Real Talk

[imawino]

Jan 11, 2021 22:20:50 GMT -5 gambler said:

I take offense at the term redneck, I have led people of all races under fire and have NO  issue with any of their performances. Red neck is a way of life meaning support is god, country, family and a way life NOT hate against any race. Choose your words more carefully or not until you know the true meaning

A- you're talking crazy.  Redneck has nothin to do with God, country or family.  I'm not saying redneck is a pejorative, it just has nothing to do with the things you seem to think it does.

B- If you're going to try to lecture someone about nonsense, you should at least quote them.  Otherwise everyone just virtually shrugs and says "I have no idea what that fool is on about"

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 13:50:47 GMT -5 tractor said:

Jan 11, 2021 12:39:13 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I am trying to muddle through some more thoughts, maybe you all can help me. I was reading one of the threads here about what happened on Jan 6th, and the posts comparing the responses to the Black Lives Matter protests to the response to the rioters on the 6th, and I keep wondering “why”. I understand that it’s likely that the stage was intentionally set to allow them access to the Capitol by like minded people.

I’ve felt for most of my adult life that the hatred of us is at least in part, rooted in fear. Why though? Is it fear that we will one day decide to make America “pay” for all the atrocities and mistreatment we have and still endure? Or is it more personal, something about us that sparks fear in white men and women? I’ve heard many theories but most of them, it would be impolite for me to repeat them here.

If any of you have ideas or opinions, please share. I could be wrong about the fear, and it’s just ignorance that caused and causes the hatred. If that’s what you think, I’m open to those opinions also.

I will respond with my own personal opinion, please do not hate me for sharing, or classify me as a racist. It occurred to me the other day, that at least in my very limited world, people of color tend to be more outwardly aggressive, and by that I mean they are more willing to put “words into action” and not take BS from anybody. Where most white folks talk a big game, but usually have very little to show for it. Think about all the folks walking around with guns trying to look self-important on TV, not many are people of color (don’t get me wrong, gun violence knows no color, but how many black guys/gals do you see walking around with automatic weapons at large political gatherings?).

I think think inane fear of demonstrated aggression scares many white people, and thus we tend to act out of fear by over compensating before even trying to understand what’s really going on.

I believe the lack of crowd control in DC recently compared to the BLM control techniques demonstrates this very fact. White guys with guns = no balls, therefore, very little fear by security forces. Large groups of black men, wiling to back up words with actions, scares everyone in charge.

So, I’ve thought some about what you wrote.

I live near a city where crime is very bad, including homicides. The majority of the city’s citizens are black, so it’s no surprise that black people commit most (not ALL!) of the crimes that happen in the city. But being black myself, I KNOW and understand that that doesn’t mean all or even most black people are criminals or homicidal maniacs. Just my train of thought, not implying that you said or meant any such thing.

I do see black men with guns on their hip in the city sometimes. Since you have to have a permit in this state to legally do so, I always assume they openly carry for self protection. I don’t really worry about them when I see them, because I don’t intend on bothering them or anyone else. I’m more concerned with the guns I don’t see and won’t until it’s too late.

I myself have guns that I’m not afraid to use. I don’t carry them though, because I’m wary of the fact that I’m licensed to carry being known to LEO in the event of something as simple and supposedly benign as a traffic stop. That was my thought process long before what happened to Philando Castile. His death only reinforced what I already thought. And since I’m mostly a law abiding citizen (I do drive over the speed limit sometimes ), I keep my weapons locked up and don’t carry them.

I’m a woman and I’ll act up with someone intentionally offends me or tries to mistreat me or mine. I’ve done it when an older white man almost ran my daughter over in a parking lot and acted like it was ok and I wasn’t supposed to say anything, I’ve done it when a white man in Mississippi felt like I had no business shopping in his state and felt the need to say it, and I’ve done it when I’ve been called a n_____. My behavior in those instances was probably certainly more aggressive than assertive, but it was due to provocation. That side of me only shows up when provoked. Still, I haven’t and won’t put hands (or worse) on anyone that hasn’t put hands or worse on me or mine first. “Sticks and stones” kinda shit, even though words CAN hurt. Nobody touched me, so nobody got physically hurt.

You do know why we don’t see black people openly carrying weapons of any kind at political gatherings, right? It’s because we know that won’t go well for us, regardless of whose side we claim to be on. If white people are so “afraid” of us and willing to kill us when we don’t even pose a real threat, when we’re just going about our everyday lives sans weapons, we know better than to do that.

I’m not sure how much any of this is relevant to what you said, it’s just the things I thought about in response.

[imawino]

Jan 11, 2021 22:32:26 GMT -5 gambler said:

I am back had to go out and refill the still. All of you the think all Red necks are a bunch of racist need to look really hard at yourselves before blaming every one else for your short coming and beliefs.

