what are you doing right now?

[giramomma]

It's interesting watching how things are progressing from the situation where I spent 4 hours documenting at work.

My documentation matches another person's explanation of the situation.

My supervisor doesn't believe it's accurate.

My supervisor is married to their truth, even if it isn't what happened.

My supervisor is not even 40 yet.

[Pink Cashmere]

Dec 29, 2022 23:15:15 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Pink.

The truth is a very subjective thing.

I get how you feel. My mom feels the same way.

Yet, I've also heard her directly lie to others.

She told folks that she was at the hospital every day for dad's last three weeks of life.

She wasn't.

My mom had an emotional need to look like the doting, loving, caring wife until the end.

No one would have faulted my mom for taking the break she needed.

So. What would confronting Mister's Dad accomplish? I'm telling you, probably nothing.

I don't correct my mom when she's wrong. It will do no good if I'm playing the long game. Short game, all it's going to do is cause a fight.

Can you separate that this isn't about you? It's likely about his dad?

I don’t think that’s always true. Sometimes the truth is whether you did or did not do a specific thing, and that’s all there is to it. No gray areas, either you did it or you didn’t. Either you were here or you were there, unless you have some capabilities that us mere humans don’t have, and you can be in 2 places at the same time. Kind of like how you are either pregnant or you aren’t. There is no gray area to go in circles about. 

I have no intentions of confronting Mister’s Dad about lying to me. I am really just shocked that he lied about that, when I didn’t even ask him about it, and trying to figure out how to move forward, knowing how I feel about liars. 

If it was my Mom, I would just confront her. She’s a known liar, and I’ve never had a problem calling her out on her lies, for whatever good it did (mostly none lol).

Can you separate that this isn't about you? It's likely about his dad?

It’s been about his Dad since he came to our home. I’m okay with that. But there are some things I’ve looked sideways at, before then, with the need to constantly eat and snack, but I realized years ago, before we bought this house, that food is a really big deal for Mister’s family and his children, so okay. Besides actually eating, they also talk about food a lot, which was something different for me too, but okay.

It can still be about his Dad, with no problems. But can we not tell his Dad to not make up stuff to lie to me about? Is that too much? And I’m asking honestly because I do want to help him too, but I’m not going to do it in the same way if I feel like he keeps trying to blow smoke up my ass. And that may be a flaw with me, and if it is I will own it. And if I just have to deal with him lying to me and trying to blow smoke up my ass, I can do that, it just won’t be as genteel as it could be otherwise.

[Pink Cashmere]

Dec 29, 2022 23:24:17 GMT -5 azucena said:

Think of it as him reverting to young kid status like in other aspects of aging. So even if he's lying, it's likely not in a disrespectful and more like he's trying not to get in more trouble.

Or just as likely he's mixed up his days and facts or is trying to keep the peace.

I get all of that. Mister leaves him a note every morning telling him what day and date it is, and what he needs to do.

He and Mister handle his meds, I have nothing to do with that.

Because his lies were started with how he feels so much better, I think he was trying to convince me that he is indeed doing so much better that he got up and took his meds on his own, on time, without Mister’s help. Except he didn’t. 

Maybe he thinks that if he can convince me he’s okay, I will help him convince Mister. But if that’s his game plan, he’s going about it the wrong way lol.

[countrygirl2]

I doubt he is lying Pink. If he is like MIL was, he thinks he is telling the truth. And they know things are not going well, so they try to make it look good. Most people understand if their mental issues get bad enough they will have to go elsewhere. In the earlier stages I think they realize at times something is wrong so try to cover it up. That's what MIL and her sister did. In their minds they were fine and it was US trying to make them look bad.  Don't be so sure he is lying. Dementia is a horrible thing and people try to cover it up, believe me.

Bed time and past, have to get DD to eye glass place tomorrow, they are closing down after tomorrow so want to get there before noon. Also need to call in meds for my pre op.

We need to pick up a few groceries also. Should have been in bed 2 hours ago.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 29, 2022 23:57:21 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Dec 29, 2022 23:15:15 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Pink.

The truth is a very subjective thing.

