Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[laterbloomer]

Oct 28, 2022 16:25:32 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

Who is going to grow our food, deliver it to the srores, stock the shelves, man the gas pumps, tale care of the sick and dying, build our houses, make our household goods, ect.

Nobody. They all want to be internet millionaires.

People that get paid properly. They don't ALL plan on being influences.

[giramomma]

Oct 28, 2022 16:19:57 GMT -5 nidena said:

What isn't shared in that article is that many of us don't want to be penalized with lower wages just because we can work only part-time.

All labor hours being filled with equal labor, the difference between part-time and full-time should just be the # of hours worked and not the rate paid per hour.  If folx CAN or do work FT, then they might also get benefits but both should receive the same rate.  Instead, what I see are those who work FT getting paid, say, $18/hr and those who work PT, getting $14/hr but they're doing the same work.

I don't see that around here.

What I do see is that kids under 18 are paid less than adults for doing the same job.

A very popular food franchise (they have 700 stores, mostly in the midwest), pays kids $14/hour to man the register, clean booths, run food out to cars. Adults are paid up to $19/hour to the exact same thing.

Why should a 16 year old or 17 year old get paid less than an 18 year old or 40 year old for doing the same work?

[giramomma]

Oct 28, 2022 16:25:32 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

Who is going to grow our food, deliver it to the srores, stock the shelves, man the gas pumps, tale care of the sick and dying, build our houses, make our household goods, ect.

Nobody. They all want to be internet millionaires.

Let's start with parents telling their kids that manufacturing, construction, and any other trades are a fine choice. Or even going into retail could be OK, if there's a way for you to work your way up.

Instead, many of these jobs are not considered dignified work anymore. The only work that is dignified is work that one can get with a four year college degree.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm pissed that when the school said go to college or you'll be a garbage man they didn't tell me how much they earn and that it's a city job complete with city benefits, a pension and I could have retired before I'm 60.

It's also unionized didn't mention that either.

Sure it can be physically demanding but it's a pretty decent trade off.

Sewer plant workers make a shit load of money too. Pun intended.

[giramomma]

Oct 28, 2022 17:13:40 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 28, 2022 16:25:32 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

Who is going to grow our food, deliver it to the srores, stock the shelves, man the gas pumps, tale care of the sick and dying, build our houses, make our household goods, ect.

Nobody. They all want to be internet millionaires.

People that get paid properly. They don't ALL plan on being influences.

Or people that just need a j-o-b. I'll need a part time job after I retire. Teaching likely won't be enough. Stocking shelves looks really appealing right now.

And as for farming, if our lawmakers would start putting resources into rural areas, maybe folks wouldn't leave. Why in 2022 would you live in a place where you can't get internet or if you can, it's really bad? If we want smaller family farms, why not figure out what it takes to promote that, instead of approving giant farms of 16K cows...At 8K cows, the cow shit is literally contaminating the water. Would you want to drink contaminated well water?

[jerseygirl]

Chick fillet is having success with 3 day work weeks. Nurses often work 3-4 12 hr shifts and many like this.
But thinking many fast food places don’t give their workers consistent hours or days. So maybe consistency is the key and not the fewer days?
Our older DGS has every other Friday off by working slightly longe on other days. He loves the 3 day weekends

www.upworthy.com/chick-fil-a-three-day-work-week

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2022 0:41:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

But thinking many fast food places don’t give their workers consistent hours or days. So maybe consistency is the key and not the fewer days?

Yeah, I was pretty horrified when I read this a few years ago.  You're "on call" and expected to come in when they call you and go home after 2 or 3 hours if business is slow.  Makes perfect business sense but people are not widgets.  Not only is it hard on your personal life but it makes it impossible to take on a second job to pull in extra money.

[giramomma]

Maybe this is also location dependent.

DS worked at Dominos for a few months. Pay was poor (12/hour). However, 30 hours a week was full time employment, where he qualified for a 401K and health insurance.

His manager was also pretty nice. DS could command his own hours, and pretty much his schedule.

 

[TheOtherMe]

Oldest great nephew works at a fast food place flipping burger (not McD's).  No contact with public.  He's been working 39.5 hours per week for about a year.  

