Do People Just Not Want To Work Anymore?

[thyme4change]

Aug 15, 2022 19:07:17 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

Aug 15, 2022 10:09:07 GMT -5 nidena said:

Dwindling worker supply a bad omen?

The supply of workers has dwindled by about 600,000 since early 2020, per The Wall Street Journal, with the labor-force participation rate narrowing to 62.1% in July from 62.4% in March, according to the Labor Department.

I wonder how much of that is based on the demographics of the baby boomers retiring or dropping out for good. We have known this silver tsunami was coming ( gen x is tiny compared to the boomers) but it doesn’t seem like we did any planning for it. Now that it is upon us (perhaps hurried by the pandemic), we have to deal with it. You can’t go back in time snd make more kids from the 1970s-1990s, so what do you do?

I see this in my own family... dad is a mid boomer (born 1955) and one of 5. He just retired and his next brother and sister on on the verge of retiring. His younger brother will retire in a few years (but works construction so maybe sooner). His youngest sister probably has 15 years left. Out of the 5, there were only 7 kids. My sister and cousin died as young adults so me and another cousin are in our 40s and have small kids. His youngest sister has 3 but they are aged 11-18 so not in the workforce. So that 5 is essentially replaced with 2 for another 10 years

There are more millennials than baby boomers and Gen Z is hitting the employment market now. The missing people are immigrants. They are giving up on the USA. We have made it clear they aren’t welcome - even legal ones. Plus our lifestyle has proven to be less beneficial than it use to be. They are better off elsewhere.

[Opti]

Sept 6, 2022 22:45:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Aug 15, 2022 19:07:17 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

I wonder how much of that is based on the demographics of the baby boomers retiring or dropping out for good. We have known this silver tsunami was coming ( gen x is tiny compared to the boomers) but it doesn’t seem like we did any planning for it. Now that it is upon us (perhaps hurried by the pandemic), we have to deal with it. You can’t go back in time snd make more kids from the 1970s-1990s, so what do you do?

I see this in my own family... dad is a mid boomer (born 1955) and one of 5. He just retired and his next brother and sister on on the verge of retiring. His younger brother will retire in a few years (but works construction so maybe sooner). His youngest sister probably has 15 years left. Out of the 5, there were only 7 kids. My sister and cousin died as young adults so me and another cousin are in our 40s and have small kids. His youngest sister has 3 but they are aged 11-18 so not in the workforce. So that 5 is essentially replaced with 2 for another 10 years

There are more millennials than baby boomers and Gen Z is hitting the employment market now. The missing people are immigrants. They are giving up on the USA. We have made it clear they aren’t welcome - even legal ones. Plus our lifestyle has proven to be less beneficial than it use to be. They are better off elsewhere.

If you scroll down to the population pyramid, you will see the largest demographic was 30 to 34 yr olds in 2021. Not by a huge amount, but still larger than any similar span encompassing Boomers or other generations.

usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population?msclkid=18c966bb5bcd1455a36e05a34db16d2e

[TheOtherMe]

Heard on last night's nightly news that the unemployment rate is 3.7%.  That is considered full employment.

I don't know how all of these companies think they are going to attract new workers when most people are employed.

[pulmonarymd]

From all those people who don't want to work and are getting free medical care and all those other benefits that hard working Americans pay for! You need to keep up!

[busymom]

The current unemployment rate in our state is 1.8%, which they're saying is a record.  No wonder we don't have anyone working in fast food.  Mostly drive-thru only is open around here.  I guess our corporate masters are going to have to increase wages.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Sept 7, 2022 10:00:34 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Heard on last night's nightly news that the unemployment rate is 3.7%.  That is considered full employment.

I don't know how all of these companies think they are going to attract new workers when most people are employed.

We're bringing in bus loads of migrant workers.  Unemployment is less than 2% in my county and despite raising starting wages 20% this year we can't get nearly enough people to fill all the open recs.

