pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 15, 2021 15:51:15 GMT -5
That's not even remotely the same thing. And you're not going into anything blind. The vaccine has been out for months, so you've had at least that long to "do your research" and it has FDA approval which is not something that's just slapped on pharmaceuticals to make sales. Not to mention all NIH published articles are available FOR FREE through PubMed. mRNA technology goes back to the early 1970s. Most of it has been done in HIV and influenza research but that is what the COVID mRNA is built on. This idea they slapped it together and are hawking it with no prior knowledge of how mRNA vaccines works is mind boggling to me. Corona virus mRNA vaccine work has been around for a long time as well. It just didn't get noticed or a lot of funding because it was "the common cold" so who gives a crap when there are bigger ticket diseases like Ebola or Zika? The fact we got this many vaccines in such a short times shows what happens when you bother to properly fund science. The research was there. It needed the pandemic to achieve lift off. As soon as it came out I started reading papers because I am a huge nerd. A lot of what I read is above my pay grade but there are a lot of summary papers out there that do a good job of boiling it down. If you don't want to do PubMed you can use Google Scholar. You won't likely get as many free articles but damn near everyone on the planet has access to Google. Get on a freaking computer and actually take the time to look if you are worried. This idea they slapped it together and are hawking it with no prior knowledge of how mRNA vaccines works is mind boggling to me. The data and research are there. The fact that it is not all 100% about these particular vaccines does not negate it. For the people who keep shouting "DO YOUR RESEARCH" they sure can't be bothered. Is it because it all comes from the evil liberal elite who couldn't make out of their ivory towers to clearly they are too stupid to understand the risks involved? They are just hawking it because Biden told them to? . You know how full of s*** this is. Ask them that if a cure for their(or even better, their child's) untreatable cancer suddenly became available overnight, would they take it? How many do you think would have the same objections? this is full of crap, these objections. Never before in history has a drug been approved with so much data on its side effects. 200 million people have been vaccinated in the US alone. Most drugs are approved with tens of thousands(or less) of people having been studied, and we do not know the long term side effects of them either, because, if we wait that long, no drug would ever be approved, and lots of people would suffer and die. These objections are not serious.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2021 16:00:44 GMT -5
the argument falls apart on SO MANY LEVELS.
I would like, FOR ONCE, for someone- ANYONE- (Biden?) to just ask an audience how many people in the audience have NEVER been vaccinated. and then pick them out one at a time and ask them if they never had a childhood vaccine for polio, rabies, and small pox.
we don't wait decades to show that vaccines work. we wait the gestation of the disease in question. that is the measure. long term effects? generally the long term effects of a vaccine are NIL. but we would rather dither and risk our lives? what kind of a stupid, ass backward nation have we become?
seriously- I doubt there is this much doubt in Equatorial Guinea- a place which I routinely ridicule because the president robs the country blind while 60% of the nation has no potable water. is that where we are going? really?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2021 16:06:57 GMT -5
When was the last time you ever heard a politician talking smack about a life-saving medicine or therapy that was going through FDA approval? This is unprecedented behavior that politicized things that should not have been politicized. They knew exactly what they were doing and got exactly what they wanted from this. Unprecedented political behavior is a president suggesting people inject themselves with bleach while ignoring the most prominent infectious disease doctors in the country. ...one of whom was instrumental during the AIDS epidemic.
in a just, sensible, society he would get a congressional medal of honor. instead THIS asshat got one\/
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 15, 2021 16:18:59 GMT -5
They didn't wait decades to see if ART was going to pass muster and know every single side effect humanly possible either. Time was of the essence. Now that people have lived long enough to see old age we know ART therapy can cause congestive heart failure. Yet if you presented someone with the choice of dying from AIDs or living to be 75 with congestive heart failure there really isn't much room for debate. With COVID I don't know what is going to happen to me. I got lucky, my daughter got lucky when we had it. I very much like being alive so if the COVID shot can prevent THAT then I am good with it. I will worry about any "side effects" when I am old and grey. Right now I am mainly motivated to make it that far. My grandmother shares the same sentiments about the Salk vaccine which is another one that wasn't "properly tested" (whatever the fuck that means to these people) before it was released. She saw what polio did to people. She remembers how terrified she was of letting my dad swim in a public pool. She told me she would have walked through hot coals barefoot to get my father vaccinated because when you've seen what these diseases can do you don't sit around and debate. You do what you gotta do to protect yourself/your kids from that fate. Would that people think that way now. While modern medicine is a miracle I think we've become spoiled and over privileged. It smacks of entitlement and arrogance that we have the luxury of sitting around to debate what the word "is" means. I'm starting to think Fuck it send the leftovers to other countries who would give their right arm to be vaccinated right now "side effects" be damned. Let's REALLY put it to the test and go full on mother nature with COVID. If we are really that awesome we shouldn't even need the vaccine or modern medicine. Let the other countries have the vaccines.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2021 16:26:18 GMT -5
the vaccinated HAVE HERD IMMUNITY. that is just it.
