Real Talk

[Deleted]

I just realized something yesterday. I don’t have many (any) personal relationships with white people in my real life. If not for some of you on these boards, I would REALLY be feeling some type of way about White people these days. I talked with someone yesterday about that, how “my” message board has been the only thing keeping me from going over to the dark side, and it’s still been in my mind.

The honest conversations we have here sometimes, and just reading posts of people that I’ve “known” and chatted with for years who are outraged by some of the same things I’m outraged about myself, are much needed reality checks that help me not totally become someone I really don’t want to be. 

I’ve still struggled a bit over the last few years, even more so over the past year. I’ve been honest about it here at times, and I’m not proud of it, I’m just being honest. But the posts I read here remind me of things I’ve always believed anyway, that races and ethnicities are made up of individuals who do not all think and behave the same. I’ve NEEDED those reminders, they give me hope to counter the hopelessness I’ve sometimes felt recently due to current events that I thought I’d never see happen in my lifetime, and they remind me to not become what I dislike so much myself, a hateful person who judges everyone in certain groups negatively, as if they are all the same.

I just want to say thank you to those of you that have been willing to participate in the difficult conversations, and those of you that are willing speak up for what’s right. Thank you for reminding me that all is not lost, that it doesn’t have to be “us” vs “them” because so many on the “other” side are willing to speak and stand up for ALL of us being treated with basic human decency, dignity and respect. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for ALL of us. All is not lost, because many of us are willing to stand together for those ideals, regardless of our backgrounds and positions in life. I have to keep telling myself that because I’m more fearful for my children and grandchildren and their children, than I have ever been in my life. I want to leave them all a world that they can be safe and thrive in. You all help me try to  believe it can really happen.

I’ve been fond of this little community since way back when, when I learned from you all how to get my money right. As big and meaningful as those lessons were, I think what many of you have shown me with honest conversations and sharing your concerns about basic humanity and rights being extended to all, despite whatever privilege you may have that means it’s not necessarily a personal concern, was even more important for me to see.

And I love y’all for it.

[sesfw]

Well said Pink

I was born and raised in the Los Angeles area in a 'swab jockey' type military family in the 1940s-50s.  We had all types, religions, colors, and philosophies as neighbors so I'm pretty good at living and let live.  I was still there during the Watts riots and had in-law relatives that lived in the Watts area.  Their neighbors protected them from the rioters.

I have spent my whole working life working with the same types, religions, colors, philosophies that I was raised with and don't give it a second thought.  Because I am a very blond white old lady there is only one time I felt my skin color standing out in the crowd.  I had a lunch date with a friend who happened to be a black lady and I went to her home to pick her up.  As I drove into her driveway all of her neighbors came out to check me out.  They seemed to relax when Birdie got in the car with me and we left for lunch.  They came out again when we came back, and smiled and waved.  This was around 1990. 

Now where I work I'm the oldest one there (79).  Of the approx 20 people there, 4 are from Asian countries, 1 lady from Slovenia, 1 man from France (who happens to be black), 1 man from Mexico, 1 lady from Poland.  The rest of us are various shades of light color, of which I'm the lightest.

Told a friend many years ago that if I disliked everyone who's skin was darker than mine I would be in one hell of a fix.

Love you too Pink

[Bonny]

And we love you back! Love your perspective.

My next door neighbor is black but other than that I'm in a mostly White neighborhood. Some Asian and our "pod" of 8; three are Hispanic, one Asian the rest of us are White.  

What most people don't know about this reddish haired person who grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood is that my mother had us head down to South East San Diego and run track on a nearly all Black track team. While having experience being a minority is no substitution for the Black experience it does give one some perspective. I do call out people when they make racist remarks thinking it's o.k. because we're white. 

Being in the real estate business, I have read plenty of deeds including the original condo docs for my mother's condo which had race exclusions. While all of that language is unenforceable I was so proud of the young Asian woman who got a law passed in CA to redact that language. I cannot imagine how hurtful that must feel to read stuff like that.

There are more of us than you think. It's the idiots who get all the noise.

[Tennesseer]

I'm chuckling to myself. I am good friends with my neighbor across the street. He's a black police officer about 20 plus years younger than me.