[TheOtherMe]

It's less than 2% here also.  There was a forum here yesterday with the Chamber of Commerce and local politicians discussing how to find more workers at any kind of job.  

The GQP representative to the Iowa legislature asked if it would help to pay 50 cents an hour more.  I wish I had been there to see the business people trying not to laugh.

[nidena]

Indiana is at 2.6% which, from what I can find, is the lowest it's been in 20 years but I think we'd be better offer knowing the jobless rate rather than the unemployment rate.

Like, I'm not part of the unemployment rate because I'm not actively seeking a job but I am jobless because I know that most jobs available are not something for which I would apply.

[TheOtherMe]

Talked to my niece last night.  She is a surgical nurse.  They are so short handed at her hospital that one night every pay period she has to stay overnight at the hospital.  They don't have enough people to fully staff and they need someone who is ready to go if they have an emergency.

She gets paid more than being on call at home but not as much as her regular pay unless she is in surgery.  

The catch is the hours don't count towards her regular hours so she still works those hours plus one overnight shift.  

She said every department at the hospital is short staffed and the same for the clinic that is attached to it.

Sign on bonuses are high and she has gotten substantial raises all through Covid because they were hiring people and paying them more than she was being paid.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think Nebraska was at 3% which is the lowest it has been since the early 90's.

That didn't stop them from toughening up the unemployment requirements to even more unreasonable levels because Ricketts toes the conservative line that it's nobody wants to work so punish the unemployed till they take the $28k a year job in Lincoln when they live in freaking Iowa. 

[stillmovingforward]

I was trying to hire another engineer. High end of the money scale and nothing special as far as skills beyond 'can you talk about manufacturing?'. I got less than 20 applicants over 2 months. And only 2 were worth interviewing with barely half the skills I requested. *sigh* It's going to be a long year.

[nidena]

Covid-19 Illnesses Are Keeping at Least 500,000 Workers Out of U.S. Labor Force, Study Says

Millions of people left the labor force—the number of people working or looking for work—during the pandemic for various reasons, including retirement, lack of child care and fear of Covid. The total size of the labor force reached 164.7 million people in August, exceeding the February 2020 prepandemic level for the first time. The labor force would have 500,000 more members if not for the people sickened by Covid, according to the study’s authors, economists Gopi Shah Goda of Stanford University and Evan J. Soltas, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The study, which hasn’t yet been peer-reviewed, was based on a representative population of more than 300,000 workers followed over 14 months in the Census Bureau’s monthly household survey. The analysis covered the period from January 2010 to June 2022. The authors used health-related, weeklong absences as a proxy for probable Covid illnesses. From March 2020 to June 2022, approximately 10 workers per thousand missed a week of work due to health reasons, on average, up from six per thousand on average over the decade before the pandemic.

[bookkeeper]

Sept 9, 2022 10:13:27 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I think Nebraska was at 3% which is the lowest it has been since the early 90's.

That didn't stop them from toughening up the unemployment requirements to even more unreasonable levels because Ricketts toes the conservative line that it's nobody wants to work so punish the unemployed till they take the $28k a year job in Lincoln when they live in freaking Iowa. 

South Dakota's governor Kristi Noem did this as well.  Refused to distribute the additional $300/week federal unemployment benefit.  Let's kick poor people when they are down.  In SD, at that time, there were 1600 individuals on unemployment benefits. (reemployment is the new catchy name for this program.  

Meanwhile it is ok to grant PPP loans and forgive them to businesses.  Smart business the GOP will say!

If your business plan requires that you pay your help almost nothing, seems like an unsustainable business.

[bookkeeper]

Sioux Falls, SD has got a brand spanking new Amazon distribution center that will not become operational for a few years.  The city also has a company wanting to bring a new hog processing plant to town.  This on top of very low unemployment.

Packing plants are good at finding their labor force.  They will recruit in third world countries and arrange work visas for those who want to come to the us.  