He is saving some of it to help pay for his college.  He also bought himself a new to him car.  Of course, he is now mortified because he has to drive his freshman sister to school.

At his job, the kids are not allowed to work OT, so the cutoff is 39.5 hours per week.  

I don't think there was ever a time in my life where I would have taken a job where I could be sent home after 2 or 3 hours and still be on call.  That's a horrible job.  If a person has young kids, how do you arrange day care?

[teen persuasion]

Oct 28, 2022 16:19:57 GMT -5 nidena said:

What isn't shared in that article is that many of us don't want to be penalized with lower wages just because we can work only part-time.

All labor hours being filled with equal labor, the difference between part-time and full-time should just be the # of hours worked and not the rate paid per hour.  If folx CAN or do work FT, then they might also get benefits but both should receive the same rate.  Instead, what I see are those who work FT getting paid, say, $18/hr and those who work PT, getting $14/hr but they're doing the same work.

Or, our positions are deliberately part-time and hourly to avoid paying for holiday or sick time.  And offer almost no benefits.  Raises are few and far between, mostly as state min wage forces them - pretty soon min wage will creep up to my wage, despite starting at 150% of min years ago.

DS4 told his boss he's looking for other work, to give boss time to hire a replacement and DS4 time to train them.  Not only haven't they found anyone to hire, a part-timer gave 2 weeks notice last week.  DS4 is tired of 50  hour weeks of manual labor in an unheated building w/ no bathroom, for a disorganized small employer.  He's running the feed and fertilizer mixing and bagging mostly by himself (occasional half day assistant, not paying attention enough to work alone), pacing his cycles to what he's learned is typical for a season.  But he gets frustrated when the storefront sends him customers for large orders he had no idea were needed - because boss forgot to tell him they'd called ahead, or boss wants to make the sale on the spot and just assumes DS4 has the stock without checking.  If/when DS4 gets fed up enough to walk out, boss is up a creek with no one to work in the warehouse.

[busymom]

I was pleasantly surprised that our local school district has brought back the classes where the students build a house, which they discontinued several years ago.  They're doing it a bit differently this year.  They used to purchase a lot within our district, and the kids would go work on the site.  Now, they're building a one-level house on school property, a smaller one, and when it's completed it will be moved to it's final sitel.  Nice to see that the district has figured out the value of teaching kids the building trades once again.  I was one of the parents who was NOT happy when they stopped the program when the teacher running it retired.

[billisonboard]

Oct 29, 2022 10:41:50 GMT -5 busymom said:

I was pleasantly surprised that our local school district has brought back the classes where the students build a house, which they discontinued several years ago.  They're doing it a bit differently this year.  They used to purchase a lot within our district, and the kids would go work on the site.  Now, they're building a one-level house on school property, a smaller one, and when it's completed it will be moved to it's final sitel.  Nice to see that the district has figured out the value of teaching kids the building trades once again.  I was one of the parents who was NOT happy when they stopped the program when the teacher running it retired.

You indicate that the teacher running the program retired. It is my understanding that it is very difficult to find individuals who are able, willing, and qualified to run such a program. Perhaps the district didn't decide there was no value in the classes but struggled to find a person to make it happen.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Oct 29, 2022 11:01:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Oct 29, 2022 10:41:50 GMT -5 busymom said:

I was pleasantly surprised that our local school district has brought back the classes where the students build a house, which they discontinued several years ago.  They're doing it a bit differently this year.  They used to purchase a lot within our district, and the kids would go work on the site.  Now, they're building a one-level house on school property, a smaller one, and when it's completed it will be moved to it's final sitel.  Nice to see that the district has figured out the value of teaching kids the building trades once again.  I was one of the parents who was NOT happy when they stopped the program when the teacher running it retired.

You indicate that the teacher running the program retired. It is my understanding that it is very difficult to find individuals who are able, willing, and qualified to run such a program. Perhaps the district didn't decide there was no value in the classes but struggled to find a person to make it happen.

And that thing from the legislative groups about standardized math, reading, and science test scores being the sole measurement of academic success.

[CCL]

Oct 29, 2022 6:39:18 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Oct 29, 2022 0:41:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

But thinking many fast food places don’t give their workers consistent hours or days. So maybe consistency is the key and not the fewer days?

