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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 26, 2021 11:47:08 GMT -5
I’m wondering if those who get more severe symptoms of vaccination would be in the group of those who would wind up hospitalized if they caught COVID? I am not sure how you’d tease out this data, but if they could figure this out it would be an interesting study.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 12:19:52 GMT -5
I do find it funny that I posted about my side effects and I get attacked in here by one poster. Yet the same poster hasn’t said a word to anyone else posting about their side effects. Maybe they've been convinced after reading more from other people and sources but aren't ready to admit it.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 26, 2021 12:44:03 GMT -5
I’m wondering if those who get more severe symptoms of vaccination would be in the group of those who would wind up hospitalized if they caught COVID? I am not sure how you’d tease out this data, but if they could figure this out it would be an interesting study. The most interesting and frustrating part of this disease is the inability to determine who will get severe illness. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. Sure, we have risk factors for who is more likely to get it, but many with those risk factors do fine. I am still skeptical that the respiratory failure we see 8-10 days into the illness is due to the infection, and not due to the bodies response to it. Those who get the more severe reactions could be those who have a robust enough immune system to not get severe disease, or those who are at more risk. Who knows. There is data suggesting women have worse reactions to the vaccine than men. Men have a higher risk of dying from infection and sepsis. Coincidence?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 26, 2021 12:45:07 GMT -5
I’m wondering if those who get more severe symptoms of vaccination would be in the group of those who would wind up hospitalized if they caught COVID? I am not sure how you’d tease out this data, but if they could figure this out it would be an interesting study. My mom gets hospitalized for the flu or a bad cold every few years, and has other high risk factors as well, but didnt have any strong reaction to either shot. I think she was a bit disappointed honestly. (Feeling that if you had a reaction at least your body is mounting a strong defense).
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anciana
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Post by anciana on Mar 26, 2021 13:07:20 GMT -5
For anyone not sure about getting vaccinated, keep this in mind. One of my close co-workers started yesterday as just another day, when he got home he found his wife having trouble breathing. She was rushed to the hospital and died just a couple hours later. She was fine when he left for work. I don’t know if it was the new, or old strain of COVID, but it’s still out there. She was 41 and leaves behind her husband and three kids. Tragic
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 26, 2021 13:47:18 GMT -5
I mean, no one will be wearing masks out on the beach. And walking around outside the majority won't be wearing them either. In stores it depends what areas you go to - some counties still have mask mandates and some don't. It'll also vary with capacity at restaurants - though that's even within the same area. I've been to some that if they aren't back at full capacity you coulda fooled me, and then others that are still at lower capacity. It's actually the chains that tended to be a lower capacity over local places. Thanks! Being on the beach or outside doesn't bother me. It's the thought of going into the fun little beach stores and restaurants and being shoulder-to-shoulder with no-maskers that makes me uncomfortable. My daughter went to Jekyll Island with her friend and parents a few months ago and three women entered the Starbucks without masks and started yelling at the barista that it was "their right" not to wear masks. For some reason small-town vacation areas seems to bring out the crazies! We're heading to Anna Maria Island and I'm really hoping for a relaxing few days. Anna Maria island is my favorite place.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Mar 26, 2021 14:02:53 GMT -5
I’m wondering if those who get more severe symptoms of vaccination would be in the group of those who would wind up hospitalized if they caught COVID? I am not sure how you’d tease out this data, but if they could figure this out it would be an interesting study. Seems like you’d need to do an in depth profile of what aspects of the immune system are being upregulated? Seminar I watched earlier this week was implicating the IL-1 and IL-12 pathways in CV19- caused neurological damage. I’m not at all sure you could differentiate necessary upregulation from harm over-upregulation, or figure out who would’ve been hospitalized.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Mar 26, 2021 14:05:22 GMT -5
