teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 4, 2022 21:13:32 GMT -5
PS- thanks for reposting that. so the liberalism in question is "coddling" basically. we are not manly enough. we are a bunch of pussies. so, here is my next question: are we REALLY more of a bunch of pussies now than we were in 1973? RvW is gone. so is the better part of the VRA. income disparity is worse. more people are living below the poverty line than then. more people have zero dollars in wealth. the quality of our air and drinking water is down. housing is out of reach for more Americans. FMW in real terms has fallen 30%. Junior Colleges are no longer free. we have all KINDS of conservative reforms in taxes, schools, etc. it would be VERY difficult to argue that we are MORE liberal than we were in 1973. so, why did we not have MORE of a problem in 1973? did it really take 50 more years for conservatives to get pissed off enough to shoot up schools? i don't think that excuse makes sense. it HAS to be something else. what is it? You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. Not a school shooting but the Buffalo grocery store shooting (because the shooter ruled out going to a school - there would be more surveillance, so settled for a store). linkDoesn't sound very liberal to me - from a rural red area, targeting specifically the highest percentage Black zipcode to kill as many Black people as possible, motivated by WHITE SUPREMACIST beliefs. Nice projection attempt, though.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 21:53:32 GMT -5
Wait a minute....wasn't the world full of a bunch of peace loving, hippie liberals back in the 60's and 70s? Why weren't there a bunch of mass murders back then (cult suicides aside) I'm even more confused, because so many of those hippie liberals from the 60's and 70's are now the Trump loving gun enthusiasts boomers, aren't they? Maybe my timing is off, but weren't most of the kids at Woodstock around 18-22 years old? That would have made them the first year boomers born between 1948-1951? That's boomer generation right? What the hell happened to them? I'm thinking no. Only a small subset of humans in the US went to Woodstock. The most likely profile for a mass shooter is male, white, and between the ages of 18 and 30. 21 www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/us/gun-ownership-numbers-us-cec/index.htmlWhite men have the highest rates of gun ownership
Three in 10 adults say they personally own a gun, while four in 10 say they live in a household where someone owns a gun, according to a 2017 survey from Pew Research Center.
On the whole, gun owners are more likely to be White and male. They're also more likely to live in rural areas and identify as Republican.
About 48% of White men say they own a gun, the Pew survey found. By contrast, 24% of White women and 24% of non-White men said they owned a gun. Women of color reported the lowest rates of gun ownership at 16%.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, there is a stark partisan divide in gun ownership. About 44% of adults who identify as Republican or lean Republican say they own a gun, while just 20% of those who identify as Democrat or lean Democrat say they do, according to Pew.
Where a person lives also plays a role. The Pew survey found that 46% of those who lived in rural areas said they owned a gun, while only 28% of suburbanites and 19% of city dwellers owned a gun.
And while about half of gun owners own one or two guns, 8% of gun owners own 10 or more -- a figure that amounts to about 40% of the total US gun stock, according to the report.dj approved with one small correction.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 22:01:05 GMT -5
PS- thanks for reposting that. so the liberalism in question is "coddling" basically. we are not manly enough. we are a bunch of pussies. so, here is my next question: are we REALLY more of a bunch of pussies now than we were in 1973? RvW is gone. so is the better part of the VRA. income disparity is worse. more people are living below the poverty line than then. more people have zero dollars in wealth. the quality of our air and drinking water is down. housing is out of reach for more Americans. FMW in real terms has fallen 30%. Junior Colleges are no longer free. we have all KINDS of conservative reforms in taxes, schools, etc. it would be VERY difficult to argue that we are MORE liberal than we were in 1973. so, why did we not have MORE of a problem in 1973? did it really take 50 more years for conservatives to get pissed off enough to shoot up schools? i don't think that excuse makes sense. it HAS to be something else. what is it? You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. there is no evidence that liberals are shooting up schools, whatsoever. most of these kids come from very conservative backgrounds, and hate liberals. if you think otherwise, you are going to have to bring proof. i am not blasting you for expecting people to work. i am not blasting you for voicing your opinion. i am not blasting you for expecting people to pay off their student loans. but keep in mind, that my parents went to school FOR FREE. that was a COLLEGE EDUCATION. my mom got a MS from Berkeley. FOR FREE. that was paid for by a much more liberal system than we live in today. and there were far fewer mass shootings back then. i find the rest of your post contradictory. on the one hand, you are agreeing that the hardships people endure today are much worse than they were half a century go. but the things that have engendered those hardships are the cutbacks in social programs. in other words, it was the LOSS of liberal economics that created the hardships. liberals are not to blame for unraveling policies that they created and support. for the record, i disagree that economic hardships are fundamentally the problem. i was simply pointing out that liberal economic and social policies have been systematically undermined or destroyed since 1973. political and social conservatism has been on the rise my entire adult life. that is a fact. there is absolutely no question about it. it is bourne out in facts, and in history. i won't burden this board by presenting it when it is as plain as day.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 22:09:49 GMT -5
Kids are growing up feeling entitled.
