Unvaccinated

[andi9899]

I'm pretty sure any long term vaccine related issue is preferable to dying of COVID.

[thyme4change]

Sept 27, 2021 16:20:07 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Okay. You are right.

How can I be as confident as the rest of you? How do you know nothing bad is going to happen? Then I can have a rebuttal for the anti-vaxxers I know. Right now I don't.

There is risk in both decisions. However, the risk of harm from the vaccine is far lower than the risk of getting serious Covid, long haul covid or death from covid.

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2021 16:21:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 27, 2021 15:55:25 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

First of all, I received the Covid shot.

Are any of you skeptical of problems this shot may cause in the future? Do you remember the Lyme's Disease vaccine? I have friends that received the Lyme's Disease vaccine and 20 years later have health problems related to the vaccine.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/


You all seem 100 percent confident you did the right thing. Good for you. I am not 100 percent confident I did the right thing.  

Do you know the long term complications or consequences of having had COVID? Are you sure there are none?

What we do know is that you are 11 times more likely to die if you are unvaccinated than if you are vaccinated and 5 times more likely to be hospitalized if you are unvaccinated. You risk of long COVID, if you are infected is about 33%. And even if you do not have any of those things happen, you can infect others who may have serious complications. So, even with your hypothetical(and likely wrong) concerns, if you look at what is known, vaccination benefit>>>risk. If you are dead or a pulmonary cripple, you do not have to worry about long term side effects.

I agree with you. But I do not feel the Covid shot made me bullet-proof.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 27, 2021 16:20:07 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Okay. You are right.

How can I be as confident as the rest of you? How do you know nothing bad is going to happen? Then I can have a rebuttal for the anti-vaxxers I know. Right now I don't.

Edited to add: The Lyme's Disease vaccine should still be available. Lyme's Disease is prevalent in my area.

There are no guarantees in life when it comes to health. All we can do is look at the facts(real medical facts, not made up ones) and make the case. What I posted in response to your previous post are the facts. Unfortunately, people who are against the vaccine also refuse to accept the facts. All I know is that the hospitals in the areas are full because of an out of control COVID pandemic, and places with high vaccination rates are not. Almost 700k people have died from COVID since this started. That fact alone should be enough. 

And in response to your post about the side effects of the Lyme vaccine, anecdotes aren't data. My wife worked the Lyme vaccine clinical trial. And dogs can still receive the vaccine. 

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2021 16:22:06 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I'm pretty sure any long term vaccine related issue is preferable to dying of COVID.

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 27, 2021 16:25:37 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:21:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Do you know the long term complications or consequences of having had COVID? Are you sure there are none?

What we do know is that you are 11 times more likely to die if you are unvaccinated than if you are vaccinated and 5 times more likely to be hospitalized if you are unvaccinated. You risk of long COVID, if you are infected is about 33%. And even if you do not have any of those things happen, you can infect others who may have serious complications. So, even with your hypothetical(and likely wrong) concerns, if you look at what is known, vaccination benefit>>>risk. If you are dead or a pulmonary cripple, you do not have to worry about long term side effects.

I agree with you. But I do not feel the Covid shot made me bullet-proof.

All vaccines are meant to prevent serious illness and death. Anything more and they are spectacular. Older individuals were the ones dying before the vaccine was around. The age distributions of deaths has changed dramatically with the delta spike. If COVID can become a cold(or more like the flu), life goes back to a semblance of normal. That was always the goal. Anything more is gravy.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:22:06 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I'm pretty sure any long term vaccine related issue is preferable to dying of COVID.

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

Funny how people say that. If you had cancer, and the treatment that could cure your cancer had a significant negative outcome on your long term health was your only option, you would refuse treatment?

You are ready to die now? You would rather die from COVID than risk the vaccine? Even when no previous vaccine has had those kind of side effects? You are listening to anti-vaxxers propaganda.

Vaccination is one of the 2 most important advances in the history of medicine. Because of vaccination, smallpox, polio, measles, rubella are no longer the scourges they once were. Children no longer die of there infectious disease. As a result, life expectancy increased from 47 in 1900 to around 77 now. What vaccine related issues have we seen from any of these vaccines?

[jerseygirl]

Sept 27, 2021 15:55:25 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

First of all, I received the Covid shot.

Are any of you skeptical of problems this shot may cause in the future? Do you remember the Lyme's Disease vaccine? I have friends that received the Lyme's Disease vaccine and 20 years later have health problems related to the vaccine.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/


You all seem 100 percent confident you did the right thing. Good for you. I am not 100 percent confident I did the right thing.  

