MIL money problem

[azucena]

This is going to be long, and I already know what I should do but I'd still appreciate insights.

Yesterday I got a 4.5% raise bringing my salary to $185k and a bonus of $34k of which I expect to net $22k.  Biggest bonus ever because I had a high performing year and our company did well despite paying way too many covid claims. Rough numbers showed it would have been $45k in a regular claims year.  Anyway, I have it split roughly in fourths - savings, home improvements, annual bills, and 2023 vacations.  Proudly showed the numbers to DH when he got home from work because I busted my butt all year.

A couple hours later, he springs on me that his mom (two hours from us) is going to move closer to his sister (one hour from us) so his sister can help her more.  I don't know how long they've been planning this or how long he's known, but I'm disgusted and hurt by his timing.  He knows their money decisions drive me crazy, so I've asked not hear about them.  MIL is blind and has always been on disability, and I think she's also drawing soc sec even though she's not quite 65 yet.  Her current apartment is rent subsidized and costs her $400/month.  She has a great friend support system in a large building.  SIL's town doesn't have those type of rentals, so new apartment is $600/month -> $200 outside of MIL's budget.  The request is for us to subsidize the $200/m rent...indefinitely.  And whatever we don't pick up, SIL thinks she is going to cover, so she feels like she's not asking too much.

SIL has a GED, has waitressed in the past, and currently cobbles together income off the books by selling things on ebay and cleaning a couple of houses.  She also has some deal where she cleans MILs apartment and helps her a couple of times a week and gets paid by the state due to MILs disability.  This is SILs highest paying "job", and they cheat the system all the time by logging SILs time through the app when she isn't even there.  SIL has a 15 yo son and a 5 yo daughter - not sure about child support.  She's currently homeschooling both which is a terrible idea and also limits her work time.

SIL just got her annual snowflake money from Uncle Sam to the tune of $13k tax "refund", so she's feeling flush with cash making $200/month seem like nothing.  Every year, I watch her squander it on a big trip or some big ticket item.  And then she will have car trouble a few months later and not be able to fix it.  In the early years, I tried to coach her because she's really been taught nothing about money, but she never listened.

DH and I have always been on the same page so far about limiting our help to either of them.  When SIL was leaving her ex and a bad situation, she almost got evicted.  We paid $400 of her rent with the understanding that it was a loan and if she didn't pay it back, she'd never see another dime.  She cut us a check at tax time.  We've anonymously paid for MILs hearing aids and dentures - she took out those crazy medical care credit cards and made payments on them for a few months, and we snuck in and paid directly and told the offices to say they found grant money.

We've had clear conversations about not supporting them.  We would never let either of them be homeless, but we won't subsidize their poor choices.  MIL doesn't need to move, it's just more convenient esp now with higher gas prices.  And if she wanted to move, they should consider moving in together to pool rent money, but that's probably a recipe for disaster.

To make matters worse, DH and I have been in a rocky relationship place for several months.  He's back to gaming online every night, all of our conversations revolve around the kids, and both of us gripe at each other too much.  We're taking a spring break trip to the gulf next week and staying in the nicest condo we've ever rented and have invited my mom and aunt to join us.  He gets along with both and approved it, but I'm wondering if he's resentful.  We've gone on family reunion trips with his family and even he will tell you, they're not fun travelers.  Last night, he threw out, if it was your mom, you'd help her.  Low blow, but he's right.  It's likely I would help her, but it's also unlikely to be needed. 

A few weeks ago, I decided that I'd anonymously sponsor my niece to go to a $500 sleepaway camp with my daughter (both 13) from my bonus.  Niece needs the experience and the two girls will have a great time.  The camp has been told to have them do the fin aid paperwork but I'll cover it.  DH is irritated because my sister and her husband could likely swing it but won't adjust their budget.  Someone paid for me to go to camp, so I feel like I'm just paying it forward and was delighted to do it but now it feels like one more argument he can use which ruins it.

I didn't let him talk much last night because I was so caught off guard and was trying to be mature and not say something nasty.  He did mention that if I wouldn't help, he could just choose to from his 'allowance' which is $300/month that we spin off into an account that I don't monitor.  I know it's going to board games, DnD, and fast food.  I don't think that's the right solution, but am not sure I want a huge blow up argument over it.  He also has four 3d printers that he bought, was really into, actually kicked off a few thousand in profits, and now sit idle.  I could suggest that he fire them up to support her.