I am laughing because when I come across something in the house I either don't need like a 25 foot extension cord or two, an industrial garage heater, or new clothing I discover doesn't fit me, I ask my neighbor if his dad can use them (who I have met before along with his mom).

I relate more to his dad than I do his son. I guess it's the age thing.

[thyme4change]

There was a tik tok going around that said "What would you do if all men disappeared for 24 hours" and women were saying they would go for a run at night, or walk to their car without looking over their shoulder, or bend over at work without worrying about it. Then a video came out that asked 'what would you do if all Black men disappeared for 24 hours. I saw zero answers to that one, as if any good could come of answering that one, but I thought about it and I realized I wouldn't even notice. I live in a state with a low African American population. I don't work with any black men. I have a few black neighbors, but I don't see them regularly. If I go to the store, it isn't unusual to see a black man, but it isn't guaranteed, it isn't even often.

I want to understand different people, but find I am very bad with people who aren't in my same situation. I know it is a weakness of mine. I have enjoyed this community because I do talk to a variety of people that I don't get in my regular life.

[irishpad]

@pinkcshmere , that is one of the most beautiful and insightful posts I've ever read!   If I lived near you, I would be honored to be your white, geeky, male friend.   

[mamasita99]

Pink Cashmere, thank you so much for this. As a white woman, I can relate to many of your posts regarding blended families and teenagers so it helps to know I’m not alone out there. And you aren’t alone, either, with fearing for the state of this country and demanding change, this shit has got to stop.

[daisylu]

I was raised in Baltimore and my family is a melting pot of cultures, so I grew up seeing the many different ways people are treated - and how they treat one another. I am "Auntie" to 16 mixed race nieces and nephews. 2 of my nieces are currently college bound to good STEM colleges with full scholarships, but I have seen firsthand how much their mothers (both white) have had to fight to get their children into programs that would foster their interests and further their education. Growing up in that environment, I would never think to treat any skin tone differently than I would treat someone who looked like me. And if I see someone else doing it I will call them out - to the point where DH has told me that I am going to get us shot one day.

But DH grew up in a white working class bubble. He had no classmates that were any other race until high school, and that was 1 student. While he is not racist, he never saw his privilege. He is one of those "Nobody gave me anything, I worked for it" people. In the area that we live in, we were mostly able to avoid the topic for a long time. Enter 2018 - when the federal government was trying to enforce stricter gun laws. That is the first time I ever saw him attend a county meeting. One night he was going on about it, and I laughed at him. When he asked me what I thought was so funny, my reply was along the lines of "So the white man finally has something to fight the government for". This was also around the time that a couple of states started passing extreme abortion laws. I told him to imagine being a woman, with a bunch of old men deciding what you can and cannot do with your own body. Again, living in his bubble he had no idea what anyone else might be going through. That conversation changed him somewhat. He still lives in his bubble, but he is more empathetic.


Also, I work in a male dominated field and whenever I change jobs I get a lot of head patting and doubts about my abilities. It is unfair, but it does drive me to run circles around my male counterparts.


That ended up being a lot longer than I intended.

[TheOtherMe]

Beautifully said, Pink.

I went to what was considered the Black high school in Des Moines.  I became close friends with 3 Black classmates.  I remained friends with one guy until I moved to Colorado.

This was in the late 60's.  We had a racial riot in our high school during a school day.  A lot of things led up to it.  I am sure I don't know the whole story.  I know I don't know it from the perspective of the Black students and I wasn't in the in crowd to know what was going on.

The riot started in the student center.  In looking back, I can not believe what was happening daily in the student center.

We had four corners:  one for the seniors (which had furniture for the popular kids), a junior corner and a Black corner.  I don't know why the administration allowed this.  Several times a year the Black students had the audacity to sit in the furniture in the senior corner.  Talk of it spread though out the school.  I went to the student center every morning before school and during lunch.  

The classmate who has kept our addresses up for over 50 years says not a single Black student wants to be contacted.  We talked about it at one our mini-reunions.  I think she and I were the only ones at the table "got" how terrible we had treated our classmates and how we had it coming.  

The school closed off the student center for the rest of the school year.  When the school was remodeled a few years later, the new student center has curves for walls. 

I am still ashamed of how we acted and out White privilege.  I am angry at my classmates who still don't see what happened daily in the student center was wrong.