The Amazon warehouse was built very close to the University/community college center.  Maybe their business plan was to employ students part time, or almost full time.  I have read that all these distribution centers that were built by Amazon during the pandemic are now sitting there idle.  It will be interesting to see if it ever becomes operational.

I really don't understand where the workers are supposed to come from to staff these labor intensive businesses.  Covid has killed 3000 people here in the state and sidelined many more with long covid.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 12, 2022 9:15:42 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

Sept 9, 2022 10:13:27 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I think Nebraska was at 3% which is the lowest it has been since the early 90's.

That didn't stop them from toughening up the unemployment requirements to even more unreasonable levels because Ricketts toes the conservative line that it's nobody wants to work so punish the unemployed till they take the $28k a year job in Lincoln when they live in freaking Iowa. 

South Dakota's governor Kristi Noem did this as well.  Refused to distribute the additional $300/week federal unemployment benefit.  Let's kick poor people when they are down.  In SD, at that time, there were 1600 individuals on unemployment benefits. (reemployment is the new catchy name for this program.  

Meanwhile it is ok to grant PPP loans and forgive them to businesses.  Smart business the GOP will say!

If your business plan requires that you pay your help almost nothing, seems like an unsustainable business.

Iowa used all their COVID funds to update the computers in Governor Kim's office.  It was justified that they NEEDED upgrading.  Struggling Iowans are only struggling because they don't have strong pioneer spirits.  They expect government handouts and we can't have that.

[jerseygirl]

Thinking Amazon warehouses will probably get more robots computers etc in future
People are subject to injuries , cost more and take sick leaves vacations etc

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 12, 2022 10:48:16 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Thinking Amazon warehouses will probably get more robots computers etc in future
People are subject to injuries , cost more and take sick leaves vacations etc

Maybe.  The issue is that the robots they keep threatening to replace us with are "less intelligent than a rat turd" as one McD worker put it.  There was a big deal about the automated drive thrus being put in.

They are now desperate to hire even more people because those people have to correct everything the computer gets wrong.  I swear I almost caused it to blow up because I said "no sauce" before it asked me.  It completely seized up and two minutes later a person had to get on and finish my order.

There are a lot of studies showing how dangerous full automation is.  Like it or not robots are not nearly capable of doing what we can do with our brains after thousands of years of evolution.

That's why you got a Google car who can't recognize a lady carrying bags is a person so it needs to stop.  Instead it runs right over her.  A human meanwhile learns from a very early age that a person remains a person regardless of what they are carrying.  A computer has to actively be programmed to know that.

Robots can do simple tasks but I am not convinced, especially after reading various books from people who are on the edges of this technology, that we are remotely close to the full robot takeover that corporations think will happen and even when it does it won't save them the bazillions they think it will.   Sure robots don't get physically sick but they do break down, they require upgrades and those upgrades aren't always for the better.  People are getting better and better at hacking technology and many don't have good intentions.

They will trade one set of headaches for another.   They need to stop banking on this as the solution to all their problems before they have a revolution on their hands.   We are rapidly reaching a boiling point where someone is going to write another The Jungle and worker's rights will have their resurgence.  I hope it happens in my lifetime.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 12, 2022 12:00:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Sept 12, 2022 10:48:16 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Thinking Amazon warehouses will probably get more robots computers etc in future
People are subject to injuries , cost more and take sick leaves vacations etc

Maybe.  The issue is that the robots they keep threatening to replace us with are "less intelligent than a rat turd" as one McD worker put it.  There was a big deal about the automated drive thrus being put in.

They are now desperate to hire even more people because those people have to correct everything the computer gets wrong.  I swear I almost caused it to blow up because I said "no sauce" before it asked me.  It completely seized up and two minutes later a person had to get on and finish my order.

There are a lot of studies showing how dangerous full automation is.  Like it or not robots are not nearly capable of doing what we can do with our brains after thousands of years of evolution.