Ultimately, I know the right choice is to safeguard our money for our immediate family.  We have done a good job building up retirement savings, but we've neglected college that's fast approaching.  And even handing out $1000 one time is a slippery slope.

I hate that he put me in this situation where now I'm crying over my bonus and feeling selfish.  Plus, I actually had plans to surprise him with an Egg smoker that now seems frivolous.  I was so excited yesterday thinking of giving it to him as he loves to bug the neighbor about once a month when he supplies meat for the neighbor to smoke for both our families.

Ugh, thanks for reading if you made it this far.

[haapai]

You already know what you should do.  You also know that within a few years, your SIL will be living with your MIL.  So there is another request for subsidy coming and that one will be even more difficult. 

ETA:  That was probably a bit too concise.  So here is the thinking behind it.  What your SIL is doing is financial madness.  You have the ability to look up the maximum tax credits for the EITC and child tax credits and see what a large portion of her income is coming from them.  You probably have the numbers-fu to calculate her declared income with a fair amount of precision too, so you are in an excellent position to calculate the looming shortfall when the kids cannot be claimed. 

Moving a blind individual out of subsidized housing with a good support network and into a place that is more expensive and lacking a support network is madness.  It only makes sense if you are trying to use the parent. 

[Lizard Queen]

1 3d printer is a hobby, 4 is a business. Tell him to fire them up, and he can help them with the money he makes from that.

Or, refuse to pay anything but the reimbursement rate for gas for the trips your SIL takes to care for MIL. Surely that would be less than $200. The apartment is a dumb move. What's going to keep rent from increasing?

[minnesotapaintlady]

Does your husband make anything?  I know all income should be considered "family income", but maybe it wouldn't make you so upset if it was coming from his paycheck?  I personally think it's crazy to help her too, but...mom.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

He did mention that if I wouldn't help, he could just choose to from his 'allowance' which is $300/month that we spin off into an account that I don't monitor. I know it's going to board games, DnD, and fast food. I don't think that's the right solution, but am not sure I want a huge blow up argument over it. He also has four 3d printers that he bought, was really into, actually kicked off a few thousand in profits, and now sit idle. I could suggest that he fire them up to support her.



Okay take him up on it.  A man who has a $300 a month allowance and somehow has managed to buy four 3D printers can support mommy off his own dime.

I'm going to say HELL NO on supporting them from family income.  It's only a matter of time before your SIL cannot cover "her" share and you will be paying that too indefinitely.  You are NOT responsible for either of their shitty life decisions.  Just because they are his blood doesn't mean they are entitled to your money.

I consider the sleep away camp different.  That was a one time gift.  Your siblings are not expecting that you pay for camp for your niece indefinitely.  They do not have a history of poor life choices that lead you to expect that this is going to end up being so much more than what they are proposing.

Giving a gift is NOT the same as paying someone's living expenses for them.   I am sorry that your husband has turned that into a weapon against you.   I'm guessing based on your post you'd have no problem with a $200 one time gift.  

$200 a month is $2400 a year and that is likely only the start of it.  How can you be sure they will use it towards rent?  What if they blow it and then come to you begging for back rent?  Bad bad idea all around.

This is a hill I would die on personally.  You are not remotely selfish for wanting your money to go to YOUR immediate family.  Your MIL sounds like she has a pretty good set up where she is right now, that she is leaving it for a non-rent controlled apartment is on her.  If your SIL wants her to move down there that bad then she needs to grow up and get a real job to help support her mother herself.  There are tons of jobs right now that while they may not be glamorous only want bodies and are paying $$ to get them.  

I'm speaking from a place of two old people in our lives making shitty decisions and expecting others to foot the bill.  Yeah it can be painful to watch but you need to protect yourself first.   Let SIL and MIL sink or swim.  If either had half a brain they'd realize what a bad idea this is and not move forward.  You're not responsible for others stupidity.

ETA: Helping your mom who is/has been financially responsible IMO is different too.  While I would still be leery because poop happens you know that the money is going to be going exactly where it should and your mom likely ended up where she needs your  help through no fault of her own.