Yeah, I was pretty horrified when I read this a few years ago.  You're "on call" and expected to come in when they call you and go home after 2 or 3 hours if business is slow.  Makes perfect business sense but people are not widgets.  Not only is it hard on your personal life but it makes it impossible to take on a second job to pull in extra money.

I learned a long time ago that "flexible hours" means flexible for THEM, not you.

[Opti]

Oct 29, 2022 0:41:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Chick fillet is having success with 3 day work weeks. Nurses often work 3-4 12 hr shifts and many like this.
But thinking many fast food places don’t give their workers consistent hours or days. So maybe consistency is the key and not the fewer days?
Our older DGS has every other Friday off by working slightly longe on other days. He loves the 3 day weekends

www.upworthy.com/chick-fil-a-three-day-work-week

I think 13 to 14 hr days on your feet is bad. Perhaps younger people can do it, but I think while the attendance might be there in the short term, in the long term it will get worse. If you get a foot, back, or leg related injury due to standing so much, you won't be able to come back to work very quickly if ever. 4 hour shifts or less would be the starting point I would think as there is not much back office not standing work to parcel out in fast food.

[billisonboard]

Oct 29, 2022 12:32:15 GMT -5 CCL said:

Oct 29, 2022 6:39:18 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Yeah, I was pretty horrified when I read this a few years ago.  You're "on call" and expected to come in when they call you and go home after 2 or 3 hours if business is slow.  Makes perfect business sense but people are not widgets.  Not only is it hard on your personal life but it makes it impossible to take on a second job to pull in extra money.

I learned a long time ago that "flexible hours" means flexible for THEM, not you.

The Naval Reserve gave me a 7 month probationary contract to play recruiter. At the end they told me I passed. I told them that they didn't. They were not happy.

[stillmovingforward]

Sept 14, 2022 10:17:59 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 10, 2022 18:48:46 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I was trying to hire another engineer. High end of the money scale and nothing special as far as skills beyond 'can you talk about manufacturing?'. I got less than 20 applicants over 2 months. And only 2 were worth interviewing with barely half the skills I requested. *sigh* It's going to be a long year.

This is really random, but can I pm you? I'd like to pick your brain a little bit regarding my work.

Yes, you may. Sorry, I've been off the boards a while.

[teen persuasion]

Oct 29, 2022 10:41:50 GMT -5 busymom said:

I was pleasantly surprised that our local school district has brought back the classes where the students build a house, which they discontinued several years ago.  They're doing it a bit differently this year.  They used to purchase a lot within our district, and the kids would go work on the site.  Now, they're building a one-level house on school property, a smaller one, and when it's completed it will be moved to it's final sitel.  Nice to see that the district has figured out the value of teaching kids the building trades once again.  I was one of the parents who was NOT happy when they stopped the program when the teacher running it retired.

This is what DS5 is doing in BOCES - building trades.  They spend half the school day at their home school for the required classes + specials they can fit in (he is in art and orchestra, and indirectly in jazz chorus, on top of Eng, Econ/PIG, PE) then get bussed to the 2 county BOCES campus.  Junior year (afternoons) they did basic framing, roofing, flooring, etc., in one half of the house.  Senior year (mornings) they work on the half of the house with more complicated systems (bath & kitchen).

They get a bit of math & science credit for their BOCES work, but by placing it in the upper grades the kids have already gotten their language requirements out of the way (start in 7th grade), health, and if accelerated in math/science they can have those basics out of the way, too, or carry one by dropping a music/art.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 28, 2022 16:30:13 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Oct 28, 2022 13:28:54 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I am thinking about it.  I think it's something I can do from home, and I wind up doing a lot of this sort of stuff for myself.  If I can wind up with additional perks for doing this professionally, all the better for us.  TBH, it's not so much about the money but the perks.

As long as it doesn't interfere with your future travel that sounds great!  That's what would keep me form doing something similar- I'm done with trying to figure out how to allocate a limited number of vacation days.

Interesting Planet Money podcast on the unexpected impacts of working from home- a large number of women who HAD jobs that allowed it hated it because they were trying to do their jobs with kids running around, feeling like they were short-changing the job and the kids.  I suppose that with schools opening, closing, opening again and day care business probably closed, they didn't have reliable child care.  Having to supervise the kids' home schooling wouldn't help.