[raeoflyte]

I live in a very white bubble. I don't think it started out that way? All of the offices I've worked have essentially 1 black employee (the call centers were more diverse, but only due to size. If you broke it into sections of 20 people it would still be 1 black employee to 19 significantly lighter skinned peers).

My neighborhood is mostly white, all of our kid/family activities were mostly white attended.

The students at the kids school are more brown and black than white, but the teachers and admin are....mostly white.

This board and my facebook are mostly white.

Dh is hispanic, but also mostly white in race and how he was raised.

I'm very uncomfortable with what my 40 year old life looks like and not sure how to change it.

[chiver78]

love you too, lady. 

if I sit back and look at my life lately, it does seem to be a very white bubble. largely bc that's the general population in this area of the state. when it's safe to move about the world again, my circle becomes a lot more diverse. I'm Pasty McWhitey as far as biological heritage, but my extended family has included Hispanic, Black, and Ethiopian additions by way of marriage and adoption. there's also a few LGBTQ folks as well. we are all just people, and nobody is treated any differently than anyone else. 

while I hear some questionable things out of both parents as they age, I was raised to see people as people, whatever their makeup. it was a shock to me when a biracial grade school classmate told me a couple years ago about the widespread racism she and her brothers experienced in our town growing up. how much of that is the white privilege I had in not seeing it, or that I didn't recognize it as I saw it, or what.     it made me incredibly sad to think that I may have inadvertently had a hand in any of it. 

my parents ran a franchise of a local chain coffee shop for awhile when I was in HS (90s). we would be open on Thanksgiving AM, closing at noon. after we had our own holiday meal, we would all go back and hang out in the shop for the night, decorating for the holidays. window painting, displays, etc. I remember one morning, one of the regulars asking my mom a) what the Kwanzaa stuff was, and b) why Hanukkah stuff, didn't we celebrate Christmas?! I'll never forget her answer - I didn't want a little kid to look around while in line and ask "where's my holiday?"  

why did I share this? I don't know. these conversations can definitely be uncomfortable, but I do like how honest we can all be here. 

[Lizard Queen]

I was also raised in a very white bubble. I didn't have many friends growing up, but still managed to become friends with a few black girls here and there.

My area has become more diverse now-- my neighborhood and school has about the same % of black and asian families as overall. Not many hispanics, though. Where I work, on the other hand, there are many hispanics, a mixture of other races, and much too few blacks. Yes, I notice those things. I don't think many black families live in that county, though, and I feel it's likely due to racism. My company has started a diversity and inclusion initiative, and I was asked to join the tactical action team. We're a bunch of white people, and yes, that was observed by members of the group. I fear the whole thing is sort of paying lip-service, but I've also noticed (in general) that some work does get accomplished towards these stated goals that they do, despite the half-hearted methods. So I'm hopeful!

[jerseygirl]

My dad was raised in SC around 20s, 30s but moved to NJ
After middle school. I definitely heard some racist remarks about his time in SC but very few about the present or when I was growing up. Mom had parents from Ireland. I went to Catholic schools mostly with two Black kids in HS. Lots of ‘noise’ between Italians, Polish, Lithauaians Irish- all Catholics but ‘tribalism’ and scepticism about different foods , etc. I married a Polish guy and my parents were sceptical about why I’d go out with someone so different. They made me really nervous about having to eat Polish food when I went to his home for Christmas. Of course it was delicious. So this type of behavior certainly isn’t confined to different races but to ‘The Other’. This seemed to disappear with my kids generation
My town and county has far more Asians than Blacks. Don’t see any evidence if racism to Asians, 2 older GSs taught in China for 5 years, one married there snd lots of Chinese friends. Often we’d have 10-15 Chinese kids staying the weekend with us. I really know so few Blacks I have no experience to draw from.

[azucena]

Pink - thanks for starting this conversation.  I'm always interested in your viewpoint.

I was raised in a small, rural, 100% white town.  So white that POC rarely even stopped to get gas.  Thankfully my parents weren't racist but the vast majority of my town was including my DH's family.  I chose a small college so it wasn't very diverse and neither is my profession.  I make good use of conversations here and other places to educate myself.

My girls each went to very diverse daycare/preschools, and I marveled at the better experience that it was for them.  They're 8 and 12 now in a small private religious school that isn't as diverse which is a drawback.  Roughly 2 out 20 students in each class are POC.  It's fascinating to me that both of them have African American best friends.  Multiple times each daughter has longingly wished for beautiful curly black hair.