TOTALLY different than a blind woman moving away from her support network to an apartment that costs an extra $200 a month just because her and her daughter thinks it is a good idea.  TOTALLY different than counting on someone who hasn't held a real job and counts on her tax refund as income to pony up the difference so you continue to only owe $200 a month. 

You're also assuming SIL won't move in with her at some point and expect you to support her too.  I'm guessing if you were helping your mom she wouldn't pull that on you.

I'll repeat it again you are not responsible for others stupidity.  The fact your husband cannot see the difference is on him.

[wvugurl26]

Please don't let him make you feel bad about the camp gift. It's a wonderful gift for your niece. And it's a one time gift, not a recurring obligation. I know you work very hard and a lot of hours to earn that salary. Obviously the point is to support your family, but for me it would be hard to motivate myself for all that work if I couldn't do nice things with it.

I agree that moving her out of the apartment is a bad idea and $200/month would be just the beginning.

[azucena]

LQ - With IL gas taxes, it's likely $200/month for SIL to drive back and forth.  But really MIL doesn't need her there that often.  It's all tied to the silly cleaning 'job'.   Basically SIL probably breaks even or makes very little.  SIL could make a lot more waitressing but chooses not too.

And I've been resentful about paying for 3 extra printers only to have him lose focus on what could have been a nice side business as you basically set them and forget them.  Christmas 2020, he cranked out a ton of 2020/covid/toilet paper christmas tree ornaments and some personalized ones with names.  He made almost $2k in two months.  I'd told him all money he earned from it was his but would be nice if he spun some of it off into family trips or even the trips with the girls that he wants to take.

Haapi - yep, I know SIL's tax credits for her son will be going away.  When he was younger, I tried to convince her to put half of the refund in savings for emergencies.  That was madness to her.  She'd seen her mom and dad use their tax refunds for splurges every year, so that's all she's known. 

FIL passed away several years ago from alcoholism and smoking.  Oh yeah, did I mention both MIL and SIL smoke at least a pack a day.  Seriously, these folks could be a YM case study on what not to do.

MPL - DH is a preschool teacher making $30/yr.  This is the second year that my bonus > his salary so it's awkward.  His net paycheck is $2k/month.  So $2400/yr in rent is not chump change in comparison.  Meanwhile, my salary allows us to 'easily' do it.

He got up this morning and didn't mention it at all, so I have no idea where his head is at.  Pit in my stomach because I'm pretty sure the ball is already rolling on the move.  I have enough job stress.  I don't need this crap weighing on me too.

[resolution]

Is there any way you could pay to move SIL to be closer the MIL, so MIL could stay in the rent controlled apartment and her friend community? How is she expecting to qualify for the apartment if she only has $400 per month to spend? I am more concerned about the unlimited rent increases over time than the initial $200. Rents have almost doubled in the past few years in some areas, and if $400 is her hard limit, you might be left covering the full increase.

If you are spending money on your side of the family, I could see how your husband might want to spend money on his side of the family as well. In your situation I would probably set a budget for family giving and keep it similar for both sides of the family. 

[jerseygirl]

Good suggestion Drama, have SIL move closer to her mom so she can help more. Then MIL can remain where she seems comfortable

Does MIL want to move closer to SIL? I’m thinking likely because as MIL ages it is much more likely she will need more help. And MIL depends on SIL for that help. Good for MIL that she’s lived independently till now. Having had a disabled sister and aging mom they did need more help as they aged. I moved them closer to me. I didn’t have a sibling to help
Really $200/month or even $1000/month shouldn’t be a problem to help his mom. But thinking you’re mostly annoyed cause he wants you not him to pay. And seems he already is lazy and expecting you to cover most/all? Of family expenses

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Mar 10, 2022 8:54:39 GMT -5 azucena said:

LQ - With IL gas taxes, it's likely $200/month for SIL to drive back and forth.  But really MIL doesn't need her there that often.  It's all tied to the silly cleaning 'job'.   Basically SIL probably breaks even or makes very little.  SIL could make a lot more waitressing but chooses not too.

And I've been resentful about paying for 3 extra printers only to have him lose focus on what could have been a nice side business as you basically set them and forget them.  Christmas 2020, he cranked out a ton of 2020/covid/toilet paper christmas tree ornaments and some personalized ones with names.  He made almost $2k in two months.  I'd told him all money he earned from it was his but would be nice if he spun some of it off into family trips or even the trips with the girls that he wants to take.

