Mardi Gras Audrey
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So well rounded, I'm pointless...
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Sept 16, 2021 21:42:54 GMT -5
In fairness, trump was putting pressure on the FDA to just approve it. apnews.com/article/donald-trump-business-mark-meadows-coronavirus-pandemic-0902fbb041b0459e55da86be75b1457aHis own tweets told dr. Hahn to “just get the vaccine out”. You can’t just get the vaccine out. You have to review the data and be sure. So I can see why people would think that the fda may have been pressured . It was trump pressuring them. Do I think you can trust the scientists at the fda? Yes. But do I think you could trust a political appointee who is told he is going to get fired if he doesn’t approve it? Especially when the person telling him that had no background in science or medicine and has deliberately downplayed a major pandemic? It puts the agency in bad spot and it was all done because trump is a narcissist whose ego makes everything (including viruses) about himself
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ripvanwinkle
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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797
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Post by ripvanwinkle on Sept 16, 2021 23:48:25 GMT -5
I attended a lecture back in 2018 where a researcher talked about this. Very very few drugs on the market have "long term side effects" documented because you have to have enough people live long enough on the drug to get it. It's only in I want to say the last 10 years we know that lansoprazole and omeprazole cause Alzheimers. Those are two very common heart burn drugs. How long before that kicks in is still being figured out. So do we abandon all modern medicine until whatever arbitrary threshold people have for satisfactory data is passed? How many would die or have poor quality lives if we applied COVID logic to everything? How much have you benefited medically while unknowingly being unaware of how little is understood? Would you refuse it if you could do it again? For some things now that we know maybe. I'd explore other options before taking those heartburn meds and would likely be panicky now. For things like dying a horrible death with AIDs vs congestive heart failure after a long life? No freaking brainer. To me the COVID vaccine is the latter. I don't want to die on a respirator completely alone because my family aren't allowed in. I'll take my chances with whatever nebulous side effects that may pop up years down the road. I want my kids to be able to live to adulthood. So unless you are demanding decades of research for every single drug you pop in your mouth or procedure you have and refuse if it doesn't meet whatever standards you have for the COVID vaccine put a sock in your righteousness outrage. Very well said. And its the responsibility of all citizens to take care of the common good for all. I wonder if the anti vaccine crowd would have taken this stand if they had lived in 1918 with the Spanish flu if a vaccine was available then. I think not. But we're too self centered now.
If only 20 people die out of 500,000 who take a medicine, I think its worth it. It benefits all. Whats that saying, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few or one. Bidens mandate is right. And I do not like him. I'll give him this one.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 17, 2021 0:07:30 GMT -5
When did you have a president pressuring the FDA to approve a medication before an election to help him win? Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements. You might want to start reading some of the books that are out or coming out soon like Peril. Trump was threatening to fire people if they did not do his will, and according to the book I am now reading, Hahn had plans for if he got fired and how people might resign and delay so things got tested properly. Trump was not at all happy about the FDA testing for 60 days after the second shot. That's not an unrealistic amount of time, but he was really hoping to browbeat everyone into releasing it before the election. I remember that time, but its good to read about the behind the scenes stuff as a refresher.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 17, 2021 6:39:30 GMT -5
Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements. You might want to start reading some of the books that are out or coming out soon like Peril. Trump was threatening to fire people if they did not do his will, and according to the book I am now reading, Hahn had plans for if he got fired and how people might resign and delay so things got tested properly. Trump was not at all happy about the FDA testing for 60 days after the second shot. That's not an unrealistic amount of time, but he was really hoping to browbeat everyone into releasing it before the election. I remember that time, but its good to read about the behind the scenes stuff as a refresher. Come on now, she can't be bothered to actually look something up or read about the subject.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 17, 2021 8:35:19 GMT -5
You might want to start reading some of the books that are out or coming out soon like Peril. Trump was threatening to fire people if they did not do his will, and according to the book I am now reading, Hahn had plans for if he got fired and how people might resign and delay so things got tested properly. Trump was not at all happy about the FDA testing for 60 days after the second shot. That's not an unrealistic amount of time, but he was really hoping to browbeat everyone into releasing it before the election. I remember that time, but its good to read about the behind the scenes stuff as a refresher. Come on now, she can't be bothered to actually look something up or read about the subject. She should though. Not a fan of revisionist/Trumpist history. It was clear even in real time to me that the issue wasn't will the FDA do due diligence. It was a case of will Trump and his administration successfully sabotage that process for his political gain. If you listen to Trump centric news sources they probably never let people know all the people he fired, transferred, or forced to resign because they weren't doing his bidding. It does make me sad though. It means that people I know in RL who don't want to do the vaccine likely consume Trump centric news sources.
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