Too bad
The Lyme vaccine was withdrawn in spite of no evidence of more arthritis than in population
But lawyers stirred the pot and no longer feasible to produce

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2021 16:35:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

Funny how people say that. If you had cancer, and the treatment that could cure your cancer had a significant negative outcome on your long term health was your only option, you would refuse treatment?

You are ready to die now? You would rather die from COVID than risk the vaccine? Even when no previous vaccine has had those kind of side effects? You are listening to anti-vaxxers propaganda.

Vaccination is one of the 2 most important advances in the history of medicine. Because of vaccination, smallpox, polio, measles, rubella are no longer the scourges they once were. Children no longer die of there infectious disease. As a result, life expectancy increased from 47 in 1900 to around 77 now. What vaccine related issues have we seen from any of these vaccines?

My answer is yes to your first question. 

I got the Covid shot because I did not want to suffer and have long-term Covid. Death doesn't scare me.

[stillmovingforward]

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:22:06 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I'm pretty sure any long term vaccine related issue is preferable to dying of COVID.

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

And it would be nice if your covid death did not take me, my elderly mother, my doctor DSIL with you. That's the difference. You might prefer to die a covid death than risk long term injury but there are others you will infect along the way that wish to live and trust science.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 27, 2021 16:39:42 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:35:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Funny how people say that. If you had cancer, and the treatment that could cure your cancer had a significant negative outcome on your long term health was your only option, you would refuse treatment?

You are ready to die now? You would rather die from COVID than risk the vaccine? Even when no previous vaccine has had those kind of side effects? You are listening to anti-vaxxers propaganda.

Vaccination is one of the 2 most important advances in the history of medicine. Because of vaccination, smallpox, polio, measles, rubella are no longer the scourges they once were. Children no longer die of there infectious disease. As a result, life expectancy increased from 47 in 1900 to around 77 now. What vaccine related issues have we seen from any of these vaccines?

My answer is yes to your first question. 

I got the Covid shot because I did not want to suffer and have long-term Covid. Death doesn't scare me.

Are you a DNR, do you have a living will? Do your relatives know that you do not want aggressive treatment? Because, in my experience as an ICU physician, most people who talk like you do change their tune when faced with dying? It is all an abstract concept until it isn't. The dying from COVID is especially brutal. If you are not a DNR, the process of dying should scare you with this disease.

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2021 16:44:59 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:39:42 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

My answer is yes to your first question. 

I got the Covid shot because I did not want to suffer and have long-term Covid. Death doesn't scare me.

Are you a DNR, do you have a living will? Do your relatives know that you do not want aggressive treatment? Because, in my experience as an ICU physician, most people who talk like you do change their tune when faced with dying? It is all an abstract concept until it isn't. The dying from COVID is especially brutal. If you are not a DNR, the process of dying should scare you with this disease.

I do have all of that. Last year I had a health scare and got everything in order. I had been meaning to do that for a few years since I am single. The clinic I go to has my legal documents on file.

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2021 16:41:19 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

And it would be nice if your covid death did not take me, my elderly mother, my doctor DSIL with you. That's the difference. You might prefer to die a covid death than risk long term injury but there are others you will infect along the way that wish to live and trust science.

I got the Covid shot, I social distance and I wear a mask when I am around others. What else can I do to prevent the spread?

[stillmovingforward]

Then you are doing what you need to do for the health of society.
My response was due to the "I'd rather be dead than suffer long term health issues from covid". That is a sentiment said in ER by so many covid positive non vaccinated individuals. Who infect so many others on their way.

[jerseygirl]

Sept 27, 2021 15:55:25 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

First of all, I received the Covid shot.

Are any of you skeptical of problems this shot may cause in the future? Do you remember the Lyme's Disease vaccine? I have friends that received the Lyme's Disease vaccine and 20 years later have health problems related to the vaccine.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/


You all seem 100 percent confident you did the right thing. Good for you. I am not 100 percent confident I did the right thing.  

Too bad
The Lyme vaccine was withdrawn in spite of no evidence of more arthritis than in population
But lawyers stirred the pot and no longer feasible to produce

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:22:06 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I'm pretty sure any long term vaccine related issue is preferable to dying of COVID.

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

Really?  Your risk of being left disabled from covid is much greater than a vaccine related event.  

There have been a handful of problems given the roughly 184 million people vaccinated in the US.  There have been 690,000 deaths associated with the 43 million cases of covid (and a good chunk of disabilities).  This is really a simple math problem.  

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 27, 2021 18:47:37 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

Really?  Your risk of being left disabled from covid is much greater than a vaccine related event.  

