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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 14, 2021 17:33:55 GMT -5
I get all that, but 12% of our 65 and older population seems like it would be a really small number. It seems weird to me that we'd still be getting that many deaths a day from them, but maybe there are more old people here than I think. Not really. Your immune system wanes as you get older and the vaccine isn’t as effective in this age group than the population as a whole. When I got immunized for shingles, I asked the pharmacist what the difference was between the Shingrix and chicken pox vaccine. After all, they are the same virus. She told me that people get immunized twice with 4x the amount of vaccine that they’d give a young person against chicken pox. The flu vaccine for elderly is also a higher dose as well, so it may be more logical at this point to go through nursing homes right now and start boosting. This group was immunized last winter, and I imagine that they are now more susceptible than they were 5 months ago immediately after getting vaccinated.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 14, 2021 17:39:42 GMT -5
I get all that, but 12% of our 65 and older population seems like it would be a really small number. It seems weird to me that we'd still be getting that many deaths a day from them, but maybe there are more old people here than I think. I think it would be interesting to see the totals based off the amount tested: 55000 people tested 1500 cases of those, 100 were fully vaccinated.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 14, 2021 17:42:38 GMT -5
There is this lady in our neighborhood. Otherwise she is pretty normal, charitable with her time, and very kind. She is just so strange with the whole COVID and Trump thing. She wants Trump to have full credit for having developed the vaccine, but she refuses to take it.
Not only that, she will actively support businesses that are unmasked. When someone posted on Facebook that their dentists and hygienists in their office are all unmasked, she said something like "Looks like I found me a new dentist". WTH?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 14, 2021 18:01:36 GMT -5
I get all that, but 12% of our 65 and older population seems like it would be a really small number. It seems weird to me that we'd still be getting that many deaths a day from them, but maybe there are more old people here than I think. An acquaintance's mother passed away from covid and she was on the vent for 60 days. When I look at the deaths right now I am wondering how long most of those people have been in the hospital. Like bills said, it seems to be a slow death.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 14, 2021 18:07:39 GMT -5
I get all that, but 12% of our 65 and older population seems like it would be a really small number. It seems weird to me that we'd still be getting that many deaths a day from them, but maybe there are more old people here than I think. The fastest growing part of the population is >80 yo. Mortality increases with age. 8% over 70 and 12% over 80. Death is also a lagging indicator. People dying now were infected last month. People typically get admitted 8 days after infection, and if they are treated aggressively, do not die until 2-4 weeks later. So you are seeing infection from mid-April now
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 14, 2021 18:49:11 GMT -5
The deaths reported currently in Iowa date back to late March/early April. We have no idea what age group is dying of Covid at the present time.
We do know in Iowa, that the most cases are in the 18-29 age group.
My 13 year old great niece got her first shot last night and I received an email from my medical clinic about clinics for kids 12 and over that are being held in the evening and on weekends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 18:59:59 GMT -5
Today I saw a story about businesses who will not admit vaccinated patrons because they believe other female patrons of childbearing age with be rendered infertile by proximity to vaccinated patrons html news.yahoo.com/viral-vaccine-infertility-misinfo-finds-100010035.htmlWhile I staunchly believe in the right of a private business to select their clientele, I am also totally WTF?
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 14, 2021 19:03:29 GMT -5
There is this lady in our neighborhood. Otherwise she is pretty normal, charitable with her time, and very kind. She is just so strange with the whole COVID and Trump thing. She wants Trump to have full credit for having developed the vaccine, but she refuses to take it. Not only that, she will actively support businesses that are unmasked. When someone posted on Facebook that their dentists and hygienists in their office are all unmasked, she said something like "Looks like I found me a new dentist". WTH? Do you live near my mom? That's totally her.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on May 14, 2021 19:06:08 GMT -5
I get all that, but 12% of our 65 and older population seems like it would be a really small number. It seems weird to me that we'd still be getting that many deaths a day from them, but maybe there are more old people here than I think. The fastest growing part of the population is >80 yo. Mortality increases with age. 8% over 70 and 12% over 80. Death is also a lagging indicator. People dying now were infected last month. People typically get admitted 8 days after infection, and if they are treated aggressively, do not die until 2-4 weeks later. So you are seeing infection from mid-April now I found the number. There are 806K in MN over 65, so about 97K of those are not vaccinated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2021 19:14:03 GMT -5
One of the things I still see is a disconnect from what people think they are doing to avoid the virus and what they’re actually doing. It’s been an ongoing battle in my own home.
