Vaccinated

[haapai]

deleted by author. 

[raeoflyte]

Dec 16, 2021 13:33:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 16, 2021 12:17:08 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I can't tell if I'm having a weak moment or not, but since we're all vaccinated I'm feeling like we can loosen up a little. We haven't been visiting my parents for a week to 10 days (or limiting with masks) if we are around my in laws, or anyone unmasked whose precautions are lacking. Which sucks this time of year. We will still stay away if we're sick or if we think we could have been exposed to even a bad cold.

I wish the sites gave more details about vaccinated vs. Not. I keep seeing this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, but with the #'s high its hard to feel like I can make informed decisions.

The total strain on Healthcare I think will take a long time to resolve.

My biggest concern right now is Delta variance versus the new variance.
No real breakdown between the two, but media seems to blur the lines of one being so deadly and creating the hospitalizations and the Omnicron is barely getting started here. 
The scary part is people who are vaccinated are now capable of spreading covid. Two weeks ago it was all about the unvaccinated killing everyone and spreading covid to  the vaccinated.

I don't think it's new that vaccinated people are spreading it. I feel like that was confirmed over the summer.

But vaccinated people spreading it to other vaccinated people should be low risk all the way around.

[haapai]

It's not all that low-risk when one of the vaccinated person is old or immune-compromised or is in contact with someone who is. 

[raeoflyte]

Dec 16, 2021 14:52:15 GMT -5 haapai said:

It's not all that low-risk when one of the vaccinated person is old or immune-compromised or is in contact with someone who is. 

Agreed - and my mom is immune compromised (chrohns disease), so I'll be grateful when we have more data to know real risk in that scenario. But if almost all hospitalized patients are not vaccinated, I'm assuming that vaccinated people aren't infecting other vaccinated people at a high rate, or at a high viral load. All adults have booster shots, kids are fully vaccinated and I'm hopeful the 12-15 crowd can get boosters close to 6 months out for ds. We'd still take precautions if we're sick or around anyone else who is sick.

[Spellbound454]

Dec 16, 2021 11:52:50 GMT -5 anciana said:

Dec 16, 2021 11:30:52 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Omicron may be a game changer - it's even more catchy than Delta (and Delta was more catchy than the original Virus).     I'm guessing that it's gonna spread like wildfire in the States/Counties/Areas where there is a laissez faire response to Covid19.     Even if it's milder -  I'm gonna guess that it's still not as "mild" as the good old yearly Flu and it will still kill  more people than the flu.     

I think some of the laissez faire response is because  Covid19 does indeed appear to be a Boomer Remover... the majority of deaths have been in the 65yo old and older segment of society.  The next hardest hit group is 50yo to 65yos.     I think the big death numbers for those groups makes the deaths of younger people seem not so bad...  even though they are bad. 


I am VERY HAPPY my Florida family (who travel between Florida and Texas) will NOT be coming North this Holiday Season.     Last year I was willing to chance Covid19 when they visited and wanted to do group things (or indoor outing things) - this year not so much  the spread ability of Omicron worries me.  
 

It's pretty amazing reading about the research that's happening right now as Omicron is spreading and how quickly we're finding out bits and pieces of information and then trying to put it together and use for forecast and planning. 

Last I read was that Omicron is about 4 times more easily spread but about 1/3  less severe then Delta. If that is true, we're still looking at pretty bad winter. I just read this morning that some scientists are finding all kinds of data that Omicron might be multiplying faster in airways and slower in lungs, and wondering if that is why it doesn't appear so severe and spreads that much more, but more investigation is in order, on top of reality that severity of disease in humans is not determined only by virus replication but also by each person's immune response to the infection. 

We reckon the R rate for Omicron is between 3 and 5. They are telling us we will have a sharp peak then it will fall away more quickly...... and yes most people in hospital are younger and unvaccinated right now.

[anciana]

Dec 16, 2021 12:10:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 15, 2021 13:21:55 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

There's no way I'd set foot in the states of FL or TX right now.