I get how you feel. My mom feels the same way.

Yet, I've also heard her directly lie to others.

She told folks that she was at the hospital every day for dad's last three weeks of life.

She wasn't.

My mom had an emotional need to look like the doting, loving, caring wife until the end.

No one would have faulted my mom for taking the break she needed.

So. What would confronting Mister's Dad accomplish? I'm telling you, probably nothing.

I don't correct my mom when she's wrong. It will do no good if I'm playing the long game. Short game, all it's going to do is cause a fight.

Can you separate that this isn't about you? It's likely about his dad?

I don’t think that’s always true. Sometimes the truth is whether you did or did not do a specific thing, and that’s all there is to it. No gray areas, either you did it or you didn’t. Either you were here or you were there, unless you have some capabilities that us mere humans don’t have, and you can be in 2 places at the same time. Kind of like how you are either pregnant or you aren’t. There is no gray area to go in circles about. 

I have no intentions of confronting Mister’s Dad about lying to me. I am really just shocked that he lied about that, when I didn’t even ask him about it, and trying to figure out how to move forward, knowing how I feel about liars. 

If it was my Mom, I would just confront her. She’s a known liar, and I’ve never had a problem calling her out on her lies, for whatever good it did (mostly none lol).

Can you separate that this isn't about you? It's likely about his dad?

It’s been about his Dad since he came to our home. I’m okay with that. But there are some things I’ve looked sideways at, before then, with the need to constantly eat and snack, but I realized years ago, before we bought this house, that food is a really big deal for Mister’s family and his children, so okay. Besides actually eating, they also talk about food a lot, which was something different for me too, but okay.

It can still be about his Dad, with no problems. But can we not tell his Dad to not make up stuff to lie to me about? Is that too much? And I’m asking honestly because I do want to help him too, but I’m not going to do it in the same way if I feel like he keeps trying to blow smoke up my ass. And that may be a flaw with me, and if it is I will own it. And if I just have to deal with him lying to me and trying to blow smoke up my ass, I can do that, it just won’t be as genteel as it could be otherwise.

Pink, it could be confabulation.  It may signify the beginnings  of Alzheimer's disease or dementia. Many people won't admit that their memory is slipping, so their brains create 'memories' to fill in the blanks. It's entirely possible that he may not know he's lying.

www.healthline.com/health/confabulation

[bean29]

So, just going to bed. Getting up in 2 1/2 hours to walk dogs then DH will run them to MIL’s. DD is picking us up at 5. She works at the airport, starts at 6. Our flight is at 6:45. Takes 10-15 mins to get there.

[toomuchreality]

Dec 30, 2022 2:14:09 GMT -5 bean29 said:

So, just going to bed. Getting up in 2 1/2 hours to walk dogs then DH will run them to MIL’s. DD is picking us up at 5. She works at the airport, starts at 6. Our flight is at 6:45. Takes 10-15 mins to get there.

Have a good trip!

[daisylu]

Dec 29, 2022 21:27:04 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I haven't caught up much, but wanted to share this. I forget who took my humidifier rec, maybe daisy? sorry.. but I want to say after two nights of sleeping mostly downstairs, I filled my humidifier while waiting on dinner, and turned it on low with the bedroom door almost closed. I just went in to make up my bed with clean sheets, and the airspace was magically glorious <cue the angels singing>. I refilled the water canister, and am seriously thinking about shutting the pups in my bedroom tonight so I can close the door entirely.

Yup, we went the warm mist humidifier on your rec and it has been a game changer. I rarely wake up coughing my fool head off anymore and even DH's chronic sinuses have given him a break!

[Opti]

Dec 30, 2022 0:11:29 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Dec 29, 2022 23:24:17 GMT -5 azucena said:

Think of it as him reverting to young kid status like in other aspects of aging. So even if he's lying, it's likely not in a disrespectful and more like he's trying not to get in more trouble.

Or just as likely he's mixed up his days and facts or is trying to keep the peace.

I get all of that. Mister leaves him a note every morning telling him what day and date it is, and what he needs to do.

He and Mister handle his meds, I have nothing to do with that.