I would never say this to my best friend, and writing it here is actually the first time I’ve ever expressed it period. But when her Mom died from COVID last year, my BF said she’d done everything she could to keep her safe. She and her Mom lived together and my BF was working from home. Her Mom pretty much stayed home all the time because she had pre-existing conditions. My friend would still go out and hang with her friends though. To me, if Mom wasn’t leaving the house, when she got it, that meant someone brought it home to her. Idk who all was coming and going at the house, but doing everything she could to keep her safe was not exactly a true statement when my friend was still out and about socializing herself, despite being able to work from home. I feel icky just typing that here, but the truth is just the truth. And again, I would never say that to her or even insinuate it.
Even with the available vaccines, I feel like people still need to be careful even after getting vaccinated, especially if they have or are around children too young to get the vaccines, or even around senior citizens with pre-existing conditions that cause them to be more vulnerable. Even if the senior citizens have been vaccinated. My Mom for instance, she already has heart and lung problems among other things and I don’t want to risk even a mild case of the virus being the last straw, the thing that her body just can’t handle on top of everything else.
But that’s just me and how I think.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on May 15, 2021 7:05:14 GMT -5
Yes people need a scapegoat because the consequences of being responsible for their own actions may not be the answer they were looking for.
but in reality..... what would you say to someone reeling in grief because they have just lost a very dear family member? .... nothing... and nor would I.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 15, 2021 7:24:54 GMT -5
I was so happy to live alone during the pandemic because I only had to worry about myself. Trying to worry about a vulnerable person living with me would have been mega stressful. The guilt of having passed it to someone who died from it would be unbearable.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 15, 2021 13:16:58 GMT -5
We in the UK are speeding up our vaccine program because we have quite a big seeding of the Indian variant B.1.617.2 Its more infectious than the UK variant B117 and we think it will soon become our dominant variant.(tripled in a week) Just how much more infectious could have an effect on how quickly we open up....... or whether we get another surge. Our older and vulnerable, who are vaccinated, seem to be getting protection from the vaccine...... but younger ones may spread it around. I hope for your sake and everyone else's that the dramatic increase in the number of cases of B1.617.2 detected by genomic sequencing and analysis is a result of the surge testing that you are doing. I really don't want it to be as infections as that week to week increase implies.
Is there any possibility that an increase in testing in areas of high disease burden may be skewing the pool from which samples are chosen for sequencing and analysis? Or am I just entertaining happy thoughts?
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on May 15, 2021 17:39:30 GMT -5
Your having happy thoughts,... not that there is anything wrong with that.
Current analysis is as described .... but it may change.
Extra resources are being sent to areas which have the infection. Quite what happens now isn't yet clear.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 17:42:33 GMT -5
I was so happy to live alone during the pandemic because I only had to worry about myself. Trying to worry about a vulnerable person living with me would have been mega stressful. The guilt of having passed it to someone who died from it would be unbearable. Same here. DS' SIL (married to DDIL's brother) works at a grocery store in "we-don't-need-no-stinkin-mask" country. Management has done nothing to enforce masking or support other precautions. Customer is always right, I guess. Her elderly father lives with them. Thanks be to God, they seem to have avoided COVID; I'm hoping at this point she's been vaccinated, or at least her father has. She's late 30s/early 40s.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 15, 2021 18:04:21 GMT -5
Blast! I was placing so much hope on your genomic sequencing and analysis and the reporting of what it meant being as shit-tastic, with an overlay of scientific certainty, as our own.