We split our time about 50/50 between Indiana and Florida.
Both of us for some reason feel safer in Florida. Indiana is pretty much a hot mess covid wise right now, like much of the midwest and great lakes areas.
I admit neither state's citizens do enough to stay safe, get vaccinated, etc, so it is sort of an apples to apples comparision.
Only difference is Florida is inundated with people from all over the world, plus from the U.S. visiting everyday capable of spreading covid and very few people other than people from Illinois escaping their state and living the dream in Indiana. We should feel safer in Indiana due to less population movement.

And for the naysayers on the board that disagree with me over just about everything, my wife leans in your direction for most discussions here rather than with me, but she is already saying, can we please get back to Florida? We have moved up our departure to before the new year rather than about the 5th of January. 

I don't know if this will help you make that decision between Florida and Indiana, I don't think it will matter much as Omicron will probably spread quickly everywhere:

Omicron found in nearly all of Florida county’s wastewater samples

The new omicron variant made up nearly 100% of the coronavirus strains observed this week in the wastewater samples in one Florida county, Orange County Utilities representative Sarah Lux told The Associated Press.



The county — which houses Orlando, home to theme parks like Walt Disney World and Universal Studios — has yet to confirm any COVID-19 infections involving the strain.

-----

As of Thursday, the county, which has recorded 231,979 cases since the start of the pandemic, is seeing an average of 131 daily cases — a 69% uptick in average from two weeks ago, according to The New York Times’ coronavirus tracker.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 15, 2021 15:06:50 GMT -5 haapai said:

There's bad news for those of you who were secretly hoping that two shots of Moderna would stand up to Omicron better than Pfizer.  Lab studies with the blood of persons with two doses of Moderna showed a dramatic drop in its effectiveness. 

www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/15/1064202754/omicron-evades-moderna-vaccine-too-study-suggests-but-boosters-help

The good news is that the same studies done with blood from patients who had also gotten boosters showed almost the same results against Omicrpn as against Delta. 

So get boosted if you haven't already. 

P.S.  I am absolutely floored by how the UK is pulling out all the stops to get folks boosted.  Also, what the heck is a "high street"?

This is a case where the authors of the article are extrapolating to real life and IMO it isn’t quite as clear cut.  When you take serum from a vaccinated individual, mix it with a pseudo virus, this discounts all the other arms of the immune system that have been primed via vaccination.  It discounts the fact that in a person, when the virus is encountered that there is a quick clonal proliferation of the cells producing the antibody on challenge.  

The article has not been peer reviewed.  It probably will not be as it doesn’t stand up.

[Tiny]

Dec 16, 2021 13:53:32 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Dec 16, 2021 12:10:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

We split our time about 50/50 between Indiana and Florida.
Both of us for some reason feel safer in Florida. Indiana is pretty much a hot mess covid wise right now, like much of the midwest and great lakes areas.
I admit neither state's citizens do enough to stay safe, get vaccinated, etc, so it is sort of an apples to apples comparision.
Only difference is Florida is inundated with people from all over the world, plus from the U.S. visiting everyday capable of spreading covid and very few people other than people from Illinois escaping their state and living the dream in Indiana. We should feel safer in Indiana due to less population movement.

And for the naysayers on the board that disagree with me over just about everything, my wife leans in your direction for most discussions here rather than with me, but she is already saying, can we please get back to Florida? We have moved up our departure to before the new year rather than about the 5th of January. 

It appears to be somewhat seasonal. Florida was a shit show when everyone started hanging out more inside in the summer. The Midwest turned into a shit show when the same thing happened in the fall. Here in Michigan, we're on the downward slope of the latest one.

I think there is a "seasonality" to the spread of Covid. In Florida (and other Southern States) it's time to, turn off the AC, open the windows, and spend time outside and enjoy the nice weather - while people in more Northern States are closing up the house, turning on the heat and staying indoors and avoiding the bad weather.


This is the prime time of the year to be in more Southern States - to escape Winter weather.

[Opti]

Dec 16, 2021 14:29:50 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dec 16, 2021 13:33:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

My biggest concern right now is Delta variance versus the new variance.
No real breakdown between the two, but media seems to blur the lines of one being so deadly and creating the hospitalizations and the Omnicron is barely getting started here. 
The scary part is people who are vaccinated are now capable of spreading covid. Two weeks ago it was all about the unvaccinated killing everyone and spreading covid to  the vaccinated.