Haapi - yep, I know SIL's tax credits for her son will be going away.  When he was younger, I tried to convince her to put half of the refund in savings for emergencies.  That was madness to her.  She'd seen her mom and dad use their tax refunds for splurges every year, so that's all she's known. 

FIL passed away several years ago from alcoholism and smoking.  Oh yeah, did I mention both MIL and SIL smoke at least a pack a day.  Seriously, these folks could be a YM case study on what not to do.

MPL - DH is a preschool teacher making $30/yr.  This is the second year that my bonus > his salary so it's awkward.  His net paycheck is $2k/month.  So $2400/yr in rent is not chump change in comparison.  Meanwhile, my salary allows us to 'easily' do it.

He got up this morning and didn't mention it at all, so I have no idea where his head is at.  Pit in my stomach because I'm pretty sure the ball is already rolling on the move.  I have enough job stress.  I don't need this crap weighing on me too.

Doesn't matter.  His family isn't owed support from you because you make more.   You have very valid arguments for why this is an incredibly bad idea.  If he refuses to agree with you then it is up to HIM to find the money.  He can fire up those printers or take a second job there are plenty that are remote and flexible schedule now.

You're not obligated to help people because you earn good money.   You pay your taxes which go to services to help people like your SIL and MIL.  If they want her to move that bad they can find services there to support her.  If they can't find any then that should make her realize she needs to stay put.

You are not obligated to personally hand over money from your wallet to people who cannot be bothered to manage their own lives.  These are two grown adults we are talking about here.

I get it you are going to feel guilty but PLEASE don't let yourself be bullied into doing something.  Stand your ground.   You're not feeling bad because you are doing something wrong.  You are feeling bad because your programming is trying to manipulate you into doing something you know is wrong.   You'll feel temporarily better by giving in but you've set yourself up for long term suffering.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 10, 2022 8:59:02 GMT -5 resolution said:

Is there any way you could pay to move SIL to be closer the MIL, so MIL could stay in the rent controlled apartment and her friend community? How is she expecting to qualify for the apartment if she only has $400 per month to spend? I am more concerned about the unlimited rent increases over time than the initial $200. Rents have almost doubled in the past few years in some areas, and if $400 is her hard limit, you might be left covering the full increase.

If you are spending money on your side of the family, I could see how your husband might want to spend money on his side of the family as well. In your situation I would probably set a budget for family giving and keep it similar for both sides of the family. 

She homeschools, and cleans MIL's apartment for a "job".  Sure seems to make more sense to me for her to move.

[Deleted]

I feel for you.  There are true partnerships where one person brings in the majority of the $$ (my parents' marriage, DS' marriage, my second marriage) and there are ones where the partner earning less or nothing isn't bringing much else to the table (my first marriage to a spendthrift who was unemployed the last 5 years of the marriage).  If you're in the latter class, sometimes you need to pull the "my income, my decision" card.  You need to protect your own family.  Who will be around for you when you have to start paying for college or when you retire?  And, since women typically outlive their husbands (yeah, I know, you're aware of that in your business  ), they bear the consequences if there wasn't enough saved for retirement.

I agree with Drama- this could turn into a bottomless pit as rent increases, inflation increases the cost of everything else, they make more bad decisions, etc.  Your husband apparently has the means to make $$ with his 3-D printers.  Let him subsidize them.

One book I've never read but which has been highly recommended is "Boundaries"- it deals with balancing support for needy friends and family while still protecting yourself.

ETA:  $200/month is about $7/day.  Bet they could come up with that money if they quit or cut back on smoking.

Mar 10, 2022 9:11:28 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

If I recall correctly, Lena used to have a budgeted amount each month that she set aside to help with her husband's family emergencies. That doesn't help with your current situation but might be a long term option.

Michelle Singletary, a financial columnist ("The Color of Money") and writer, said she does that. You wouldn't need to let the family members know that there's $X per month available- if they need less than $X you can keep the difference for larger expenses. You could even agree that whatever DH makes for his printing business (or some %) will go into that account. It still lets you set a limit that's comfortable and not as obligatory as a rent subsidy.

