happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2024 9:20:56 GMT -5
Trump is claiming the public ‘won’t stand for it’ if he gets jail time.
Sounds like more instigating.
I’m a ‘public’ though, and I can certainly stand for it. I’m wondering how many of his minions would even risk their necks for him, seeing what happened to previous minions.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 9:26:16 GMT -5
As James Comey said about the possibility of incarceration for Trump, "I don't know. It seems unlikely, but I've never seen a defendant beg for it more. By attacking the judge, attacking the jury, attacking the witnesses.... One of the key things in assessing what sentence is appropriate a judge looks at, "So are you sorry for what you did? Are you respecting the system? This defendant is running the other way." Exactly right. Trump's responses all the way through show him as a continuing threat to the judicial system, the judicial process, and public safety. He has also shown through his actions after the Carroll case that he will not be controlled by verdicts or court rulings. Time for that to end. I don't recall if each count carries a four-year maximum, but at a minimum I would go with: Four years on Count 1 (or whichever the judge decides is the most serious or damaging) and four years on every other count with all but 30 days suspended for each. Sentences to run consecutively. That would give him 81 months in prison. I thought the judicial system and process stood up just fine to Trump’s bluster. And Muhammad Ali "stood up just fine" to Joe Frazier in Manila, right? I mean, he won the fight, right? Almost half the country now doubts that the court system is legitimate, just like our elections. Trump is still bashing the judge, the clerk, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels, E. Jean Carroll, and any number of other targets of his rage every day. A major topic of discussion in some quarters is whether we are headed toward a civil war because of this verdict. Jurors and court personnel now have to be concerned that some random nut will do them harm, or kill them. Republicans are now actively trying to use the courts for revenge, along with furthering Trump's attacks on their legitimacy. Aileen Cannon is engaged in her own battle to deny justice with her rulings. And while not strictly a judicial matter, Republican senators' refusal to convict in either of the impeachment trials is in the same sense justice denied. Should I go on?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 9:35:09 GMT -5
I thought the judicial system and process stood up just fine to Trump’s bluster. And Muhammad Ali "stood up just fine" to Joe Frazier in Manila, right? I mean, he won the fight, right? Almost half the country now doubts that the court system is legitimate, just like our elections. Trump is still bashing the judge, the clerk, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels, E. Jean Carroll, and any number of other targets of his rage every day. A major topic of discussion in some quarters is whether we are headed toward a civil war because of this verdict. Jurors and court personnel now have to be concerned that some random nut will do them harm, or kill them. Republicans are now actively trying to use the courts for revenge, along with furthering Trump's attacks on their legitimacy. Aileen Cannon is engaged in her own battle to deny justice with her rulings. And while not strictly a judicial matter, Republican senators' refusal to convict in either of the impeachment trials is in the same sense justice denied. Should I go on? And sentencing Trump to a prison term (which is extremely rare for anyone convicted for such crimes) will change any of that how?
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jun 3, 2024 9:50:47 GMT -5
As James Comey said about the possibility of incarceration for Trump, "I don't know. It seems unlikely, but I've never seen a defendant beg for it more. By attacking the judge, attacking the jury, attacking the witnesses.... One of the key things in assessing what sentence is appropriate a judge looks at, "So are you sorry for what you did? Are you respecting the system? This defendant is running the other way." Exactly right. Trump's responses all the way through show him as a continuing threat to the judicial system, the judicial process, and public safety. He has also shown through his actions after the Carroll case that he will not be controlled by verdicts or court rulings. Time for that to end. I don't recall if each count carries a four-year maximum, but at a minimum I would go with: Four years on Count 1 (or whichever the judge decides is the most serious or damaging) and four years on every other count with all but 30 days suspended for each. Sentences to run consecutively. That would give him 81 months in prison. I thought the judicial system and process stood up just fine to Trump’s bluster. But were you the judge or jury who had to put up with his illegal harassment?
