happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 10, 2021 7:22:07 GMT -5
It’s got some GOPers spitting mad and the RNC threatening to sue him, but I think Biden is smart to frame our current Covid problem as a war against the unvaccinated.
Something like 70 percent of us are vaccinated now. I live in a red state where the national guard had to be called out to help the overwhelmed hospitals and hell yes, I want everyone to know over 90 percent of the sickest people are the unvaccinated.
My company, part of a large international company, is gearing up to require all employees be vaccinated. I know there are a significant number of employees who will refuse and will get fired. If they want to chose to be unemployed rather then get a vaccine that millions have gotten with little to no negative effects, fuck em. The longer this delta variant keeps circulating the higher the chances are that a new super variant that is not effected by the vaccine shows up. Time to stop coddled the anti science crowd.
In the end, Biden will be lauded for forcing the country to take steps to end Covid, and the GOPers enabling the anti vac people will carry that stain for the rest of their political career.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Sept 10, 2021 8:31:53 GMT -5
I live in South Dakota. Kristi Noem is the governor. She has quite a conflict now with the anti mask crowd who, up until now, have been her supporters. Most of the major employers in our state have now required vaccination. All the health care businesses have required vaccination. The anti-vax crowd does not want to be told to get the shot or lose their job. South Dakota is a right to work state. Meaning, any employer can dismiss you at any time with no reason given. The only down side for the employer in this example, may be unemployment insurance premiums rising. Workers who refuse the vaccination will not be eligible for unemployment payments because they will have been fired for cause. Right to work law is the cornerstone of Republican labor law and is not going away ever.
Kristi tweeted that she will bring suit against the Biden administration for the vaccination mandate. We are 50th in the nation for teacher pay, have record reserves in the state coffers and unlimited money to spend on attorneys and lawsuits. All of this nonsense keeps Kristi on Fox News and her name in the papers.
I don't think the promise of lawsuits is going to do much for her base. HR at your workplace will move way faster on vaccination and subsequent dismissal that the courts will move to address this supposed "injustice".
Help wanted signs are everywhere, but it is still difficult to find an employer who offers a decent wage, full time work and benefits. I don't think people will want to downgrade their standard of living and quit their jobs rather than be vaccinated. In the end we all need money to live.
By the way, South Dakota has one of the highest Covid deaths per capita of any state. 850,000 people live here. 5000 have been hospitalized with Covid to date and more than 2000 have died.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 10, 2021 11:08:08 GMT -5
South Dakota is a right to work state. Meaning, any employer can dismiss you at any time with no reason given. The only down side for the employer in this example, may be unemployment insurance premiums rising. Workers who refuse the vaccination will not be eligible for unemployment payments because they will have been fired for cause. Right to work law is the cornerstone of Republican labor law and is not going away ever.
So are Nebraska and Iowa. Not going to lie I am loving watching Republicans have to eat their words. Isn't so wonderful when it affects you is it?
We also ruled corporations are people with Citizens United. So if your company's CEO personally believes in vaccination then tough titties they have a right to decide you must be vaccinated too or can't work there. Doesn't just apply to Hobby Lobby hating gay people and not wanting women on birth control.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Sept 10, 2021 12:51:16 GMT -5
I think this is a great thing. I am so tired of these damn anti vax covidiots! They take so much prescription and store bought medication, eat so much food and drink, use many products, with no idea what is in them. Their argument is ridiculous! They don't actually fear what's in the vaccine, they just don't want to "lose"
My company hasn't mandated vaccines yet, but to go into the office, you have to be vaccinated or have a test weekly. Most of our hundreds of employees are still 100% remote, and will continue to be so indefinitely. Our schools are starting to mandate vaccines for kids over 12, which is also great.
California seems to be trying to do the right things, but with the recall vote coming up next week, it could all go south very fast!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2021 14:05:33 GMT -5
it is 18 months late, but this is a third surge, and the first under Biden.
THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. IF TRUMP HAD DONE IT, WE MIGHT HAVE SAVED HALF A MILLION AMERICANS.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 10, 2021 14:34:26 GMT -5
4 th surge, but who's counting
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 10, 2021 15:09:53 GMT -5
I will play the world's smallest violin for the people who are currently not vaccinated (and have no actual reason to not be vaccinated). Poor babies. So sad. My "tots and pears" will be with them if they get sick and then with their family if they die. I ran out of compassion about 6 months ago. It's looking like I will be going back to the office in early October. My area has had 3 weeks of "large gatherings of people doing things they did pre-pandemic" and yes the number of cases of Covid19 have gone up and there have be more deaths - but nothing at all like the previous surges where there "large gatherings of UNVACCINATED people doing things they did pre-pandemic" . As far as I can tell - there's little to no loud outrage about the vaccine or getting vaccinated here. Heck, most of the people I know in real life were fully vaccinated by July 4th. Most of the 12 year old and up school kids were vaccinated before school started. I live in a densely populated urban Democratic place... Old people were falling over themselves to get vaccinated back in Feb/March of 2021... And then the 50 somethings did the same thing (get vaccinated). I think the majority of people here were fully vaccinated by July 4th. I think lots and lots of the 12 year old and up kids (could get vaccinated in May 2021) also got vaccinated before the school year started. I know the handful of tweens and teens I know were vaccinated by the end of August. (all of the college kids I know also got vaccinated as soon as they could.) I know the parents with kids under 12 are in a bind - and I think they would like it if their kid(s) could get vaccinated... all the unvaccinated "disease spreaders" are putting unvaccinated little kids at risk. I think this means the vaccine works and if enough people would get it Covid19 wouldn't be much of a worry in every day life. OK, I might not have compassion but I think I could muster a "thank you" as I do think it was very helpful that all the unvaccinated people - especially in Red states with low vaccination rates -- stepped up and took one on the chin to be the "control group" for the America wide experiment dealing with how during a pandemic an effective vaccine quickly put into arms of the population effects the effects of a pandemic. If a loved one dies I hope they receive some comfort from knowing "in their gut" or how ever they "know" that their belief was worth the the sacrifice. * the last word was that 95% of my employers workers are fully vaccinated (it was 90% back in early August...) I'm guessing the majority of the unvaccinated have actual health reasons why they are not vaccinated.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 10, 2021 15:41:32 GMT -5
The game changer was the FDA okaying the vaccine - employers (and the President) can now make getting vaccinated a condition of employment without too much legal blow block from employees. I personally think if our governmental leaders had been more "let's pull together as Americans and get vaccinated!" right from the start (looking at you mr. trump.) We'd probably be in a much better place. I don't understand why trump (and his administration and who ever he listened to) didn't play the Nationalist card and make getting a vaccination as being Patriotic or the American thing to do - MAGA!! Maybe I am mistaken and trump doesn't have any actual sway over the people who support him? Maybe he just mouths back to them what they want to hear? He can't actually change or sway them to do anything. Maybe that's why his response to the pandemic played out the way it did. He doesn't have any actual "leadership" power.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2021 16:47:24 GMT -5
4 th surge, but who's counting I didn't count the second one. I was looking at America as a whole, and it didn't stand out for me. but I acknowledge that some places, like ND, never had a "first surge". which is a shame, in a sense. because Trump figured "so what if it kills a few libs?"
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 10, 2021 18:11:33 GMT -5
To use, in the medical community, there were 4 distinct surges:
Spring 2020 Summer 2020 Winter 20-21 Summer 2021
We will have a 5th surge this winter
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 10, 2021 18:43:43 GMT -5
To use, in the medical community, there were 4 distinct surges: Spring 2020 Summer 2020 Winter 20-21 Summer 2021 We will have a 5th surge this winter We're on a different schedule in Michigan. Spring 2020, Fall 2020 (November is still fall, Right?) Spring 2021, and just starting now--fall 2021.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 10, 2021 22:08:25 GMT -5
The game changer was the FDA okaying the vaccine - employers (and the President) can now make getting vaccinated a condition of employment without too much legal blow block from employees. I personally think if our governmental leaders had been more "let's pull together as Americans and get vaccinated!" right from the start (looking at you mr. trump.) We'd probably be in a much better place. I don't understand why trump (and his administration and who ever he listened to) didn't play the Nationalist card and make getting a vaccination as being Patriotic or the American thing to do - MAGA!! Maybe I am mistaken and trump doesn't have any actual sway over the people who support him? Maybe he just mouths back to them what they want to hear? He can't actually change or sway them to do anything. Maybe that's why his response to the pandemic played out the way it did. He doesn't have any actual "leadership" power. I think right at the start Trump pushed hard to minimize Covid - it’s not a serious thing, it’s not really here, it will be gone very soon - until it was months too late. Even after that it was blatantly evident that Covid was real and trying to kill us, he clung to the idea that it wasn’t ‘really’ that bad unless you’re old and already have one foot in the grave anyway. He was trying to salvage the economy, because his biggest brag on the campaign trail was that he was a fabulous businessman and was going to create the most magnificent economy ever, and he thought if he denied Covid it would disappear. The maga minions latched on to his ‘it’s not real’ and ‘it’s not that bad’ mantras, and stuck with them. Even now, even after Trump grudgingly admitted it’s ok to get a vaccine, they hang on to the ‘fake’ everything. And dragging us with them.
