djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 31, 2024 14:21:07 GMT -5
i have been thinking about this. the best sentence for him would be a sentence of six months, imo. consider the dates before you reply to that remark.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 31, 2024 14:54:31 GMT -5
I don't support his reelection, so I support probation.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on May 31, 2024 15:02:38 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood me. I take great pleasure in what is happening to Fopa and his cult. It is what is happening to this country. The total destruction of what was and what it could have been. It never was perfect (no country ever is or will be) but it is losing its soul at an ever increasing pace. Like a child that dies before it reaches its full potential this embrace of totalitarianism/fascism will lead it to be just another footnote in the book the Rise and Fall of Empires. And THAT makes me sad - the could-have-beens. As for Fopa - there is no punishment strong enough for what his petty selfishness has caused. But I hope that this, and all those other court cases still in his future, will be the death by a thousand cuts for him. It is the best we can reasonably get. And it helps that even if he is elected <shudder> he will NOT be able to pardon himself from a conviction in a state court. i think we kind of half understand each other, here. but hell, it is 10PM here! it might be more! i am tired. g'night. Where are you? Did you finally move out of the U S?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 31, 2024 16:49:24 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 31, 2024 17:10:04 GMT -5
Even if he doesn't serve I imagine it really sticks up Trump's craw that he got convicted. This is a man that squirmed through not one but TWO impeachments. I hope the stress and anger over knowing he fucking lost eat him alive. Capone ended up being caught on tax evasion. John Edwards got himself caught paying for his mistress's hair cuts. Clinton lied instead of just saying "Yeah I banged her, what president hasn't banged an intern?" It seems like eventually they all fly too high in the sky and the wax melts off their wings. Even if he doesn't serve time I feel that the fact he was convicted means on some level democracy and our justice system is still working. And on another note I would REALLY like to stop living through historic events. Especially crappy ones like the first former president and possible Republican nominee to be a convicted of a crime. Can I have a positive historic event before I die PLEASE? We have had two positive historical events although I often wonder if the election of Obama made way for the election of Trump. Besides the election of Obama as a non-lily white human we finally got a woman in as VP. I hope we can keep Trump as a one term President.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 31, 2024 17:42:55 GMT -5
I will admit that I know embarrassing little about the criminal justice system* so I need some "education" aside from what I have gathered from news reports and watching all those real crime shows.
So my question is related to the "we'll appeal the verdict" comment that was thrown out by Fopa and his cronies almost immediately. From my understanding you can indeed appeal a verdict but you need to have a basis for the appeal. And those reasons are very specific. Not liking the outcome of a trial is not an acceptable basis as far as I can see. Nor is the party affiliation of any person involved in the trial. Or being barred from (attempted witness/juror/court personnel) intimidation. Or am I mistaken in this, can you always just say "I don't like the outcome, so I want a do-over"?
*for the record: it is not just the American criminal justice system I know bupkes about. It holds true for any country I ever lived in for either short or extended periods.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 31, 2024 18:12:56 GMT -5
I will admit that I know embarrassing little about the criminal justice system* so I need some "education" aside from what I have gathered from news reports and watching all those real crime shows. So my question is related to the "we'll appeal the verdict" comment that was thrown out by Fopa and his cronies almost immediately. From my understanding you can indeed appeal a verdict but you need to have a basis for the appeal. And those reasons are very specific. Not liking the outcome of a trial is not an acceptable basis as far as I can see. Nor is the party affiliation of any person involved in the trial. Or being barred from (attempted witness/juror/court personnel) intimidation. Or am I mistaken in this, can you always just say "I don't like the outcome, so I want a do-over"? *for the record: it is not just the American criminal justice system I know bupkes about. It holds true for any country I ever lived in for either short or extended periods. No, you cannot appeal just because you want a do-over. There needs to be grounds for appeal. There are quite a few possibilities, such as improper application of the law, improper admission or exclusion of evidence, ineffective assistance of counsel, prosecutorial misconduct, faulty jury instructions, and others. I don't see any of those being persuasive.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 31, 2024 20:45:07 GMT -5
Thanks tallguy . Looks like my tv "education" did not lie/mislead. It would be interesting to see what happens if an appeal is not granted. Time will tell I guess
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 31, 2024 21:21:32 GMT -5