the unvaccinated are big proponents of herd immunity WITHOUT vaccine. let them have it. we can watch them die, I guess. please make it quick, so a new strain of the virus doesn't develop. thanks.
I feel like Dickens right now. but I have totally had it.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 15, 2021 16:29:53 GMT -5
They didn't wait decades to see if ART was going to pass muster and know every single side effect humanly possible either. Time was of the essence. Now that people have lived long enough to see old age we know ART therapy can cause congestive heart failure. Yet if you presented someone with the choice of dying from AIDs or living to be 75 with congestive heart failure there really isn't much room for debate. With COVID I don't know what is going to happen to me. I got lucky, my daughter got lucky when we had it. I very much like being alive so if the COVID shot can prevent THAT then I am good with it. I will worry about any "side effects" when I am old and grey. Right now I am mainly motivated to make it that far. My grandmother shares the same sentiments about the Salk vaccine which is another one that wasn't "properly tested" (whatever the fuck that means to these people) before it was released. She saw what polio did to people. She remembers how terrified she was of letting my dad swim in a public pool. She told me she would have walked through hot coals barefoot to get my father vaccinated because when you've seen what these diseases can do you don't sit around and debate. You do what you gotta do to protect yourself/your kids from that fate. Would that people think that way now. While modern medicine is a miracle I think we've become spoiled and over privileged. It smacks of entitlement and arrogance that we have the luxury of sitting around to debate what the word "is" means. I'm starting to think Fuck it send the leftovers to other countries who would give their right arm to be vaccinated right now "side effects" be damned. Let's REALLY put it to the test and go full on mother nature with COVID. If we are really that awesome we shouldn't even need the vaccine or modern medicine. Let the other countries have the vaccines. x 1000. You are on a roll. In Critical Care Medicine, you worry about what will kill you today, and worry about tomorrow's issue tomorrow. I started my career at the onset of the AIDS epidemic. You are 100% correct. People were protesting to get early access to new therapies, even before studies were finished. people who died would have given their right arm to be alive with congestive heart failure right now. Why have we even passed "right to try" laws if we are so worried about long term side effects?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 15, 2021 16:36:51 GMT -5
They didn't wait decades to see if ART was going to pass muster and know every single side effect humanly possible either. Time was of the essence. Now that people have lived long enough to see old age we know ART therapy can cause congestive heart failure. Yet if you presented someone with the choice of dying from AIDs or living to be 75 with congestive heart failure there really isn't much room for debate. With COVID I don't know what is going to happen to me. I got lucky, my daughter got lucky when we had it. I very much like being alive so if the COVID shot can prevent THAT then I am good with it. I will worry about any "side effects" when I am old and grey. Right now I am mainly motivated to make it that far. My grandmother shares the same sentiments about the Salk vaccine which is another one that wasn't "properly tested" (whatever the fuck that means to these people) before it was released. She saw what polio did to people. She remembers how terrified she was of letting my dad swim in a public pool. She told me she would have walked through hot coals barefoot to get my father vaccinated because when you've seen what these diseases can do you don't sit around and debate. You do what you gotta do to protect yourself/your kids from that fate. Would that people think that way now. While modern medicine is a miracle I think we've become spoiled and over privileged. It smacks of entitlement and arrogance that we have the luxury of sitting around to debate what the word "is" means. I'm starting to think Fuck it send the leftovers to other countries who would give their right arm to be vaccinated right now "side effects" be damned. Let's REALLY put it to the test and go full on mother nature with COVID. If we are really that awesome we shouldn't even need the vaccine or modern medicine. Let the other countries have the vaccines. x 1000. You are on a roll. In Critical Care Medicine, you worry about what will kill you today, and worry about tomorrow's issue tomorrow. I started my career at the onset of the AIDS epidemic. You are 100% correct. People were protesting to get early access to new therapies, even before studies were finished. people who died would have given their right arm to be alive with congestive heart failure right now. Why have we even passed "right to try" laws if we are so worried about long term side effects? OT but my daughter's favorite band is Queen. I've often thought about Mercury and if he'd contracted it just a few years later.😪
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 15, 2021 16:37:10 GMT -5
