Real Talk

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 13:50:47 GMT -5 tractor said:

Jan 11, 2021 12:39:13 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I am trying to muddle through some more thoughts, maybe you all can help me. I was reading one of the threads here about what happened on Jan 6th, and the posts comparing the responses to the Black Lives Matter protests to the response to the rioters on the 6th, and I keep wondering “why”. I understand that it’s likely that the stage was intentionally set to allow them access to the Capitol by like minded people.

I’ve felt for most of my adult life that the hatred of us is at least in part, rooted in fear. Why though? Is it fear that we will one day decide to make America “pay” for all the atrocities and mistreatment we have and still endure? Or is it more personal, something about us that sparks fear in white men and women? I’ve heard many theories but most of them, it would be impolite for me to repeat them here.

If any of you have ideas or opinions, please share. I could be wrong about the fear, and it’s just ignorance that caused and causes the hatred. If that’s what you think, I’m open to those opinions also.

I will respond with my own personal opinion, please do not hate me for sharing, or classify me as a racist. It occurred to me the other day, that at least in my very limited world, people of color tend to be more outwardly aggressive, and by that I mean they are more willing to put “words into action” and not take BS from anybody. Where most white folks talk a big game, but usually have very little to show for it. Think about all the folks walking around with guns trying to look self-important on TV, not many are people of color (don’t get me wrong, gun violence knows no color, but how many black guys/gals do you see walking around with automatic weapons at large political gatherings?).

I think think inane fear of demonstrated aggression scares many white people, and thus we tend to act out of fear by over compensating before even trying to understand what’s really going on.

I believe the lack of crowd control in DC recently compared to the BLM control techniques demonstrates this very fact. White guys with guns = no balls, therefore, very little fear by security forces. Large groups of black men, wiling to back up words with actions, scares everyone in charge.

No hatred or judgement here. Your prior post here was a great one, and I appreciate you sharing your honest thoughts in this one. 

I need to give it a bit more thought before I respond, but not because I think you said anything “wrong”.

[gs11rmb]

Jan 11, 2021 13:53:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

It’s amazing to me how so many that were taught all these crazy things never stopped to think for themselves and consider if the things they were taught is really the kind of person they want to be.

When I was around 22yo, I worked in an office with just 2 other people. A middle age white woman and a white man I’m guessing was in his 60’s. The woman was curious about why I spoke so well when she heard so many other black people speak Ebonics or whatever. I didn’t hold it against her because that’s how I tend to talk too, around my family and friends. Many black people have learned to switch up how we speak and carry ourselves depending on where we are and who we’re around. It’s pretty much automatic for me. There’s actually a word that’s been coined for that now, especially when it’s done in a work environment, but I can’t recall it at the moment.

Anyway, one day the man started a conversation with me about how he was raised in Arkansas and taught all those things about black people. He said that as a young man, he started questioning it all and realized it was crazy talk and he didn’t want to be that kind of person. So he chose not to.

By then, we’d been working together for a while, and we worked well together. He’d never been anything but cordial and friendly to me. If he hadn’t told me his story himself, I would’ve never thought he’d been raised the way he described. My respect for him grew after he shared his story.

I know it’s been passed down in families since forever, I just never understood why, and why people never stop to reconsider once they’re old enough to think for themselves. I guess because it works for them, as explained in prior posts.

Since last week, FB has been full of posts asking who the animals really are, since that’s what some refer to Black people as. The point was that the animals were the ones that descended on the Capitol and committed terrible acts, and it certainly wasn’t a huge crowd of black people.

Code switching?

[chiver78]

yup, codeswitching.

[justme]

I don't get why blacks codeswitching apparently just boggles the mind?

Have you heard some full redneck in a professional job vs out? Though actually I have to say they do a shittier job at it from the ones I've seen. 

[NastyWoman]

As a person who grew up on the other side of the world I am following this discussion closely as it helps me understand my "here and now".