DD12 was 6 when Ferguson happened less than an hour away from us.  It came up in conversation when she was about 10, and I had to start at square one for our conversation because she didn't know words like racism or color or African American or black as I simplified it for her.  Her very first question was do I know any black people?  I remember saying, um honey, have you ever noticed that A's skin color is very different from yours?  She paused for a very long time, and it was clear to me that this was a brand new thought for her.

Because of conversations here, I've learned that it's not enough to be colorblind as someone, maybe Drama, put it.  I need to teach them that we need to stand up for injustice as we see it.  This week's conversations with DD12 have included the capitol attack complete with comparisons to police response to BLM protests.

Pink - hoping my sharing gives you hope for the future

[azucena]

Oh, forgot one more point...

DH has made a 175 degree change from where he was when I met him.  Unfortunately, he hasn't made it quite the full 180 degrees.  His family's racist tendencies were strong.  And, he spent his middle school years in a very poor, mostly black town where he was beat up at least weekly by black classmates.  His family's racism goes along with a whole host of other issues.  He knows that I don't tolerate racism, and I've been calling him out on it for as long as I've known him.  Upbringing is a powerful influence though.

When his family or my older relatives make a terrible comment, I used to swiftly change the subject.  Again, through conversations here prompting personal growth, I'm no longer looking the other way.  It's doubtful that I will ever change their minds, but my kids are hearing me say that it's absolutely not okay to say those things.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Having worked at the university for 14 years I forgot how white bread conservative Nebraska and Iowa really are.  It was a huge shock to come where I am at now and I can count the number of non-white people on one hand.  People here also tend to be very conservative.   Our HR person went so far as to boast about how she made a Wal-mart employee cry when asked to put on her mask.

I really started to notice white privilege when I came here and then started noticing more of my own now that I wasn't the "token native English speaker" (my coworkers nickname for me not mine).  It's been quite the culture shock.  I don't like being at a place where everyone just reinforces their own biases and never considers anything new.

It is amazing how much I have absorbed/taken for granted over my lifetime that I was unaware of.  The first time I noticed it was when I got uncomfortable being in an elevator with someone carrying a prayer rug.  I am not proud of this.   Instead of digging in for justification I let myself be ashamed and asked myself WHY did I have that reaction?  Turns out I had been absorbing the messages from the news (and on this very board) about Islam and wasn't even aware my brain was doing it till faced with the situation.

So I started reading after that and have pretty much come to the conclusion about 99% of my life has been a lie.  I benefit immensely from the sheer luck I had to be born white and straight.   While I was aware of that there are still a whole bunch of little systemtic things I was never aware of that have caused me to have quite the extenstial crisis.

I've been forcing DH to go down the path with me.  His family would fit right into this company.   I refuse to be married to someone who thinks some of the things his family thinks.   I teach my children to be better.

What has shocked me the most about this whole thing is when I visited the Joslyn Museum with the kids to see the African American artist exhibit.  One of them was a circle of 12 chairs with white hoods, with a noose above.   Gwen asked me what it was so I stood there and explained the piece to her.  I explained that there are still people to this very day who would hurt her friends simply because of who they are.  It's HER (our) job to speak up, stand up and say this is not okay because when you hide behind your own privilege you allow it to continue.   If hiding is what you have to do to fit in then you should want no part of it.  

I had at least seven people come up to me at random places in the museum to tell me they heard what I said and tell me I was a good mother.   Which while flattering also deeply disturbed me.  I should not be singled out for telling my children these things.   It should be a normal part of parenting.  So normal that nobody notices when you do it.   That was both an extremely sad moment for me and also a good one to be reminded I am not alone out here in flyover country.

[jerseygirl]

Having many more Asians where we live and family, I do notice that tv ads almost w/o exception have Black and/or Hispanics but very rarely Asians
Also seems to be discrimination about Asians accepted to Ivy League or prestigious colleges, HSs
Asians seem not to be granted minority status since in general they are successful

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 8, 2021 13:57:59 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Having many more Asians where we live and family, I do notice that tv ads almost w/o exception have Black and/or Hispanics but very rarely Asians
Also seems to be discrimination about Asians accepted to Ivy League or prestigious colleges, HSs
Asians seem not to be granted minority status since in general they are successful

Adam Ruins Everything did a really good episode that touches on this.  The "model immigrant" and how even what are perceived to be good characteristics are still stereotypes that can harm people.

