6, 2022 15:50:08 GMT -5
I'd need bail. and this is said by someone who has zero use for her uterus, that's not even the point. Posting bail and being released? You would have been institutionalized and lobotomized immediately. There won't have been a hearing to set bail. I'm well aware. the comment was made to entice a response just like this one. so, thanks for taking the bait. 🙂 I can't fathom a life where I'd need permission from a man to be a functional adult, and I'm only 43. overturning Roe isn't about abortion, and they aren't stopping at Roe. this was never about saving the unborn, since their mistresses and daughters have always been able to get the care they needed. this has always been about control. I'm watching the proceedings carefully, with an eye to who isn't batshit crazy in Washington. I'm not technically past childbearing age, but it's coming soon. I intend to fight for my sisters, and any other minority whose rights are under threat, but if this all becomes untenable, I have no problem moving to Canada where I'm also a citizen.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 6, 2022 15:51:38 GMT -5
I'd need bail. and this is said by someone who has zero use for her uterus, that's not even the point. Posting bail and being released? You would have been institutionalized and lobotomized immediately. There won't have been a hearing to set bail. That's cruel and apparently very 1940s to 1950s. Led me to find this link of horror stories- historycollection.com/10-horrifying-examples-people-subjected-lobotomies-tragic-results/2/When Rosemary was 23 Joseph Kennedy, worried over the potential public embarrassment that she could cause the family with her increasingly reckless behavior, consulted a neurosurgeon about the relatively new procedure of lobotomy. At the time, in 1941, only 80 or so lobotomies had been performed in the United States. After discussing the risks and benefits of the procedure with doctors, but pointedly not with his wife, he decided to have Rosemary undergo the procedure.
Rosemary underwent a prefrontal lobotomy. The operation was performed by Dr. James Watts and Dr. Walter Freeman. The conscious Rosemary was under an anesthetic and asked to recite the Lord’s Prayer and other easily recalled things while the doctors cut into the brain. They continued until Rosemary could no longer respond coherently, at which point they declared the operation complete. Rosemary left the operating table with the mental capacity of a two-year-old child. She was sent immediately to a long-term care facility, and Joseph Kennedy went home to explain to his wife.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 6, 2022 15:56:48 GMT -5
I forget that I grew up in MA where the Kennedy family is like the next door neighbors. Rosemary's case is common knowledge around here, sad as it is. mat her father rot in the hell he believed in, for what he did to her.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 6, 2022 18:36:25 GMT -5
Posting bail and being released? You would have been institutionalized and lobotomized immediately. There won't have been a hearing to set bail. I'm well aware. the comment was made to entice a response just like this one. so, thanks for taking the bait. 🙂 I can't fathom a life where I'd need permission from a man to be a functional adult, and I'm only 43. overturning Roe isn't about abortion, and they aren't stopping at Roe. this was never about saving the unborn, since their mistresses and daughters have always been able to get the care they needed. this has always been about control. I'm watching the proceedings carefully, with an eye to who isn't batshit crazy in Washington. I'm not technically past childbearing age, but it's coming soon. I intend to fight for my sisters, and any other minority whose rights are under threat, but if this all becomes untenable, I have no problem moving to Canada where I'm also a citizen. Same, I'm 42. Same again! I'm doing as much as I can....mostly in donating to organizations to help women in states that have taken away reproductive rights, so women can safely travel and get access to the care they deserve. And I don't have duel citizenship, but I have my eye on a few places I could get my mom and I to when (not if) shit hits the fan. 10 years ago, if you had told me my country would end up being the way it is now, I would have laughed. How naïve I was!
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Aug 7, 2022 7:29:09 GMT -5
Then there should be different divisions for other group. Why should the other kids that excel in fitness want to push themselves and their team to be held back because the kids that are not to a fitness standard are playing there. I have 2 nephews with autism one severly and one high functioning. I get you want your kid to be included but that is not fair to the others also. It's just a kids' recreational sport, for fun, not a G8 summit. So, one hockey team for Down Syndrome kids, another for deaf kids, another for autistic kids, another for kids in wheelchairs? No, that won't make them 'different" at all. Oh noes! What if it's an autistic kid in a wheelchair? Which team does that child play on? Don't be ridiculous. Let them all play and let them all have fun. It's not tryouts for the NHL. I get it and the kids with special needs there are special olympics and teams.
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scgal
Well-Known Member
Joined: Sept 18, 2020 16:56:48 GMT -5
Posts: 1,305
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Post by scgal on Aug 7, 2022 7:39:14 GMT -5
WOW if that is your take away from what I said...how to twist it up That's exactly what you said. Life was better when one parent stayed home. You KNOW that's going to be the woman. Screw her hopes and dreams of being a doctor or an environmental lawyer. She should be elbow-deep in dirty diapers, popping Valium and drinking because she's so bored and miserarable. They were drugged up to the gills. www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.htmlThat is just it I, you or anyone else doesn't know it will be the woman. I also mentioned that women are considered equals. I know a few families where the woman is the bread winner and the husband is stay at home dad. It just made sense to them. I don't want to have it for women like it was back then. Families were better off when one person stayed home one worked and they could afford to do so.
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scgal
Well-Known Member
Joined: Sept 18, 2020 16:56:48 GMT -5
Posts: 1,305
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Post by scgal on Aug 7, 2022 7:47:57 GMT -5
That's exactly what you said. Life was better when one parent stayed home. You KNOW that's going to be the woman. Screw her hopes and dreams of being a doctor or an environmental lawyer. She should be elbow-deep in dirty diapers, popping Valium and drinking because she's so bored and miserarable. They were drugged up to the gills. www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.htmlThat link is tough but obviously a reason the woman's movement really jelled. Ok about to get flamed again. Now BESIDES these ads being grimy to the women being subservient to a man. There is not much difference I see in today's world. How many do any of us know including ourselves take anti-depressents, anxiety meds. I am willing to bet very few people can say they know of no one. We just call it something different today. I don't see a whole lot of difference in between then and today.
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