There have been a handful of problems given the roughly 184 million people vaccinated in the US.  There have been 690,000 deaths associated with the 43 million cases of covid (and a good chunk of disabilities).  This is really a simple math problem.  

Apparently not

[bean29]

Sept 27, 2021 19:22:25 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 27, 2021 18:47:37 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Really?  Your risk of being left disabled from covid is much greater than a vaccine related event.  

There have been a handful of problems given the roughly 184 million people vaccinated in the US.  There have been 690,000 deaths associated with the 43 million cases of covid (and a good chunk of disabilities).  This is really a simple math problem.  

Apparently not

Yeah, I was thinking that when numbers get so big people can’t conceptualize them, and they lose meaning. I’m with you mitch-I’ll take my risks with the vaccines. I am vaccinated. I haven’t noticed any issues I wasn’t already dealing with before I was vaccinated.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 28, 2021 4:52:10 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Sept 27, 2021 19:22:25 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apparently not

Yeah, I was thinking that when numbers get so big people can’t conceptualize them, and they lose meaning. I’m with you mitch-I’ll take my risks with the vaccines. I am vaccinated. I haven’t noticed any issues I wasn’t already dealing with before I was vaccinated.

Numbers say everything.  5000 vaccine related issues given the millions of vaccines given is a very small risk when compared to the risk of being disabled or dead from an infectious disease.  

Everyone does things that entail risk.  I took birth control pills for the better part of 30 years.  I had a risk of blood clots.  I minimized those risks, by not smoking but they still were not zero…..and ironically, still about 10x greater than risks proclaimed for one of the vaccines.  

There is also the added benefit that be protecting myself, I’m helping protect others.  It’s not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than being selfish and being unvaccinated.  Those unvaccinated do not seem to understand that while THEY may be willing to take the risk of covid, their choice means that they may leave their children orphans, leave a family with no source of income, devastate a family with disability, increase the risks of those who cannot protect themselves as well, slow the spread and mutation……and finally, take some of the stress off our healthcare system when has been fighting this for nearly 2 years now.  I’m tired of seeing those who have other health problems easily dealt with cheated out of their healthcare because others have made choices that have made them more vulnerable.

[thyme4change]

Sept 27, 2021 16:27:17 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Sept 27, 2021 16:22:06 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I'm pretty sure any long term vaccine related issue is preferable to dying of COVID.

If the long term vaccine related issue is bad enough, I would rather be dead.

Well, then take the vaccine, and if in 10 years you are having serious side effects that make life unbearable- kill yourself.

[tractor]

Sept 27, 2021 15:55:25 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

First of all, I received the Covid shot.

Are any of you skeptical of problems this shot may cause in the future? Do you remember the Lyme's Disease vaccine? I have friends that received the Lyme's Disease vaccine and 20 years later have health problems related to the vaccine.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/


You all seem 100 percent confident you did the right thing. Good for you. I am not 100 percent confident I did the right thing.  

I got the Lyme vaccine, never had any side effects. So here's your one positive data point to offset your one negative data point. Now go get the shot 😊

[nidena]

Should make for some fun times, having the flu and covid at the same time: www.cnn.com/2021/09/29/health/covid-flu-same-time/index.html

[Opti]

Sad unusual case of a college student.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/college-student-dies-from-covid-after-mom-encouraged-threatened-and-nagged-him-to-get-vaccinated/ar-AAOVjfV?ocid=msedgntp

Two days after Gilreath moved into college, he contracted COVID-19, Demello told WECT News. Despite having no preexisting conditions, he quickly got severely ill, and developed a sinus and staph infection that lasted for three weeks before moving into his brain.



Gilreath developed a brain abscess that ruptured while he was in his dorm last week. He was briefly conscious after going to the hospital, but the blood flow to his brain soon stopped, and on Friday a CAT scan showed that he had irreversible brain damage.

On Tuesday morning, he was taken off life support and died.

[pulmonarymd]

And entirely preventable

[dannylion]

Some interesting thoughts on what drives the intransigence of vaccine refusers:  

Why Your Uncle Isn't Going To Get Vaccinated

[MJ2.0]

Sept 29, 2021 14:06:23 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Some interesting thoughts on what drives the intransigence of vaccine refusers:  

Why Your Uncle Isn't Going To Get Vaccinated

I love the ones that are saying they don’t trust the govt/pharmaceutical/medical companies… yet they are eating food from the grocery stores and taking OTC medications (regulated by the FDA), and they’re going to the doctor and hospital when they are sick.