If you knew what a mess our genomic sequencing and variant surveillance was, how inadequate, late, non-representative, and poorly reported it was, you might understand why I had hopes of this being not as bad as it sounded.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 15, 2021 20:07:12 GMT -5
I get all that, but 12% of our 65 and older population seems like it would be a really small number. It seems weird to me that we'd still be getting that many deaths a day from them, but maybe there are more old people here than I think. Not really. Your immune system wanes as you get older and the vaccine isn’t as effective in this age group than the population as a whole. When I got immunized for shingles, I asked the pharmacist what the difference was between the Shingrix and chicken pox vaccine. After all, they are the same virus. She told me that people get immunized twice with 4x the amount of vaccine that they’d give a young person against chicken pox. The flu vaccine for elderly is also a higher dose as well, so it may be more logical at this point to go through nursing homes right now and start boosting. This group was immunized last winter, and I imagine that they are now more susceptible than they were 5 months ago immediately after getting vaccinated. Mich, can you help me? I almost had my dd convinced to get the vaccine when someone sent her a link about the ingredients in the moderna vaccine. The link shows that sm-102 is an ingredient and then they have another link with the safety sheet for the sm-102( www.caymanchem.com/msdss/33474m.pdfOf course, she goes on about how it’s not safe for human consumption (per the link). I got moderna and am not doubting it’s safety. She is in the age group where the J&J is not recommended but some of her friends got it before that risk was known. To her, this is just further proof that the vaccines aren’t safe I tried googling but I’m not a science person and I found nothing explaining why it’s safe. Because of my dd’s profession she is at risk and her antibodies are long gone. I want to present her with facts and am hoping you would help me:-)
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 15, 2021 20:58:15 GMT -5
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 15, 2021 22:12:29 GMT -5
Not really. Your immune system wanes as you get older and the vaccine isn’t as effective in this age group than the population as a whole. When I got immunized for shingles, I asked the pharmacist what the difference was between the Shingrix and chicken pox vaccine. After all, they are the same virus. She told me that people get immunized twice with 4x the amount of vaccine that they’d give a young person against chicken pox. The flu vaccine for elderly is also a higher dose as well, so it may be more logical at this point to go through nursing homes right now and start boosting. This group was immunized last winter, and I imagine that they are now more susceptible than they were 5 months ago immediately after getting vaccinated. Mich, can you help me? I almost had my dd convinced to get the vaccine when someone sent her a link about the ingredients in the moderna vaccine. The link shows that sm-102 is an ingredient and then they have another link with the safety sheet for the sm-102( www.caymanchem.com/msdss/33474m.pdfOf course, she goes on about how it’s not safe for human consumption (per the link). I got moderna and am not doubting it’s safety. She is in the age group where the J&J is not recommended but some of her friends got it before that risk was known. To her, this is just further proof that the vaccines aren’t safe I tried googling but I’m not a science person and I found nothing explaining why it’s safe. Because of my dd’s profession she is at risk and her antibodies are long gone. I want to present her with facts and am hoping you would help me:-) Does your daughter drink alcohol? If so, perhaps she needs to take a look at the MSDS data sheet for ethanol. Very similar toxicities. That would be my argument. If you send her for a Pfizer vaccine, she’d probably find something on the MSDS equally bad.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 15, 2021 22:27:31 GMT -5
Mich, can you help me? I almost had my dd convinced to get the vaccine when someone sent her a link about the ingredients in the moderna vaccine. The link shows that sm-102 is an ingredient and then they have another link with the safety sheet for the sm-102( www.caymanchem.com/msdss/33474m.pdfOf course, she goes on about how it’s not safe for human consumption (per the link). I got moderna and am not doubting it’s safety. She is in the age group where the J&J is not recommended but some of her friends got it before that risk was known. To her, this is just further proof that the vaccines aren’t safe I tried googling but I’m not a science person and I found nothing explaining why it’s safe. Because of my dd’s profession she is at risk and her antibodies are long gone. I want to present her with facts and am hoping you would help me:-) Does your daughter drink alcohol? If so, perhaps she needs to take a look at the MSDS data sheet for ethanol. Very similar toxicities. That would be my argument. If you send her for a Pfizer vaccine, she’d probably find something on the MSDS equally bad. You should read an SDS for hand sanitizer. It's freaking hand sanitizer but reads like something that came out of an evil villain's lab. My coworkers said I was a smart ass when I pointed out the SDS doesn't say you can't inject it so anyone want to test if it actually cures COVID?😆
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 16, 2021 1:22:14 GMT -5
We in the UK are speeding up our vaccine program because we have quite a big seeding of the Indian variant B.1.617.2
Its more infectious than the UK variant B117 and we think it will soon become our dominant variant.(tripled in a week) Just how much more infectious could have an effect on how quickly we open up....... or whether we get another surge. Our older and vulnerable, who are vaccinated, seem to be getting protection from the vaccine...... but younger ones may spread it around. Singapore has closed down again as of (their) midnight Saturday because they saw a rising number of unrelated infections of the Indian variant. More than half are coming in through Changi Airport but despite rather strict quarantine rules some posirtive cases have come through and they had 30 cases on Wednesday. I am glad DS1had his first shot with the second one scheduled in 3 weeks.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on May 16, 2021 6:30:14 GMT -5
Blast! I was placing so much hope on your genomic sequencing and analysis and the reporting of what it meant being as shit-tastic, with an overlay of scientific certainty, as our own.