Mind you I am not claiming that there is no discrimination in my home country - there is and there is plenty that needs improvement! As a matter of fact I have never lived in a country that was free of it. But the US has a very different flavor and it is rather bitter.

I am learning a lot, so thank you all for your thoughts and especially Pink for starting this thread

[Deleted]

I got busy with housework

Yes! It’s code switching. I thought that was it when I mentioned it and I Googled it earlier. I ran across this in an article on npr.org and found it amusing:

We want to fit in: Very often, people code-switch — both consciously and unconsciously — to act or talk more like those around them. While this can be effective, it can also be perilous, as John Davis told us:

I am a Spanish teacher in a high-needs school in Nashville. I grew up in a homogenous town in rural Pennsylvania. Foreign languages came easily for me, so I majored in Spanish and minored in French at the University of Pittsburgh. When I moved to my school in Nashville, I had to learn another language: Southern, African American English. I entered my learning experience with fervor. My students taught me almost as much as I taught them in my first years. Now that I am well versed in the language, I have trouble code switching back to Standard American English.
One day my principal walked into my room and asked me, "Mr. Davis, I didn't receive your editions to the School Improvement Plan." I replied, "Nah, you flaugin' bruh, I put that on your desk yesterday." My boss froze, with his jaw dropped and one eyebrow raised. After a moment he shook his head and said, "you're spending too much time with the kids." "My bad."

Here’s the link to the full article. 

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 11, 2021 13:33:03 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Have read security groups felt no security threats based on other Trump rallies, also did NOT want to make a large show of force , maybe to decrease provocations??
National Guard called but the NG wanted specific info on what would be required of them and delayed appearing till after capitol was cleared(saw the timeline in today’s WSJ)

Saw an AP news overview comparing ‘overwhelming show of force’ in Seattle re BLM and implying racism. I don’t buy that. The Seattle response shown was after many BLM demonstrations that had been hijacked by violent riots at night in NYC, and fires taking over police station in Seattle.
More appropriate to compare the video in Seattle after few days of fires etc to now at the capitol when there are more national guard snd other security

That's not true. Bill Nye the science guy had more security at the Capitol than the MAGAt insurgence:

[saveinla]

Sam Sanders had a great article on NPR - 

www.npr.org/2021/01/10/955392813/the-lies-we-tell-ourselves-about-race

We are a country built on fabrication, nostalgia and euphemism. And every time America shows the worst of itself, all the contradictions collapse into the lie I've heard nonstop for the last several years: "This isn't who we are."

It all feels new. But it is not. 

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 16:40:19 GMT -5 saveinla said:

Sam Sanders had a great article on NPR - 

www.npr.org/2021/01/10/955392813/the-lies-we-tell-ourselves-about-race

We are a country built on fabrication, nostalgia and euphemism. And every time America shows the worst of itself, all the contradictions collapse into the lie I've heard nonstop for the last several years: "This isn't who we are."

It all feels new. But it is not. 

I read the article, thanks for the link.

It most definitely is not new.

I’ve known all along that racism was alive and well, I’ve said just that on these boards before, and some posters expressed their doubts about the things I said. Still, even I was surprised during Trump’s first campaign for the Presidency, at the sheer numbers of racists and hateful people in our nation. They’d started to become bold enough to show themselves for what they were back then, and over the next 4 years, more and more showed themselves and they kept getting bolder.

So yes, what we’ve seen is a clear picture of who we are and what America really is. So much of the ugliness we’ve tried to deny and keep hidden is out in the open now, for the world to see, so there is no denying it anymore. We’d look like even bigger fools now trying to pretend that what is, isn’t.