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MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Sept 11, 2021 16:03:25 GMT -5
If Trump had aggressively attacked the pandemic, he probably would have been re-elected. I know my Republican sister in Michigan - with a PhD in Biology - was disgusted with Trump's actions and voted for Biden. Basically, Trump, was usual, wanted the quick win. He never wanted to work for anything. The quick win was to deny the virus and insist everyone go back to work. Of course that was nonsense, but Trump, lacking empathy for everyone other than himself, couldn't see what the problem was. Masking up, tracing outbreaks, developing vaccines? They involved real work and involved slowing down the economy. Trump needed an immediate solution. Hydroxychloroquine? Of course! The quick, easy solution! Biden knows what's involved in getting out of this pandemic. He's willing to put in the work. He thought all Americans would be thrilled at the availability of vaccines. Free! Effective! What's not to like? Unfortunately, Trump and Fox News had poisoned that well. Even the truth was not sufficient to change people's minds. The press didn't help either with the stories of vaccine side effects which, while existing, were minuscule compared to the effects of Covid. So this is where we're at. And no, this is not a war on the unvaccinated. This is a war on the virus. The unvaccinated are now being dragged into this war. They can't sit on the sidelines. They'll either help us win this war by being vaccinated or they will contribute to its continuation by being hosts to the virus and spreading it to others unwilling or unable to be vaccinated. I think the majority of large businesses recognize the wisdom of this action. What's better is that they don't have to be the bad guys. They can just tell their employees "We're following the law."
Biden has the law on his side. The Supreme Court, in 1905, upheld the validity of the government mandating vaccinations for the health of the country. And that was back before you could refuse based on religious or medical reasons. Moreover, the fact that you don't even have to get vaccinated, you just have to get tested, makes it even harder to argue against. Personally, I'm very interested in what Hobby Lobby is going to do. I'm sure this rankles the owners, but, unless they're willing to pay the fines involved - and they're a cheap company - they're going to have to go along with it. I currently have a niece working there. The other night I stopped at Target and about half the shoppers wore masks. Then I went next door to the Hobby Lobby to give my niece something and no employees were masked and only a few shoppers wore them. I am do damn sick and tired of this virus. Thank God Biden won the election! We might actually see an improvement. Even if it takes more than a couple of weeks.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 11, 2021 16:54:00 GMT -5
it is 18 months late, but this is a third surge, and the first under Biden. THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. IF TRUMP HAD DONE IT, WE MIGHT HAVE SAVED HALF A MILLION AMERICANS.Today there are memorial services for the roughly 3000 people who lost their lives in the 9/11 attack 20 years ago. Reading the names of those who died, keeping their memory alive. We entered into TWO wars to fight back (I still think going to war was the wrong response as it elevated criminals to enemies with political standing), yet here we are with a not insignificant portion of the population ignoring, denying, and abetting an enemy that has managed to kill more than 20X as many people in this country alone. And all because a megalomaniac was elected to the WH at the worst possible time in recdnt history. We can only hope that Biden's actions will turn the tide and this senseless dying from a preventable disease will end
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 11, 2021 18:14:26 GMT -5
it is 18 months late, but this is a third surge, and the first under Biden. THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. IF TRUMP HAD DONE IT, WE MIGHT HAVE SAVED HALF A MILLION AMERICANS.Today there are memorial services for the roughly 3000 people who lost their lives in the 9/11 attack 20 years ago. Reading the names of those who died, keeping their memory alive. We entered into TWO wars to fight back (I still think going to war was the wrong response as it elevated criminals to enemies with political standing), yet here we are with a not insignificant portion of the population ignoring, denying, and abetting an enemy that has managed to kill more than 20X as many people in this country alone. And all because a megalomaniac was elected to the WH at the worst possible time in recdnt history. We can only hope that Biden's actions will turn the tide and this senseless dying from a preventable disease will end 200X
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 11, 2021 23:03:17 GMT -5
