Moving to a plant based diet ... transition phase!

[toomuchreality]

My DSinlaw is a body builder. I've never known anyone who took what they eat so seriously!
After his last competition, he ended up in the ICU. He was fine all through the event. Immediately after, he didn't feel good and they drove to the emergency room, instead of home. He spent 4 days in intensive care, getting all his levels back to normal. He crashed hard and fast. Scary.

He does keto now. Still intense. But much more healthy. And he's still got major muscles. Working out is HUGE in his life.


Me- I can't do things slowly. Either I do it, or I don't. Weaning off things, or having a little (food/meds), is not what I do best. For me, that's a tease and is frustrating. I'd rather not have any.

That being said, I think, if you pay attention to, and listen to your body, you'll probably be okay.

I hope everything goes well for you. Do you go through major mood swings when you do this?

[Opti]

Aug 16, 2020 14:08:35 GMT -5 CCL said:

Aug 16, 2020 13:29:06 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

You can buy vegan cheese and dairy free ice cream. You don't have to give up what you like to eliminate things from your diet.

I don't think I could do "fake" dairy.

If you don't have to do dairy substitutes, I wouldn't except for swapping in plant based milks if you use milk. I think real cheese is better than the alternatives, even if they are getting better than they used to be. The key to frozen non-dairy desserts IMO is to understand they don't taste like ice cream but reflect whatever base they are made of. There are a lot that I like, but I need to avoid cow's milk protein and I like various soy, coconut, cashew, almond and oat based frozen non dairy desserts. There's an avocado based one that's pretty good in its chocolate version.  

[CCL]

I actually think cashew or almond based products might taste pretty good, but I'm allergic, so those aren't options for me.

[thyme4change]

Aug 16, 2020 19:31:26 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Aug 16, 2020 16:37:30 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Be careful with the meat substitutes if you are giving up meat for health reasons. Some of them are worse for you than meat.

I mean, you should be reading labels on things. I feel like this should be common knowledge whether you're going to be on a specific diet or not.

People say the darndest things. Like "this is natural, so it is healthy". Poison Ivy is natural, but please don't make a salad with it. Thinking there are people out there who say " this is plant based, so it is healthy" doesn't seem like a stretch. I have been blown away by the stupidity of people recently.

[countrygirl2]

We are just trying to eat less. I have removed things pretty much like bacon and bacon grease from our diet. We still have it at times, but rarely. We likely have to much meat still, but we eat less per meal.  

I went from whole milk to 2%, avocado oil for frying. We will have dessert at least once a week, we can't just drop it. All of us would feel deprived.

Hubs has lost from 240 something to 226. DD from 195 to 167, but she is not losing more. 

I gained but in the last few days down 1.5 pounds, I know that's nothing but for my feet every little bit helps.

For me I am going to try to get back to exercising and see if that will also help. I need to do it anyway.

At least my total cholesterol is down from 255 time before to 223 this time. So I'm doing something right.  I have been eating a lot of vegetables this summer and fruits, I always do in summer.

I wish you well Haitian, getting healthy is always a good thing. Being vegetarian would likely be good, I just know I'm not disciplined enough to do it.

[weltschmerz]

Aug 16, 2020 7:24:52 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Ok I figure if I am going to do this, might as well go all in. Already spent a small fortune setting up my own gym now in the basement; time to take care of the most important part : the diet.

After debating (because I love meat) and doing some research, I decided to give plant based diet a go for the health benefits. I sadly inherited by sucky biological father genes and trying to avoid a few things: my paternal grandmother had a stroke in her 70’s and was in bed paralyzed for a decade before she passed. My biological father had his own stroke last year at 65 going on 66, he has made somewhat of a full recovery. But still have high blood pressure, cannot get his diabetes under control, having eyesight issues and may need surgery, takes more pills a day than I care to remember.

So there is some motivation behind it and at 35 I figure I still have some time on my side to help change the course. I am Haitian so we already have a lot of meals that are plant based that I plan to re-introduce into my diet more consistently, but figure I could get some ideas from the folks here about what they have tried or like, thing so can give a shot too.

Also I just spent over $150 on meat at Costco 3 days ago!

Going from a regular diet to full-on vegan is incredibly difficult. You sure you don't want to go vegetarian, first? You chances of sticking to it will be a lot higher.
In any case, fish is very good for you.

www.healthline.com/nutrition/japanese-diet#1

I eat a lot of vegetarian...pulled pork made from jackfruit, falafel, great Indian food......but I couldn't go vegan.

[justme]

Aug 16, 2020 19:31:26 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Aug 16, 2020 16:37:30 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Be careful with the meat substitutes if you are giving up meat for health reasons. Some of them are worse for you than meat.

I mean, you should be reading labels on things. I feel like this should be common knowledge whether you're going to be on a specific diet or not.