2 posts about nothing directed at no one..  You'll need to be a lot more specific, and hopefully a lot more accurate.

Who are the "all" that think "all" rednecks are racists?  What are these specific shortcomings and beliefs you demand "all" fix?  Your post here is so catastrophically out of place in a conversation where people are being open about their biases and beliefs that it's quite jarring.  

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 22:32:26 GMT -5 gambler said:

I am back had to go out and refill the still. All of you the think all Red necks are a bunch of racist need to look really hard at yourselves before blaming every one else for your short coming and beliefs.

Say what?!

The only comment I recall that even mentioned rednecks was one saying that in professional environments, in that poster’s opinion, they don’t seem to be as good at code switching as black people.

Soooooo..... who exactly is blaming “every one else” for their shortcomings and beliefs?

[imawino]

Jan 11, 2021 22:12:59 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Jan 11, 2021 21:14:27 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

First,   

No, I only talk about people’s Momma when they’ve reeeeeally pissed me off.

Personal anecdotes are fine with me. I think that everyone that has shared their thoughts and a little bit about themselves and their story here so far have done so in an effort to be honest, and maybe even a little vulnerable. I say vulnerable, because I ASSume that there’s trust that I won’t take what’s shared and go off on some wild tangent because someone is being honest while trying to be a part of the bigger picture where we help sort this shit out and try to fix some of the things that are very wrong in our country. That was a long, convoluted sentence, but I hope you know what I mean.

I do sincerely appreciate the honesty, stories and thoughts that have been shared. I think maybe we’re learning from each other? So please, don’t hesitate to share your personal anecdotes.

I also appreciate your kind words. This feels like a safe place for me to be honest and open about such things and I’m grateful for the outlet. I feel like if you all disagree with me about something I say or I disagree with someone here, we can disagree and explain why without being disrespectful or intentionally offensive to one another. And if that happens, maybe I’ll learn something or someone else will, so it’s ok. I also feel like it’s better for me to get it out and get feedback..... in a space that’s safe for me and anyone else that’s willing to participate in an honest, respectful conversation..... than for me to bottle it up. Especially, if bottling it up instead of trying to talk through it would result in me becoming someone I don’t want to be. Because I do believe that what we try to suppress tends to end up making it’s presence known anyway, in our perceptions and behavior. As corny as it sounds, I really am all about love, peace and harmony these days. At least, I try to be. I’m still a work in progress in so many ways.

I think we are all on a journey, walking down a road with few signs to tell us where we're going.  It's so amazing to be able to reach out to others on the road, to hear their stories, maybe lean a bit on their shoulders. I don't know anywhere else to have this sort of conversation.  I do believe there is a better day ahead, but it must include everyone or it's not better for anyone.  Today I had a visit with a friend on FB about foods from our past, a past when many of us were poor, about the foods our mothers made from welfare commodity packages, what was a special store-bought food for us if that happened.  Just having one friend who knew what "welfare cheese" meant was huge.  He's 30 years younger than me and gay but we have a beautiful common experience and language.  

I'm the ultimate Debbie Downer today. I'm actually a pretty happy person by nature.  I have, by and large, a great life and while there have been a few tragedies along the way, I can honestly say that every day I think about the multitude of things that I am grateful for or have been lucky about.  So it pains me a bit to be thinking like this, but I'm going to say it anyway.  

Yes, some of us are on a journey.  Some people want to learn and grow and help and understand others.  But I am starting to feel like it's a dangerous path to believe that all people are on a journey, or even that a majority are.  It's just not playing out that way.  10s of millions of people are showing us that's not who they are.  I feel like our collective naivete about who and what those people are is biting us in the collective arse.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 22:55:14 GMT -5 imawino said:

Jan 11, 2021 22:12:59 GMT -5 @donethat said:

I think we are all on a journey, walking down a road with few signs to tell us where we're going.  It's so amazing to be able to reach out to others on the road, to hear their stories, maybe lean a bit on their shoulders. I don't know anywhere else to have this sort of conversation.  I do believe there is a better day ahead, but it must include everyone or it's not better for anyone.  Today I had a visit with a friend on FB about foods from our past, a past when many of us were poor, about the foods our mothers made from welfare commodity packages, what was a special store-bought food for us if that happened.  Just having one friend who knew what "welfare cheese" meant was huge.  He's 30 years younger than me and gay but we have a beautiful common experience and language.  

I'm the ultimate Debbie Downer today. I'm actually a pretty happy person by nature.  I have, by and large, a great life and while there have been a few tragedies along the way, I can honestly say that every day I think about the multitude of things that I am grateful for or have been lucky about.  So it pains me a bit to be thinking like this, but I'm going to say it anyway.  