[jerseygirl]

Jan 11, 2021 16:20:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jan 11, 2021 13:33:03 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Have read security groups felt no security threats based on other Trump rallies, also did NOT want to make a large show of force , maybe to decrease provocations??
National Guard called but the NG wanted specific info on what would be required of them and delayed appearing till after capitol was cleared(saw the timeline in today’s WSJ)

Saw an AP news overview comparing ‘overwhelming show of force’ in Seattle re BLM and implying racism. I don’t buy that. The Seattle response shown was after many BLM demonstrations that had been hijacked by violent riots at night in NYC, and fires taking over police station in Seattle.
More appropriate to compare the video in Seattle after few days of fires etc to now at the capitol when there are more national guard snd other security

That's not true. Bill Nye the science guy had more security at the Capitol than the MAGAt insurgence:

Not sure what you mean? Bill Nye ??
There wasn’t a large security position for the capitol.
www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Backup-was-denied-Capitol-Police-chief-says-15860394.php

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 14:32:14 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Jan 11, 2021 13:53:56 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

It’s amazing to me how so many that were taught all these crazy things never stopped to think for themselves and consider if the things they were taught is really the kind of person they want to be.

When I was around 22yo, I worked in an office with just 2 other people. A middle age white woman and a white man I’m guessing was in his 60’s. The woman was curious about why I spoke so well when she heard so many other black people speak Ebonics or whatever. I didn’t hold it against her because that’s how I tend to talk too, around my family and friends. Many black people have learned to switch up how we speak and carry ourselves depending on where we are and who we’re around. It’s pretty much automatic for me. There’s actually a word that’s been coined for that now, especially when it’s done in a work environment, but I can’t recall it at the moment.

Anyway, one day the man started a conversation with me about how he was raised in Arkansas and taught all those things about black people. He said that as a young man, he started questioning it all and realized it was crazy talk and he didn’t want to be that kind of person. So he chose not to.

By then, we’d been working together for a while, and we worked well together. He’d never been anything but cordial and friendly to me. If he hadn’t told me his story himself, I would’ve never thought he’d been raised the way he described. My respect for him grew after he shared his story.

I know it’s been passed down in families since forever, I just never understood why, and why people never stop to reconsider once they’re old enough to think for themselves. I guess because it works for them, as explained in prior posts.

Since last week, FB has been full of posts asking who the animals really are, since that’s what some refer to Black people as. The point was that the animals were the ones that descended on the Capitol and committed terrible acts, and it certainly wasn’t a huge crowd of black people.

Code switching?

I didn't know there was a word for it, but I've realized for some time that I do it to some extent depending on the group I'm in - black, white, asian, Hispanic.  Subtle differences in intonation, accent, posture, mannerisms.  

[gs11rmb]

Jan 11, 2021 17:25:59 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Jan 11, 2021 14:32:14 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Code switching?

I didn't know there was a word for it, but I've realized for some time that I do it to some extent depending on the group I'm in - black, white, asian, Hispanic.  Subtle differences in intonation, accent, posture, mannerisms.  

I code switch with my accent.  At first I consciously softened out my Scottish accent simply to be understood.  Twenty years later in general conversation I sound mostly American.  However, as soon as I talk with my family or even about my family or Scotland then my accent comes back.

[irishpad]

code switching.   I didn't know there was a word for it either, ya, sure, you betcha

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 11, 2021 17:21:28 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jan 11, 2021 16:20:26 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

That's not true. Bill Nye the science guy had more security at the Capitol than the MAGAt insurgence:

Not sure what you mean? Bill Nye ??
There wasn’t a large security position for the capitol.
www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Backup-was-denied-Capitol-Police-chief-says-15860394.php

My Twitter links don't always work:
"Replying to
@terryboutonhist
2) There is no doubt the Capitol was left purposefully understaffed as far as law enforcement and there was no federal effort to provide support even as things turned very dark. This contrasts sharply with all of other major protests we have attended. 6/22
"
A lot has been made of the contrast to the overwhelming police presence at Black Lives Matters protests in the fall, and this is certainly true. But there was also A LOT more federal law enforcement presence at every single previous protest we have attended in DC. 7/22
Terry Bouton
@terryboutonhist
·
Jan 10
Most of these protests involved tens of thousands of mostly white, middle-aged people (meaning race wasn’t the only reason for the disparate police presence). Even the March for Science had far more police for a non-partisan event featuring “Bill Nye the Science Guy.” 8/22"