My very far right cousin posted on Facebook that BIDEN pushed a vaccine that was developed too quickly, that if you follow the SCIENCE the vaccine can’t be any good because it was developed too quickly. Yes, the far right is now pushing the false story that the vaccine was launched during the Biden presidency and therefore must be bad. It’s amazing to me just how easy it is to plant a fake story with the far right - even stories that are easy to disprove just by pulling up video clips that prove the story is fake (like a video clip of Trump bragging about how he did Operation Warp Speed that made a vaccine available at record speed). Whoever said that if you keep repeating a lie it eventually feels like the truth is 100% spot on. The sad part is, many of the anti-VAX idiots on the right are sounding a lot like how the Democrats talked about the vaccine when Trump was still in office. Kamala Harris famously said she wouldn’t take a Trump vaccine even if it got FDA approval. There is no Trump vaccine. Trump was trying to rush vaccines through to approval with minimal testing. He tried to get various drugs approved for use for Covid simply on the recommendation of someone he knew. Not surprising she would not trust his process.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2021 17:05:34 GMT -5
They didn't wait decades to see if ART was going to pass muster and know every single side effect humanly possible either. Time was of the essence. Now that people have lived long enough to see old age we know ART therapy can cause congestive heart failure. Yet if you presented someone with the choice of dying from AIDs or living to be 75 with congestive heart failure there really isn't much room for debate. With COVID I don't know what is going to happen to me. I got lucky, my daughter got lucky when we had it. I very much like being alive so if the COVID shot can prevent THAT then I am good with it. I will worry about any "side effects" when I am old and grey. Right now I am mainly motivated to make it that far. My grandmother shares the same sentiments about the Salk vaccine which is another one that wasn't "properly tested" (whatever the fuck that means to these people) before it was released. She saw what polio did to people. She remembers how terrified she was of letting my dad swim in a public pool. She told me she would have walked through hot coals barefoot to get my father vaccinated because when you've seen what these diseases can do you don't sit around and debate. You do what you gotta do to protect yourself/your kids from that fate. Would that people think that way now. While modern medicine is a miracle I think we've become spoiled and over privileged. It smacks of entitlement and arrogance that we have the luxury of sitting around to debate what the word "is" means. I'm starting to think Fuck it send the leftovers to other countries who would give their right arm to be vaccinated right now "side effects" be damned. Let's REALLY put it to the test and go full on mother nature with COVID. If we are really that awesome we shouldn't even need the vaccine or modern medicine. Let the other countries have the vaccines. x 1000. You are on a roll. In Critical Care Medicine, you worry about what will kill you today, and worry about tomorrow's issue tomorrow. I started my career at the onset of the AIDS epidemic. You are 100% correct. People were protesting to get early access to new therapies, even before studies were finished. people who died would have given their right arm to be alive with congestive heart failure right now. Why have we even passed "right to try" laws if we are so worried about long term side effects? the difference?
them were LEEBURRELS!
and Reagan fought them all the way on it.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 15, 2021 17:13:43 GMT -5
x 1000. You are on a roll. In Critical Care Medicine, you worry about what will kill you today, and worry about tomorrow's issue tomorrow. I started my career at the onset of the AIDS epidemic. You are 100% correct. People were protesting to get early access to new therapies, even before studies were finished. people who died would have given their right arm to be alive with congestive heart failure right now. Why have we even passed "right to try" laws if we are so worried about long term side effects? OT but my daughter's favorite band is Queen. I've often thought about Mercury and if he'd contracted it just a few years later.😪 She has good taste.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 15, 2021 17:21:37 GMT -5
I attended a lecture back in 2018 where a researcher talked about this. Very very few drugs on the market have "long term side effects" documented because you have to have enough people live long enough on the drug to get it.
It's only in I want to say the last 10 years we know that lansoprazole and omeprazole cause Alzheimers. Those are two very common heart burn drugs. How long before that kicks in is still being figured out.
So do we abandon all modern medicine until whatever arbitrary threshold people have for satisfactory data is passed? How many would die or have poor quality lives if we applied COVID logic to everything?
How much have you benefited medically while unknowingly being unaware of how little is understood? Would you refuse it if you could do it again?