I will admit that I know embarrassing little about the criminal justice system* so I need some "education" aside from what I have gathered from news reports and watching all those real crime shows. So my question is related to the "we'll appeal the verdict" comment that was thrown out by Fopa and his cronies almost immediately. From my understanding you can indeed appeal a verdict but you need to have a basis for the appeal. And those reasons are very specific. Not liking the outcome of a trial is not an acceptable basis as far as I can see. Nor is the party affiliation of any person involved in the trial. Or being barred from (attempted witness/juror/court personnel) intimidation. Or am I mistaken in this, can you always just say "I don't like the outcome, so I want a do-over"? *for the record: it is not just the American criminal justice system I know bupkes about. It holds true for any country I ever lived in for either short or extended periods. No, you cannot appeal just because you want a do-over. There needs to be grounds for appeal. There are quite a few possibilities, such as improper application of the law, improper admission or exclusion of evidence, ineffective assistance of counsel, prosecutorial misconduct, faulty jury instructions, and others. I don't see any of those being persuasive. Well there is the reliably ‘ineffective assistance of counsel.’ If he didn’t win, his lawyers must have screwed up. Which is also why he also won’t pay them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 31, 2024 23:01:16 GMT -5
Showing my knowledge of the criminal justice system…
I recall several years ago, one of the housewives of wherever and her husband got convicted of some white collar offense - probably tax evasion or something. They started his sentence after some event or some period of time so he could do something. And after he served his term, there was a break and then his wife served her term, so their kids always had a parent.
I could see them postponing whatever punishment he does get to start in Jan 2025 or Jan 2029 - depending…. It isn’t like he can slip away. The secret service has eyes on him until he dies. I guess they could accompany him to Russia and he could refuse to leave, but he could never return to America.
As far as him voting - I thought he needed to complete his whole sentence before he could vote in Florida? Even if he just gets probation, he will not have completed his sentence.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 31, 2024 23:22:26 GMT -5
Showing my knowledge of the criminal justice system… I recall several years ago, one of the housewives of wherever and her husband got convicted of some white collar offense - probably tax evasion or something. They started his sentence after some event or some period of time so he could do something. And after he served his term, there was a break and then his wife served her term, so their kids always had a parent. I could see them postponing whatever punishment he does get to start in Jan 2025 or Jan 2029 - depending…. It isn’t like he can slip away. The secret service has eyes on him until he dies. I guess they could accompany him to Russia and he could refuse to leave, but he could never return to America. As far as him voting - I thought he needed to complete his whole sentence before he could vote in Florida? Even if he just gets probation, he will not have completed his sentence. I heard on CNN yesterday that because convicted felons not currently incarcerated for a felony in New York can still vote, that Trump would not lose his right to vote in Florida. Florida law allows that exception for those convicted in another state.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 1, 2024 0:17:26 GMT -5
i think we kind of half understand each other, here. but hell, it is 10PM here! it might be more! i am tired. g'night. Where are you? Did you finally move out of the U S? i spend about 1/3 of my time outside the US right now. i plan on telling my cohorts when i come back that if Trump wins, the next time i leave the US, i am coming back in an urn.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 1, 2024 18:15:10 GMT -5
Showing my knowledge of the criminal justice system… I recall several years ago, one of the housewives of wherever and her husband got convicted of some white collar offense - probably tax evasion or something. They started his sentence after some event or some period of time so he could do something. And after he served his term, there was a break and then his wife served her term, so their kids always had a parent. I could see them postponing whatever punishment he does get to start in Jan 2025 or Jan 2029 - depending…. It isn’t like he can slip away. The secret service has eyes on him until he dies. I guess they could accompany him to Russia and he could refuse to leave, but he could never return to America. As far as him voting - I thought he needed to complete his whole sentence before he could vote in Florida? Even if he just gets probation, he will not have completed his sentence. I heard on CNN yesterday that because convicted felons not currently incarcerated for a felony in New York can still vote, that Trump would not lose his right to vote in Florida. Florida law allows that exception for those convicted in another state. Meanwhile, some kid who pled out to some random felony spent a few years in prison and now owes a $10 fine and still can’t vote in Florida. 🙄
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 1, 2024 18:25:41 GMT -5
Saw this on social media so I don’t know if it’s true - does Scotland prevent convicted felons from entering? If that’s true, Trump can’t visit his golf course there.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 1, 2024 19:21:05 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 1, 2024 19:30:42 GMT -5