The immune system is monsterly complicated. Push one thing and might cause huge cascade of changes
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 26, 2021 15:04:18 GMT -5
I’m wondering if those who get more severe symptoms of vaccination would be in the group of those who would wind up hospitalized if they caught COVID? I am not sure how you’d tease out this data, but if they could figure this out it would be an interesting study. Seems like you’d need to do an in depth profile of what aspects of the immune system are being upregulated? Seminar I watched earlier this week was implicating the IL-1 and IL-12 pathways in CV19- caused neurological damage. I’m not at all sure you could differentiate necessary upregulation from harm over-upregulation, or figure out who would’ve been hospitalized. Yeah....I know. I was trying to figure out what panels of cytokines I would run to tease this out. I used to run panels of 25-30 of them at a time, and it got very complicated, very quickly. Thinking about this, you’d have to choose subject populations from vaccinated with severe side effects, vaccinated without, and hospitalized with severe disease. All I can think of is that this would have to be a huge and expensive study.....but incredibly interesting, and up my alley if I was still working. The cost would be considerable.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 26, 2021 15:13:40 GMT -5
Seems like you’d need to do an in depth profile of what aspects of the immune system are being upregulated? Seminar I watched earlier this week was implicating the IL-1 and IL-12 pathways in CV19- caused neurological damage. I’m not at all sure you could differentiate necessary upregulation from harm over-upregulation, or figure out who would’ve been hospitalized. Yeah....I know. I was trying to figure out what panels of cytokines I would run to tease this out. I used to run panels of 25-30 of them at a time, and it got very complicated, very quickly. Thinking about this, you’d have to choose subject populations from vaccinated with severe side effects, vaccinated without, and hospitalized with severe disease. All I can think of is that this would have to be a huge and expensive study.....but incredibly interesting, and up my alley if I was still working. The cost would be considerable. This has been the focus of critical care medicine and sepsis research for ages. We have tried manipulating single interleukins and other ant-inflammatory molecules for over 30 years. It has been an abject failure. Pro and anti- inflammatory cascades overlap, with up and own regulation occurring in concert. It is so overly complex that the only way that we will get a treatment that is effective from these pathways is through serendipity. Otherwise, you need to intervene in these pathways at a "golden hour". Too soon and you will potentially make things worse, and too late, and they do not work. I have seen far too man negative studies in this vein to believe we have anything more than a rudimentary understanding of what we wish to accomplish. JMHO.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Mar 26, 2021 16:05:30 GMT -5
Seems like you’d need to do an in depth profile of what aspects of the immune system are being upregulated? Seminar I watched earlier this week was implicating the IL-1 and IL-12 pathways in CV19- caused neurological damage. I’m not at all sure you could differentiate necessary upregulation from harm over-upregulation, or figure out who would’ve been hospitalized. Yeah....I know. I was trying to figure out what panels of cytokines I would run to tease this out. I used to run panels of 25-30 of them at a time, and it got very complicated, very quickly. Thinking about this, you’d have to choose subject populations from vaccinated with severe side effects, vaccinated without, and hospitalized with severe disease. All I can think of is that this would have to be a huge and expensive study.....but incredibly interesting, and up my alley if I was still working. The cost would be considerable. They are doing amazing things with profiling multiple protein expression patterns at the single cell level across populations of cells these days. I tend to find it hard to wrap my head around the whole how do they DO that process*, my brain is basically mush at this point. But I admire the results *spoiler: with a ton of specialized software and heavy duty computing power
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 16:25:07 GMT -5
I read a fascinating article today about viral presence persisting in the mouth (salivary glands, etc.) long after nasal swabs shows the individual clear of the virus. There was speculation that the mouth may be a greater focus of initial infection than previously recognized, and that this could help explain the often persistent loss of taste and smell. I have a friend 8 months out who still has intermittent taste/smell loss.