Because his lies were started with how he feels so much better, I think he was trying to convince me that he is indeed doing so much better that he got up and took his meds on his own, on time, without Mister’s help. Except he didn’t. 

Maybe he thinks that if he can convince me he’s okay, I will help him convince Mister. But if that’s his game plan, he’s going about it the wrong way lol.

Mister's dad is not a fully functioning adult as you know from the bolded. Sounds like his wife has managed him for a while including providing snacks instead of him just getting them from the fridge or whatever. I did not like lying or telling untruths but working at the hybrid facility, especially those with dementia, made me get over that. If he lies to you, you are not the only one. Odds are he does it with everyone for various reasons. Most of which probably start with a diminished mental capacity.

It really doesn't matter if he says that to try to convince himself he's OK or what, the point is to not take it personally nor think he has some master plan to snow you and only you. He's in your house because he can't take care of himself. Dementia is a very cruel thing, and it takes away logic and control in non-obvious ways in the beginning. Correcting him and pointing out he needed to be prompted to take his medication won't change how he acts going forward. He is probably the way he is because he is no longer the master of his thoughts or his feelings. Try to feel compassion for his lack of ability instead of thinking what he says has much or even anything to do with you personally.

[finnime]

Good morning, illustrious invisipeeps of Y Ma'am, inviting us to share your world. Welcome to Friday, two days before the new year. I think 2022 has exacted enough pain for enough of you that it can leave now and slam the door behind it. I hope your day today is pain free and allows you time and space for stretching and calming.

It's getting unseasonably warm here today and tomorrow; in the 50's for a high.

Yesterday DH and I went out for lunch at a restaurant overlooking the rotating bridge. Then we stopped at a park overlooking the entry to the harbor. I took this picture of the skyline of our little town.

The brick building with copper towers is the town hall. The brick building to its right is the Congregational church. The gray tower to its left is the Unitarian church. The white spire at the far left is from the Catholic diocesan retirement home for nuns. THe town hall is blocking sight of the magnificent library.

[finnime]

Pink Cashmere, I agree with the other invisipeeps, Mister's dad isn't lying in the responsible, knows what he's doing, sense. He is trying to make the world he is in ok and for you and Mister to think all is well. Because he doesn't know, really.

My grandmother had Alzheimers. In the earlier years of it she, who would never dream of stealing or lying or being inappropriate in any way, stole flatware and salt and pepper from restaurants and stoutly denied wearing my grandfather's underwear (which infuriated him).

She took my diamond engagement ring from the bureau in my room at my parents' house where we all were staying and put it on. I noticed and told my mother, who sat with grandma and helped take it off again, saying I think this is finnime's ring. No, said grandma, it's mine and I want to wear it. My grandmother was a lovely, classy woman who wouldn't dream of speaking a mistruth or hurting anyone or anything. She would be horrified at herself were she in her right mind. Before she got to that point I sometimes noticed she would sort of startle at a family gathering and look nervously around. I understood that she had just 'come to' and realized she didn't know what was going on.

Don't regard Mister's dad crazy. And don't accept what he says. He's trying to make a world that works for him, too. And he's scared.

[daisylu]

I'm hoping I can get the small truck out of the driveway to get some groceries today, or else I will have to go out tomorrow - and I have no intention of leaving my house on the last day of 2022.

Worried about DH. He doesn't let a lot of stuff get to him, but he is a stickler on finances and we've been bleeding money lately with home and vehicle repairs. Couple that with he HATES his job lately and just got over the flu and other viruses that kept him down for over 6 weeks and he is in a bad place. This morning he said "I don't even want to get out of bed, and I've felt like this for a while". I asked if this was his way of saying he needs help, but he blew it off as having been sick for so long and his work issues. He says it's just a lack of motivation, but I'm not so sure.

[bean29]

Boarded for DFW. I overslept. Did not set my phone alarm. Asked Alexa to set alarm. Must have slept through it. Gotta go to airplane mode.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Pondering the irony that my boss pulled so many strings so I could burn sick time the last week of the year and I've been sick the entire time!