One of the studies presented has shown that Asians are discriminated against for prestigious colleges because of the stereotypes that they are above average students (Asians are good at math!) so admissions personnell are already predisposed to expecting very high test scores for Asian students.  When they don't see them they reject the application.

Meanwhile that score may be considered quite excellent for a student of any other nationality. 

That is why there is a lot of movement to try to get away from the SAT and ACT.  They don't test you on how smart you are or how successful you will be in college.  They test you on what you know at test taking time.  Then add on that privileged kids can pay to have tutors teach them to take the test that not everyone has access too which gives them an automatic leg up that has nothing to do with how smart they actually are or whether or not they will actually go on to graduate.


Then add on cultural stereotypes that result in the expectation certain groups must get certain scores. .. yeah it's time for it to go.

There is also very real and documented evidence of bias against "ethnic" sounding and even generic white female names (though they still have better luck than an "ethic" sounding name).  When identical applications are submitted without names the discrepancies in admissions disappear and in fact women/minorities get accepted MORE.  Yet when you put an ethnic name on one and a generic white male name on the other, hands down the white guy gets in.   There is also a push to get names and gender/race check boxes removed from applications and everyone gets assigned a number to remove the unconcious bias in admissions.

[jerseygirl]

Actually I think it’s more than just a expecting Asian kids to have high marks
In NYC the mayor definitely is trying to decrease the high % Asians in the very prestigious HSs.
A great many of these kids are poor with non English speaking immigrant families. But great value is put on hard work and education
But they’re not the ‘right kind’ of poor for the very liberal mayor

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 8, 2021 14:22:08 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Actually I think it’s more than just a expecting Asian kids to have high marks
In NYC the mayor definitely is trying to decrease the high % Asians in the very prestigious HSs.
A great many of these kids are poor with non English speaking immigrant families. But great value is put on hard work and education
But they’re not the ‘right kind’ of poor for the very liberal mayor

There are actually scam industries designed to train your kids to get the grades required on the tests to get approval to come over.  It's a problem because universities have been looking the other way because international students bring in huge $$$ and make up a very large portion of their budgets nowadays.  There are two countries that are the main culprits are China and India.  They capitialize on our stereotypes about how students from these countries are so much more smarter than Americans and therefore we tend not to dig deeper.

It was an interesting conversation with some of my coworkers about this.  They are frustrated because it gives them bad names because then people assume that's how they got into their respective programs too.

[jerseygirl]

Jan 8, 2021 15:51:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 8, 2021 14:22:08 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Actually I think it’s more than just a expecting Asian kids to have high marks
In NYC the mayor definitely is trying to decrease the high % Asians in the very prestigious HSs.
A great many of these kids are poor with non English speaking immigrant families. But great value is put on hard work and education
But they’re not the ‘right kind’ of poor for the very liberal mayor

There are actually scam industries designed to train your kids to get the grades required on the tests to get approval to come over.  It's a problem because universities have been looking the other way because international students bring in huge $$$ and make up a very large portion of their budgets nowadays.  There are two countries that are the main culprits are China and India.  They capitialize on our stereotypes about how students from these countries are so much more smarter than Americans and therefore we tend not to dig deeper.

It was an interesting conversation with some of my coworkers about this.  They are frustrated because it gives them bad names because then people assume that's how they got into their respective programs too.

That’s from mainland China
I was referencing the NYC public high schools
GS taught at a private boarding school in NY. Kids from Very wealthy families there to help them access the US colleges. Many of the families had private planes that flew Mom to visit kid at school

[gs11rmb]

Jan 8, 2021 15:51:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 8, 2021 14:22:08 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Actually I think it’s more than just a expecting Asian kids to have high marks
In NYC the mayor definitely is trying to decrease the high % Asians in the very prestigious HSs.
A great many of these kids are poor with non English speaking immigrant families. But great value is put on hard work and education
But they’re not the ‘right kind’ of poor for the very liberal mayor

There are actually scam industries designed to train your kids to get the grades required on the tests to get approval to come over.  It's a problem because universities have been looking the other way because international students bring in huge $$$ and make up a very large portion of their budgets nowadays.  There are two countries that are the main culprits are China and India.  They capitialize on our stereotypes about how students from these countries are so much more smarter than Americans and therefore we tend not to dig deeper.

