Privacy v Public Health

[thyme4change]

I know there are tons of laws around medical records, and there are things I am not obligated to tell my employer - but, our President is asking us to keep records of which of our employees are vaccinated.

Normally, I wouldn't have a problem telling anyone. But I know that our President is just an old school guy that wants to get everyone back in the office, and the vaccination could be (somewhat) weaponized against employees. I dont quite trust his motives.

Granted, I will be pretty far down on the list, but, should I volunteer that information? Or should I lie if they directly ask? Or, should I just surrender to my corporate overlords and accept that getting paid and selling out are bed fellows?

[Tennesseer]

Your employer may require everyone to physically report back to work and be vaccinated.

Would the president be ending the work from home option?

Whether it is legal to have that information and take action against any of those who refuse to say if they have or not or refuse to get vaccinated is probably a future court case or two waiting to happen somewhere in the country.

[justme]

No idea the answer, I'm watching to see how this all shakes out.

But my company is wfh through at least end of May and if I don't have my vaccine by the time they open I'm going to ask my doctor about saying I shouldn't until I am so I'd be willing to tell them that 🤷🏻‍♀️

[nidena]

www.hipaajournal.com/common-hipaa-violations/

[giramomma]

I would ant more words.

How is the record keeping done? Excel spreadsheet kept on someone's laptop that isn't very secure?

What's the proof? Some articles tell me that one should expect to produce documentation that you got the vaccine.

Why? Is there a legit need? Is your employer still wanting folks to social distance, and wear masks? Or do they want folks to party like it's 1999?

No one has brought up vaccines yet, at my workplace. But, if I want to work in my office, I have to prove I am covid free every 8 days. Literally, access to my building is tied to an app that knows whether or not I'm deemed safe by medical testing. I really don't consider it an invasion of privacy. I consider it an nuisance. And especially since working in the office isn't even a thing I can consider right now with the kids at home, I'm not motivated to jump through the hoops.

[billisonboard]

I don't think HIPAA is relevant law here.  Your Rights Under HIPAA

[billisonboard]

Feb 24, 2021 21:02:48 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I would ant more words.

How is the record keeping done? Excel spreadsheet kept on someone's laptop that isn't very secure?

What's the proof? Some articles tell me that one should expect to produce documentation that you got the vaccine.

Why? Is there a legit need? Is your employer still wanting folks to social distance, and wear masks? Or do they want folks to party like it's 1999?

No one has brought up vaccines yet, at my workplace. But, if I want to work in my office, I have to prove I am covid free every 8 days. Literally, access to my building is tied to an app that knows whether or not I'm deemed safe by medical testing. I really don't consider it an invasion of privacy. I consider it an nuisance. And especially since working in the office isn't even a thing I can consider right now with the kids at home, I'm not motivated to jump through the hoops.

Employers and Health Information in the Workplace

The Privacy Rule does not protect your employment records, even if the information in those records is health-related. In most cases, the Privacy Rule does not apply to the actions of an employer.

[Opti]

Feb 24, 2021 20:03:16 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I know there are tons of laws around medical records, and there are things I am not obligated to tell my employer - but, our President is asking us to keep records of which of our employees are vaccinated.

Normally, I wouldn't have a problem telling anyone. But I know that our President is just an old school guy that wants to get everyone back in the office, and the vaccination could be (somewhat) weaponized against employees. I dont quite trust his motives.

Granted, I will be pretty far down on the list, but, should I volunteer that information? Or should I lie if they directly ask? Or, should I just surrender to my corporate overlords and accept that getting paid and selling out are bed fellows?

I think some of its going to depend on what kind of workplace you are in. Working in healthcare, my guess is not only my employer might have those records, but the state might as well. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Our company knows who all got a flu shot.  Partially because they administer a lot of them in a free clinic once a year.  We have to have a medical assessment and flu shot to qualify for a monthly credit on our health insurance premium. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I work in Schools, so my answers are probably going to be different. In our state educational staff were second on the vaccine list. If you didn’t get one, you had to put in writing that you were declining. All leave for the last year has come with the question “is this COVID19 related?” Because the answer to that determines what type of leave you get. We also get contact traced every day. Ow I’m expected to test kids for COVID19 of they become symptomatic while at school. I’m so far behind any hint of privacy I don’t even bat an eye anymore.