for the record, i think this is a small part of it. but it makes a large argument too small for my tastes. i think that MOST of the problem is a sense of "loss of status". there are a lot of elements to that, all of which are interconnected. another piece of it is a "loss of purpose". it is sort of a mid-life crisis for the US. imagine American Beauty, but with 100M people channeling Frank Fitts. that is where we are.
my opinion, of course. i am not a sociologist. i just read a lot of studies about Americans.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 4, 2022 22:25:14 GMT -5
You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. there is no evidence that liberals are shooting up schools, whatsoever. most of these kids come from very conservative backgrounds, and hate liberals. if you think otherwise, you are going to have to bring proof. i am not blasting you for expecting people to work. i am not blasting you for voicing your opinion. i am not blasting you for expecting people to pay off their student loans. but keep in mind, that my parents went to school FOR FREE. that was a COLLEGE EDUCATION. my mom got a MS from Berkeley. FOR FREE. that was paid for by a much more liberal system than we live in today. and there were far fewer mass shootings back then. i find the rest of your post contradictory. on the one hand, you are agreeing that the hardships people endure today are much worse than they were half a century go. but the things that have engendered those hardships are the cutbacks in social programs. in other words, it was the LOSS of liberal economics that created the hardships. liberals are not to blame for unraveling policies that they created and support. for the record, i disagree that economic hardships are fundamentally the problem. i was simply pointing out that liberal economic and social policies have been systematically undermined or destroyed since 1973. political and social conservatism has been on the rise my entire adult life. that is a fact. there is absolutely no question about it. it is bourne out in facts, and in history. i won't burden this board by presenting it when it is as plain as day. I would bet that quite a few also come from the incel community, which is in itself a twisted version of male supremacist beliefs. Again, not at all a liberal belief system.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 22:27:14 GMT -5
there is no evidence that liberals are shooting up schools, whatsoever. most of these kids come from very conservative backgrounds, and hate liberals. if you think otherwise, you are going to have to bring proof. i am not blasting you for expecting people to work. i am not blasting you for voicing your opinion. i am not blasting you for expecting people to pay off their student loans. but keep in mind, that my parents went to school FOR FREE. that was a COLLEGE EDUCATION. my mom got a MS from Berkeley. FOR FREE. that was paid for by a much more liberal system than we live in today. and there were far fewer mass shootings back then. i find the rest of your post contradictory. on the one hand, you are agreeing that the hardships people endure today are much worse than they were half a century go. but the things that have engendered those hardships are the cutbacks in social programs. in other words, it was the LOSS of liberal economics that created the hardships. liberals are not to blame for unraveling policies that they created and support. for the record, i disagree that economic hardships are fundamentally the problem. i was simply pointing out that liberal economic and social policies have been systematically undermined or destroyed since 1973. political and social conservatism has been on the rise my entire adult life. that is a fact. there is absolutely no question about it. it is bourne out in facts, and in history. i won't burden this board by presenting it when it is as plain as day. I would bet that quite a few also come from the incel community, which is in itself a twisted version of male supremacist beliefs. Again, not at all a liberal belief system. they hate liberals, because liberals support immigration, diversity, gay rights, and all kinds of things that these lost, sick young men find threatening. so, they take revenge by exerting power in a way that they absolutely, legally can. it actually makes rock solid sense, if you can follow the logic of it.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 4, 2022 22:31:41 GMT -5
I would bet that quite a few also come from the incel community, which is in itself a twisted version of male supremacist beliefs. Again, not at all a liberal belief system. they hate liberals, because liberals support immigration, diversity, gay rights, and all kinds of things that these lost, sick young men find threatening. so, they take revenge by exerting power in a way that they absolutely, legally can. it actually makes rock solid sense, if you can follow the logic of it. Liberals also support the equality of women, and don't expect women to provide sex just because the man wants them to. Nor do they hate and punish the women who quite justifiably refuse. Also, legally? Not sure what that refers to in the context of shooting up schools, unless you are going back to the larger picture of the degradation of social standards.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 22:33:32 GMT -5
by the way, i think that liberals are partially to blame for the problem. but not because they turned America into a bunch of free loading pussies. as i said, that oversimplifies things.