I have a friend whose 16-year old twins are participating in a vaccine trial. Sadly, some local freaks are trying to challenge the right of parents to enroll minor children in clinical trials based on lack of parental right to subject minors to experimentation. They are using the whole age of informed consent issue, and in Texas some damn fool judge will probably agree with them. More freaks are even vowing to challenge parental right to consent to Covid-19 vaccination even after clinical trials and emergency use authorization.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 26, 2021 16:46:56 GMT -5
Yeah....I know. I was trying to figure out what panels of cytokines I would run to tease this out. I used to run panels of 25-30 of them at a time, and it got very complicated, very quickly. Thinking about this, you’d have to choose subject populations from vaccinated with severe side effects, vaccinated without, and hospitalized with severe disease. All I can think of is that this would have to be a huge and expensive study.....but incredibly interesting, and up my alley if I was still working. The cost would be considerable. They are doing amazing things with profiling multiple protein expression patterns at the single cell level across populations of cells these days. I tend to find it hard to wrap my head around the whole how do they DO that process*, my brain is basically mush at this point. But I admire the results *spoiler: with a ton of specialized software and heavy duty computing power I know. When I first started this around 1994ish, I could do 6-8 tests on about a 50 ul sample from a homemade kit. 10 years later, we had a robot and lasers which could differentiate 100 different tests from the same sized sample in half the time and 5x the number of samples. The software and computing requirements were mind boggling to do just that. I know it has gotten even more complicated and powerful today.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 26, 2021 16:52:42 GMT -5
I read a fascinating article today about viral presence persisting in the mouth (salivary glands, etc.) long after nasal swabs shows the individual clear of the virus. There was speculation that the mouth may be a greater focus of initial infection than previously recognized, and that this could help explain the often persistent loss of taste and smell. I have a friend 8 months out who still has intermittent taste/smell loss. I have a friend whose 16-year old twins are participating in a vaccine trial. Sadly, some local freaks are trying to challenge the right of parents to enroll minor children in clinical trials based on lack of parental right to subject minors to experimentation. They are using the whole age of informed consent issue, and in Texas some damn fool judge will probably agree with them. More freaks are even vowing to challenge parental right to consent to Covid-19 vaccination even after clinical trials and emergency use authorization. Talk about unintended consequences. I guess you can no longer do cancer treatment trials in minors if they get a favorable ruling. SMH, people just do not think things through
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 26, 2021 17:41:29 GMT -5
I am scheduled.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 26, 2021 18:11:03 GMT -5
I got the pfizer shot today. 48-10.5mon old. West Michigan. The only thing that I think got me in already is BMI over 25, (but under 30). The group with me didn't look particularly old or particularly sick. (I know you can't see everything as far as sickness goes, but there are a lot of obvious ones in my area.) Vaccines are opening to everyone April 5, so I'm guessing they're getting the marginal ones now.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 27, 2021 4:54:55 GMT -5
There is a rumour here, that those who are getting reactions to the vaccines ......... are those who have already encountered Covid19 in the population www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/strong-reaction-first-covid-19-vaccine-may-signal-previous-infection-expertsHow true that is.... I don't really know. Some reaction seems to be quite common, although as an anecdote ...... a colleague told me that he was "absolutely floored" by the vaccine.... and then went on to say that he went out for his usual 5k run that night... and only managed 2K .......Which doesn't sound like "absolutely floored" to me or he would have been in bed. I got no reaction to the AZ vaccine ....... but did prepare.. and made sure I wasn't working the next day just in case (and took some paracetamol) We are just finishing vulnerable groups and over 50s........ There is going to be a vaccine shortage for us now because India are not exporting (they have a big infection rate of their own) and the EU are not exporting. We are making some though on a smaller scale of 1m per week. New vaccine boosters (for variants) should be available for vulnerable and carers in September. Death rates have decreased by 90% because of the vaccination program.... and our predominant (UK variant) is covered by the current vaccines.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2021 6:38:43 GMT -5
Talk about unintended consequences. I guess you can no longer do cancer treatment trials in minors if they get a favorable ruling. SMH, people just do not think things through So how do you handle these tests ethically? Serious question. I'm a grandmother and I'd love my grandchildren to be safely vaccinated but they're 7.4 and almost 2. If DS and DDIL wanted to enroll them in a trial I'd be really nervous abut that. The kids are also too little to understand what risks they're taking. The 16-year olds in donethat's post might be closer to being able to consent. I've seen/read this in multiple places, including from two friends who had COVID and then got the vaccine. One is a doctor. I'm checking out of my hotel later today and then getting my second dose of Moderna at 11 AM and driving home (1.5 hours). If I have any bad reactions I hope they wait!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 27, 2021 7:50:17 GMT -5
DD works in Infectious Disease. Her worst cases are people with diabetes followed by COPD. But diabetes seems to be the most fatal if adding covid to the mix. So far anyway. The hospital I volunteer at has had 198 dead since March 2020. I don’t know if it’s just from covid or having some underlying issues and then getting covid. We are a level one trauma center.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Mar 27, 2021 8:00:13 GMT -5
If parents can’t give consent for minors to be in vaccine trials, then there never will be vaccine trials. As my kids were older, we allowed them input into decisions, but even as teens they are greatly impacted by parents attitude. Now I would never force a 16 yo to participate in a vaccine trial if they had good reasoning not to.