For some things now that we know maybe. I'd explore other options before taking those heartburn meds and would likely be panicky now.
For things like dying a horrible death with AIDs vs congestive heart failure after a long life? No freaking brainer.
To me the COVID vaccine is the latter. I don't want to die on a respirator completely alone because my family aren't allowed in. I'll take my chances with whatever nebulous side effects that may pop up years down the road. I want my kids to be able to live to adulthood.
So unless you are demanding decades of research for every single drug you pop in your mouth or procedure you have and refuse if it doesn't meet whatever standards you have for the COVID vaccine put a sock in your righteousness outrage.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 15, 2021 18:31:00 GMT -5
Oh I thought of another one. We actually have no clue how anti depressants or anti psychotics truly work because we don't have the technology to fully analyze the brain.
We assume we know how and why they work based on what limited knowledge we have but if we were going to treat them like the COVID vaccine every single one of them should be pulled off the market now because we just aren't 100% sure it's safe. We really should wait till technology gets to the point we know everything there is to know about the brain. No matter how long it takes.
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
And the blood brain barrier? WAY more porous than thought possible. Untold amounts of drugs have been trickling into our brains with unknown consequences because nobody looked. Should all drugs be pulled until we know 100%?
You really want to go down the wormhole it's scary. There is NOTHING we are "100% sure about".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2021 18:49:52 GMT -5
Oh I thought of another one. We actually have no clue how anti depressants or anti psychotics truly work because we don't have the technology to fully analyze the brain. We assume we know how and why they work based on what limited knowledge we have but if we were going to treat them like the COVID vaccine every single one of them should be pulled off the market now because we just aren't 100% sure it's safe. We really should wait till technology gets to the point we know everything there is to know about the brain. No matter how long it takes. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? it would be, if we didn't all know that the safety of the medication has nothing to do with it.
it has to do with the issue of "who you trust". clearly, the 40% would rather trust a witch doctor who pontificates about the disease consequences of dream dates with the devil than a epidemiologist with creds that extend all the way back to the REAGAN PRESIDENCY. because....science?
as I said before, I have gone from my standard sympathy, to puzzlement, to annoyance, to something resembling hatred of these folks in the space of 18 months. but hey, at least I know I am still alive and changing. that's nice, I guess.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 15, 2021 19:09:45 GMT -5
I know. I also know I've been constantly challenged to present the facts. So I did.
The fact my facts don't come from the same reality as theirs is not my problem.
I have also stopped caring about Covidiots.
However I do still enjoy poking people and watching them twist themselves into pretzels in order to fit my argument into their viewpoint.
The mental gymnastics can be truly astounding to behold.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2021 19:29:53 GMT -5
breathtaking, I am sure.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 16, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -5
as I said before, I have gone from my standard sympathy, to puzzlement, to annoyance, to something resembling hatred of these folks in the space of 18 months. but hey, at least I know I am still alive and changing. that's nice, I guess.
How often do you ask yourself if this change in yourself is a lingering after-effect of electing Trump? The man is an expert at stirring up anger and deadening sympathy. It's not just folks that voted for him who have been coarsened by him. Anyone who had to deal with his constant stream of hateful nonsense, or that of his followers, or that of his copy-cats, has been hardened
After five years of him on the stage, I'm having real trouble remembering how to act. I also seem to have forgotten how to be kind, and why it matters. I'm also having difficulty remembering what manners are, or how to say anything gently. I do not like this change in myself.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Sept 16, 2021 15:18:55 GMT -5
as I said before, I have gone from my standard sympathy, to puzzlement, to annoyance, to something resembling hatred of these folks in the space of 18 months. but hey, at least I know I am still alive and changing. that's nice, I guess.
How often do you ask yourself if this change in yourself is a lingering after-effect of electing Trump? The man is an expert at stirring up anger and deadening sympathy. It's not just folks that voted for him who have been coarsened by him. Anyone who had to deal with his constant stream of hateful nonsense, or that of his followers, or that of his copy-cats, has been hardened
After five years of him on the stage, I'm having real trouble remembering how to act. I also seem to have forgotten how to be kind, and why it matters. I'm also having difficulty remembering what manners are, or how to say anything gently. I do not like this change in myself.