if you understand the history of neo-conservatism- the WHY behind that movement- then you will understand precisely WHY i place the blame partially on liberals, and to what degree.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 22:35:23 GMT -5
they hate liberals, because liberals support immigration, diversity, gay rights, and all kinds of things that these lost, sick young men find threatening. so, they take revenge by exerting power in a way that they absolutely, legally can. it actually makes rock solid sense, if you can follow the logic of it. Liberals also support the equality of women, and don't expect women to provide sex just because the man wants them to. Nor do they hate and punish the women who quite justifiably refuse. they also want drugs decriminalized. and are soft on public nudity. and think dildoes and porn are ok, so long as they are not exploitative. a billion things that drive social conservatives absolutely nuts. again, i am not sure ANY of that has to do with our problems.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 4, 2022 22:45:18 GMT -5
by the way, i think that liberals are partially to blame for the problem. but not because they turned America into a bunch of free loading pussies. as i said, that oversimplifies things. if you understand the history of neo-conservatism- the WHY behind that movement- then you will understand precisely WHY i place the blame partially on liberals, and to what degree. Backlash against the New Left?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 4, 2022 22:46:11 GMT -5
Kids are growing up feeling entitled. for the record, i think this is a small part of it. but it makes a large argument too small for my tastes. i think that MOST of the problem is a sense of "loss of status". there are a lot of elements to that, all of which are interconnected. another piece of it is a "loss of purpose". it is sort of a mid-life crisis for the US. imagine American Beauty, but with 100M people channeling Frank Fitts. that is where we are. my opinion, of course. i am not a sociologist. i just read a lot of studies about Americans. Some how I don't see the Las Vegas shooter (60 murdered) or the Orlando nightclub shooter (49 murdered) felt any sense of entitlemnt.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2022 22:56:20 GMT -5
by the way, i think that liberals are partially to blame for the problem. but not because they turned America into a bunch of free loading pussies. as i said, that oversimplifies things. if you understand the history of neo-conservatism- the WHY behind that movement- then you will understand precisely WHY i place the blame partially on liberals, and to what degree. Backlash against the New Left? i am not sure i would put it that way, because it is more about the grand vision of society. it is not really policy based. the neocons were committed ideologues. and like most committed ideologues they won't let a little matter like the truth get in their way. and that sort of excessive, radical idealism is exceedingly dangerous, as WW2 clearly illustrated. have you seen the Power of Nightmares, TG? it covers this item REALLY well. this is just the first 12 mins, if you don't have time right now.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 5, 2022 1:59:01 GMT -5
The coddling and all the fairness crap that has been spewing out of dems and liberals mouth for the past 35 years are setting people off. They think where's mine, why can't I, why do I have to work etc. People used to be prideful to go to work now its a chore. There is nothing wrong with a company's CEO making 500 million a year and the janitor getting minimum wage. Yet the company's are villified for not being fair. Heaven forbid if a kid has to try out for a sports team instead of just signing up. The pandemic made it worse lets put FRONT LINE WORKERS on a pedastal call them supermen oh brother, lets all work from home now people whine because they are called back to work, ooh my kids my family life fucking christ sakes grow the fuck up. The more I think about it all the shooting lie on the liberals and dems feet.I understand. You want the kids who are disabled, the kids with Down Syndrome, the kids on the autism spectrum, the kids with endocrine disorders to be excluded. They should just sit on the sidelines and feel bad about themsleves. Who needs all that 'fairness crap"?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2022 2:51:53 GMT -5
touchy-feely-everybody-is-important-liberal-bullshit.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 5, 2022 3:07:46 GMT -5