[jerseygirl]

Jan 11, 2021 17:55:51 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jan 11, 2021 17:21:28 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Not sure what you mean? Bill Nye ??
There wasn’t a large security position for the capitol.
www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Backup-was-denied-Capitol-Police-chief-says-15860394.php

My Twitter links don't always work:
"Replying to
@terryboutonhist
2) There is no doubt the Capitol was left purposefully understaffed as far as law enforcement and there was no federal effort to provide support even as things turned very dark. This contrasts sharply with all of other major protests we have attended. 6/22
"
A lot has been made of the contrast to the overwhelming police presence at Black Lives Matters protests in the fall, and this is certainly true. But there was also A LOT more federal law enforcement presence at every single previous protest we have attended in DC. 7/22
Terry Bouton
@terryboutonhist
·
Jan 10
Most of these protests involved tens of thousands of mostly white, middle-aged people (meaning race wasn’t the only reason for the disparate police presence). Even the March for Science had far more police for a non-partisan event featuring “Bill Nye the Science Guy.” 8/22"

Um, that’s exactly what I meant- purposely too little security

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 11, 2021 18:09:22 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jan 11, 2021 17:55:51 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

My Twitter links don't always work:
"Replying to
@terryboutonhist
2) There is no doubt the Capitol was left purposefully understaffed as far as law enforcement and there was no federal effort to provide support even as things turned very dark. This contrasts sharply with all of other major protests we have attended. 6/22
"
A lot has been made of the contrast to the overwhelming police presence at Black Lives Matters protests in the fall, and this is certainly true. But there was also A LOT more federal law enforcement presence at every single previous protest we have attended in DC. 7/22
Terry Bouton
@terryboutonhist
·
Jan 10
Most of these protests involved tens of thousands of mostly white, middle-aged people (meaning race wasn’t the only reason for the disparate police presence). Even the March for Science had far more police for a non-partisan event featuring “Bill Nye the Science Guy.” 8/22"

Um, that’s exactly what I meant- purposely too little security

You were implying that they didn't want to upset the little rioting snowflakes, when this shows even mundane crowd control security levels were noticably higher than this. That is purposely leaving the gate open, not simply trying to keep the calm.

[nidena]

I don't know if "why are whites afraid of Blacks" can be answered in a succinct way.  I sat here for a bit, pondering different things I've gone through in my life, and I think we eventually get to a point where it's just a Pavlovian response.  Both of my grandpas called Black people n***...and Asians were chinks...and Mexicans (or any other hispanic or latino/a person) were spics.  The messages about "lazy n****" started at a very young age and continued for their whole lives, even when I got old enough to say "Grandpa, you can't say that."

However, I can't say that I'm afraid of Black people.  My fear is of their worst stereotype.

Having spent 20 years in the military, I lived and worked in diverse environments.  I'd say "very" but with less than 5% of military peeps being Asian/Pacific Islander, it's really not but there is a higher representation of Blacks in the military than what is in the US population.  Anyhow, we become unafraid by being in more diverse environments rather than sticking to homogenous ones. 

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 18:42:15 GMT -5 nidena said:

I don't know if "why are whites afraid of Blacks" can be answered in a succinct way.  I sat here for a bit, pondering different things I've gone through in my life, and I think we eventually get to a point where it's just a Pavlovian response.  Both of my grandpas called Black people n***...and Asians were chinks...and Mexicans (or any other hispanic or latino/a person) were spics.  The messages about "lazy n****" started at a very young age and continued for their whole lives, even when I got old enough to say "Grandpa, you can't say that."

However, I can't say that I'm afraid of Black people.  My fear is of their worst stereotype.