[giramomma]

Dec 30, 2022 8:15:26 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Pondering the irony that my boss pulled so many strings so I could burn sick time the last week of the year and I've been sick the entire time!

Hugs.

[taz157]

Dec 30, 2022 8:15:26 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Pondering the irony that my boss pulled so many strings so I could burn sick time the last week of the year and I've been sick the entire time!

I’m on PTO this week, DD1 doesn’t have school and DD2’s daycare is closed this week. We didn’t have any set plans to do anything. Guess who gets Covid? All of us (assuming that DD2 has it). Cancelled our NYE plans too. This really bites!

[giramomma]

Yeah. DS has been stuck in his room sick. We send him back today.

[finnime]

Back from the beach where the sunrise was beautiful, all in reds and pinks.

I'm kind of anxious. A couple of dozen of my books have sold but there are no reviews at all. Do people dislike it? Or is it just no one is writing anything? Trying to keep positive. It's probably silly.

[chiver78]

the sun was warm and cozy, coming through my bedroom window this morning! I'm looking forward to getting out on the canal a little later with the pups. I'm taking care of a few things here online first, and I need to make a Walmart run for a few things. the temperature indicator in the lower corner of the news broadcast is showing that it's 47 degrees in Boston. that's nutty for December 30th in New England. 

gentle hugs to those of you that need 'em, and tissues, hot tea, and anything else to help y'all feel better. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 29, 2022 23:06:43 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

So now, I have a whole ‘nother issue. I bet you all are surprised, NOT. LOL!

Mister’s Dad told me today how he is doing so much better and he took his medicine today on his own, without Mister reminding him to take it. 

But a few minutes ago, Mister was talking about how he called his Dad at 9:30 this morning to wake him up so he could go take his medicine, the medicine he was supposed to have taken at 8:00, that Dad told me he’d taken with no prompting, on time.

The outdoor camera that’s been in the house to charge, and Mister used to keep an eye on Boy while we were at work, is now in the kitchen so Mister can keep an eye on his Dad and try to make sure he doesn’t burn the house down while we aren’t at home. 

His Dad did not go in the kitchen this morning (where his meds are) until after Mister kept calling him and he finally woke up and answered the phone around 9:30. 

One of my “flaws” is that I do not do well with people lying to me. I don’t really care what the circumstances are, or the reason, don’t lie to me. I know a lot of life includes gray areas, but I am kind of black and white when it comes to lying to me, even if that makes me unreasonable. And I especially don’t like it when people offer me lies about things I haven’t even asked about. Just, don’t. 

So Mister’s Dad clearly lied to me about taking his medicine on time this morning, and saying he did it with no prompting from Mister. I didn’t even ask him about that, he offered that lie to me, out of the blue.

I know how strongly I feel about being lied to, especially when I didn’t even ask a question in the first place, but I don’t even know what to do with that.

I need some advice, quick, fast, and in a hurry, because now I’m inclined to be looking at him crazy because that is a real thing for me, and something I can’t ignore ever happened, no matter who did it. I deal with it in different ways, depending on the relationship I have with that person, but I have no idea how to handle this one. All I do know is that I’m likely to be looking crazy at him from now on, and not see him the same way I have before. I don’t bother to try to hide what I’m thinking and how I feel at any given time, unless it’s advantageous for me, and I’ve been told a million times that my facial expressions say a lot, even when I don’t verbally say anything, even at my job. It’s true, and I don’t even try to have a poker face unless I’m in a situation where it will benefit me.

I don’t want to be mean to Mister’s Dad and be looking at him crazy. But I seriously have a problem with being lied to. Whether he took his medicine on time and without prompting may be a minor thing, but I still have an issue with him voluntarily telling me something different, especially when I didn’t even ask about it. I love “old” people, always have, and have a soft spot in my heart for them, but apparently they are not exempt from how I feel about people lying to me, or I wouldn’t even be typing this. 

When people have dementia, which I know he doesn't have a formal diagnosis but more and more it sounds like he needs one, they will often lie because they are scared.  It is terrifying to lose your mind and you start to question yourself.   He may have truly convinced himself he has been taking them on time.  Facing that he is not means that he is losing his mind and he can't do something as simple as remember to take a pill.  Admitting that to your grown son is terrifying.  It means accepting that you are becoming the child and your son has to become the parent.