touchy-feely-everybody-is-important-liberal-bullshit. What do you expect when people believe this - There is nothing wrong with a company's CEO making 500 million a year and the janitor getting minimum wage.I'm not sure there is anything right about it. The conservative elites have a different value system. Which might be partially why this is happening- Take, for example, a report published in 2017 by researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. The authors estimate that of the 265 million privately owned firearms in the US, about half are owned by 3% of the US adult population. And while about half of gun owners own one or two guns, 8% of gun owners own 10 or more -- a figure that amounts to about 40% of the total US gun stock, according to the report. Another finding that bears that out: National polls show that gun ownership has declined modestly since the 1970s, while FBI firearm background checks show that gun purchases are at record highs. What that suggests is that while the share of gun owners in the US is getting smaller overall, those who do own guns are buying more and more of them. www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/us/gun-ownership-numbers-us-cec/index.html
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 5, 2022 7:10:29 GMT -5
You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. there is no evidence that liberals are shooting up schools, whatsoever. most of these kids come from very conservative backgrounds, and hate liberals. if you think otherwise, you are going to have to bring proof. i am not blasting you for expecting people to work. i am not blasting you for voicing your opinion. i am not blasting you for expecting people to pay off their student loans. but keep in mind, that my parents went to school FOR FREE. that was a COLLEGE EDUCATION. my mom got a MS from Berkeley. FOR FREE. that was paid for by a much more liberal system than we live in today. and there were far fewer mass shootings back then. i find the rest of your post contradictory. on the one hand, you are agreeing that the hardships people endure today are much worse than they were half a century go. but the things that have engendered those hardships are the cutbacks in social programs. in other words, it was the LOSS of liberal economics that created the hardships. liberals are not to blame for unraveling policies that they created and support. for the record, i disagree that economic hardships are fundamentally the problem. i was simply pointing out that liberal economic and social policies have been systematically undermined or destroyed since 1973. political and social conservatism has been on the rise my entire adult life. that is a fact. there is absolutely no question about it. it is bourne out in facts, and in history. i won't burden this board by presenting it when it is as plain as day. Quoting so I can like this again.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 5, 2022 7:15:50 GMT -5
PS- thanks for reposting that. so the liberalism in question is "coddling" basically. we are not manly enough. we are a bunch of pussies. so, here is my next question: are we REALLY more of a bunch of pussies now than we were in 1973? RvW is gone. so is the better part of the VRA. income disparity is worse. more people are living below the poverty line than then. more people have zero dollars in wealth. the quality of our air and drinking water is down. housing is out of reach for more Americans. FMW in real terms has fallen 30%. Junior Colleges are no longer free. we have all KINDS of conservative reforms in taxes, schools, etc. it would be VERY difficult to argue that we are MORE liberal than we were in 1973. so, why did we not have MORE of a problem in 1973? did it really take 50 more years for conservatives to get pissed off enough to shoot up schools? i don't think that excuse makes sense. it HAS to be something else. what is it? You are actually proving my point. It was better 50 years ago for raising families. 1 paycheck paid the bills (i'm not bashing women for wanting a career or that women were treated as 2nd class citizens) but when a parent stayed home the home life was better. Kids actually had to tryout for a sport fast forward 50 years now sign a sheet of paper your kid is on a team. Kids are growing up feeling entitled. People don't even want to work anymore. If your kid spells their name correctly on a test lets give them 10pts to get a passing grade. They don't have to earn anything. I get blasted for expecting people to work for what they want. I get blasted for voicing my opinion on another thread that people should payoff their student loans before they make large purchases you know responsibility. You mentioned conservatives shooting up schools, probably crybaby liberals. Most of us started trying to have a conversation with you, but you aren't really here to do that. You're here to make sure you're heard from what I can tell. You have been just as belittling to others.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 5, 2022 7:25:27 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2022 7:45:17 GMT -5
When we end the life of someone like the Parkland shooter, we relieve them of any and all possibility of accepting and dealing with the horror they caused. It is a mercy I don't wish to extend them.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 5, 2022 8:54:56 GMT -5