It was an interesting conversation with some of my coworkers about this.  They are frustrated because it gives them bad names because then people assume that's how they got into their respective programs too.

I used to work for a university (where I also got my Masters) and my program started running into trouble with grad students coming from China who did not have a good command of English.  On paper, everything looked great, but when they arrived they had very poor communication skills.  They started calling the applicants, without having scheduled a meeting, to have a conversation with them before recommending admission.

[Deleted]

Jan 7, 2021 22:45:39 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

There was a tik tok going around that said "What would you do if all men disappeared for 24 hours" and women were saying they would go for a run at night, or walk to their car without looking over their shoulder, or bend over at work without worrying about it. Then a video came out that asked 'what would you do if all Black men disappeared for 24 hours. I saw zero answers to that one, as if any good could come of answering that one, but I thought about it and I realized I wouldn't even notice. I live in a state with a low African American population. I don't work with any black men. I have a few black neighbors, but I don't see them regularly. If I go to the store, it isn't unusual to see a black man, but it isn't guaranteed, it isn't even often.

I want to understand different people, but find I am very bad with people who aren't in my same situation. I know it is a weakness of mine. I have enjoyed this community because I do talk to a variety of people that I don't get in my regular life.

I saw a similar post on FB. The answers were sobering because they clearly showed that the world is different from a woman’s perspective than a man’s when it comes to feeling safe.

[Deleted]

Jan 7, 2021 23:24:59 GMT -5 irishpad said:

@pinkcshmere , that is one of the most beautiful and insightful posts I've ever read!   If I lived near you, I would be honored to be your white, geeky, male friend.   

Thank you. I would be honored to be able to have you as a friend.

[nidena]

Since moving to Indiana, my circle of friends contracted immensely.  Mostly because it was six weeks before the world got locked down.  I miss the opportunity to get out and meet new people.  I've met a lot of new people at work--90% of them white.
I see posts on LinkedIn that encourage folx to check in on their Black coworkers and I'm like...I'm not gonna ask the one Black woman at work if she's doing okay.  I WANT to but damn...talk about singling someone out.  Instead, I try to deepen our mutual veteran bond. 

It amazes me how most people that I work with don't even see the privilege that permeates their life, not excluding the fact that most of them make commissions off selling insurance to and managing money of some VERY wealthy white people.

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2021 10:06:02 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

love you too, lady. 

if I sit back and look at my life lately, it does seem to be a very white bubble. largely bc that's the general population in this area of the state. when it's safe to move about the world again, my circle becomes a lot more diverse. I'm Pasty McWhitey as far as biological heritage, but my extended family has included Hispanic, Black, and Ethiopian additions by way of marriage and adoption. there's also a few LGBTQ folks as well. we are all just people, and nobody is treated any differently than anyone else. 

while I hear some questionable things out of both parents as they age, I was raised to see people as people, whatever their makeup. it was a shock to me when a biracial grade school classmate told me a couple years ago about the widespread racism she and her brothers experienced in our town growing up. how much of that is the white privilege I had in not seeing it, or that I didn't recognize it as I saw it, or what.     it made me incredibly sad to think that I may have inadvertently had a hand in any of it. 

my parents ran a franchise of a local chain coffee shop for awhile when I was in HS (90s). we would be open on Thanksgiving AM, closing at noon. after we had our own holiday meal, we would all go back and hang out in the shop for the night, decorating for the holidays. window painting, displays, etc. I remember one morning, one of the regulars asking my mom a) what the Kwanzaa stuff was, and b) why Hanukkah stuff, didn't we celebrate Christmas?! I'll never forget her answer - I didn't want a little kid to look around while in line and ask "where's my holiday?"  

why did I share this? I don't know. these conversations can definitely be uncomfortable, but I do like how honest we can all be here. 

I think the important thing about you and many of the others posting here, is that when someone you know shared how a situation made them feel or how they were treated, you didn’t just dismiss what they said as if it couldn’t possibly be true. Instead, you looked back, remembering what your perspective was of that situation or time and acknowledged that theirs was different and thought about why.