[thyme4change]

Feb 24, 2021 21:51:41 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Our company knows who all got a flu shot.  Partially because they administer a lot of them in a free clinic once a year.  We have to have a medical assessment and flu shot to qualify for a monthly credit on our health insurance premium. 

If you were covered on your spouse's insurance and got your flu shot at Walgreens, they wouldn't know.

[Opti]

Feb 25, 2021 0:44:06 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I work in Schools, so my answers are probably going to be different. In our state educational staff were second on the vaccine list. If you didn’t get one, you had to put in writing that you were declining. All leave for the last year has come with the question “is this COVID19 related?” Because the answer to that determines what type of leave you get. We also get contact traced every day. Ow I’m expected to test kids for COVID19 of they become symptomatic while at school. I’m so far behind any hint of privacy I don’t even bat an eye anymore.

You have to do rapid tests on kids you suspect of having Covid? 

[thyme4change]

Rumor is my company will give a $25 gift card if you get vaccinated.

[Tiny]

Schools require children to show proof of various vaccinations and what not before the kid can "come to class".   Even college students. 

Often if you want to travel abroad - you have to get/provide proof of various vaccinations (well, I think you do... I might be wrong). 

People are generally pretty open about having got a flu shot and and the "Shingles" shot. 

I'm thinking the Covid19 shot is kind of falling into that area of "public knowledge" about getting the shot or having had Covid19. 

I know when my employer hosts "free flu shot day" - you have to sign up and sign a form and I'm pretty sure my employer knows who did and who may not have gotten a flu shot. 

I think if your employer decides to fire you because you didn't get a covid19 shot or harasses you about  or you get a ding on your yearly appraisal because you "questioned authority" and were insubordinate (by not getting the shot).. you might have a case. 

I personally am hoping that my employer has a "come and get your Covid19 shot day" either at the office or some other way (if someone told me I just had to show up at X place on Y day at Z time  and I didn't have to initiate the whole process or pay for it - I'd make the effort to get to X on Y at Z o'clock).   My employer could probably get 500 people vaccinated as we walk into work.   (about 150 to 200 people are in the office M - F, there are 1000+ employees who "could be" in the office.  and then there are the other 'renters' in the building - I'd guesstimate another 100 people.  And then there's all the support for the building I'm guessing another 50 to 100 people.   I'm pretty sure my employer "owns" the building and handles all the support people and maintenance on the building in some way....)   Setting up a "come and get your shot event" even if people just came for the shot and then left would get a lot of people. 


(ok, if I had to pay for the shot - if I could pre-pay ahead of time I would do that... so, hand in my "reciept" or "ticket" and get my shot.    I could do that.)    

[pulmonarymd]

Feb 27, 2021 16:53:43 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Schools require children to show proof of various vaccinations and what not before the kid can "come to class".   Even college students. 

Often if you want to travel abroad - you have to get/provide proof of various vaccinations (well, I think you do... I might be wrong). 

People are generally pretty open about having got a flu shot and and the "Shingles" shot. 

I'm thinking the Covid19 shot is kind of falling into that area of "public knowledge" about getting the shot or having had Covid19. 

I know when my employer hosts "free flu shot day" - you have to sign up and sign a form and I'm pretty sure my employer knows who did and who may not have gotten a flu shot. 

I think if your employer decides to fire you because you didn't get a covid19 shot or harasses you about  or you get a ding on your yearly appraisal because you "questioned authority" and were insubordinate (by not getting the shot).. you might have a case. 

I personally am hoping that my employer has a "come and get your Covid19 shot day" either at the office or some other way (if someone told me I just had to show up at X place on Y day at Z time  and I didn't have to initiate the whole process or pay for it - I'd make the effort to get to X on Y at Z o'clock).   My employer could probably get 500 people vaccinated as we walk into work.   (about 150 to 200 people are in the office M - F, there are 1000+ employees who "could be" in the office.  and then there are the other 'renters' in the building - I'd guesstimate another 100 people.  And then there's all the support for the building I'm guessing another 50 to 100 people.   I'm pretty sure my employer "owns" the building and handles all the support people and maintenance on the building in some way....)   Setting up a "come and get your shot event" even if people just came for the shot and then left would get a lot of people. 