It also invokes fear because they know where they are going to end up.  They know what this leads to.   While my grandmother's nursing home takes great care of her I can still understand and sympathize with the fact that it is the LAST place you want to be.

So while you don't like lying and I understand that you're going to have to change your thought process a bit on it.  Dementia patients often can't help that they lie because they don't remember what they said the first go around and they truly do not remember they haven't done what they said they did.

This is not an adult lying.  This is someone whose brain is misfiring and cannot put all the pieces together.   He's going to have lucid days yes where he has it all together, but he is also going to have times where he doesn't.  This isn't acting, this is the progression of the disease.

I think you both need to rearrange your thinking.  Instead of the meds being in the kitchen where not only does he need to remember to take them but that he also needs to go into the kitchen to take them the medication needs to be right next to his bed.  Set an alarm or get one of those dispensers that has one that goes off right next to him to remind him to take them.  I would also ask the doctor about what the window is for taking them does it have to be EXACTLY at 8am or is a half hour/hour not that big a deal.  There is usually some wiggle room on dosage so long as you do not miss one and even if you miss one usually it doesn't matter so long as you don't miss repeated doses.

If there is a window I'd program an alarm to go off at the exact time then again a half hour later and a half hour after that.  It may come to where you two need to physically hand him the medication to get him to remember to take it.  There is a reason the nursing home hands a little cup of pills and watches you take it.

I think it would really benefit both you and Mister to find a geriatric doctor to consult with who can walk you through how dementia works.  Leaving a note on the table telling his dad what to do may have worked when his dad was competent and it may still work some days.  It isn't going to work for much longer and that is not his dad's fault.  It is not  that his dad doesn't want it is that he CAN'T.

These are the same things my grandmother did and it was natural for us to think she was being a PITA at first because we had no frame of reference besides how she was when we were growing up.  It was later in hindsight the pieces started falling into place.  Yeah some of it was her own stubborn nature but we think now she was showing symptoms way before we noticed them.

For her the earliest sign was she wasn't cleaning.  She convinced herself it was because she had loosened up on her standards and she truly believed it.  We raised our eyebrows because you could have ate off this woman's toilet but we let it go.  Then it started getting worse, and worse and worse until the day we found her.  Hindsight is a fucking bitch but you don't equate not running the vacuum every day despite doing so for 70+ years to oh she has dementia.

[daisylu]

Proud to announce that our dining room table is clear of clutter and clean enough to eat off of. And bed linens are about to go in the dryer.

That might be all I accomplish today, and that's ok.

[busymom]

Dec 30, 2022 9:05:31 GMT -5 finnime said:

Back from the beach where the sunrise was beautiful, all in reds and pinks.

I'm kind of anxious. A couple of dozen of my books have sold but there are no reviews at all. Do people dislike it? Or is it just no one is writing anything? Trying to keep positive. It's probably silly.

     Don't worry.  It's still technically the holiday season.  They probably haven't had the time to write anything.  (I still have a few Christmas cards that I need to get in the mail, but haven't made the time to write, which is silly because I've already got out around 100 cards.)  Stay positive!  

[raeoflyte]

Pink - I will say when it comes to something little and never ending like taking pills I could easily lie about that on accident. It's muscle memory, but it's not very good in the sense that I can both remember taking them and remember "forgetting" them.

A couple weeks ago I called ds (from the road) to check my toothbrush and make sure it was wet. I was sure I had brushed my teeth...but couldn't remember doing it. (and for the record I had!)

But onto actual intentional lying.... dsis has some struggles. They're difficult and embarrassing and her business right up until she needs help. But the point is that sometimes frequently, mostly due to said issues, she lies. I spent a few years taking her lying as a personal affront. How and why lie to me? To me?!? Which did nothing for our relationship. Eventually I realized that it was her issues causing her to lie. Whether to protect herself or trying to protect me from the truth. Whether she even realized she was lying or she believed it was true in that moment. And the last one is where I think most of it comes from. It isn't about me and she really is trying her best.