That's why you got a Google car who can't recognize a lady carrying bags is a person so it needs to stop.  Instead it runs right over her.  A human meanwhile learns from a very early age that a person remains a person regardless of what they are carrying.  A computer has to actively be programmed to know that.

Robots can do simple tasks but I am not convinced, especially after reading various books from people who are on the edges of this technology, that we are remotely close to the full robot takeover that corporations think will happen and even when it does it won't save them the bazillions they think it will.   Sure robots don't get physically sick but they do break down, they require upgrades and those upgrades aren't always for the better.  People are getting better and better at hacking technology and many don't have good intentions.

They will trade one set of headaches for another.   They need to stop banking on this as the solution to all their problems before they have a revolution on their hands.   We are rapidly reaching a boiling point where someone is going to write another The Jungle and worker's rights will have their resurgence.  I hope it happens in my lifetime.

I remember the first robot we got in the lab. The robot was slower than I was, but needed to be babysat so I couldn’t do something else while it was working. I had to demonstrate why the 6 figured robot was a boat anchor to my boss. It was less accurate than I was too.

[giramomma]

Sept 10, 2022 18:48:46 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I was trying to hire another engineer. High end of the money scale and nothing special as far as skills beyond 'can you talk about manufacturing?'. I got less than 20 applicants over 2 months. And only 2 were worth interviewing with barely half the skills I requested. *sigh* It's going to be a long year.

This is really random, but can I pm you? I'd like to pick your brain a little bit regarding my work.

[jerseygirl]

Bllomberg article on reasons 100 million aren’t working


za.investing.com/news/hereswhy-100-million-americans-werent-working-this-month-2640414

[weltschmerz]

Sept 6, 2022 22:45:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Aug 15, 2022 19:07:17 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

I wonder how much of that is based on the demographics of the baby boomers retiring or dropping out for good. We have known this silver tsunami was coming ( gen x is tiny compared to the boomers) but it doesn’t seem like we did any planning for it. Now that it is upon us (perhaps hurried by the pandemic), we have to deal with it. You can’t go back in time snd make more kids from the 1970s-1990s, so what do you do?

I see this in my own family... dad is a mid boomer (born 1955) and one of 5. He just retired and his next brother and sister on on the verge of retiring. His younger brother will retire in a few years (but works construction so maybe sooner). His youngest sister probably has 15 years left. Out of the 5, there were only 7 kids. My sister and cousin died as young adults so me and another cousin are in our 40s and have small kids. His youngest sister has 3 but they are aged 11-18 so not in the workforce. So that 5 is essentially replaced with 2 for another 10 years

There are more millennials than baby boomers and Gen Z is hitting the employment market now. The missing people are immigrants. They are giving up on the USA. We have made it clear they aren’t welcome - even legal ones. Plus our lifestyle has proven to be less beneficial than it use to be. They are better off elsewhere.

We DO welcome immigrants with open arms...the more, the better.  However, there are still Help Wanted signs EVERYWHERE.
Baby boomers are retiring in droves, faster than we can replace thm.
Young people don't want to work: they want to become influencers, content creators and youtube stars.
I don't know what's going to happen.  It's bad.
Businesses are closing down, because they can't find workers.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I just got offered a job as a travel agent by a local company.  In trying to get my Air India flights (which I finally managed to get), I contacted the only travel agency in town to try to get someone to book the tickets.  The woman running the agency said that she lost her flight booking person due to covid, and can't find anyone else to work there.  I told her I couldn't do it until we got back next June, but she sounds like she'd be willing to wait.  

I am thinking about it.  I think it's something I can do from home, and I wind up doing a lot of this sort of stuff for myself.  If I can wind up with additional perks for doing this professionally, all the better for us.  TBH, it's not so much about the money but the perks.