The coddling and all the fairness crap that has been spewing out of dems and liberals mouth for the past 35 years are setting people off. They think where's mine, why can't I, why do I have to work etc. People used to be prideful to go to work now its a chore. There is nothing wrong with a company's CEO making 500 million a year and the janitor getting minimum wage. Yet the company's are villified for not being fair. Heaven forbid if a kid has to try out for a sports team instead of just signing up. The pandemic made it worse lets put FRONT LINE WORKERS on a pedastal call them supermen oh brother, lets all work from home now people whine because they are called back to work, ooh my kids my family life fucking christ sakes grow the fuck up. The more I think about it all the shooting lie on the liberals and dems feet.I understand. You want the kids who are disabled, the kids with Down Syndrome, the kids on the autism spectrum, the kids with endocrine disorders to be excluded. They should just sit on the sidelines and feel bad about themsleves. Who needs all that 'fairness crap"? I hate "sports" as we currently use the term. I like the idea of including everyone that wants to be involved, and encouraging the physical activity. I hate the competitive aspect of sports. It's divisive. It creates this false dichotomy of winner and loser, with corresponding positive/negative connotations. The drive to be ranked the winner encourages undesirable side effects - cheating, heckling, intimidation, etc. I'd much rather we encouraged non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration, instead. Ones that include rather than exclude/eliminate. Ones that create a team based on the members' diversity of skills/talents/viewpoints. This competitive sports model is everywhere in our culture - politics, job competition, college application process, school grades, reality tv like the Bachelor/Bachelorette or the Voice, the Emmys/Oscars/other awards shows, what's the top box office release this week, ... Ick, ick, ick! If there's one winner, everyone else is the loser. And we wonder why so many individuals are so unhappy with the status quo? Why they choose to do something so shocking as murdering dozens of children - to get attention, to be the "winner" at mass murderer?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2022 9:21:48 GMT -5
The coddling and all the fairness crap that has been spewing out of dems and liberals mouth for the past 35 years are setting people off. They think where's mine, why can't I, why do I have to work etc. People used to be prideful to go to work now its a chore. There is nothing wrong with a company's CEO making 500 million a year and the janitor getting minimum wage. Yet the company's are villified for not being fair. Heaven forbid if a kid has to try out for a sports team instead of just signing up. The pandemic made it worse lets put FRONT LINE WORKERS on a pedastal call them supermen oh brother, lets all work from home now people whine because they are called back to work, ooh my kids my family life fucking christ sakes grow the fuck up. The more I think about it all the shooting lie on the liberals and dems feet.I understand. You want the kids who are disabled, the kids with Down Syndrome, the kids on the autism spectrum, the kids with endocrine disorders to be excluded. They should just sit on the sidelines and feel bad about themsleves. Who needs all that 'fairness crap"? I hate "sports" as we currently use the term. I like the idea of including everyone that wants to be involved, and encouraging the physical activity. I hate the competitive aspect of sports. It's divisive. It creates this false dichotomy of winner and loser, with corresponding positive/negative connotations. The drive to be ranked the winner encourages undesirable side effects - cheating, heckling, intimidation, etc. I'd much rather we encouraged non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration, instead. Ones that include rather than exclude/eliminate. Ones that create a team based on the members' diversity of skills/talents/viewpoints. This competitive sports model is everywhere in our culture - politics, job competition, college application process, school grades, reality tv like the Bachelor/Bachelorette or the Voice, the Emmys/Oscars/other awards shows, what's the top box office release this week, ... Ick, ick, ick! If there's one winner, everyone else is the loser. And we wonder why so many individuals are so unhappy with the status quo? Why they choose to do something so shocking as murdering dozens of children - to get attention, to be the "winner" at mass murderer? I think it possible to have both. Back in the old days (1980's). I was living in Boise, Id. Sports Illustrated had a brief little clip that said Boise had 103% of its total population signed up for slow pitch softball teams, making it the unofficial capital of that sport. They explained that the 103% was a result of people belonging to multiple teams. I was one of those. I was on a college recreational co-ed team that was bragging rights competitive, a city league co-ed team in a division in which only about half the teams wore matching shirts and the outfielders sometimes had a beer, plus a men's team that played to win. It doesn't have to be either/or.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 5, 2022 10:04:35 GMT -5
If we could downplay the "winning" part I'd like sports better.