[nidena]

Sept 29, 2021 13:02:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sad unusual case of a college student.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/college-student-dies-from-covid-after-mom-encouraged-threatened-and-nagged-him-to-get-vaccinated/ar-AAOVjfV?ocid=msedgntp

Two days after Gilreath moved into college, he contracted COVID-19, Demello told WECT News. Despite having no preexisting conditions, he quickly got severely ill, and developed a sinus and staph infection that lasted for three weeks before moving into his brain.



Gilreath developed a brain abscess that ruptured while he was in his dorm last week. He was briefly conscious after going to the hospital, but the blood flow to his brain soon stopped, and on Friday a CAT scan showed that he had irreversible brain damage.

On Tuesday morning, he was taken off life support and died.

Good gravy!  That would be a horrible way to die.

[nidena]

Sept 29, 2021 17:13:29 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Sept 29, 2021 14:06:23 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Some interesting thoughts on what drives the intransigence of vaccine refusers:  

Why Your Uncle Isn't Going To Get Vaccinated

I love the ones that are saying they don’t trust the govt/pharmaceutical/medical companies… yet they are eating food from the grocery stores and taking OTC medications (regulated by the FDA), and they’re going to the doctor and hospital when they are sick.

*food products

These are the folks that shop the center aisles only.

[Tiny]

Sept 29, 2021 17:42:54 GMT -5 nidena said:

Sept 29, 2021 13:02:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sad unusual case of a college student.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/college-student-dies-from-covid-after-mom-encouraged-threatened-and-nagged-him-to-get-vaccinated/ar-AAOVjfV?ocid=msedgntp

Two days after Gilreath moved into college, he contracted COVID-19, Demello told WECT News. Despite having no preexisting conditions, he quickly got severely ill, and developed a sinus and staph infection that lasted for three weeks before moving into his brain.



Gilreath developed a brain abscess that ruptured while he was in his dorm last week. He was briefly conscious after going to the hospital, but the blood flow to his brain soon stopped, and on Friday a CAT scan showed that he had irreversible brain damage.

On Tuesday morning, he was taken off life support and died.

Good gravy!  That would be a horrible way to die.

Yes.  It is a horrible way to die.   

With the added  side helping of everyone who knew him while he was sick (guilt of "maybe I could have done something!)  I'm guessing he didn't live alone nor did he stay sick in his dorm room for weeks alone  and then who ever found him in his dorm room (I assume he didn't call for help or get himself to the hospital)  gets to carry that with them for the rest of their lives.   

[Tennesseer]

LEONARD PITTS: Goodbye, and good riddance

"If you want to leave, take good care, hope you make a lot of nice friends out there." — From "Wild World" by Cat Stevens

•••

This is for those of you who've chosen to quit your jobs rather than submit to a vaccine mandate.

No telling how many of you there actually are, but lately, you're all over the news. Just last week, a nearly-30-year veteran of the San Jose Police Department surrendered his badge rather than comply with the city's requirement that all employees be inoculated against COVID-19. He joins an Army lieutenant colonel, some airline employees, a Major League Baseball executive, the choral director of the San Francisco Symphony, workers at the tax collector's office in Orange County, Fla., and, incredibly, dozens of health care professionals.

Well, on behalf of the rest of us, the ones who miss concerts, restaurants and other people's faces, the ones who are sick and tired of living in pandemic times, here's a word of response to you quitters: Goodbye.

And here's two more: Good riddance.

Not to minimize any of this. A few weeks ago, a hospital in upstate New York announced it would have to "pause" delivering babies because of resignations among its maternity staff. So the threat of difficult ramifications is certainly real. But on the plus side, your quitting goes a long way toward purging us of the gullible, the conspiracy-addled, the logic-impaired and the stubbornly ignorant. And that's not nothing.

We've been down this road before. Whenever faced with some mandate imposed in the interest of the common good, some of us act like they just woke up on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall. "There's no freedom no more," whined one man in video that recently aired on "The Daily Show With Trevor Noah." The clip was from the 1980s, and the guy had just gotten a ticket for not wearing his seatbelt.

It's an unfortunately common refrain. Can't smoke in a movie theater? Can't crank your music to headache decibels at 2 in the morning? Can't post the Ten Commandments in a courtroom? "There's no freedom no more." Some of you seem to think freedom means no one can be compelled to do, or refrain from doing, anything. But that's not freedom, it's anarchy.

Usually, the rest of us don't agonize over your intransigence. Often it has no direct impact on us. The guy in the "Daily Show" clip was only demanding the right to skid across a highway on his face, after all. But now you claim the right to risk the health care system and our personal lives.

So if you're angry, guess what? You're not the only ones.

Complete article here: link