[Pink Cashmere]

Oct 28, 2022 13:28:54 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I just got offered a job as a travel agent by a local company.  In trying to get my Air India flights (which I finally managed to get), I contacted the only travel agency in town to try to get someone to book the tickets.  The woman running the agency said that she lost her flight booking person due to covid, and can't find anyone else to work there.  I told her I couldn't do it until we got back next June, but she sounds like she'd be willing to wait.  

I am thinking about it.  I think it's something I can do from home, and I wind up doing a lot of this sort of stuff for myself.  If I can wind up with additional perks for doing this professionally, all the better for us.  TBH, it's not so much about the money but the perks.

Hmmm….. if I could find a side gig I could do from home, I think I’d be all over it lol.

[Pink Cashmere]

Oct 28, 2022 12:31:56 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 6, 2022 22:45:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

There are more millennials than baby boomers and Gen Z is hitting the employment market now. The missing people are immigrants. They are giving up on the USA. We have made it clear they aren’t welcome - even legal ones. Plus our lifestyle has proven to be less beneficial than it use to be. They are better off elsewhere.

We DO welcome immigrants with open arms...the more, the better.  However, there are still Help Wanted signs EVERYWHERE.
Baby boomers are retiring in droves, faster than we can replace thm.
Young people don't want to work: they want to become influencers, content creators and youtube stars.
I don't know what's going to happen.  It's bad.
Businesses are closing down, because they can't find workers.

I follow a woman on FB that worked at USPS when she first started going live, doing her makeup. She became FB famous and started hosting virtual and IRL “parties” where she helped other women learn to apply makeup. Then she started selling lashes. Then she started selling clothes in an online boutique. She has a physical store, but it is closed to the public, you can only shop online. She resigned from USPS after opening her clothing store. In less than 5 years, she became a multimillionaire, working for herself instead of punching a clock.

I don’t blame the young people that find ways to be financially independent working for themselves instead of a corporation. 

The problems businesses are having finding employees, imo, it’s just chickens coming home to roost for the corporate world. They have been making it clear for decades that they DGAF about their employees, especially the worker bees. So now some of their employees and potential employees have that same kind of energy and DGAF about the little pissy jobs they offer, with little pay and big work loads and problems.

I do feel a little for small businesses that can’t find employees, but not at all for big businesses and corporations. When I started at my current job, it was very rare for people to resign. It was a good gubmint job that paid decently. But it was also a toxic environment where you were expected to be more devoted to your job than anything you had going on in your personal life, and supervisors and managers thought they could talk to you and treat you any kind of way. 

For several years now, we’ve had high turnover with new employees. They aren’t interested in dealing with all that foolishness and toxicity. And I don’t blame them. Our supervisors and managers have actually had to take mandatory classes on how to deal with millennials within the last few years. Which tells me they are the ones most likely to quit right after they start working, and that on some level, my employer does know why. They simply aren’t going for what my generation and the ones behind mine were willing to put up with for a paycheck. 

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

[laterbloomer]

I'm top end Gen X. I've been right behind the boomers my whole work life so I've dealt with employers taking full advantage of the abundance of labour available and paying squat and demanding a lot. I've known the day was coming when the boomers would retire and the shoe would be on the other foot. I think it's awesome. It's not the good paying, good culture workplaces that are having trouble getting people.

[weltschmerz]

Oct 28, 2022 15:43:36 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Oct 28, 2022 12:31:56 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

We DO welcome immigrants with open arms...the more, the better.  However, there are still Help Wanted signs EVERYWHERE.
Baby boomers are retiring in droves, faster than we can replace thm.
Young people don't want to work: they want to become influencers, content creators and youtube stars.
I don't know what's going to happen.  It's bad.
Businesses are closing down, because they can't find workers.