Most of my kids did XC and track, preferring XC over track. The XC coach really emphasized them tracking their personal improvement, keeping Personal Best stats for each of them. They would all cheer on even the slowest teammates. It was a great atmosphere.
At the same time, a rival school nearby always was at the top of league championships. The school was smaller, couldn't field all the sports teams, so didn't have a soccer team (and soccer is big here). Since soccer and XC are both fall sports, students have to pick one team to join, can't choose both. Essentially, soccer siphons off many athletes that would also be good runners. No-soccer-school had a competitive advantage because they had twice as many good runners in their XC "pool", pushing out less competitive runners.
One more anecdote: DS2 was convinced to join the swim team (winter sport between fall XC and spring track) by other XC teammates - to maintain conditioning. They encouraged him, even if he wasn't a great swimmer, for the conditioning. Turns out, there's an opposite group who are dedicated swimmers, and run XC/track to maintain conditioning, too. So, the more, the merrier! That's the attitude in sports that I appreciate - do it for fun, encourage others, be the best YOU can be, do it for fitness.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 5, 2022 11:21:48 GMT -5
We aren't competition people but I don't begrudge those teams when there are rec teams available.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 5, 2022 11:40:31 GMT -5
If we could downplay the "winning" part I'd like sports better. Most of my kids did XC and track, preferring XC over track. The XC coach really emphasized them tracking their personal improvement, keeping Personal Best stats for each of them. They would all cheer on even the slowest teammates. It was a great atmosphere.At the same time, a rival school nearby always was at the top of league championships. The school was smaller, couldn't field all the sports teams, so didn't have a soccer team (and soccer is big here). Since soccer and XC are both fall sports, students have to pick one team to join, can't choose both. Essentially, soccer siphons off many athletes that would also be good runners. No-soccer-school had a competitive advantage because they had twice as many good runners in their XC "pool", pushing out less competitive runners. One more anecdote: DS2 was convinced to join the swim team (winter sport between fall XC and spring track) by other XC teammates - to maintain conditioning. They encouraged him, even if he wasn't a great swimmer, for the conditioning. Turns out, there's an opposite group who are dedicated swimmers, and run XC/track to maintain conditioning, too. So, the more, the merrier! That's the attitude in sports that I appreciate - do it for fun, encourage others, be the best YOU can be, do it for fitness. This is why I liked swimming so much. I'm out there in my lane, and everyone has the same environment. My time matter not only to the team, but to me. Of course, I also enjoyed kicking someone's ass. I'm not perfect.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2022 13:08:05 GMT -5
If we could downplay the "winning" part I'd like sports better. Most of my kids did XC and track, preferring XC over track. The XC coach really emphasized them tracking their personal improvement, keeping Personal Best stats for each of them. They would all cheer on even the slowest teammates. It was a great atmosphere. At the same time, a rival school nearby always was at the top of league championships. The school was smaller, couldn't field all the sports teams, so didn't have a soccer team (and soccer is big here). Since soccer and XC are both fall sports, students have to pick one team to join, can't choose both. Essentially, soccer siphons off many athletes that would also be good runners. No-soccer-school had a competitive advantage because they had twice as many good runners in their XC "pool", pushing out less competitive runners. One more anecdote: DS2 was convinced to join the swim team (winter sport between fall XC and spring track) by other XC teammates - to maintain conditioning. They encouraged him, even if he wasn't a great swimmer, for the conditioning. Turns out, there's an opposite group who are dedicated swimmers, and run XC/track to maintain conditioning, too. So, the more, the merrier! That's the attitude in sports that I appreciate - do it for fun, encourage others, be the best YOU can be, do it for fitness. our tendency to compete for EVERYTHING, including political points on an ANONYMOUS BACKWATER DISCUSSION BOARD is a disease, imo. it is not only not helpful. it is destructive.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 5, 2022 13:42:48 GMT -5