I don't think it's new that vaccinated people are spreading it. I feel like that was confirmed over the summer.

But vaccinated people spreading it to other vaccinated people should be low risk all the way around.

Yes, Provincetown was in the news in part due to the fact it confirmed transmission between vaccinated people. 

www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/08/03/provincetown-covid-cluster-shows-the-power-of-vaccines-town-manager-says

Provincetown town is recovering from a July outbreak of nearly 1,000 COVID cases — many of which were among vaccinated people — but town manager Alex Morse said Tuesday that "this is a positive story in some ways" because most of the cases were minor, showing that vaccines work.



"Absent the vaccine, this would have been an incredibly different, dangerous situation," Morse told Jim Braude on GBH's Greater Boston. "We have not seen severe illness, a spike in hospitalization, and we’ve seen zero deaths out of roughly 1,000 cases related to the cluster,” because such a large percentage of the population is vaccinated. He added that seven were hospitalized.

[Opti]

If someone wants to look at stats by age, here's a link.

data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku/data

Notice they slice and dice the age ranges a few different ways. The 75 to 84 group does not have the largest amount of deaths, but it is beaten by the age range of 85+ which probably amounts to 85 to 110ish.

[Opti]

Dec 16, 2021 11:30:52 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Dec 15, 2021 13:50:29 GMT -5 haapai said:

Right now those are two of the safest states to be.  They have great new case numbers compared to the places with snow on the ground and wind warnings for tonight. 

On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't want to stay there for any length of time. With their low vaccination numbers, particularly among the elderly, they are cruising for a bruising.  I would not want to be there when their hospitals fill up.  Nor would I want to fly there.  Nor would I particularly enjoy my time there.  I'd probably go a bit mad being around folks that thought so differently than me and were doing things that I just could not get used to doing because I'd have to change gears so dramatically when I went home. 

Omicron may be a game changer - it's even more catchy than Delta (and Delta was more catchy than the original Virus).     I'm guessing that it's gonna spread like wildfire in the States/Counties/Areas where there is a laissez faire response to Covid19.     Even if it's milder -  I'm gonna guess that it's still not as "mild" as the good old yearly Flu and it will still kill  more people than the flu.     

I think some of the laissez faire response is because  Covid19 does indeed appear to be a Boomer Remover... the majority of deaths have been in the 65yo old and older segment of society.  The next hardest hit group is 50yo to 65yos.     I think the big death numbers for those groups makes the deaths of younger people seem not so bad...  even though they are bad. 


I am VERY HAPPY my Florida family (who travel between Florida and Texas) will NOT be coming North this Holiday Season.     Last year I was willing to chance Covid19 when they visited and wanted to do group things (or indoor outing things) - this year not so much  the spread ability of Omicron worries me.  
 

Contrary to what I see on the board now and then, the Boomer generation is not 50+ years long. Per stats in another post, 85+ has the highest death total, followed by 75 to 84, with 65 to 74 below that. I forget if its 75 or 74 for the top age of someone born in 1946, the beginning of the Boom generation. 

[Opti]

I put this is the Rand Paul thread as it was in a tweet response to his crazy tweet. The URL has a table on exposure needed to be infected
from unmaksed to fitted N95 masks. The times are prior to Delta and Omnicron so actual times to infection might be less than what's in the table.


www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-1-science-behind-covid-19-protection

[teen persuasion]

Blargh, I swear fewer people are wearing masks now that we have a statewide mask mandate, than before. They are just blatantly thumbing their exposed noses at the governor, because some stupid local politicians are pushing back and refusing to enforce the mandates.

The worst offenders that I saw are the young parents, whose kids are too young to be vaxxed. The older the shoppers in the stores, the more likely they had a mask on.

Also, the more trendy they dressed, the more likely they didn't have a mask. Not sure if it's affluence, or greater consumption of social media influencers, or

[teen persuasion]

Sounds like DS2 has Covid.