Having spent 20 years in the military, I lived and worked in diverse environments.  I'd say "very" but with less than 5% of military peeps being Asian/Pacific Islander, it's really not but there is a higher representation of Blacks in the military than what is in the US population.  Anyhow, we become unafraid by being in more diverse environments rather than sticking to homogenous ones. 

I had to Google “Pavlovian response”. I’ll count that as something I learned today.

I wasn’t raised around people that refer to people of other races and ethnicities with slurs and I don’t use them myself. If I intend to return an insult to a white person “cracker” doesn’t quite cut it for me. I prefer something with a little more bite, to insult them personally, or their Momma.

In 1991, Memphis, TN elected a black mayor for the first time, Dr. Willie Herenton. The night of the election was a long, tense night, he won by a slim margin, less than 200 votes more than the incumbent mayor. At some point that night, Harold Ford, the first black man to represent Tennesse in Congress, was on tv. His eyes were red and he looked exhausted. He ranted about the “devils in East Memphis” trying to keep Herenton from becoming the mayor. I don’t remember him saying “white” but I’m sure everyone that was watching knew who he meant. “Devils” is a word I’ve heard many times in reference to white people.

I remember all that because it was a pretty big deal for many people in the area. I was 19yo at the time, old enough to vote, but I didn’t live in the city, and was disappointed that I was unable to vote for Herenton. I settled for the next best thing in my mind, and attended the inauguration, the only one I’ve ever attended. Herenton went on to be re-elected 4 more times IIRC.

Anyway, I doubt I’ll ever forget Mr. Ford’s “devils” comment ON TV.

Anyhow, we become unafraid by being in more diverse environments rather than sticking to homogenous ones.

I agree!

[Lizard Queen]

That is exactly something they mentioned in a diversity class I was taking on Coursera.

[nidena]

Jan 11, 2021 19:38:12 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

That is exactly something they mentioned in a diversity class I was taking on Coursera.

What did they say?

[Deleted]

There are posts circulating on FB with a picture of a fence in Olive Branch, MS, which isn’t all that far from where I live. The fence has signs posted on it that say “We let you vote, now shut up and do as you’re told”. That’s exactly the kind of ignorant shit I expect from some of the people that live in Mississippi. Did I mention that I feel some type of way about that state?

[Lizard Queen]

Jan 11, 2021 19:40:48 GMT -5 nidena said:

Jan 11, 2021 19:38:12 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

That is exactly something they mentioned in a diversity class I was taking on Coursera.

What did they say?

More acceptance or less bias of people different than you if you have more exposure to people different than you.

I'm sorry I can't remember the exact wording. It's only a 4 week class, but it's got such an enormous amount of content involved in those weeks.

[imawino]

Jan 11, 2021 19:33:37 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jan 11, 2021 18:42:15 GMT -5 nidena said:

I don't know if "why are whites afraid of Blacks" can be answered in a succinct way.  I sat here for a bit, pondering different things I've gone through in my life, and I think we eventually get to a point where it's just a Pavlovian response.  Both of my grandpas called Black people n***...and Asians were chinks...and Mexicans (or any other hispanic or latino/a person) were spics.  The messages about "lazy n****" started at a very young age and continued for their whole lives, even when I got old enough to say "Grandpa, you can't say that."

However, I can't say that I'm afraid of Black people.  My fear is of their worst stereotype.

Having spent 20 years in the military, I lived and worked in diverse environments.  I'd say "very" but with less than 5% of military peeps being Asian/Pacific Islander, it's really not but there is a higher representation of Blacks in the military than what is in the US population.  Anyhow, we become unafraid by being in more diverse environments rather than sticking to homogenous ones. 

I had to Google “Pavlovian response”. I’ll count that as something I learned today.

I wasn’t raised around people that refer to people of other races and ethnicities with slurs and I don’t use them myself. If I intend to return an insult to a white person “cracker” doesn’t quite cut it for me. I prefer something with a little more bite, to insult them personally, or their Momma.