For the risk of participating in a trial, you have a chance to get early access to vaccine. A vaccine which has been extensively tested. I believe that the risk of driving in a car to get the Covid vaccine is greater than any risk from the shot.
My DD got her vaccine a couple weeks ago, and she was 8 months pregnant. She had access to vaccine as a military spouse and got it. Just last week the trial data came out for pregnant women with very good data. Now I hope she can get her 2nd shot before her baby is born.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Mar 27, 2021 8:08:03 GMT -5
I got the pfizer shot today. 48-10.5mon old. West Michigan. The only thing that I think got me in already is BMI over 25, (but under 30). The group with me didn't look particularly old or particularly sick. (I know you can't see everything as far as sickness goes, but there are a lot of obvious ones in my area.) Vaccines are opening to everyone April 5, so I'm guessing they're getting the marginal ones now. Congratulations, I am also in west Michigan, and was fortunate enough to get my shots back in February. I think Michigan is doing a pretty good job of vaccinating people. Off topic, but the BMI thing makes me laugh. My BMI is 32, but I’m nowhere close to obese.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Mar 27, 2021 8:48:24 GMT -5
Anecdotal only but a good friend of mine in the UK had a rough case of covid during the summer. He had a pretty strong reaction to the vaccine.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 27, 2021 9:28:33 GMT -5
Talk about unintended consequences. I guess you can no longer do cancer treatment trials in minors if they get a favorable ruling. SMH, people just do not think things through So how do you handle these tests ethically? Serious question. I'm a grandmother and I'd love my grandchildren to be safely vaccinated but they're 7.4 and almost 2. If DS and DDIL wanted to enroll them in a trial I'd be really nervous abut that. The kids are also too little to understand what risks they're taking. The 16-year olds in donethat's post might be closer to being able to consent. I've seen/read this in multiple places, including from two friends who had COVID and then got the vaccine. One is a doctor. I'm checking out of my hotel later today and then getting my second dose of Moderna at 11 AM and driving home (1.5 hours). If I have any bad reactions I hope they wait! These are not easy questions. All studies have to be vetted by an Institutional Review Board, made up of physicians and members of the community. They have final say in whether they feel a study is ethical enough to be done at their institution. In children, there is far more care given to the considerations into even doing a study. There are multiple points where this is decided. But there is always a risk/benefit calculation that needs to be made. It is not easy, but at some point, you need to take the leap from the lab to people. It is the only way to move medicine forward. There are diseases that are unique to children, or manifested so early in life that waiting until 18 will not lead to significant change in their condition. There is no way to test a new treatment on adults. The cure rate for childhood leukemia has improved dramatically, and is better than adult disease. This all happened with parents agreeing to have their children be part of a study. The decision is easier when current treatments are not that effective. Faced with a high likelihood of death versus an unknown chance of cure, many parents will agree to participation. I think the older a child is, the more bout into these a decisions they deserve. As I said, not easy, and I am glad I do not have to make these decisions. Patients who sign up for these trials are the unsung heroes of medicine and deserve our undying thanks. It is why and how medicine moves forward
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 27, 2021 11:44:09 GMT -5
I got the pfizer shot today. 48-10.5mon old. West Michigan. The only thing that I think got me in already is BMI over 25, (but under 30). The group with me didn't look particularly old or particularly sick. (I know you can't see everything as far as sickness goes, but there are a lot of obvious ones in my area.) Vaccines are opening to everyone April 5, so I'm guessing they're getting the marginal ones now. Congratulations, I am also in west Michigan, and was fortunate enough to get my shots back in February. I think Michigan is doing a pretty good job of vaccinating people. Off topic, but the BMI thing makes me laugh. My BMI is 32, but I’m nowhere close to obese. Yeah, I noticed BMI is distorted for tall/muscular men. My DH is skinny and almost overweight, at 23.9 BMI. If he could just get 1.1 more, he could get a vaccine already. I've read some opinions that we should be using waist/height ratio instead. For some reason, I thought you were closer to the middle of the state.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 27, 2021 11:51:26 GMT -5
All right I am giving getting my vaccination a shot. There is a mass vaccination event for Group 1B next week at the MidAmerican Center. I got in for 3:30 on April 2nd.