I follow a woman on FB that worked at USPS when she first started going live, doing her makeup. She became FB famous and started hosting virtual and IRL “parties” where she helped other women learn to apply makeup. Then she started selling lashes. Then she started selling clothes in an online boutique. She has a physical store, but it is closed to the public, you can only shop online. She resigned from USPS after opening her clothing store. In less than 5 years, she became a multimillionaire, working for herself instead of punching a clock.

I don’t blame the young people that find ways to be financially independent working for themselves instead of a corporation. 

The problems businesses are having finding employees, imo, it’s just chickens coming home to roost for the corporate world. They have been making it clear for decades that they DGAF about their employees, especially the worker bees. So now some of their employees and potential employees have that same kind of energy and DGAF about the little pissy jobs they offer, with little pay and big work loads and problems.

I do feel a little for small businesses that can’t find employees, but not at all for big businesses and corporations. When I started at my current job, it was very rare for people to resign. It was a good gubmint job that paid decently. But it was also a toxic environment where you were expected to be more devoted to your job than anything you had going on in your personal life, and supervisors and managers thought they could talk to you and treat you any kind of way. 

For several years now, we’ve had high turnover with new employees. They aren’t interested in dealing with all that foolishness and toxicity. And I don’t blame them. Our supervisors and managers have actually had to take mandatory classes on how to deal with millennials within the last few years. Which tells me they are the ones most likely to quit right after they start working, and that on some level, my employer does know why. They simply aren’t going for what my generation and the ones behind mine were willing to put up with for a paycheck. 

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

I've seen shows where Instagram 'stars' are living in their cars.
The more 'followers'  you have, the more ads you get and that's how you make money. 
Most just won't cut it.

[nidena]

What isn't shared in that article is that many of us don't want to be penalized with lower wages just because we can work only part-time.

All labor hours being filled with equal labor, the difference between part-time and full-time should just be the # of hours worked and not the rate paid per hour.  If folx CAN or do work FT, then they might also get benefits but both should receive the same rate.  Instead, what I see are those who work FT getting paid, say, $18/hr and those who work PT, getting $14/hr but they're doing the same work.

[weltschmerz]

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

Who is going to grow our food, deliver it to the srores, stock the shelves, man the gas pumps, tale care of the sick and dying, build our houses, make our household goods, ect.

Nobody. They all want to be internet millionaires.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2022 13:28:54 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I am thinking about it.  I think it's something I can do from home, and I wind up doing a lot of this sort of stuff for myself.  If I can wind up with additional perks for doing this professionally, all the better for us.  TBH, it's not so much about the money but the perks.

As long as it doesn't interfere with your future travel that sounds great!  That's what would keep me form doing something similar- I'm done with trying to figure out how to allocate a limited number of vacation days.

Interesting Planet Money podcast on the unexpected impacts of working from home- a large number of women who HAD jobs that allowed it hated it because they were trying to do their jobs with kids running around, feeling like they were short-changing the job and the kids.  I suppose that with schools opening, closing, opening again and day care business probably closed, they didn't have reliable child care.  Having to supervise the kids' home schooling wouldn't help.

[Pink Cashmere]

Oct 28, 2022 16:25:32 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And I say GOOD FOR THEM!

Who is going to grow our food, deliver it to the srores, stock the shelves, man the gas pumps, tale care of the sick and dying, build our houses, make our household goods, ect.

Nobody. They all want to be internet millionaires.

Not all of them want to be Internet millionaires. But the ones that do, prefer to make millions of dollars for themselves instead of helping pad the pockets of people that don’t give a shit about them and help make them millionaires.

The world has changed. There aren’t as many people willing to do hard labor and not even make enough money to pay for a reasonably safe roof over their head and be able to eat decently or go to the Doctor when they need to. I am speaking on just individuals trying to take care of themselves, and not adding having a family to the equation. And then get treated like shit on top of everything else.

I understand how people refusing to take the jobs you mention makes life more inconvenient and even less safe for all of us, but I still stand with the people that refuse to work labor intensive jobs where they are paid pennies and treated like shit.