Wow this so succinctly explains how I've been feeling. I'd venture to say that unfortunately this is likely the true Trump Derangement Syndrome.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 16, 2021 15:25:16 GMT -5
as I said before, I have gone from my standard sympathy, to puzzlement, to annoyance, to something resembling hatred of these folks in the space of 18 months. but hey, at least I know I am still alive and changing. that's nice, I guess.
How often do you ask yourself if this change in yourself is a lingering after-effect of electing Trump? The man is an expert at stirring up anger and deadening sympathy. It's not just folks that voted for him who have been coarsened by him. Anyone who had to deal with his constant stream of hateful nonsense, or that of his followers, or that of his copy-cats, has been hardened
After five years of him on the stage, I'm having real trouble remembering how to act. I also seem to have forgotten how to be kind, and why it matters. I'm also having difficulty remembering what manners are, or how to say anything gently. I do not like this change in myself.
14 years in research here. I had to be REAL careful telling people what I worked in and where I worked because good God. I am horrified that that many people have no clue how HIV is actually transmitted and are probably out there having sex right now. And if I had a dime for every time someone told me I am part of the problem I wouldn't be working this poop job. After a point you start to wonder if maybe we should let natural selection take it's course. That we ever cured small pox or put a man on the moon astounds me. The scientists who gave us all these vaccines in mere months should be hailed as heroes not part of a liberal elite conspiracy to give you AIDS or let Bill Gates track you (won't they be shocked when they learn about cell phones!?). I have the upmost respect for those who developed these vaccines. The general public at this point can go lick door knobs.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Sept 16, 2021 15:53:59 GMT -5
When was the last time you ever heard a politician talking smack about a life-saving medicine or therapy that was going through FDA approval? This is unprecedented behavior that politicized things that should not have been politicized. They knew exactly what they were doing and got exactly what they wanted from this. When did you have a president pressuring the FDA to approve a medication before an election to help him win? Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 16, 2021 15:57:57 GMT -5
When did you have a president pressuring the FDA to approve a medication before an election to help him win? Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements. Please post a link where any Democrat ever said that the FDA didn't know how/wasn't doing their job right. I'm intrigued.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 16, 2021 16:18:50 GMT -5
When did you have a president pressuring the FDA to approve a medication before an election to help him win? Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements. Continue to live in your fantasy land where Trump didn't do anything wrong and both sides did bad things. No president has pressured the FDA to approve a drug before studies were complete, none. If you think that, PROVE IT. Trump out and out admitted he needed the approval to get re-elected. It was all about him. And no, the Democrats did not criticize the FDA. Show the exact quotes where they did what you claim. And no, they are not "my" politicians. I am not a registered democrat, and I have voted Republican many times. I am just disgusted at what the republican party has degenerated to. An anti-science, no nothing, racist cabal of Trump worshippers. You might as well own it. Physicians and scientists have been entirely consistent in the recommendations around the vaccine. It is the Republican politicians and the right wing media who have been sowing doubt and muddling the waters, even calling for Fauci to be arrested. No, the situation we are in lands at the feet of Trump and teh republicans. You refuse to acknowledge reality.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Sept 16, 2021 16:36:18 GMT -5
When did you have a president pressuring the FDA to approve a medication before an election to help him win? Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements. Asking Trump to stop pressuring the FDA IS indicating that you trust them to "do their work". It is literally the opposite of what you are saying. Is this a joke?
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imawino
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 22:58:16 GMT -5
Posts: 5,359
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Post by imawino on Sept 16, 2021 16:37:20 GMT -5
Pulmonary, do you honestly think this is the first time a powerful politician has tried to put pressure on the FDA? The FDA’s job is to thoroughly and transparently determine if a new drug treatment is safe, no matter who is gunning for it. They’ve been doing that job very well for a very long time. The FDA is made up of civil servants, who are given more protection than 90% of the rest of us, and are perfectly capable of standing up to a president that will be gone long before they will. Your politicians could’ve said “let the FDA do their work”. Instead they talked about transparency and doing extra testing. By doing that they basically made the case that the FDA could not be trusted to do their job. And then your guy gets in, and suddenly the same people we’ve been told for months couldn’t possibly be trusted to do their job must be trusted implicitly. And the tens of millions of people who have safely gotten the vaccine only counts if you believe that the authorities are properly reporting and investigating adverse events and not sweeping it under the carpet Is it logical to doubt the vaccine because of all the shenanigans? Of course not. But we both know that an off a lot of people make very irrational decisions, and that needs to be taken into account when making public statements. Please post a link where any Democrat ever said that the FDA didn't know how/wasn't doing their job right. I'm intrigued. It's probably in the "famous" Kamala video where she refuses to take an FDA approved vaccine. So, check QAnon.