[raeoflyte]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I think there's the ym answer here, but I think the more important answer you need is how you and your dh can come to terms on these issues together. Because this is probably just the beginning of it. Is he asking permission or is he asking to open the discussion. That would matter to me.

I significantly out earn dh but it's our money, not my money. He's caused a lot of money issues honestly but my goal is still for us to make decisions together. If we made similar income, or if we were a newer relationship I'd probably go with separate money but I don't see how- with our situation as is, that I can lay claim to my money without jeopardizing the rest of the relationship.

If I recall correctly, Lena used to have a budgeted amount each month that she set aside to help with her husband's family emergencies. That doesn't help with your current situation but might be a long term option.

[Lizard Queen]

$200/month at 4% for 30 years is about $139,000.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 10, 2022 9:21:32 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

$200/month at 4% for 30 years is about $139,000.

And there is no way it will stay $200/month.  Rent prices will go up every year.

[Lizard Queen]

My mom had a saying from the old country for this kind of thing--they're sitting in your pocket. Meaning, they're constantly pulling from your wallet. Hard no for me.

[haapai]

Mar 10, 2022 9:21:32 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

$200/month at 4% for 30 years is about $139,000.

30 years is pushing it.  And it's not going to be $200 a month either, it will be more.   azucena can get more exact numbers.  She knows how to look up the remaining life expectancy of 60-something woman who smokes. 

I think that the biggest thing here is not the money but the damage to her MIL's independence. 

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 10, 2022 9:28:25 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mar 10, 2022 9:21:32 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

$200/month at 4% for 30 years is about $139,000.

30 years is pushing it.  And it's not going to be $200 a month either, it will be more.   azucena can get more exact numbers.  She knows how to look up the remaining life expectancy of 60-something woman who smokes. 

I think that the biggest thing here is not the money but the damage to her MIL's independence. 

Probably.

[busymom]

No.  And, no is a complete sentence.  So, what happens (worst case scenario--that's part of my own decision-making) if you & DH split up?  They'll paint YOU as the bad guy, because "poor" DH got screwed in the divorce settlement.  $200 is only the beginning.  Pretty soon, you'll be expected to bankroll both MIL AND SIL.  I don't care what excuses they come up with.  (And yes, I donate to charity, but this qualifies as a long-haul disaster.)  Take the short pain now, say no, because you'll be kicking yourself as this drama plays out if you don't say no now.  If DH wants to donate, let it come from his extra work, not yours.  You've got your own family to think of.  Your own kids come first.  Always.

[haapai]

I honestly cannot approach this as a money problem.  For me, it's about elder abuse.  The SIL is already using her mother to commit fraud.  She's proposing a currently unnecessary move that will leave her mother financially dependent on her kids and isolated from friends. 

[giramomma]

So. I would nope right out of it.

There's so many layers. Your SIL gaming the system by doing things off the books. There's no way in hell I would support that. And I'm not the most ethical person in the world.

Your husband has not grown up.

My CHILDREN understand that fair does not mean equal. Well, the missy doesn't, but she's four. It's a lesson we learn, starting at age 8 or so.

You also have a husband that has significant medical issues in the past. Let's play this out worst case. You spend your money supporting MIL/SIL. What's going to happen when you need that money to care provide care for your husband or if you need it to hire help for your kids because your husband can't pitch in and the money isn't there. It's not like you can quit your job. Money trees and sugar daddies are not financially viable options.

So. Rather than pay $200 for rent, I would suggest that your husband directly pay $100 of utilities or buy $200 worth of grocery store gift cards a month. Power and food are still needs. It's easier to keep a hard line.

Instead of focusing on your husband. I'd turn inward.  Are you back in therapy? Have you worked out what your boundaries are? If this is your HTDO, you need to be clear about what you are going to do if he goes beyond his allowance. (We make half of what you do...and my allowance is $20 a month if I'm lucky...not $150 a month). AND you need to be prepared to do it. Which for me would likely include a free consult to a lawyer. Because knowledge is power. (Apparently except for my own job situation. But that's another story).

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Mar 10, 2022 9:44:59 GMT -5 haapai said:

I honestly cannot approach this as a money problem.  For me, it's about elder abuse.  The SIL is already using her mother to commit fraud.  She's proposing a currently unnecessary move that will leave her mother financially dependent on her kids and isolated from friends. 