trump has never met a problem he couldn't make worse.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 2, 2024 3:58:47 GMT -5
Saw this on social media so I don’t know if it’s true - does Scotland prevent convicted felons from entering? If that’s true, Trump can’t visit his golf course there. there are MANY COUNTRIES that have travel restrictions on felons: Argentina Australia Canada China Cuba India Iran Israel Japan Kenya Macau New Zealand South Africa Taiwan United Kingdom United States this list of countries don't allow entry to KNOWN felons (bolding is mine): Brazil Cambodia Chile Dominican Republic Egypt Ethiopia Hong Kong Indonesia Ireland Malaysia Mexico Morocco Nepal Peru Philippines Singapore South Korea Tanzania Tunisia Turkey
Ukraine United Arab Emirates
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 2, 2024 7:30:54 GMT -5
Ken Burns has always been apolitical. until now. check this piece of absolute eloquence out from his commencement address at Bradeis U:
Othering is the simplistic binary way to make and identify enemies, but it is also the surest way to your own self imprisonment, which brings me to a moment I've dreaded and forces me to suspend my longstanding attempt at neutrality.
There is no real choice this November. There is only the perpetuation, however flawed and feeble you might perceive it, of our fragile 249-year-old experiment or the entropy that will engulf and destroy us if we take the other route. When, as Mercy Otis Warren would say, "The checks of conscience are thrown aside and a deformed picture of the soul is revealed." The presumptive Republican nominee is the opioid of all opioids, an easy cure for what some believe is the solution to our myriad pains and problems. When in fact with him, you end up re-enslaved with an even bigger problem, a worse affliction and addiction, "a bigger delusion", James Baldwin would say, the author and finisher of our national existence, our national suicide as Mr. Lincoln prophesies. Do not be seduced by easy equalization. There is nothing equal about this equation. We are at an existential crossroads in our political and civic lives. This is a choice that could not be clearer.
-Ken Burns, May, 2024
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 2, 2024 7:55:12 GMT -5
beautiful, right? i cried a little bit reading that. and i am thinking about dinner, here in Istanbul. i still care, guys. i worry about America. i worry for all of you. and i worry for the rest of the world if you fail.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 2, 2024 9:54:01 GMT -5
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jun 2, 2024 10:43:20 GMT -5
I have no doubt that this is an attempt on his part to further inflame his followers and perhaps try to draw parallels to being a “political prisoner”.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jun 2, 2024 13:20:01 GMT -5
Ken Burns has always been apolitical. until now. check this piece of absolute eloquence out from his commencement address at Bradeis U: Othering is the simplistic binary way to make and identify enemies, but it is also the surest way to your own self imprisonment, which brings me to a moment I've dreaded and forces me to suspend my longstanding attempt at neutrality.
There is no real choice this November. There is only the perpetuation, however flawed and feeble you might perceive it, of our fragile 249-year-old experiment or the entropy that will engulf and destroy us if we take the other route. When, as Mercy Otis Warren would say, "The checks of conscience are thrown aside and a deformed picture of the soul is revealed." The presumptive Republican nominee is the opioid of all opioids, an easy cure for what some believe is the solution to our myriad pains and problems. When in fact with him, you end up re-enslaved with an even bigger problem, a worse affliction and addiction, "a bigger delusion", James Baldwin would say, the author and finisher of our national existence, our national suicide as Mr. Lincoln prophesies. Do not be seduced by easy equalization. There is nothing equal about this equation. We are at an existential crossroads in our political and civic lives. This is a choice that could not be clearer.-Ken Burns, May, 2024 Unfortunately, dj, those that can understand what Ken Burns is saying are already aware. Those that need to hear the message, are blissfully ignorant, avidly awaiting the end-times and the rapture that they think their guy is ushering in.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 2, 2024 13:26:46 GMT -5
such a sad, painful truth.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 2, 2024 13:57:42 GMT -5
I have no doubt that this is an attempt on his part to further inflame his followers and perhaps try to draw parallels to being a “political prisoner”. And to inflame his followers to send money. With him, it’s always money. And it’s working. The suckers minions have handed over something like 54 million bucks to their poor glorious martyr.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 2, 2024 14:04:04 GMT -5
Didn’t realize part of the sentencing process is he has to be interviewed (and his friends/family interviewed) about his conviction. He gets brownie points for not every being convicted before, He also gets brownie points for not having drug or alcohol issues (I question the part about the drugs, but that’s never been proven), but he’s going to get hung up on the questions meant to assess his mental health, and to find out how he feels about the verdict. (We all know how he feels about the verdict).