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Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
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Post by Tiny on Sept 16, 2021 17:06:30 GMT -5
The thing that gets me is that people will happily consume various "healthy" concoctions of vitamins or "weightloss aids" or "cleanse" things even though non of them have been approved by the FDA (and people have died or had other complications when the product interacted with their other actual medications - from taking them).
But, omg, a vaccine!!! oh no we can't put that in our bodies! It's dangerous!
Is it because it's an injection? Is it because it doesn't come with sexy woman or man telling them it's "good for you"? Is it because one's friends/relatives are NOT claiming how great it feels to be doing their part to keep themselves alive (and their fellow humans as well)?
My gosh the "medications" and "vitamins" and what not people purchase and consume without any sort of proof that the product won't actually HURT them - based on the "it's healthy!" on the label.
But, take a vaccine?? that's been tested and just needs the final seal of approval? Oh, no.. too dangerous.
Part of me would love if interviewers would ask what OTC "health" product the person who is refusing the vaccine are taking. Those daily mega doses of Vitamin C or E or whatever is the current "it prevents cancer, aging, and death" vitamin or supplements.
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pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 16, 2021 17:14:41 GMT -5
Saw someone today. Not vaccinated, but considering bariatric surgery. Asked why she is not vaccinated, she needs more time to consider it. I asked how long is long enough, she thought about 2 years. In 2 years, we will be done with this, because we will likely have enough immune people. This is why we need a mandate.
And OMG, she is willing to do bariatric surgery(with its risks), but is unsure of the vaccine? Are you kidding me?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,197
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 16, 2021 17:23:35 GMT -5
The thing that gets me is that people will happily consume various "healthy" concoctions of vitamins or "weightloss aids" or "cleanse" things even though non of them have been approved by the FDA (and people have died or had other complications when the product interacted with their other actual medications - from taking them). But, omg, a vaccine!!! oh no we can't put that in our bodies! It's dangerous! Is it because it's an injection? Is it because it doesn't come with sexy woman or man telling them it's "good for you"? Is it because one's friends/relatives are NOT claiming how great it feels to be doing their part to keep themselves alive (and their fellow humans as well)? My gosh the "medications" and "vitamins" and what not people purchase and consume without any sort of proof that the product won't actually HURT them - based on the "it's healthy!" on the label. But, take a vaccine?? that's been tested and just needs the final seal of approval? Oh, no.. too dangerous. Part of me would love if interviewers would ask what OTC "health" product the person who is refusing the vaccine are taking. Those daily mega doses of Vitamin C or E or whatever is the current "it prevents cancer, aging, and death" vitamin or supplements. Accidentally taking more than the recommended dosage of aspirin or Tylenol is far more likely to cause severe side effects than the COVID vaccine. Yet Tylenol is OTC and people pop it like tic tacs. Yeah our ability to properly assess risk is very poor.
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dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
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Favorite Drink: Laphroig
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Post by dondub on Sept 16, 2021 18:16:55 GMT -5
Looks like his history of wrongful action was intact. Thus, that he was wrong is no surprise.
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dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
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Post by dondub on Sept 16, 2021 18:17:06 GMT -5
Looks like his history of wrongful action was intact. Thus, that he was wrong is no surprise.
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andi9899
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 6, 2011 10:22:29 GMT -5
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 16, 2021 19:40:29 GMT -5
That was a year ago when Trump was trying to rush it through to get reelected. I don't blame anyone for that at the time. Also, until very recently he was a federal employee. He's vaccinated.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
Senior Member
So well rounded, I'm pointless...
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:49:31 GMT -5
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Sept 16, 2021 19:41:23 GMT -5
If you have the time, this movie is a great one about the development of herceptin and how patients and their families were begging Genentech for the medication. m.imdb.com/title/tt1614992/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_plCan u imagine if these people were like the covidiots? “Let’s sit here waiting for people to die of breast cancer because we don’t know what the long term effects are. Never mind that they will be dead before we get data of years worth of use yet. I am special and won’t get the virus because... reasons” The whole “I’m still researching it” drives me crazy. Yes, you random person have more information than the scientists and doctors working on this. You, in your basement with your computer and GED, surely gave more knowledge about these things than anyone in the CDC, FDA, or other science professionals. I’m sure you’ll get the “truth”
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