My son is on the autism spectrum and was a very unhappy little kid. Skinny and uncoordinated, he never would have made any team he had to try out for. Poor little guy. In every picture I ever took of him, he looked like his dog just died. Hockey Quebec took everybody, and I've never seen him happier than when he was on the ice. He was like a different child.
Scgal would prefer if he didn't play.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 5, 2022 14:02:11 GMT -5
My son is on the autism spectrum and was a very unhappy little kid. Skinny and uncoordinated, he never would have made any team he had to try out for. Poor little guy. In every picture I ever took of him, he looked like his dog just died. Hockey Quebec took everybody, and I've never seen him happier than when he was on the ice. He was like a different child. Scgal would prefer it he didn't play.They act like this is a new thing too. Its not! When my sister played t-ball/softball in the 80's, they took everyone! When I was in Jr. high and high school in the 90's I joined so many teams....track, swimming, dance team, etc. and they took anyone as well. This inclusivity is not new....its been going on for at least 40 years (I'm 42). And I'm so happy for your son!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 5, 2022 14:34:10 GMT -5
I hate "sports" as we currently use the term. I like the idea of including everyone that wants to be involved, and encouraging the physical activity. I hate the competitive aspect of sports. It's divisive. It creates this false dichotomy of winner and loser, with corresponding positive/negative connotations. The drive to be ranked the winner encourages undesirable side effects - cheating, heckling, intimidation, etc. I'd much rather we encouraged non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration, instead. Ones that include rather than exclude/eliminate. Ones that create a team based on the members' diversity of skills/talents/viewpoints.This competitive sports model is everywhere in our culture - politics, job competition, college application process, school grades, reality tv like the Bachelor/Bachelorette or the Voice, the Emmys/Oscars/other awards shows, what's the top box office release this week... I agree with you - I'm more of a collaborator/lets make a difference/achieve something as a group than a competative. I want to do the best I can do - I don't get a "warm fuzzy" from doing something better than someone else. There are more non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration - but the kids who do those things are nerds or geeks or there's the hint of gayness to them... band, theater, debate, even when I was in the "Horseback riding club" in HS (it was an urban school... horse were a 50 minute drive and the majority of us had no experience in a barn or with an animal that was not a "house pet") there was some collaboration and since we were involved with the rest of the school - we had to do some planning - raise money, create a presence/float/something for 2 yearly parades (on for homecoming the other for a community parade), come up with a way to identify ourselves and our club (t-shirts the easiest). The thing was - if you weren't on a sports team - you didn't count. If you were on a sports team you only sort of counted... you had to be one of the top athletes to actually "count" - no one cared or knew about any of the other clubs. The sportsball stadium would be packed for football games - hardly anyone went to the concerts put on by the school's bands, orchestra, choir. hardly anyone showed up for the 2 yearly staged productions (sometimes musicals sometimes not). If you don't do a 'sports' you aren't a "team player" and you aren't building character (being a good loser or a good winner) and you aren't learning "leadership" skills. From what I can tell the only thing most "sports" teach the majority of players - is to "do what you are told. Know your place and stay in it." FWIW: I think most some of the basis for my relatives anger at "liberals" and "democrats" and currently the LGBTQ+ and transgendered population and still with brown people - is that all of them do not know their place and aren't willing to stay in it. A relative seems to think the LGBTQ+ and transgendered people were doing just fine - before all these demands for rights and needing to be the center of attention and forcing other people to "be like them".... my relative's words not mine... and I was like "What are you talking about?" and then it hit me - my relative was probably ok with LGBTQ+ and transgendered people as long as they "knew their place" which means they remain outsiders and second class (or third class citizens) and if they get beat up or treated poorly by the laws - well, they could always just be "normal" and then they wouldn't have those problems. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this equates to the LGBTQ/transgendered NOT being team players, They know their place - they are just refusing to "play that position".