We had been messaging back and forth, asking which of the kids could/would go to grandma's for Christmas. He was concerned about possibly carrying the virus to them unknowingly - despite the state mask mandate, his coworkers weren't all wearing masks, and no one was enforcing it. A day later, and he doesn't feel well.

He'd just gotten his booster last Tuesday, so it hadn't had time to fully kick in.

[Spellbound454]

Same here,

(The youngsters had insisted that no-one was going to tell them what to do, so they went partying)


DD1 got a sore throat on Friday followed by a cough... and was in bed all weekend with chills and muscle aches.

She had her booster on Monday, having tested negative, several times on the lateral flow ....... and is blaming the injection for not feeling well, although she did have symptoms days before.

She's having a PCR today.....


She won't be coming for Christmas unless that is negative too......... because this sure looks like Covid.

[jerseygirl]

Walter Reed army scientists working on vaccine supposedly for all Covid variants
Also Pfizer oral treatment approved by FDA
Oral treatment very good news!


www.defenseone.com/?oref=d1-nav

www.reuters.com/

[countrygirl2]

I'm not sure the vaccination rate in Indiana, overall I think 45%. I know our health department has the signs back up and there were several cars there today getting shots.

But the nursing home where MIL is doesn't require the help to be vaccinated, so 2 with covid and now a resident dead from covid. That is crazy people like that around the most vulnerable.

[Value Buy]

Dec 22, 2021 20:39:24 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I'm not sure the vaccination rate in Indiana, overall I think 45%. I know our health department has the signs back up and there were several cars there today getting shots.

But the nursing home where MIL is doesn't require the help to be vaccinated, so 2 with covid and now a resident dead from covid. That is crazy people like that around the most vulnerable.

57% have received at least one shot. 51% have received two shots as of December 21st. Still not enough.

usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/state/indiana

[Spellbound454]

We are being walloped by Omicron at the moment from infection rates..... but there is a spot of good news this morning

BBC are reporting chances of going in to hospital 40/65% reduction from Delta.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59765030

However there are a couple of caveats

Much higher infection rate.......... so a smaller rate of a much higher number could be problematic.
We have high vaccination rates already (as do you) and most people in hospital are unvaccinated.
It will get worse before it gets better.

We are seeing problems in essential services because of staff absences.
Even things like Christmas TV programming and Winters shows have been effected.

They have reduced isolation from 10 days to 7 in the fully vaccinated, so that should mitigate a bit.


I didn't go to our work party...... Just as well because someone there had Covid and now loads of people have gone down with it.
I don't know how it will effect going back to School after the holiday...there is a big shortage of supply teachers.
They did call on recently-retired teachers to go back in..... but not much response. No surprises there, its very risky.

You get first symptoms in 48 hours....ie sore throat /runny nose.

[busymom]

DH went in to get his booster today.  He originally received the Johnson & Johnson version, but this time is getting Pfizer.  He didn't feel any affects after receiving his original vaccination, so I'm playing wait & see, hoping he doesn't get too ill on receiving a different version.

[geenamercile]

I have my booster schedule for Sunday.  Besides that I ordered some of the N95 mask for the girls and I to use at school once break is over instead of the cloth mask we have been using.  YDD got her 2nd shot at the start of this month, oldest was at the end of August.  I don't think there dad has gotten anything yet.  So be it.   

[haapai]

I'm wearing a non-medical N-95 mask to work tonight and for the foreseeable future.  It's the duckbill design which means that it looks silly and is white.  It will probably get quite dirty.  Covering it with a cloth mask to hide design and the dirt is not an option.  It's too large to be covered by any of cloth masks and most of my cloth masks have filters in them. 

It's taking me a while to come to terms with this is all that I can do.  I'm double-jabbed and boosted but still resigned to the very good chance that I will become infected and infect others and that someone in that chain of transmission will not do as well as me.  My infection will likely be mild.  I might not even have symptoms.  It is quite likely that I will not be able to use testing, even rapid testing, to confirm my infection or infectiousness before transmitting it to others.  If I do get a confirmation of infection, I probably will not be able to inform those that I have exposed in a timely manner and prevent them from passing it on.   