I still get frustrated sometimes. I guess I fall into the trust but verify with her on a lot of things, which is a nicer way of saying I believe she believes what she says is true, but may not be current factually accurate.

Add in that misters dad is older, separated from his spouse/support system, living in a new place with completely different routines, and may have his own medical possibky includingthe beginningbof dementia, I think you need to separate your feelings about being lied to from pretty much anything he says. Trust what he says is his truth knowing it's a very limited possibility. But being upset about the lie doesn't help in the short or Long term.

[TheOtherMe]

Dec 29, 2022 22:25:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Dec 29, 2022 21:57:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Mom was one of those people who had to keep everything spotless at all times, even though she worked.

One of my major childhood memories is when my sister dropped a jar of pickles on the kitchen floor.  She didn't mean to do it but did she ever hear it.  We both went to our rooms when mom stopped yelling.

That made me rebel.  My sister keeps house like my mom.  

I don’t get upset over things like that, it was an accident. I would get upset though, if the mess was left in the floor for me to clean up. 

I drop and spill stuff myself. But I clean it up. That’s the important part, to me.

Sister was a little kid.  Mom cleaned it up.  It was on newly installed indoor/outdoor kitchen carpet.  

[raeoflyte]

Dec 30, 2022 9:50:38 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Dec 29, 2022 22:25:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I don’t get upset over things like that, it was an accident. I would get upset though, if the mess was left in the floor for me to clean up. 

I drop and spill stuff myself. But I clean it up. That’s the important part, to me.

Sister was a little kid.  Mom cleaned it up.  It was on newly installed indoor/outdoor kitchen carpet.  

Ahh- indoor/outdoor kitchen carpet!!! Our triplex had that when we moved in. Absolutely awful.

[raeoflyte]

1 more day of work and I'm free for a week. So many things to do. So little time.

[giramomma]

Not that we had *that* much snow. But, it is mostly gone.

It will be all gone in a week.

I am so perplexed.

[TheOtherMe]

Any list of reminders did not help my dad with dementia.  He didn't remember to look at the damn list.  

People with dementia do not think like you or me.  Their brain no longer works the way it used to.  

It's not their fault but it's very hard for the caregiver to not get frustrated.  The frustration made me mad at myself.

Dad never got mean but many of my aunts and uncles did.  Two of their parents swore like sailors from dementia.  Two women who did not swear before dementia took their mind and filter.  

It's heartbreaking to watch.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

An interesting thing I read about dementia is that as far as your brain knows it IS functioning normally.  It reroutes itself and creates shortcuts and fills in blanks without "you" even being aware that is doing it.

So when people with dementia "lie" they aren't actually lying like I would be.  They truly believe that this is their reality.   To those of us functioning normally it looks like they are being manipulative but they aren't.   It's how they are trying to make sense of the world and what is going on with them.

It's why I make hmming noises when grandma talks about going home.   I know somewhere in there she knows she's not because she has commented to me about it when she is lucid.  What is the point of me freaking her out constantly reminding her?  Who does that make feel better?  I finally got my dad in the habit of just making soothing noises once I explained to him she is not in denial exactly this is the narrative her brain has created because facing the reality of it is far far worse.

It doesn't hurt anything to tell a comforting lie to her because she's not going to remember we lied to her.

I'm not going to lie and say I don't get frustrated especially when she got nasty with me thanks to the damn nurse reminding her she lived at the nursing home and her house had to be sold but I recognize that she cannot help it.  She truly doesn't understand and it is terrifying to realize you are stuck in that room now till you die.

But that doesn't mean my feelings weren't hurt.   A benefit of her being in the home is it is easy for me to take a time out.   It's not so easy if you are living with them.  I strongly encourage calling your local Center of Aging.  Not only can they connect you with resources to better understand what is going on they can connect you with resources that will either come to your home or you can take him too that will help you guys navigate it all and give you some respite.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Since we are discussing old people I have news.  My grandma's house has closed and the checks are available for pick up.

So that's one less headache in my life.