But unless MIL is incompetent and azucena's husband has POA over here there anything that can be done about it besides talking to everyone about it.  I'm not saying it isn't a possibility but if MIL is considered of sound mind it's technically her choice to move and there isn't a darn thing anyone can do about it.  Being blind is not the equivalent of being mentally incapable of handling your own decisions.

You cannot protect people from their own stupidity.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Mar 10, 2022 9:28:25 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mar 10, 2022 9:21:32 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

$200/month at 4% for 30 years is about $139,000.

30 years is pushing it.  And it's not going to be $200 a month either, it will be more.   azucena can get more exact numbers.  She knows how to look up the remaining life expectancy of 60-something woman who smokes. 

I think that the biggest thing here is not the money but the damage to her MIL's independence. 

Even if 30 years is pushing it rent is going up EVERYWHERE right now at insane rates.  It may be $200 right now but what about six months from now? A year?  Two years?  The woman is in her 60's even with smoking she could have a long life ahead of her.

She's rent controlled right now which means they NEVER have to worry about rent going up.  MIL giving that up is absolutely insane.  The consequences should be on her and SIL for being so stupid.

[haapai]

Mar 10, 2022 9:49:50 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Mar 10, 2022 9:44:59 GMT -5 haapai said:

I honestly cannot approach this as a money problem.  For me, it's about elder abuse.  The SIL is already using her mother to commit fraud.  She's proposing a currently unnecessary move that will leave her mother financially dependent on her kids and isolated from friends. 

But unless MIL is incompetent and azucena's husband has POA over here there anything that can be done about it besides talking to everyone about it.  I'm not saying it isn't a possibility but if MIL is considered of sound mind it's technically her choice to move and there isn't a darn thing anyone can do about it.  Being blind is not the equivalent of being mentally incapable of handling your own decisions.

You cannot protect people from their own stupidity.  

I wrote this more to point out just how bad it is going to get, not to propose a legal response. 

If's she's already using her mom for money, she will continue to do so.  If she is willing to do something as harmful to her mother as moving her at this point....

[finnime]

I think you need to gently, kindly, firmly explain to DH that you (both) cannot reasonably support his mother and sister, but there may be times when it makes sense to you (both) to provide a one-time gift, as you've done in the past. That is your comfort level. And one-time gifts are thoughtfully chosen knowing that they'll do real good, such as hearing aids or sleep away camp.

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 10, 2022 9:54:12 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Mar 10, 2022 9:28:25 GMT -5 haapai said:

30 years is pushing it.  And it's not going to be $200 a month either, it will be more.   azucena can get more exact numbers.  She knows how to look up the remaining life expectancy of 60-something woman who smokes. 

I think that the biggest thing here is not the money but the damage to her MIL's independence. 

Even if 30 years is pushing it rent is going up EVERYWHERE right now at insane rates.  It may be $200 right now but what about six months from now? A year?  Two years?  The woman is in her 60's even with smoking she could have a long life ahead of her.

She's rent controlled right now which means they NEVER have to worry about rent going up.  MIL giving that up is absolutely insane.  The consequences should be on her and SIL for being so stupid.

It's all a huge guessing game as to exact numbers. My point in crunching them was to show this is exponentially more money than a camp or a single trip.

[giramomma]

At the end of the day, it's not a MIL problem or SIL problem. It's a DuH problem.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 10, 2022 10:10:02 GMT -5 giramomma said:

At the end of the day, it's not a MIL problem or SIL problem. It's a DuH problem.

A lot of us have those.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Mar 10, 2022 10:10:02 GMT -5 giramomma said:

At the end of the day, it's not a MIL problem or SIL problem. It's a DuH problem.

It's not a money problem either.  With 250K combined income the $200/month probably isn't a big deal which is I'm sure what her husband is thinking.  He's overlooking the main reason azucena is opposed to doing this. 

[giramomma]

Mar 10, 2022 10:15:31 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Mar 10, 2022 10:10:02 GMT -5 giramomma said:

At the end of the day, it's not a MIL problem or SIL problem. It's a DuH problem.

A lot of us have those.

I hear you. I'm in the DuH group as well. Though, I think mine has been edging out.