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 5, 2022 15:03:31 GMT -5
There are more non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration - ... theater, I only have my high school experiences from the early 70's but it was as difficult to get a role in a production as a starting position on any of the sports teams and there was no second string. We collaborated once cast but so did the jocks.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 5, 2022 15:33:57 GMT -5
I hate "sports" as we currently use the term. I like the idea of including everyone that wants to be involved, and encouraging the physical activity. I hate the competitive aspect of sports. It's divisive. It creates this false dichotomy of winner and loser, with corresponding positive/negative connotations. The drive to be ranked the winner encourages undesirable side effects - cheating, heckling, intimidation, etc. I'd much rather we encouraged non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration, instead. Ones that include rather than exclude/eliminate. Ones that create a team based on the members' diversity of skills/talents/viewpoints.This competitive sports model is everywhere in our culture - politics, job competition, college application process, school grades, reality tv like the Bachelor/Bachelorette or the Voice, the Emmys/Oscars/other awards shows, what's the top box office release this week... I agree with you - I'm more of a collaborator/lets make a difference/achieve something as a group than a competative. I want to do the best I can do - I don't get a "warm fuzzy" from doing something better than someone else. There are more non-competitive activities that encourage collaboration - but the kids who do those things are nerds or geeks or there's the hint of gayness to them... band, theater, debate, even when I was in the "Horseback riding club" in HS (it was an urban school... horse were a 50 minute drive and the majority of us had no experience in a barn or with an animal that was not a "house pet") there was some collaboration and since we were involved with the rest of the school - we had to do some planning - raise money, create a presence/float/something for 2 yearly parades (on for homecoming the other for a community parade), come up with a way to identify ourselves and our club (t-shirts the easiest). The thing was - if you weren't on a sports team - you didn't count. If you were on a sports team you only sort of counted... you had to be one of the top athletes to actually "count" - no one cared or knew about any of the other clubs. The sportsball stadium would be packed for football games - hardly anyone went to the concerts put on by the school's bands, orchestra, choir. hardly anyone showed up for the 2 yearly staged productions (sometimes musicals sometimes not). If you don't do a 'sports' you aren't a "team player" and you aren't building character (being a good loser or a good winner) and you aren't learning "leadership" skills. From what I can tell the only thing most "sports" teach the majority of players - is to "do what you are told. Know your place and stay in it." FWIW: I think most some of the basis for my relatives anger at "liberals" and "democrats" and currently the LGBTQ+ and transgendered population and still with brown people - is that all of them do not know their place and aren't willing to stay in it. A relative seems to think the LGBTQ+ and transgendered people were doing just fine - before all these demands for rights and needing to be the center of attention and forcing other people to "be like them".... my relative's words not mine... and I was like "What are you talking about?" and then it hit me - my relative was probably ok with LGBTQ+ and transgendered people as long as they "knew their place" which means they remain outsiders and second class (or third class citizens) and if they get beat up or treated poorly by the laws - well, they could always just be "normal" and then they wouldn't have those problems. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this equates to the LGBTQ/transgendered NOT being team players, They know their place - they are just refusing to "play that position". Definitely agree on your last paragraph.
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