Still, I agree with bills - this is not a ‘heavy’ felony, and due to not having a prior criminal record and to his age, he’ll most likely get a fine/probation, which is in line with what other defendants charged with this kind of felony have gotten.
The interesting one, to me, will be the documents case, if Cannon will ever get off her ass and have it. If they follow the usual sentencing guidelines for that kind of crime, he really deserves significant jail time. People have done a lot of jail time for much smaller breeches.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 3, 2024 1:51:49 GMT -5
Didn’t realize part of the sentencing process is he has to be interviewed (and his friends/family interviewed) about his conviction. He gets brownie points for not every being convicted before, He also gets brownie points for not having drug or alcohol issues (I question the part about the drugs, but that’s never been proven), but he’s going to get hung up on the questions meant to assess his mental health, and to find out how he feels about the verdict. (We all know how he feels about the verdict). Still, I agree with bills - this is not a ‘heavy’ felony, and due to not having a prior criminal record and to his age, he’ll most likely get a fine/probation, which is in line with what other defendants charged with this kind of felony have gotten. The interesting one, to me, will be the documents case, if Cannon will ever get off her ass and have it. If they follow the usual sentencing guidelines for that kind of crime, he really deserves significant jail time. People have done a lot of jail time for much smaller breeches. this is a felony that results in prison time about 10% of the time. i would argue that Trump should be imprisoned. and it is not because i don't like him. it is because home confinement is what he has been doing the last four years. that is about as much of a deterrent as a weekend at the beach is for the rest of us. i doubt that actual prison time will have much of an impact on him, but it is more likely to have an impact than anything else that is done. again, i would advocate for at least six months of incarceration and probably 10000 hours of community service. something like that. no fines. fines are how he usually plays the game. don't play his game.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 3, 2024 3:44:15 GMT -5
Didn’t realize part of the sentencing process is he has to be interviewed (and his friends/family interviewed) about his conviction. He gets brownie points for not every being convicted before, He also gets brownie points for not having drug or alcohol issues (I question the part about the drugs, but that’s never been proven), but he’s going to get hung up on the questions meant to assess his mental health, and to find out how he feels about the verdict. (We all know how he feels about the verdict). Still, I agree with bills - this is not a ‘heavy’ felony, and due to not having a prior criminal record and to his age, he’ll most likely get a fine/probation, which is in line with what other defendants charged with this kind of felony have gotten. The interesting one, to me, will be the documents case, if Cannon will ever get off her ass and have it. If they follow the usual sentencing guidelines for that kind of crime, he really deserves significant jail time. People have done a lot of jail time for much smaller breeches. this is a felony that results in prison time about 10% of the time. i would argue that Trump should be imprisoned.and it is not because i don't like him. it is because home confinement is what he has been doing the last four years. that is about as much of a deterrent as a weekend at the beach is for the rest of us. i doubt that actual prison time will have much of an impact on him, but it is more likely to have an impact than anything else that is done. again, i would advocate for at least six months of incarceration and probably 10000 hours of community service. something like that. no fines. fines are how he usually plays the game. don't play his game. As James Comey said about the possibility of incarceration for Trump, "I don't know. It seems unlikely, but I've never seen a defendant beg for it more. By attacking the judge, attacking the jury, attacking the witnesses.... One of the key things in assessing what sentence is appropriate a judge looks at, "So are you sorry for what you did? Are you respecting the system? This defendant is running the other way." Exactly right. Trump's responses all the way through show him as a continuing threat to the judicial system, the judicial process, and public safety. He has also shown through his actions after the Carroll case that he will not be controlled by verdicts or court rulings. Time for that to end. I don't recall if each count carries a four-year maximum, but at a minimum I would go with: Four years on Count 1 (or whichever the judge decides is the most serious or damaging) and four years on every other count with all but 30 days suspended for each. Sentences to run consecutively. That would give him 81 months in prison.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 3, 2024 7:08:46 GMT -5