That’s really all we can ask of each other while we try to get to a better place, is to be willing to grow. Be willing to rethink things we’ve always believed to be true, or always accepted as just how things are, or maybe even think about some things we just never thought about before. And do better when we learn better. Just my opinion.

That was awesome, your parents’ reason for decorating the coffee shop how they did!

You don’t have to have a particular reason to share your thoughts and stories. I agree, it definitely can be uncomfortable, but it’s worth it, because I believe the honest conversations we sometimes have here help all of us grow when we’re open to it.

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2021 13:27:37 GMT -5 azucena said:

Pink - thanks for starting this conversation.  I'm always interested in your viewpoint.

I was raised in a small, rural, 100% white town.  So white that POC rarely even stopped to get gas.  Thankfully my parents weren't racist but the vast majority of my town was including my DH's family.  I chose a small college so it wasn't very diverse and neither is my profession.  I make good use of conversations here and other places to educate myself.

My girls each went to very diverse daycare/preschools, and I marveled at the better experience that it was for them.  They're 8 and 12 now in a small private religious school that isn't as diverse which is a drawback.  Roughly 2 out 20 students in each class are POC.  It's fascinating to me that both of them have African American best friends.  Multiple times each daughter has longingly wished for beautiful curly black hair.

DD12 was 6 when Ferguson happened less than an hour away from us.  It came up in conversation when she was about 10, and I had to start at square one for our conversation because she didn't know words like racism or color or African American or black as I simplified it for her.  Her very first question was do I know any black people?  I remember saying, um honey, have you ever noticed that A's skin color is very different from yours?  She paused for a very long time, and it was clear to me that this was a brand new thought for her.

Because of conversations here, I've learned that it's not enough to be colorblind as someone, maybe Drama, put it.  I need to teach them that we need to stand up for injustice as we see it.  This week's conversations with DD12 have included the capitol attack complete with comparisons to police response to BLM protests.

Pink - hoping my sharing gives you hope for the future

I love the innocence in your conversation when your DD was 10. 

Knowing that there are parents out there like you and others here, does give me hope for the future.  I wish we lived in a world where these conversations you and some of the other posters here are having with your children were unnecessary. But by being willing to have them, you all are raising children that will help the world be a better place. 

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2021 13:47:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Having worked at the university for 14 years I forgot how white bread conservative Nebraska and Iowa really are.  It was a huge shock to come where I am at now and I can count the number of non-white people on one hand.  People here also tend to be very conservative.   Our HR person went so far as to boast about how she made a Wal-mart employee cry when asked to put on her mask.

I really started to notice white privilege when I came here and then started noticing more of my own now that I wasn't the "token native English speaker" (my coworkers nickname for me not mine).  It's been quite the culture shock.  I don't like being at a place where everyone just reinforces their own biases and never considers anything new.

It is amazing how much I have absorbed/taken for granted over my lifetime that I was unaware of.  The first time I noticed it was when I got uncomfortable being in an elevator with someone carrying a prayer rug.  I am not proud of this.   Instead of digging in for justification I let myself be ashamed and asked myself WHY did I have that reaction?  Turns out I had been absorbing the messages from the news (and on this very board) about Islam and wasn't even aware my brain was doing it till faced with the situation.

So I started reading after that and have pretty much come to the conclusion about 99% of my life has been a lie.  I benefit immensely from the sheer luck I had to be born white and straight.   While I was aware of that there are still a whole bunch of little systemtic things I was never aware of that have caused me to have quite the extenstial crisis.

I've been forcing DH to go down the path with me.  His family would fit right into this company.   I refuse to be married to someone who thinks some of the things his family thinks.   I teach my children to be better.

What has shocked me the most about this whole thing is when I visited the Joslyn Museum with the kids to see the African American artist exhibit.  One of them was a circle of 12 chairs with white hoods, with a noose above.   Gwen asked me what it was so I stood there and explained the piece to her.  I explained that there are still people to this very day who would hurt her friends simply because of who they are.  It's HER (our) job to speak up, stand up and say this is not okay because when you hide behind your own privilege you allow it to continue.   If hiding is what you have to do to fit in then you should want no part of it.  