Yes, some of us are on a journey.  Some people want to learn and grown and help and understand others.  But I am starting to feel like it's a dangerous path to believe that all people are on a journey, or even that a majority are.  It's just not playing out that way.  10s of millions of people are showing us that's not who they are.  I feel like our collective naivete about who and what those people are is biting us in the collective arse.

Yes! That’s exactly what I’ve been feeling but haven’t been able to put into words so succinctly!

[imawino]

Jan 11, 2021 23:03:52 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jan 11, 2021 22:55:14 GMT -5 imawino said:

I'm the ultimate Debbie Downer today. I'm actually a pretty happy person by nature.  I have, by and large, a great life and while there have been a few tragedies along the way, I can honestly say that every day I think about the multitude of things that I am grateful for or have been lucky about.  So it pains me a bit to be thinking like this, but I'm going to say it anyway.  

Yes, some of us are on a journey.  Some people want to learn and grown and help and understand others.  But I am starting to feel like it's a dangerous path to believe that all people are on a journey, or even that a majority are.  It's just not playing out that way.  10s of millions of people are showing us that's not who they are.  I feel like our collective naivete about who and what those people are is biting us in the collective arse.

Yes! That’s exactly what I’ve been feeling but haven’t been able to put into words so succinctly!

I'd say "Yay, glad I could help!"  but it's a pretty depressing sentiment to share.  But I think a fair amount of skepticism and self-protection is the right place to be for now.  No one should be fooled by these sudden calls for "unity" from the people that just tried to tear democracy in two.  From the same people who can't separate themselves from those that are planning more violence at the state capitols and the inauguration.  We should all do what the frog didn't do when the scorpion asked to hitch a ride across the river and just say "no" because those fuckers really just want to drown us all.  

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 23:16:01 GMT -5 imawino said:

Jan 11, 2021 23:03:52 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yes! That’s exactly what I’ve been feeling but haven’t been able to put into words so succinctly!

I'd say "Yay, glad I could help!"  but it's a pretty depressing sentiment to share.  But I think a fair amount of skepticism and self-protection is the right place to be for now.  No one should be fooled by these sudden calls for "unity" from the people that just tried to tear democracy in two.  From the same people who can't separate themselves from those that are planning more violence at the state capitols and the inauguration.  We should all do what the frog didn't do when the scorpion asked to hitch a ride across the river and just say "no" because those fuckers really just want to drown us all.  

Are you the soul sister I never knew I had, or what?

[imawino]

Jan 11, 2021 23:48:47 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jan 11, 2021 23:16:01 GMT -5 imawino said:

I'd say "Yay, glad I could help!"  but it's a pretty depressing sentiment to share.  But I think a fair amount of skepticism and self-protection is the right place to be for now.  No one should be fooled by these sudden calls for "unity" from the people that just tried to tear democracy in two.  From the same people who can't separate themselves from those that are planning more violence at the state capitols and the inauguration.  We should all do what the frog didn't do when the scorpion asked to hitch a ride across the river and just say "no" because those fuckers really just want to drown us all.  

Are you the soul sister I never knew I had, or what?

I'm definitely starting to think so!

[saveinla]

I think if the Republicans want unity they should force the President to say that all the lies he said about the election were wrong and that there was no issue with the elections.

Since that is never going to happen I am not going to support the unity and healing speeches coming from the Republicans. 

[Deleted]

I was just on FB, reading the comments under a post on Brian Sim from Pennsylvania’s page, about Mr. Eugene Goodman, who played a huge role in averting total disaster last Wednesday.

Scrolling through tthe comments, I got to one that asked “how many times this year are Black Americans going to save America from its worst self?”

Screeech! Wait, what?! I had to read it again. And again.

I already felt like it was funny (but not) that a black man risked life and limb by deliberately luring those “people” away from our lawmakers to protect them, when some of those same lawmakers can’t be bothered to use the power given to them to try to protect Mr. Goodman. As some other people who commented on that post said, he could’ve taken off his uniform and left work that day, after helping to save America, and been killed before he made it home just because he was driving while black. A reality that the people he risked his life to protect could use their power to address, but many won’t even try.

When I read that one comment, I thought about him, Stacey Abrams, and I thought about Georgia. We need white America to help us fight injustice, and it looks like the American democracy needs us to survive. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I don’t have time to chat nor have I read this whole thing so it may have been mentioned:
For those who listen to podcasts, there’s actually called code switch. I’m pretty sure it’s on NPR.