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jun 3, 2024 9:52:23 GMT -5
And Muhammad Ali "stood up just fine" to Joe Frazier in Manila, right? I mean, he won the fight, right? Almost half the country now doubts that the court system is legitimate, just like our elections. Trump is still bashing the judge, the clerk, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels, E. Jean Carroll, and any number of other targets of his rage every day. A major topic of discussion in some quarters is whether we are headed toward a civil war because of this verdict. Jurors and court personnel now have to be concerned that some random nut will do them harm, or kill them. Republicans are now actively trying to use the courts for revenge, along with furthering Trump's attacks on their legitimacy. Aileen Cannon is engaged in her own battle to deny justice with her rulings. And while not strictly a judicial matter, Republican senators' refusal to convict in either of the impeachment trials is in the same sense justice denied. Should I go on? And sentencing Trump to a prison term (which is extremely rare for anyone convicted for such crimes) will change any of that how? It will show that actions have consequences. He's been repeatedly warned.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 9:55:02 GMT -5
And Muhammad Ali "stood up just fine" to Joe Frazier in Manila, right? I mean, he won the fight, right? Almost half the country now doubts that the court system is legitimate, just like our elections. Trump is still bashing the judge, the clerk, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels, E. Jean Carroll, and any number of other targets of his rage every day. A major topic of discussion in some quarters is whether we are headed toward a civil war because of this verdict. Jurors and court personnel now have to be concerned that some random nut will do them harm, or kill them. Republicans are now actively trying to use the courts for revenge, along with furthering Trump's attacks on their legitimacy. Aileen Cannon is engaged in her own battle to deny justice with her rulings. And while not strictly a judicial matter, Republican senators' refusal to convict in either of the impeachment trials is in the same sense justice denied. Should I go on? And sentencing Trump to a prison term (which is extremely rare for anyone convicted for such crimes) will change any of that how? Those who are opposed to capital punishment try to say that the death penalty does not deter crime. It does for that person. If Trump is finally after so many years held accountable for his actions in a way that actually hurts him, we are all better off. If the justice system actually proves that nobody is above the law, we are all better off. If Trump is no longer doing his utmost to bring down our systems by instigating distrust and violence in his misguided supporters, we are all better off. If society discovers that none of Trump's bluster has any real effect after all, we are all better off. The failure of those misguided supporters to understand that does not invalidate it.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jun 3, 2024 9:56:26 GMT -5
I'd like to see community service. It would humiliate him and he wouldn't get as much sympathy as a jail sentence would. Of course he would abuse it and possible get warnings and more time. Maybe end up with worst service like cleaning trash up.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2024 10:28:34 GMT -5
MTG wants Congress to ‘defund’ the whole state of NY for ‘what they did to Trump.’
I can’t even, with her.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 3, 2024 10:33:24 GMT -5
I'm sure the republican reps from NY are on board with that.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 11:32:12 GMT -5
And sentencing Trump to a prison term (which is extremely rare for anyone convicted for such crimes) will change any of that how? It will show that actions have consequences. He's been repeatedly warned. He was convicted-consequence. Now we are just looking at what other consequence might be appropriate. Prison is not a common consequence for similar crimes.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 11:34:30 GMT -5
I thought the judicial system and process stood up just fine to Trump’s bluster. But were you the judge or jury who had to put up with his illegal harassment? The judge handled the illegal harassment already and can deal with any further illegal activities.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 11:38:50 GMT -5
And sentencing Trump to a prison term (which is extremely rare for anyone convicted for such crimes) will change any of that how? Those who are opposed to capital punishment try to say that the death penalty does not deter crime. It does for that person. If Trump is finally after so many years held accountable for his actions in a way that actually hurts him, we are all better off. If the justice system actually proves that nobody is above the law, we are all better off. If Trump is no longer doing his utmost to bring down our systems by instigating distrust and violence in his misguided supporters, we are all better off. If society discovers that none of Trump's bluster has any real effect after all, we are all better off. The failure of those misguided supporters to understand that does not invalidate it. It seems to be that it is Trump’s bluster that is causing the call for a more extreme sentence. Not treating him differently is what we serve us well.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 3, 2024 12:20:37 GMT -5
Those who are opposed to capital punishment try to say that the death penalty does not deter crime. It does for that person. If Trump is finally after so many years held accountable for his actions in a way that actually hurts him, we are all better off. If the justice system actually proves that nobody is above the law, we are all better off. If Trump is no longer doing his utmost to bring down our systems by instigating distrust and violence in his misguided supporters, we are all better off. If society discovers that none of Trump's bluster has any real effect after all, we are all better off. The failure of those misguided supporters to understand that does not invalidate it. It seems to be that it is Trump’s bluster that is causing the call for a more extreme sentence. Not treating him differently is what we serve us well. Stormy Daniels gets death threats from trump supporters. I think few understand that Trump caused all the problems regarding this case, not Stormy. She can't falsify his business records or request that they are falsified. Only he could do that. So if she got death threats I bet the judge and the court reporter did as well. And their families. That is not regular behavior so treating him as if he did not paint targets on lots of people associated with the case gives him better justice than others. That's not right.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 12:30:20 GMT -5
It seems to be that it is Trump’s bluster that is causing the call for a more extreme sentence. Not treating him differently is what we serve us well. Stormy Daniels gets death threats from trump supporters. I think few understand that Trump caused all the problems regarding this case, not Stormy. She can't falsify his business records or request that they are falsified. Only he could do that. So if she got death threats I bet the judge and the court reporter did as well. And their families. That is not regular behavior so treating him as if he did not paint targets on lots of people associated with the case gives him better justice than others. That's not right. I agree that is not right. In the case that was just tried, he was found guilty of falsified business documents. I am discussing the sentence for that crime. If other behaviors call for charges, a case should be filed
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 13:11:00 GMT -5
So even if only 10% of persons convicted of these charges is sentenced to prison,do you really want to argue that any of those are less of a threat than Trump? I wouldn't.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 13:24:57 GMT -5
So even if only 10% of persons convicted of these charges is sentenced to prison,do you really want to argue that any of those are less of a threat than Trump? I wouldn't. I don't see Trump as the type of threat that would be solved by locking him up. In fact, I see sentencing him to a prison term as creating a bigger threat.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 3, 2024 13:26:34 GMT -5
A former President who is quite obnoxious- in jail, and still protected by the secret service is 80’s sitcom gold.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 13:33:37 GMT -5
The way to handle a bully is to call his bluff. Locking him up will do that better than anything else. Any of his supporters who want to act up can be locked up too.