It does sound like a good opportunity.  However, there are large chunks of my life where we travel and I wonder if it is fair to commit to something like this when I know we are going to be gone.  

[Ryan]

Oct 28, 2022 20:39:13 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Oct 28, 2022 16:19:57 GMT -5 nidena said:

What isn't shared in that article is that many of us don't want to be penalized with lower wages just because we can work only part-time.

All labor hours being filled with equal labor, the difference between part-time and full-time should just be the # of hours worked and not the rate paid per hour.  If folx CAN or do work FT, then they might also get benefits but both should receive the same rate.  Instead, what I see are those who work FT getting paid, say, $18/hr and those who work PT, getting $14/hr but they're doing the same work.

I don't see that around here.

What I do see is that kids under 18 are paid less than adults for doing the same job.

A very popular food franchise (they have 700 stores, mostly in the midwest), pays kids $14/hour to man the register, clean booths, run food out to cars. Adults are paid up to $19/hour to the exact same thing.

Why should a 16 year old or 17 year old get paid less than an 18 year old or 40 year old for doing the same work?

I think about this all the time.  I have 3 kids that are very close to being able to work, but unsure if they actually will for a lot of reasons:

• Like you mention, I think back at my time working at restaurants when I was younger and it drove me nuts how they were so open about the gap in pay.  I was a senior cook at a restaurant and they would routinely hire people and pay them like $2/hour more than me because they were older.   
• From a scheduling perspective, it's not worth it as a parent, particularly for fast-food or restaurant type jobs.  You have to work around sports, school, activities,  have to have a car to get them there.  Plus, depending on where you work, I always thought the influences were not great if you work in restaurants.  I remember the GM of a national restaurants just handing out alcohol to everyone after the shift, me included.
• I'd rather get on my kids about working hard in school as opposed to working at some job.  One less schedule to work around as well.

My kids middle school schedule is busy, can't imagine how it would be in high school.  

[daisylu]

My kids knew that they were expected to work at least during the summer in high school. We feel that it is an important money lesson. 

[giramomma]

Ryan , It depends on the type of kid you get.

My oldest kid was not a school kid. He also cannot be highly scheduled. He did Magic the gathering and ultimate frisbee.

He worked a pretty good paying weekend job. He worked 24-32 hours a month and got paid 8K a year. With time and a half on Sunday, he was making over $20 an hour to bag groceries before he had to quit. He also found a job that he could get himself too and from, at age 15, without needing a car.

My second kid was gone 5 weeks out of a 12 week summer last summer. 6 weeks, if you include our family vacation. She was not employable.  She also has to be in as many activities as we'll let her be in. In Middle school, before Covid, she was doing 6 different activities (Three school sports, choir, competitive cheer, and scouts).

My third kid is wired like my first. At 10.5, more than 6 hours of martial arts a week is too much for her. Even though she loves it.

My fourth kid is too young to know for sure, but she is wired more like my second.

I don't make hard and fast rules about employment. Because my kids are all different.

[busymom]

I encourage DD to get a part-time job in high school, but getting that first job took a long time, because of course she had no job experience, just volunteer work until then.  But, she learned the value of a dollar quickly, and became a LOT more frugal when it came to spending money.  Because, working taught her the value of a dollar.  Win-win!

[weltschmerz]

Nov 1, 2022 14:09:46 GMT -5 busymom said:

I encourage DD to get a part-time job in high school, but getting that first job took a long time, because of course she had no job experience, just volunteer work until then.  But, she learned the value of a dollar quickly, and became a LOT more frugal when it came to spending money.  Because, working taught her the value of a dollar.  Win-win!

DS had a part time job in high school at a moving company.   No experience necessary, just muscles. In less than 2 years, he was promoted to crew chief.
Then he decided he's not going to destroy his body for the benefit of the company, and started his own company. Now he's making more money than I ever did.

[TheOtherMe]

I'm very old and had had old school parents.  We were required to work for any spending money during high school.  We both worked before we were legal age because of the rules in our house.

If I wanted a new outfit, I had to work or it wasn't happening.

My parents could not afford to buy us more than the one outfit for school started, one for my birthday and one for Christmas.  