(ok, if I had to pay for the shot - if I could pre-pay ahead of time I would do that... so, hand in my "reciept" or "ticket" and get my shot.    I could do that.)    

If you are an at will employee, they can fire you for any reason, even not getting vaccinated.

I think any position that involved interacting with the public will eventually require proof of vaccination. International travel will likely require proof as well. The potential of infection to lead to a significant expense should an outbreak happen at work will also be a factor. I also believe health departments will exhibit an increased vigilance in regards to this infection as things open up, in an attempt to tamp down hotspots before it leads to a significant number of cases.

IMHO

[Miss Tequila]

I’m fine with my employer asking me if I was vaccinated. Granted, I don’t actually have one...lol. But i think vaccinations in general are important and Covid, even more so. I can’t see an employer requiring it outside of healthcare, but once it is past emergency use, I would be good with an employer giving a discount on health insurance or a cash payment for getting the vaccine each year.

[laterbloomer]

To me getting a vaccination isn't exactly health information. It tells you nothing about a person's medical history. All it tells you is they live in a place that requires vaccines. So that part of sharing the info doesn't bother me. I am concerned about forcing people to be vaccinated. Forcing medical procedures on people doesn't seem like a feature of a free society to me.

[laterbloomer]

double post

[billisonboard]

Feb 28, 2021 9:13:48 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

To me getting a vaccination isn't exactly health information. It tells you nothing about a person's medical history. All it tells you is they live in a place that requires vaccines. So that part of sharing the info doesn't bother me. I am concerned about forcing people to be vaccinated. Forcing medical procedures on people doesn't seem like a feature of a free society to me.

I don't see where anyone will be forced to get vaccinated. What I see is some "if ..., then ..." situations. Similar to "if you want to be a bartender (at least in my home state), then you have to show evidence you took and passed a test."

[laterbloomer]

Feb 28, 2021 11:57:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 28, 2021 9:13:48 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

To me getting a vaccination isn't exactly health information. It tells you nothing about a person's medical history. All it tells you is they live in a place that requires vaccines. So that part of sharing the info doesn't bother me. I am concerned about forcing people to be vaccinated. Forcing medical procedures on people doesn't seem like a feature of a free society to me.

I don't see where anyone will be forced to get vaccinated. What I see is some "if ..., then ..." situations. Similar to "if you want to be a bartender (at least in my home state), then you have to show evidence you took and passed a test."

The if...thens are forcing people to get the vaccines or lose a lot of their freedoms. It's not the same as getting a license to bartend, that is about being educated and is not physically intrusive. This is threatening to take away people's right to travel, assemble. get educated, shop etc if they don't undergo an intrusive medical procedure. And I don't agree with the argument of doing it so other people will be safe. Let the other people either get vaccinated or they can lose their freedoms.

[thyme4change]

Feb 28, 2021 14:08:49 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Feb 28, 2021 11:57:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I don't see where anyone will be forced to get vaccinated. What I see is some "if ..., then ..." situations. Similar to "if you want to be a bartender (at least in my home state), then you have to show evidence you took and passed a test."

The if...thens are forcing people to get the vaccines or lose a lot of their freedoms. It's not the same as getting a license to bartend, that is about being educated and is not physically intrusive. This is threatening to take away people's right to travel, assemble. get educated, shop etc if they don't undergo an intrusive medical procedure. And I don't agree with the argument of doing it so other people will be safe. Let the other people either get vaccinated or they can lose their freedoms.

It is limiting their choices, not their freedoms. There are currently plenty of places that are congregating - I can't imagine they will change their policies. You can still travel, just maybe you have to drive, or rent a private jet, or start a low cost airline that doesn't have a vaccination mandate. You don't like this choices - then get vaccinated. Using the word freedom won't convince me you should get to spread disease unfettered.

[billisonboard]

Feb 28, 2021 14:08:49 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Feb 28, 2021 11:57:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I don't see where anyone will be forced to get vaccinated. What I see is some "if ..., then ..." situations. Similar to "if you want to be a bartender (at least in my home state), then you have to show evidence you took and passed a test."

The if...thens are forcing people to get the vaccines or lose a lot of their freedoms. It's not the same as getting a license to bartend, that is about being educated and is not physically intrusive. This is threatening to take away people's right to travel, assemble. get educated, shop etc if they don't undergo an intrusive medical procedure. And I don't agree with the argument of doing it so other people will be safe. Let the other people either get vaccinated or they can lose their freedoms.