According to what the guidelines are for Group 1B I technically qualify because I work in agriculture and it's not possible to properly social distance at this job. Which is why I ended up with COVID in the first place. They have done jack and squat to ensure that everyone else here doesn't get it after that and since I am not sure about the posibility of me getting it twice I'm going to go ahead and get my vaccine ASAP.
I feel a little bad because if we ran a fine tooth comb through the subject do I REALLY need it? But then Reynolds has announced everyone qualifies as of April 5th which is three days later so I don't feel too terrible managing to score an appointment three days early.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Mar 27, 2021 12:36:48 GMT -5
Jerseyguy got his second today and I get mine Tuesday We’re making reservations at a great restaurant when we both pass our 2 week post vaccination YAY and so many thanks to all who made these very effective and safe vaccines so very amazingly quickly!!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 27, 2021 13:37:56 GMT -5
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Mar 27, 2021 16:18:42 GMT -5
I got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine on Thursday. I live in Massachusetts. Based on my employment in agriculture, I was eligible for the vaccine on this past Monday, 3/22. But, I got an email on Saturday. 3/20, from the major Boston hospital my primary care doc is affiliated with inviting me to get the vaccine. I logged in promptly and grabbed a slot for this past Thursday. I’m 61, have HBP that is controlled by meds, and carry a little padding around my waist, but am otherwise very fit and active, so no obvious health reason to get the early invite. No real side effects — a little stinging at the injection site and yesterday I MILDLY felt like I was coming down with something, but today I am fine. I go back for the second shot on 4/15.
DH sees a different primary care at a different, smaller, regional hospital. He got an invite on Tuesday (61, with managed HBP, high cholesterol, and a little padding) but can’t get in got his first shot until 4/14. He has spent today trolling the various sites and replying to Twitter alerts trying to grab a sooner appointment. We are rule followers and have been VERY compliant, but our ODS graduates from college in May, with an in-person, albeit outdoor, ceremony and we REALLY want to attend. 🤞🙏
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Mar 27, 2021 16:58:21 GMT -5
There is a rumour here, that those who are getting reactions to the vaccines ......... are those who have already encountered Covid19 in the population www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/strong-reaction-first-covid-19-vaccine-may-signal-previous-infection-expertsHow true that is.... I don't really know. Some reaction seems to be quite common, although as an anecdote ...... a colleague told me that he was "absolutely floored" by the vaccine.... and then went on to say that he went out for his usual 5k run that night... and only managed 2K .......Which doesn't sound like "absolutely floored" to me or he would have been in bed. I got no reaction to the AZ vaccine ....... but did prepare.. and made sure I wasn't working the next day just in case (and took some paracetamol) We are just finishing vulnerable groups and over 50s........ There is going to be a vaccine shortage for us now because India are not exporting (they have a big infection rate of their own) and the EU are not exporting. We are making some though on a smaller scale of 1m per week. New vaccine boosters (for variants) should be available for vulnerable and carers in September. Death rates have decreased by 90% because of the vaccination program.... and our predominant (UK variant) is covered by the current vaccines. “Encountered” = obviously/seriously sick with the virus or simply exposed? I work in essential retail. We see hundreds, often thousands, of customers in a single day in a 145-year old building with lots of small interconnected rooms which make social-distancing nearly impossible. I am absolutely certain I have been exposed to the virus. Boston gave New York City a run for its money in the early first surge in terms of infection rates and deaths. There is no way I wasn’t exposed. Perhaps I was infected but asymptomatic but I have not been ill in the past 15 months. I sailed through my first vaccine. Maybe my response to the second round in 3 weeks will be “interesting”?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 27, 2021 17:42:47 GMT -5
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