In 1991, Memphis, TN elected a black mayor for the first time, Dr. Willie Herenton. The night of the election was a long, tense night, he won by a slim margin, less than 200 votes more than the incumbent mayor. At some point that night, Harold Ford, the first black man to represent Tennesse in Congress, was on tv. His eyes were red and he looked exhausted. He ranted about the “devils in East Memphis” trying to keep Herenton from becoming the mayor. I don’t remember him saying “white” but I’m sure everyone that was watching knew who he meant. “Devils” is a word I’ve heard many times in reference to white people.

I remember all that because it was a pretty big deal for many people in the area. I was 19yo at the time, old enough to vote, but I didn’t live in the city, and was disappointed that I was unable to vote for Herenton. I settled for the next best thing in my mind, and attended the inauguration, the only one I’ve ever attended. Herenton went on to be re-elected 4 more times IIRC.

Anyway, I doubt I’ll ever forget Mr. Ford’s “devils” comment ON TV.

Anyhow, we become unafraid by being in more diverse environments rather than sticking to homogenous ones.

I agree!

The fuck you say about my momma??  

LOL.  I kid.  I mean, unless you really say something about my momma, of course.

Anyway, I'm a day late and a dollar short.  I read your initial post, literally got choked up and had to put it aside.  Not to mention I watched too much riot/insurrection/attempted coup/general fucking insanity coverage and had to take an online break for my well-being.  In all honesty though, I didn't want to respond because I was afraid relaying some personal anecdote seems like it makes it all about me, me, me and I just don't like that and don't want that.  

Like you, I find myself in a pretty homogenous bubble lately, and that saddens me.  It's not that I don't like the people I know (at least most of them), but rather I find I don't really learn anything from them - about the world or about myself.  That's boring.  Luckily, my life has not always been like this, surrounded my (mostly lovely) whitebread people in (mostly lovely) whitebread world.  Places I've lived and worked prior to here were truly diverse and vibrant and I got to know and love people who didn't look like or sound like me.  I should make an effort to expand my circle before my viewpoints narrow.  I owe you a thank you for reminding me of that and bringing it to my attention.  

And I want to relay, again, that your posts are always so great for making me think.  You are so willing to open up about a feeling or experience and share it with us.  It's a great trait, and I think it makes all of us here a little better for reading it.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 20:26:42 GMT -5 imawino said:

Jan 11, 2021 19:33:37 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I had to Google “Pavlovian response”. I’ll count that as something I learned today.

I wasn’t raised around people that refer to people of other races and ethnicities with slurs and I don’t use them myself. If I intend to return an insult to a white person “cracker” doesn’t quite cut it for me. I prefer something with a little more bite, to insult them personally, or their Momma.

In 1991, Memphis, TN elected a black mayor for the first time, Dr. Willie Herenton. The night of the election was a long, tense night, he won by a slim margin, less than 200 votes more than the incumbent mayor. At some point that night, Harold Ford, the first black man to represent Tennesse in Congress, was on tv. His eyes were red and he looked exhausted. He ranted about the “devils in East Memphis” trying to keep Herenton from becoming the mayor. I don’t remember him saying “white” but I’m sure everyone that was watching knew who he meant. “Devils” is a word I’ve heard many times in reference to white people.

I remember all that because it was a pretty big deal for many people in the area. I was 19yo at the time, old enough to vote, but I didn’t live in the city, and was disappointed that I was unable to vote for Herenton. I settled for the next best thing in my mind, and attended the inauguration, the only one I’ve ever attended. Herenton went on to be re-elected 4 more times IIRC.

Anyway, I doubt I’ll ever forget Mr. Ford’s “devils” comment ON TV.

Anyhow, we become unafraid by being in more diverse environments rather than sticking to homogenous ones.

I agree!

The fuck you say about my momma??  

LOL.  I kid.  I mean, unless you really say something about my momma, of course.