Didn’t realize part of the sentencing process is he has to be interviewed (and his friends/family interviewed) about his conviction. He gets brownie points for not every being convicted before, He also gets brownie points for not having drug or alcohol issues (I question the part about the drugs, but that’s never been proven), but he’s going to get hung up on the questions meant to assess his mental health, and to find out how he feels about the verdict. (We all know how he feels about the verdict). Still, I agree with bills - this is not a ‘heavy’ felony, and due to not having a prior criminal record and to his age, he’ll most likely get a fine/probation, which is in line with what other defendants charged with this kind of felony have gotten. The interesting one, to me, will be the documents case, if Cannon will ever get off her ass and have it. If they follow the usual sentencing guidelines for that kind of crime, he really deserves significant jail time. People have done a lot of jail time for much smaller breeches. this is a felony that results in prison time about 10% of the time. i would argue that Trump should be imprisoned. and it is not because i don't like him. it is because home confinement is what he has been doing the last four years. that is about as much of a deterrent as a weekend at the beach is for the rest of us. i doubt that actual prison time will have much of an impact on him, but it is more likely to have an impact than anything else that is done. again, i would advocate for at least six months of incarceration and probably 10000 hours of community service. something like that. no fines. fines are how he usually plays the game. don't play his game. I think community service hours would be the worst for him. Can’t see the SS allowing him to pick up trash on the side of the road, but what about 200 hours washing dishes in a soup kitchen?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 3, 2024 8:26:29 GMT -5
The Borowitz Report
Melania Says House Arrest for Trump Would Be Cruel and Unusual Punishment for HerJUN 03, 2024 NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)—Writing an impassioned letter on Monday to Judge Juan Merchan, Melania Trump argued that sentencing her husband to house arrest would mean cruel and unusual punishment for her. Mrs. Trump wrote that confining her husband to any place where she resides would be a clear violation “not only of the US Constitution, but of the Geneva Conventions.” “Your Honor, you can prevent a humanitarian crisis,” she continued. “The human I speak of is me.” Suggesting an appropriate sentence for her felonious husband, Mrs. Trump wrote, “Prison be best.” Melania Says House Arrest for Trump Would Be Cruel and Unusual Punishment for Her
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 3, 2024 8:40:36 GMT -5
this is a felony that results in prison time about 10% of the time. i would argue that Trump should be imprisoned.and it is not because i don't like him. it is because home confinement is what he has been doing the last four years. that is about as much of a deterrent as a weekend at the beach is for the rest of us. i doubt that actual prison time will have much of an impact on him, but it is more likely to have an impact than anything else that is done. again, i would advocate for at least six months of incarceration and probably 10000 hours of community service. something like that. no fines. fines are how he usually plays the game. don't play his game. As James Comey said about the possibility of incarceration for Trump, "I don't know. It seems unlikely, but I've never seen a defendant beg for it more. By attacking the judge, attacking the jury, attacking the witnesses.... One of the key things in assessing what sentence is appropriate a judge looks at, "So are you sorry for what you did? Are you respecting the system? This defendant is running the other way." Exactly right. Trump's responses all the way through show him as a continuing threat to the judicial system, the judicial process, and public safety. He has also shown through his actions after the Carroll case that he will not be controlled by verdicts or court rulings. Time for that to end. I don't recall if each count carries a four-year maximum, but at a minimum I would go with: Four years on Count 1 (or whichever the judge decides is the most serious or damaging) and four years on every other count with all but 30 days suspended for each. Sentences to run consecutively. That would give him 81 months in prison. I thought the judicial system and process stood up just fine to Trump’s bluster.
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