Today there are memorial services for the roughly 3000 people who lost their lives in the 9/11 attack 20 years ago. Reading the names of those who died, keeping their memory alive. We entered into TWO wars to fight back (I still think going to war was the wrong response as it elevated criminals to enemies with political standing), yet here we are with a not insignificant portion of the population ignoring, denying, and abetting an enemy that has managed to kill more than 20X as many people in this country alone. And all because a megalomaniac was elected to the WH at the worst possible time in recdnt history. We can only hope that Biden's actions will turn the tide and this senseless dying from a preventable disease will end 200X - sloppy typo by me
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 12, 2021 0:27:18 GMT -5
If Trump had aggressively attacked the pandemic, he probably would have been re-elected. I know my Republican sister in Michigan - with a PhD in Biology - was disgusted with Trump's actions and voted for Biden.
not probably. he WOULD have been re-elected.
so, in this one very small sense, the pandemic was good for America.
Trump was actually at his approval peak in April when it still appeared that he MIGHT do something.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2021 9:44:38 GMT -5
My very far right cousin posted on Facebook that BIDEN pushed a vaccine that was developed too quickly, that if you follow the SCIENCE the vaccine can’t be any good because it was developed too quickly.
Yes, the far right is now pushing the false story that the vaccine was launched during the Biden presidency and therefore must be bad.
It’s amazing to me just how easy it is to plant a fake story with the far right - even stories that are easy to disprove just by pulling up video clips that prove the story is fake (like a video clip of Trump bragging about how he did Operation Warp Speed that made a vaccine available at record speed).
Whoever said that if you keep repeating a lie it eventually feels like the truth is 100% spot on.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2021 9:48:16 GMT -5
Some European countries are requiring Americans to show a vaccine card in order to enter. www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/30/eu-travel-restrictions/I haven’t heard any bitching from the anti-vaccers about how unfair it is for the Europeans to be limiting their freedoms this way. Maybe they’re just going to create fake vaccine cards and go anyway.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 12, 2021 15:11:05 GMT -5
Some European countries are requiring Americans to show a vaccine card in order to enter. www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/30/eu-travel-restrictions/I haven’t heard any bitching from the anti-vaccers about how unfair it is for the Europeans to be limiting their freedoms this way. Maybe they’re just going to create fake vaccine cards and go anyway. if they do that, and are found out, Americans will be banned from Europe. again.
edit: by and large, the anti-vax folks also seem to think 'Merica is the greatest place on Earth and Europe is a communist shithole. so, yeah. not likely they will be going, anyway.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 12, 2021 18:53:32 GMT -5
Some European countries are requiring Americans to show a vaccine card in order to enter. www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/30/eu-travel-restrictions/I haven’t heard any bitching from the anti-vaccers about how unfair it is for the Europeans to be limiting their freedoms this way. Maybe they’re just going to create fake vaccine cards and go anyway. if they do that, and are found out, Americans will be banned from Europe. again.
edit: by and large, the anti-vax folks also seem to think 'Merica is the greatest place on Earth and Europe is a communist shithole. so, yeah. not likely they will be going, anyway.
That was my thought too. It's just more rules for those already following the rules. The idiots keep skipping through life. Our HR person finally got it but not bad enough I think she'll get vaccinated.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Sept 13, 2021 16:33:33 GMT -5
I don’t have a problem with it, as long as they have enough sense to have an exemption for people who have real concerns. For example, someone I know is suffering from chronic hives. Her immune system clearly isn’t normal. I can understand why she’s a little hesitant to get vaccinated.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 13, 2021 17:31:14 GMT -5
I don’t have a problem with it, as long as they have enough sense to have an exemption for people who have real concerns. For example, someone I know is suffering from chronic hives. Her immune system clearly isn’t normal. I can understand why she’s a little hesitant to get vaccinated. No reason she cannot be vaccinated. There are a vaninishing small number of contraindications to vaccination. The only clear cut on is allergy to the components. I’m scared does not count
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 14, 2021 12:47:38 GMT -5
if they do that, and are found out, Americans will be banned from Europe. again.
edit: by and large, the anti-vax folks also seem to think 'Merica is the greatest place on Earth and Europe is a communist shithole. so, yeah. not likely they will be going, anyway.