Who is stopped from travel? No one can stop me from getting in my car and driving wherever I wish. I can assemble with those who choose to exercise their freedom to assemble with me. I may not be able to attend a school but virtual classes will always be available. I may not be able to walk into any store, but I can shop to my heart's content on line.

EDIT: got distracted and was slow posting. Could of just posted "what thyme4change said".

[laterbloomer]

I can see having to get tested, but forcing people to get vaccinated crosses a line. You guys can twist it up all you like, but those restrictions are more than you are acknowledging. It's on par with sterilizing people because you don't think they should reproduce.

[billisonboard]

Feb 28, 2021 14:45:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I can see having to get tested, but forcing people to get vaccinated crosses a line. You guys can twist it up all you like, but those restrictions are more than you are acknowledging. It's on par with sterilizing people because you don't think they should reproduce.

No it isn't.

[laterbloomer]

Feb 28, 2021 14:48:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 28, 2021 14:45:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I can see having to get tested, but forcing people to get vaccinated crosses a line. You guys can twist it up all you like, but those restrictions are more than you are acknowledging. It's on par with sterilizing people because you don't think they should reproduce.

No it isn't.

It really is. Many people want to be sterilized, either vascetomies or tubes tied. But some don't. Forcing anyone to do so because it's better for society is the same. I will say one more time. it crosses a line.

[billisonboard]

Feb 28, 2021 14:51:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Feb 28, 2021 14:48:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

No it isn't.

It really is. Many people want to be sterilized, either vascetomies or tubes tied. But some don't. Forcing anyone to do so because it's better for society is the same. I will say one more time. it crosses a line.

Forced sterilization isn't better for society.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Feb 28, 2021 14:45:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I can see having to get tested, but forcing people to get vaccinated crosses a line. You guys can twist it up all you like, but those restrictions are more than you are acknowledging. It's on par with sterilizing people because you don't think they should reproduce.

Who is forcing anyone to get vaccinated?  I'm seeing some airlines might require it for international travel to avoid quarantine restrictions, but nothing has come of it yet.  Vaccines are required to go to the public schools, but you can always get an exemption saying it's against your beliefs I doubt this will be any different when it comes to school.  Maybe some employers will require it, but I do think most will just offer incentives to get it than make it a condition of employment. 

[laterbloomer]

Feb 28, 2021 14:57:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 28, 2021 14:51:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

It really is. Many people want to be sterilized, either vascetomies or tubes tied. But some don't. Forcing anyone to do so because it's better for society is the same. I will say one more time. it crosses a line.

Forced sterilization isn't better for society.

Some people argue it is, and from a philosophical stand point it can be a strong argument. I thought that we. as a society, had agreed that forcing intrusive medical procedures on people was abhorrent. I can see I was wrong. That bothers me.

[laterbloomer]

Feb 28, 2021 15:03:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Feb 28, 2021 14:45:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I can see having to get tested, but forcing people to get vaccinated crosses a line. You guys can twist it up all you like, but those restrictions are more than you are acknowledging. It's on par with sterilizing people because you don't think they should reproduce.

Who is forcing anyone to get vaccinated?  I'm seeing some airlines might require it for international travel to avoid quarantine restrictions, but nothing has come of it yet.  Vaccines are required to go to the public schools, but you can always get an exemption saying it's against your beliefs I doubt this will be any different when it comes to school.  Maybe some employers will require it, but I do think most will just offer incentives to get it than make it a condition of employment. 

I really hope it stays that way. Here in Canada there is talk of having to get a vaccination passport. I want to be very clear that I am totally against that. And I hope , as you say, nothing comes of it.

[billisonboard]

Feb 28, 2021 15:06:37 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Feb 28, 2021 14:57:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Forced sterilization isn't better for society.

Some people argue it is, and from a philosophical stand point it can be a strong argument. I thought that we. as a society, had agreed that forcing intrusive medical procedures on people was abhorrent. I can see I was wrong. That bothers me.

Yes, there is little or nothing that it can't be said of that "some people argue ...". I agree with you that forcing intrusive medical procedures on people is abhorrent. People should have choice.