If I wanted to go with the other kids on the bus to an out of town game I had to pay for it.

Thankfully, we lived far enough away that my bus pass was free.

[weltschmerz]

Nov 1, 2022 18:26:03 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I'm very old and had had old school parents.  We were required to work for any spending money during high school.  We both worked before we were legal age because of the rules in our house.

If I wanted a new outfit, I had to work or it wasn't happening.

My parents could not afford to buy us more than the one outfit for school started, one for my birthday and one for Christmas.  

If I wanted to go with the other kids on the bus to an out of town game I had to pay for it.

Thankfully, we lived far enough away that my bus pass was free.

I had to wear hand-me-downs from the people my mother worked for.

[teen persuasion]

Oct 29, 2022 10:10:04 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Oct 28, 2022 16:19:57 GMT -5 nidena said:

What isn't shared in that article is that many of us don't want to be penalized with lower wages just because we can work only part-time.

All labor hours being filled with equal labor, the difference between part-time and full-time should just be the # of hours worked and not the rate paid per hour.  If folx CAN or do work FT, then they might also get benefits but both should receive the same rate.  Instead, what I see are those who work FT getting paid, say, $18/hr and those who work PT, getting $14/hr but they're doing the same work.

Or, our positions are deliberately part-time and hourly to avoid paying for holiday or sick time.  And offer almost no benefits.  Raises are few and far between, mostly as state min wage forces them - pretty soon min wage will creep up to my wage, despite starting at 150% of min years ago.

DS4 told his boss he's looking for other work, to give boss time to hire a replacement and DS4 time to train them.  Not only haven't they found anyone to hire, a part-timer gave 2 weeks notice last week.  DS4 is tired of 50  hour weeks of manual labor in an unheated building w/ no bathroom, for a disorganized small employer.  He's running the feed and fertilizer mixing and bagging mostly by himself (occasional half day assistant, not paying attention enough to work alone), pacing his cycles to what he's learned is typical for a season.  But he gets frustrated when the storefront sends him customers for large orders he had no idea were needed - because boss forgot to tell him they'd called ahead, or boss wants to make the sale on the spot and just assumes DS4 has the stock without checking.  If/when DS4 gets fed up enough to walk out, boss is up a creek with no one to work in the warehouse.

Update on the part-timer (only got 12 hrs/week) who quit - he quit because he found a better job: welding, paying $20/hr, $30/hr on Saturdays, $40/hr on Sundays. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 29, 2022 0:41:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Chick fillet is having success with 3 day work weeks. Nurses often work 3-4 12 hr shifts and many like this.
But thinking many fast food places don’t give their workers consistent hours or days. So maybe consistency is the key and not the fewer days?
Our older DGS has every other Friday off by working slightly longe on other days. He loves the 3 day weekends

www.upworthy.com/chick-fil-a-three-day-work-week

It's kind of a by-product of being flexible.  When my son worked at McDonalds he would just sign up for whatever hours he was available around his school/extracurriculars a couple weeks out and with a bunch of high school/college students all doing that it's kind of a cluster and there would be slots where nobody signed up that needed to be manned.

[busymom]

Nov 2, 2022 9:31:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 29, 2022 0:41:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Chick fillet is having success with 3 day work weeks. Nurses often work 3-4 12 hr shifts and many like this.
But thinking many fast food places don’t give their workers consistent hours or days. So maybe consistency is the key and not the fewer days?
Our older DGS has every other Friday off by working slightly longe on other days. He loves the 3 day weekends

www.upworthy.com/chick-fil-a-three-day-work-week

It's kind of a by-product of being flexible.  When my son worked at McDonalds he would just sign up for whatever hours he was available around his school/extracurriculars a couple weeks out and with a bunch of high school/college students all doing that it's kind of a cluster and there would be slots where nobody signed up that needed to be manned.

    Yes, the McDonalds here is VERY flexible for scheduling students.  They'll even work around sports or other student activities.  

[geenamercile]

I have not made the oldest get a job because honestly school is enough.  However, if she is serious about continuing her Culinary Arts as a career, I will require her to work in a kitchen before helping with Culinary school.  Considering is looks like she will be 17 and 3 months when she graduates from high school, I will still have some pull.