If you knew what a mess our genomic sequencing and variant surveillance was, how inadequate, late, non-representative, and poorly reported it was, you might understand why I had hopes of this being not as bad as it sounded.
We were so hoping for a nice Summer .......... and this news is putting the scuppers on it. but we have to face the truth and are listening out for our next instructions. Our genomic testing facility was only set up last year.... but they are already inputting huge amounts into the global database.... and sharing the know-how. We know what it is ...... now we need good policy to tackle it. Lets hope for the best ...but be prepared if we have to be.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on May 16, 2021 7:39:47 GMT -5
Not really. Your immune system wanes as you get older and the vaccine isn’t as effective in this age group than the population as a whole. When I got immunized for shingles, I asked the pharmacist what the difference was between the Shingrix and chicken pox vaccine. After all, they are the same virus. She told me that people get immunized twice with 4x the amount of vaccine that they’d give a young person against chicken pox. The flu vaccine for elderly is also a higher dose as well, so it may be more logical at this point to go through nursing homes right now and start boosting. This group was immunized last winter, and I imagine that they are now more susceptible than they were 5 months ago immediately after getting vaccinated. Mich, can you help me? I almost had my dd convinced to get the vaccine when someone sent her a link about the ingredients in the moderna vaccine. The link shows that sm-102 is an ingredient and then they have another link with the safety sheet for the sm-102( www.caymanchem.com/msdss/33474m.pdfOf course, she goes on about how it’s not safe for human consumption (per the link). I got moderna and am not doubting it’s safety. She is in the age group where the J&J is not recommended but some of her friends got it before that risk was known. To her, this is just further proof that the vaccines aren’t safe I tried googling but I’m not a science person and I found nothing explaining why it’s safe. Because of my dd’s profession she is at risk and her antibodies are long gone. I want to present her with facts and am hoping you would help me:-) How closely did she read it? To me, it looks like the main component of interest is a polyethylene glycol(PEG) which are typically very safe. The health concerns on the msds arise bc it’s supplied as a mixture with chloroform. Chloroform is indeed not something you prefer to breathe or inject; but it’s also very volatile and I think it probably gets removed by evaporation at some point during production. mRNAs are administered as liposomes in order to penetrate cells-last I checked liposome extrusion was the bottleneck in manufacturing, requiring expertise and specialized equipment that’s not easily scaled up and that’s your argument against patent waivers. Anyway, liposomes are basically soap bubbles and organic solvents, like chloroform, wreak merry hell with them. HTH
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 16, 2021 7:54:47 GMT -5
Mich, can you help me? I almost had my dd convinced to get the vaccine when someone sent her a link about the ingredients in the moderna vaccine. The link shows that sm-102 is an ingredient and then they have another link with the safety sheet for the sm-102( www.caymanchem.com/msdss/33474m.pdfOf course, she goes on about how it’s not safe for human consumption (per the link). I got moderna and am not doubting it’s safety. She is in the age group where the J&J is not recommended but some of her friends got it before that risk was known. To her, this is just further proof that the vaccines aren’t safe I tried googling but I’m not a science person and I found nothing explaining why it’s safe. Because of my dd’s profession she is at risk and her antibodies are long gone. I want to present her with facts and am hoping you would help me:-) How closely did she read it? To me, it looks like the main component of interest is a polyethylene glycol(PEG) which are typically very safe. The health concerns on the msds arise bc it’s supplied as a mixture with chloroform. Chloroform is indeed not something you prefer to breathe or inject; but it’s also very volatile and I think it probably gets removed by evaporation at some point during production. mRNAs are administered as liposomes in order to penetrate cells-last I checked liposome extrusion was the bottleneck in manufacturing, requiring expertise and specialized equipment that’s not easily scaled up and that’s your argument against patent waivers. Anyway, liposomes are basically soap bubbles and organic solvents, like chloroform, wreak merry hell with them. HTH Not going to lie, it is a bunch of science speak to me so I can’t imagine she understands it anymore than I do. I always try to google to get a counter point to things like this but I couldn’t find anything. Thank you. I will definitely use this with her. She is finally starting to come around to getting the vaccine but I do think she is looking for reasons why it isn’t safe. Doesn’t matter that millions have gotten it without issue. She is 22 and heavily influenced by her BFF’s dad who thinks Covid is the flu and the vaccines are dangerous. He is an eye doctor so zero qualifications to make those statements, but to her he is a “doctor” and knows more. Grrrr