Anyway, I'm a day late and a dollar short.  I read your initial post, literally got choked up and had to put it aside.  Not to mention I watched too much riot/insurrection/attempted coup/general fucking insanity coverage and had to take an online break for my well-being.  In all honesty though, I didn't want to respond because I was afraid relaying some personal anecdote seems like it makes it all about me, me, me and I just don't like that and don't want that.  

Like you, I find myself in a pretty homogenous bubble lately, and that saddens me.  It's not that I don't like the people I know (at least most of them), but rather I find I don't really learn anything from them - about the world or about myself.  That's boring.  Luckily, my life has not always been like this, surrounded my (mostly lovely) whitebread people in (mostly lovely) whitebread world.  Places I've lived and worked prior to here were truly diverse and vibrant and I got to know and love people who didn't look like or sound like me.  I should make an effort to expand my circle before my viewpoints narrow.  I owe you a thank you for reminding me of that and bringing it to my attention.  

And I want to relay, again, that your posts are always so great for making me think.  You are so willing to open up about a feeling or experience and share it with us.  It's a great trait, and I think it makes all of us here a little better for reading it.

First,   

No, I only talk about people’s Momma when they’ve reeeeeally pissed me off.

Personal anecdotes are fine with me. I think that everyone that has shared their thoughts and a little bit about themselves and their story here so far have done so in an effort to be honest, and maybe even a little vulnerable. I say vulnerable, because I ASSume that there’s trust that I won’t take what’s shared and go off on some wild tangent because someone is being honest while trying to be a part of the bigger picture where we help sort this shit out and try to fix some of the things that are very wrong in our country. That was a long, convoluted sentence, but I hope you know what I mean.

I do sincerely appreciate the honesty, stories and thoughts that have been shared. I think maybe we’re learning from each other? So please, don’t hesitate to share your personal anecdotes.

I also appreciate your kind words. This feels like a safe place for me to be honest and open about such things and I’m grateful for the outlet. I feel like if you all disagree with me about something I say or I disagree with someone here, we can disagree and explain why without being disrespectful or intentionally offensive to one another. And if that happens, maybe I’ll learn something or someone else will, so it’s ok. I also feel like it’s better for me to get it out and get feedback..... in a space that’s safe for me and anyone else that’s willing to participate in an honest, respectful conversation..... than for me to bottle it up. Especially, if bottling it up instead of trying to talk through it would result in me becoming someone I don’t want to be. Because I do believe that what we try to suppress tends to end up making it’s presence known anyway, in our perceptions and behavior. As corny as it sounds, I really am all about love, peace and harmony these days. At least, I try to be. I’m still a work in progress in so many ways.

[azucena]

Pink - I think it's fear and ignorance mixed together along with an upbringing that functions as an echo chamber. I mentioned some of my family's story earlier. It takes more than two hands for me to count the number of extended family members that I have who have literally never spent more than two hours with a POC. They live in rural southern IL within an hour of where they were born. They work at the same jobs forever and rarely travel.

I also mentioned how DH has mostly surpassed his upbringing. His past two teaching positions have had him co-teaching with very strong black women that have become some of his closest friends. I have witnessed him slightly slip up a couple of times and say something wrong. I sure hope these women call him on it. If it were to happen again, I'd call him on it now. Before I was too timid and worried about "making it worse."

I honestly can't remember what he said. I mostly remember thinking darn it the nasty things his parents told him for years still hasn't been entirely unlearned.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 17:32:23 GMT -5 irishpad said:

code switching.   I didn't know there was a word for it either, ya, sure, you betcha

Why do I feel like I'm watching an episode of Fargo? 

[irishpad]

Jan 11, 2021 21:56:08 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Jan 11, 2021 17:32:23 GMT -5 irishpad said:

code switching.   I didn't know there was a word for it either, ya, sure, you betcha

Why do I feel like I'm watching an episode of Fargo? 