Appeasement rarely if ever works, and would NEVER work with Trump.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 3, 2024 14:51:39 GMT -5
I'd like to see community service. It would humiliate him and he wouldn't get as much sympathy as a jail sentence would. Of course he would abuse it and possible get warnings and more time. Maybe end up with worst service like cleaning trash up. How many SS agents does he have with him at all times? For their sake, since they are absolutely innocent of these crimes, I hope Fopa gets to park his fat ass in a jail cell. His security detail should get a nice temperature controlled room to watch Fopa 24/7 , or as much as needed, via monitors.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 3, 2024 16:17:49 GMT -5
I’m not sure rich people do trash picking for community service. They probably do something like give a speech for a charitable event, or something like that.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2024 19:32:08 GMT -5
I’m not sure rich people do trash picking for community service. They probably do something like give a speech for a charitable event, or something like that. Make him do a speech for free, for a charity fighting global warming by promoting windmills. It would kill him.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2024 19:33:20 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 3, 2024 20:20:02 GMT -5
A lot of good those pro-trump witnesses did for him. Got him convicted of felonies 34 times.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 3, 2024 20:33:24 GMT -5
But were you the judge or jury who had to put up with his illegal harassment? The judge handled the illegal harassment already and can deal with any further illegal activities. Excuse me for bringing this up but your answer sounds very much like people saying "she had a restraining order" while standing over the murdered body of a domestic abuse victim. Just saying
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 21:18:23 GMT -5
The judge handled the illegal harassment already and can deal with any further illegal activities. Excuse me for bringing this up but your answer sounds very much like people saying "she had a restraining order" while standing over the murdered body of a domestic abuse victim. Just saying It is a good point. But we don't currently jail people preemptively. Should Trump be the reason we end that norm?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 21:47:16 GMT -5
Excuse me for bringing this up but your answer sounds very much like people saying "she had a restraining order" while standing over the murdered body of a domestic abuse victim. Just saying It is a good point. But we don't currently jail people preemptively. Should Trump be the reason we end that norm? Why do you claim it would be preemptively? People are imprisoned for these charges, though admittedly not the majority. Trump is likely far worse than the average defendant, both in the nature of his offenses and his actions and behavior throughout the process. A prison sentence is warranted, and he has done not one single thing to obviate that.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 22:05:00 GMT -5
It is a good point. But we don't currently jail people preemptively. Should Trump be the reason we end that norm? Why do you claim it would be preemptively? People are imprisoned for these charges, though admittedly not the majority. Trump is likely far worse than the average defendant, both in the nature of his offenses and his actions and behavior throughout the process. A prison sentence is warranted, and he has done not one single thing to obviate that. He was tried and convicted for falsifying business records. Is he being jailed for that crime? I hear it is about death threats, etc that he allegedly caused to take place. Jailing him without a new trial would be preemptive.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 22:23:31 GMT -5
Why do you claim it would be preemptively? People are imprisoned for these charges, though admittedly not the majority. Trump is likely far worse than the average defendant, both in the nature of his offenses and his actions and behavior throughout the process. A prison sentence is warranted, and he has done not one single thing to obviate that. He was tried and convicted for falsifying business records. Is he being jailed for that crime? I hear it is about death threats, etc that he allegedly caused to take place. Jailing him without a new trial would be preemptive. People do get imprisoned for the crime of falsifying records. Probably the main components of deciding whether a defendant will be imprisoned for that crime is the nature of the offenses and the behavior during and after the trial. Trump fails both of those, miserably. He has given the court zero reason to not sentence him to prison, and such a sentence would be entirely appropriate under the circumstances.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 22:41:53 GMT -5
He was tried and convicted for falsifying business records. Is he being jailed for that crime? I hear it is about death threats, etc that he allegedly caused to take place. Jailing him without a new trial would be preemptive. People do get imprisoned for the crime of falsifying records. Probably the main components of deciding whether a defendant will be imprisoned for that crime is the nature of the offenses and the behavior during and after the trial. Trump fails both of those, miserably. He has given the court zero reason to not sentence him to prison, and such a sentence would be entirely appropriate under the circumstances. Class E, non-violent, first conviction are other major factors that play against it.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 22:57:00 GMT -5
People do get imprisoned for the crime of falsifying records. Probably the main components of deciding whether a defendant will be imprisoned for that crime is the nature of the offenses and the behavior during and after the trial. Trump fails both of those, miserably. He has given the court zero reason to not sentence him to prison, and such a sentence would be entirely appropriate under the circumstances. Class E, non-violent, first conviction are other major factors that play against it. Tacitly "suggesting" or encouraging violence does not qualify as non-violent. And "first conviction" does not impress me either, considering his very well-known history. The judge is allowed to take both of those into account.
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