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 16, 2021 7:59:18 GMT -5
Thank you. I think her bigger issue is that she is doubting the safety of all of them. It’s quite frustrating.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 16, 2021 10:02:00 GMT -5
How closely did she read it? To me, it looks like the main component of interest is a polyethylene glycol(PEG) which are typically very safe. The health concerns on the msds arise bc it’s supplied as a mixture with chloroform. Chloroform is indeed not something you prefer to breathe or inject; but it’s also very volatile and I think it probably gets removed by evaporation at some point during production. mRNAs are administered as liposomes in order to penetrate cells-last I checked liposome extrusion was the bottleneck in manufacturing, requiring expertise and specialized equipment that’s not easily scaled up and that’s your argument against patent waivers. Anyway, liposomes are basically soap bubbles and organic solvents, like chloroform, wreak merry hell with them. HTH Not going to lie, it is a bunch of science speak to me so I can’t imagine she understands it anymore than I do. I always try to google to get a counter point to things like this but I couldn’t find anything. Thank you. I will definitely use this with her. She is finally starting to come around to getting the vaccine but I do think she is looking for reasons why it isn’t safe. Doesn’t matter that millions have gotten it without issue. She is 22 and heavily influenced by her BFF’s dad who thinks Covid is the flu and the vaccines are dangerous. He is an eye doctor so zero qualifications to make those statements, but to her he is a “doctor” and knows more. Grrrr It is so unfortunate that she didn't prioritize your experience over ramblings of random people.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 16, 2021 12:31:53 GMT -5
Oh, wow! Brazil, which is getting beat down pretty hard right now has about 8x the deaths in the US in children under 5. Scientists think this is undercounted, and this is despite the fact that the US has a higher death count overall. www.yahoo.com/news/why-covid-killing-many-young-151537544.htmlThey’ve also noted a higher rate of stillborns as well.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 16, 2021 12:42:04 GMT -5
We returned to attending church today. All of us are fully vaccinated, so we really had no reason to continue staying away.
At the end, Fr. asked for a show of hands on who was fully vaxxed, in the process, or committed to getting the vax. Everyone I could see had their hand up. He then mentioned the numbers he got for the other site (we are two merged parishes of 2 or 3 merged sites each). He said of 190 people, only 4 were not planning on getting the vax. He wanted to discuss it with them, not necessarily change their minds but give them info (he had Covid in December, has A-fib now). Three of the 4 are rethinking their position, especially after seeing everyone else with their hand in the air.
As he said, the older members want their freedom back.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 16, 2021 17:09:36 GMT -5
Not going to lie, it is a bunch of science speak to me so I can’t imagine she understands it anymore than I do. I always try to google to get a counter point to things like this but I couldn’t find anything. Thank you. I will definitely use this with her. She is finally starting to come around to getting the vaccine but I do think she is looking for reasons why it isn’t safe. Doesn’t matter that millions have gotten it without issue. She is 22 and heavily influenced by her BFF’s dad who thinks Covid is the flu and the vaccines are dangerous. He is an eye doctor so zero qualifications to make those statements, but to her he is a “doctor” and knows more. Grrrr It is so unfortunate that she didn't prioritize your experience over ramblings of random people. Because she is 22 and thinks the risk of the vaccine is worse than what she will get based on her experience with Covid. She thinks since the rest of us are fully vaccinated that she won’t put us at risk. And that was reinforced since my governor just opened us up and said fully vaccinated people don’t have to wear a mask, don’t have to socially distance and don’t need to test if we get exposed. That just reinforced to her that I’m not at risk by her not getting vaccinated.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on May 16, 2021 17:18:26 GMT -5
Like teen persuasion, today was the first time we've been back to church, in person, since everything was shut down in March 2020. It felt great to see old friends again, even if we had to figure out who they were behind their masks. An old senior friend still hasn't been able to get the vaccine for herself, so I hope she can get it soon.
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