I feel like a heel.  I seem to be more a part of the problem than the solution.  

[stillmovingforward]

Dec 23, 2021 16:06:09 GMT -5 haapai said:

I'm wearing a non-medical N-95 mask to work tonight and for the foreseeable future.  It's the duckbill design which means that it looks silly and is white.  It will probably get quite dirty.  Covering it with a cloth mask to hide design and the dirt is not an option.  It's too large to be covered by any of cloth masks and most of my cloth masks have filters in them. 

It's taking me a while to come to terms with this is all that I can do.  I'm double-jabbed and boosted but still resigned to the very good chance that I will become infected and infect others and that someone in that chain of transmission will not do as well as me.  My infection will likely be mild.  I might not even have symptoms.  It is quite likely that I will not be able to use testing, even rapid testing, to confirm my infection or infectiousness before transmitting it to others.  If I do get a confirmation of infection, I probably will not be able to inform those that I have exposed in a timely manner and prevent them from passing it on.   

I feel like a heel.  I seem to be more a part of the problem than the solution.  

Those of us who won't do as well greatly appreciate you trying your best though! 😊

[haapai]

Dec 23, 2021 19:40:33 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

Dec 23, 2021 16:06:09 GMT -5 haapai said:

I'm wearing a non-medical N-95 mask to work tonight and for the foreseeable future.  It's the duckbill design which means that it looks silly and is white.  It will probably get quite dirty.  Covering it with a cloth mask to hide design and the dirt is not an option.  It's too large to be covered by any of cloth masks and most of my cloth masks have filters in them. 

It's taking me a while to come to terms with this is all that I can do.  I'm double-jabbed and boosted but still resigned to the very good chance that I will become infected and infect others and that someone in that chain of transmission will not do as well as me.  My infection will likely be mild.  I might not even have symptoms.  It is quite likely that I will not be able to use testing, even rapid testing, to confirm my infection or infectiousness before transmitting it to others.  If I do get a confirmation of infection, I probably will not be able to inform those that I have exposed in a timely manner and prevent them from passing it on.   

I feel like a heel.  I seem to be more a part of the problem than the solution.  

Those of us who won't do as well greatly appreciate you trying your best though! 😊

Please protect yourselves.  We aren't protecting you at all. 

[Value Buy]

Can anyone answer ths=is question for me?
Government says 61% of Americans are now fully vaccinated.
Does the number of total Americans include the under five years old group, or does it only account for everyone over five years old in the total vaccinated group?

[pulmonarymd]

Looks to be total population

[stillmovingforward]

Dec 23, 2021 19:47:22 GMT -5 haapai said:

Dec 23, 2021 19:40:33 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

Those of us who won't do as well greatly appreciate you trying your best though! 😊

Please protect yourselves.  We aren't protecting you at all. 

Trust me, I do it all! Except i have to go into work. Every little bit helps though.

[azucena]

Dd9, fully vax'd has had cold symptoms since Sunday. Kept her home from school mon-weds which was last day before break. Sent dh out in search of covid test in an attempt to figure out if we go to my mom's gathering tonight. My gut says skip it but I will be the bad guy to all involved.

[thyme4change]

Dec 23, 2021 19:55:57 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Can anyone answer ths=is question for me?
Government says 61% of Americans are now fully vaccinated.
Does the number of total Americans include the under five years old group, or does it only account for everyone over five years old in the total vaccinated group?

Google say 203M - which is ~61% of 330M. I think there are like 20M babies/kids under 5, so math works better to say all people living in US.

[Spellbound454]

Looks like your CDC rules have suggested isolation time for the fully vaccinated, asymptomatic, is being reduced from 10 days to 5

edition.cnn.com/2021/12/27/health/cdc-covid-quarantine-isolation-shortened-recommendation/index.html


We have reduced ours to 7 days but are experiencing up to 25% of healthcare workers in some areas absent due to Covid related reasons.

Oddly, we haven't put new restrictions in before New Year, despite having very high levels of Omicron ... as the data isn't showing the huge amount of hospitalisation as before ....... yet.
(Kind of going it alone on that one and we'll have to see how it pans out)

and Delta is still around, of course.