That was my thought too. It's just more rules for those already following the rules. The idiots keep skipping through life. Our HR person finally got it but not bad enough I think she'll get vaccinated. I would bet dollars to donuts that the AVERAGE Trump voter has traveled less than 50 miles from their birthplace.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 14, 2021 13:40:56 GMT -5
I don’t have a problem with it, as long as they have enough sense to have an exemption for people who have real concerns. For example, someone I know is suffering from chronic hives. Her immune system clearly isn’t normal. I can understand why she’s a little hesitant to get vaccinated. No reason she cannot be vaccinated. There are a vaninishing small number of contraindications to vaccination. The only clear cut on is allergy to the components. I’m scared does not count My kid breaks out in hives every time the wind blows. She got vaccinated with no problem.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 14, 2021 13:55:00 GMT -5
No reason she cannot be vaccinated. There are a vaninishing small number of contraindications to vaccination. The only clear cut on is allergy to the components. I’m scared does not count My kid breaks out in hives every time the wind blows. She got vaccinated with no problem. Yes, there is almost nobody who has an absolute contraindication to the vaccine. The only absolute reason is anaphylaxis. I have yet to see that, or see someone who should not be vaccinated. The risk/benefit is far in favor of the vaccine.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 14, 2021 14:00:47 GMT -5
by about 10:1
what I tell anyone that listens to me is that the vaccine reduces Coronavirus from a serial killer to the common flu. I believe that is accurate.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 14, 2021 14:14:02 GMT -5
Unvaccinated people who contract COVID are 11 times more likely to die from it compared to vaccinated individuals. Imagine if the daily death toll this past month was 150 instead of 1500.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Sept 14, 2021 14:34:38 GMT -5
My very far right cousin posted on Facebook that BIDEN pushed a vaccine that was developed too quickly, that if you follow the SCIENCE the vaccine can’t be any good because it was developed too quickly. Yes, the far right is now pushing the false story that the vaccine was launched during the Biden presidency and therefore must be bad. It’s amazing to me just how easy it is to plant a fake story with the far right - even stories that are easy to disprove just by pulling up video clips that prove the story is fake (like a video clip of Trump bragging about how he did Operation Warp Speed that made a vaccine available at record speed). Whoever said that if you keep repeating a lie it eventually feels like the truth is 100% spot on. The sad part is, many of the anti-VAX idiots on the right are sounding a lot like how the Democrats talked about the vaccine when Trump was still in office. Kamala Harris famously said she wouldn’t take a Trump vaccine even if it got FDA approval.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 14, 2021 14:37:54 GMT -5
My very far right cousin posted on Facebook that BIDEN pushed a vaccine that was developed too quickly, that if you follow the SCIENCE the vaccine can’t be any good because it was developed too quickly. Yes, the far right is now pushing the false story that the vaccine was launched during the Biden presidency and therefore must be bad. It’s amazing to me just how easy it is to plant a fake story with the far right - even stories that are easy to disprove just by pulling up video clips that prove the story is fake (like a video clip of Trump bragging about how he did Operation Warp Speed that made a vaccine available at record speed). Whoever said that if you keep repeating a lie it eventually feels like the truth is 100% spot on. The sad part is, many of the anti-VAX idiots on the right are sounding a lot like how the Democrats talked about the vaccine when Trump was still in office. Kamala Harris famously said she wouldn’t take a Trump vaccine even if it got FDA approval. That is completely inaccurate. Fact check yourself. Anti-vax people aren't the only ones sounding like an idiot right now. "The sad part is " you posting that like it's fact. "The sad part is" apparently that story is famous in certain bubbles? www.snopes.com/fact-check/kamala-harris-refuse-trump-vaccine/
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