I had at least seven people come up to me at random places in the museum to tell me they heard what I said and tell me I was a good mother.   Which while flattering also deeply disturbed me.  I should not be singled out for telling my children these things.   It should be a normal part of parenting.  So normal that nobody notices when you do it.   That was both an extremely sad moment for me and also a good one to be reminded I am not alone out here in flyover country.

Drama, I have noticed since early last year that you have been doing a lot of thinking and growing. Imagine you had a big sister and she told you she’s proud of you..... I am proud of you!

[Tennesseer]

Jan 8, 2021 13:33:59 GMT -5 azucena said:

Oh, forgot one more point...

DH has made a 175 degree change from where he was when I met him.  Unfortunately, he hasn't made it quite the full 180 degrees.  His family's racist tendencies were strong.  And, he spent his middle school years in a very poor, mostly black town where he was beat up at least weekly by black classmates.  His family's racism goes along with a whole host of other issues.  He knows that I don't tolerate racism, and I've been calling him out on it for as long as I've known him.  Upbringing is a powerful influence though.

When his family or my older relatives make a terrible comment, I used to swiftly change the subject.  Again, through conversations here prompting personal growth, I'm no longer looking the other way.  It's doubtful that I will ever change their minds, but my kids are hearing me say that it's absolutely not okay to say those things.

[chiver78]

Jan 8, 2021 18:47:54 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jan 8, 2021 10:06:02 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

love you too, lady. 

if I sit back and look at my life lately, it does seem to be a very white bubble. largely bc that's the general population in this area of the state. when it's safe to move about the world again, my circle becomes a lot more diverse. I'm Pasty McWhitey as far as biological heritage, but my extended family has included Hispanic, Black, and Ethiopian additions by way of marriage and adoption. there's also a few LGBTQ folks as well. we are all just people, and nobody is treated any differently than anyone else. 

while I hear some questionable things out of both parents as they age, I was raised to see people as people, whatever their makeup. it was a shock to me when a biracial grade school classmate told me a couple years ago about the widespread racism she and her brothers experienced in our town growing up. how much of that is the white privilege I had in not seeing it, or that I didn't recognize it as I saw it, or what.     it made me incredibly sad to think that I may have inadvertently had a hand in any of it. 

my parents ran a franchise of a local chain coffee shop for awhile when I was in HS (90s). we would be open on Thanksgiving AM, closing at noon. after we had our own holiday meal, we would all go back and hang out in the shop for the night, decorating for the holidays. window painting, displays, etc. I remember one morning, one of the regulars asking my mom a) what the Kwanzaa stuff was, and b) why Hanukkah stuff, didn't we celebrate Christmas?! I'll never forget her answer - I didn't want a little kid to look around while in line and ask "where's my holiday?"  

why did I share this? I don't know. these conversations can definitely be uncomfortable, but I do like how honest we can all be here. 

I think the important thing about you and many of the others posting here, is that when someone you know shared how a situation made them feel or how they were treated, you didn’t just dismiss what they said as if it couldn’t possibly be true. Instead, you looked back, remembering what your perspective was of that situation or time and acknowledged that theirs was different and thought about why.

That’s really all we can ask of each other while we try to get to a better place, is to be willing to grow. Be willing to rethink things we’ve always believed to be true, or always accepted as just how things are, or maybe even think about some things we just never thought about before. And do better when we learn better. Just my opinion.

That was awesome, your parents’ reason for decorating the coffee shop how they did!

You don’t have to have a particular reason to share your thoughts and stories. I agree, it definitely can be uncomfortable, but it’s worth it, because I believe the honest conversations we sometimes have here help all of us grow when we’re open to it.

thanks. we lost touch after HS until FB. this will likely out me for sure if she's reading this board, but whatever. in grade school, there was a class that was mixed grades. she and I were seated at a quad with two boys from the grade below ours. one was my BFFs little brother, the other was basically Donald J Trump at 9yo. 🙄 D and I worked on this for weeks, the little brother just played into it,, and finally had this kid convinced we were cousins. D is pretty dark.. he just couldn't wrap his brain around the possibility and we just ran with it.

memories like that used to make me smile bc we were sticking it to the man, so to speak. but now I look back and I'm not sure if I'm sad or angry. I wonder where that kid is now, actually. I'd look him up if I could remember his last name. Mike, I remember. that doesn't narrow it down much.