Because Fargo is 1/2 mile from my front door.  

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2021 21:14:27 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jan 11, 2021 20:26:42 GMT -5 imawino said:

The fuck you say about my momma??  

LOL.  I kid.  I mean, unless you really say something about my momma, of course.

Anyway, I'm a day late and a dollar short.  I read your initial post, literally got choked up and had to put it aside.  Not to mention I watched too much riot/insurrection/attempted coup/general fucking insanity coverage and had to take an online break for my well-being.  In all honesty though, I didn't want to respond because I was afraid relaying some personal anecdote seems like it makes it all about me, me, me and I just don't like that and don't want that.  

Like you, I find myself in a pretty homogenous bubble lately, and that saddens me.  It's not that I don't like the people I know (at least most of them), but rather I find I don't really learn anything from them - about the world or about myself.  That's boring.  Luckily, my life has not always been like this, surrounded my (mostly lovely) whitebread people in (mostly lovely) whitebread world.  Places I've lived and worked prior to here were truly diverse and vibrant and I got to know and love people who didn't look like or sound like me.  I should make an effort to expand my circle before my viewpoints narrow.  I owe you a thank you for reminding me of that and bringing it to my attention.  

And I want to relay, again, that your posts are always so great for making me think.  You are so willing to open up about a feeling or experience and share it with us.  It's a great trait, and I think it makes all of us here a little better for reading it.

First,   

No, I only talk about people’s Momma when they’ve reeeeeally pissed me off.

Personal anecdotes are fine with me. I think that everyone that has shared their thoughts and a little bit about themselves and their story here so far have done so in an effort to be honest, and maybe even a little vulnerable. I say vulnerable, because I ASSume that there’s trust that I won’t take what’s shared and go off on some wild tangent because someone is being honest while trying to be a part of the bigger picture where we help sort this shit out and try to fix some of the things that are very wrong in our country. That was a long, convoluted sentence, but I hope you know what I mean.

I do sincerely appreciate the honesty, stories and thoughts that have been shared. I think maybe we’re learning from each other? So please, don’t hesitate to share your personal anecdotes.

I also appreciate your kind words. This feels like a safe place for me to be honest and open about such things and I’m grateful for the outlet. I feel like if you all disagree with me about something I say or I disagree with someone here, we can disagree and explain why without being disrespectful or intentionally offensive to one another. And if that happens, maybe I’ll learn something or someone else will, so it’s ok. I also feel like it’s better for me to get it out and get feedback..... in a space that’s safe for me and anyone else that’s willing to participate in an honest, respectful conversation..... than for me to bottle it up. Especially, if bottling it up instead of trying to talk through it would result in me becoming someone I don’t want to be. Because I do believe that what we try to suppress tends to end up making it’s presence known anyway, in our perceptions and behavior. As corny as it sounds, I really am all about love, peace and harmony these days. At least, I try to be. I’m still a work in progress in so many ways.

I think we are all on a journey, walking down a road with few signs to tell us where we're going.  It's so amazing to be able to reach out to others on the road, to hear their stories, maybe lean a bit on their shoulders. I don't know anywhere else to have this sort of conversation.  I do believe there is a better day ahead, but it must include everyone or it's not better for anyone.  Today I had a visit with a friend on FB about foods from our past, a past when many of us were poor, about the foods our mothers made from welfare commodity packages, what was a special store-bought food for us if that happened.  Just having one friend who knew what "welfare cheese" meant was huge.  He's 30 years younger than me and gay but we have a beautiful common experience and language.  

[gambler]

I take offense at the term redneck, I have led people of all races under fire and have NO  issue with any of their performances. Red neck is a way of life meaning support is god, country, family and a way life NOT hate against any race. Choose your words more carefully or not until you know the true meaning

[gambler]

I am back had to go out and refill the still. All of you the think all Red necks are a bunch of racist need to look really hard at yourselves before blaming every one else for your short coming and beliefs.