[stillmovingforward]

I am going to quickly interject that I married a self-proclaimed "redneck". From a long line of rednecks. He's, you know, that guy down the road that can fix anything for a cold beer and a terrible dad joke who works manual labor jobs, the one with the openly gay white son, black son, black daughter, white daughter and the highly compensated wife. 4 times what he makes.
Saying that, he does hate the "racist rednecks and crackers" that we see and hear about. I think there are very different definitions of what a "redneck" is. Just like any group that gets a label (because i'm an uber liberal feminist, which rednecks are supposed to hate and he is all on-board and loud about it with the rest of us).

[NastyWoman]

Jan 11, 2021 22:20:50 GMT -5 gambler said:

I take offense at the term redneck, I have led people of all races under fire and have NO  issue with any of their performances. Red neck is a way of life meaning support is god, country, family and a way life NOT hate against any race. Choose your words more carefully or not until you know the true meaning

I really think you need to refine the definition of redneck. I have lived in multiple countries, on three different continents, and what you provide as the definition of redneck applies to the majority of people I have met through the years

[stillmovingforward]

Jan 12, 2021 16:45:26 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jan 11, 2021 22:20:50 GMT -5 gambler said:

I take offense at the term redneck, I have led people of all races under fire and have NO  issue with any of their performances. Red neck is a way of life meaning support is god, country, family and a way life NOT hate against any race. Choose your words more carefully or not until you know the true meaning

I really think you need to refine the definition of redneck. I have lived in multiple countries, on three different continents, and what you provide as the definition of redneck applies to the majority of people I have met through the years

I'd agree. My redneck DH has redneck family who won't talk to us and some of them aren't the best parents so they can't be 'about family'. Neither will some of the upper class folks in our town so.....go figure.
Although, I can't see those folks running into fire to defend our country either.

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 12, 2021 16:45:26 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jan 11, 2021 22:20:50 GMT -5 gambler said:

I take offense at the term redneck, I have led people of all races under fire and have NO  issue with any of their performances. Red neck is a way of life meaning support is god, country, family and a way life NOT hate against any race. Choose your words more carefully or not until you know the true meaning

I really think you need to refine the definition of redneck. I have lived in multiple countries, on three different continents, and what you provide as the definition of redneck applies to the majority of people I have met through the years

www.jefffoxworthy.com/jokes

[stillmovingforward]

Jan 12, 2021 17:49:39 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jan 12, 2021 16:45:26 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I really think you need to refine the definition of redneck. I have lived in multiple countries, on three different continents, and what you provide as the definition of redneck applies to the majority of people I have met through the years

www.jefffoxworthy.com/jokes

My kids love those. They name off DH's family members for each one....

[Deleted]

Jan 12, 2021 15:52:35 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I am going to quickly interject that I married a self-proclaimed "redneck". From a long line of rednecks. He's, you know, that guy down the road that can fix anything for a cold beer and a terrible dad joke who works manual labor jobs, the one with the openly gay white son, black son, black daughter, white daughter and the highly compensated wife. 4 times what he makes.
Saying that, he does hate the "racist rednecks and crackers" that we see and hear about. I think there are very different definitions of what a "redneck" is. Just like any group that gets a label (because i'm an uber liberal feminist, which rednecks are supposed to hate and he is all on-board and loud about it with the rest of us).

Your husband sounds like a great guy.

I just tried to think of who I would consider a redneck. I could only think of the folks on Duck Dynasty.

I work with a man that says he’s a member of the Sons of the Confederate, or whatever their name is. He’s a scruffy looking man that lives in rural Mississippi. It’s never occurred to me to consider him a redneck. Some other things maybe, like clueless since he apparently thought we’d continue to have friendly conversations after he made that known, but not a redneck. I guess that’s just not been part of my vocabulary.

[stillmovingforward]

FWIW- DH never thought he'd be close friends with a trans person or have a son who is gay when we first met. But he was never openly racist or sexist either. He's really opened up and has become 'quite the liberal'.

[Deleted]

I think a lot of our problems arise from trying to develop labels for each other, whether the label is based on color, origin, political preference or whatever.  I am most often marginalized when folks choose to see only my color, age, locale, political party, or gender.  For some I am just white, female, hetero, liberal, Democrat, old.  I am all of those, but that's not all of who I am.  I am also grown up from extreme poverty, victim of child sexual abuse, survivor of my childhood, discoverer of my potential, explorer of each new day, still struggling to figure stuff out, still open to learning.  Labels are cool on grocery store shelves but they utterly suck at describing the contents of human beings.  

[nidena]

When I think of the term "racist redneck", I think of Keifer Sutherland's character in A Time to Kill i.e. a very obvious bigoted white supremacist.  At the other end are the "country" folks.  Some are racist.  Some are not.  But most I've come across are just unaware of their bias and privilege.  Kind of like my small-town Indiana cousins.