I've definitely seen some people be all I'm vegetarian/vegan so I'm healthy while chowing down on chips, oreos, and other crap food that's technically vegetarian or vegan.

Granted I haven't tried meat substitutes for years cuz they were so awful, but even recently the last I looked had a lot of chemicals in it which to me is worse than organic grass fed beef with no antibiotics.

Personally looking at nutritional facts of a real burger vs impossible burger I'm not sure I'd pick the impossible burger and that's before you get to ingredients.

Though from what I've heard Carl at least has a lot better tasting options than what I tried 15 years ago. A plant based hot dog I had back then was one of the grossest things I've tried.

[weltschmerz]

Aug 16, 2020 22:52:16 GMT -5 justme said:

Aug 16, 2020 19:31:26 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I mean, you should be reading labels on things. I feel like this should be common knowledge whether you're going to be on a specific diet or not.

I've definitely seen some people be all I'm vegetarian/vegan so I'm healthy while chowing down on chips, oreos, and other crap food that's technically vegetarian or vegan.

Granted I haven't tried meat substitutes for years cuz they were so awful, but even recently the last I looked had a lot of chemicals in it which to me is worse than organic grass fed beef with no antibiotics.

Personally looking at nutritional facts of a real burger vs impossible burger I'm not sure I'd pick the impossible burger and that's before you get to ingredients.

Though from what I've heard Carl at least has a lot better tasting options than what I tried 15 years ago. A plant based hot dog I had back then was one of the grossest things I've tried.

I like the Impossible Burgers and Beyond Meat. Even Sushi the Destroyer loves them. They either fooled the cat, or maybe he's just weird.
I don't eat them for my health. The very idea of factory farms and  industrial feedlots turns my stomach.

[justme]

Aug 16, 2020 22:57:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Aug 16, 2020 22:52:16 GMT -5 justme said:

I've definitely seen some people be all I'm vegetarian/vegan so I'm healthy while chowing down on chips, oreos, and other crap food that's technically vegetarian or vegan.

Granted I haven't tried meat substitutes for years cuz they were so awful, but even recently the last I looked had a lot of chemicals in it which to me is worse than organic grass fed beef with no antibiotics.

Personally looking at nutritional facts of a real burger vs impossible burger I'm not sure I'd pick the impossible burger and that's before you get to ingredients.

Though from what I've heard Carl at least has a lot better tasting options than what I tried 15 years ago. A plant based hot dog I had back then was one of the grossest things I've tried.

I like the Impossible Burgers and Beyond Meat. Even Sushi the Destroyer loves them. They either fooled the cat, or maybe he's just weird.
I don't eat them for my health. The very idea of factory farms and  industrial feedlots turns my stomach.

I've never had one, but chemicals to make it taste good plus sodium plus higher fat isn't making me want to based solely on health.

I'll admit there's some just not thinking about it on my side, but I also try to buy meat that doesn't come from that when I can. The majority of my meat (produce too) usually comes from a local place that buys like 80% of their stuff from small farmers within 400 miles. Their beef that's not grass fed comes from Iowa farmers, their lamb from New Zealand, and I'm sure their seafood is also farther but I'm not a big seafood person.

With the pandemic ground beef and chicken has mostly come from Costco organic stuff, not sure on the supply chain there though.

But conversely today was a vegetarian day cuz that's how I ate. 🤷🏻‍♀️Can say I won't be vegan though so more power to Carl and others!

[TheHaitian]

Thank you everyone ...

Like I said this week will be transition week, at least till mid of the week or end of the week on some things and end of the month on others. I had some meal prepped already and I am too Haitian to be throwing out food.
-> have some pasta with organic ground beef (about 2 meals/servings) that I will finish this week.
-> have some salmon with asparagus, fried plaintain and akra.
-> have like 2/3 of gallon of milk (will transition to almond milk or soy, depends which one I like best
-> have like 1/3 Of bag of whey protein left , going to use it till it is done than transfer to plant based protein.

I would give my brother my food but he is at my mom’s for 2 weeks; so food would probably go bad waiting for him otherwise I would have let him eat it; he has the appetite.

My wife support my choice but she will remain vegetarian having salmon twice a week which I respect. This is my journey, not going out to convert anyone. Will not be easy I know and the reason I am using transition if I am not going to kill myself if one day I have m cheese or use my daughter milk to make a shake or find myself in a situation where I have to eat meat...

I figure give myself till end of September to fully transition where I am fully adjusted to the new diet and maybe end of the year where I can be 100% plant based.

One thing I have noticed I am hungry faster and need to eat more / and more often to contain the same energy level. I am not a small man (~380 lbs) so a small salad is not going to cut it.

[TheHaitian]

So today I had:

Meal 1
- lime juice (no sugar)
- blueberries, grapes, mandarin, banana
- belvita cookie

Snack 1
- 2 coconut kind bar
- 2 bananas

Meal 2
- pasta
- organic ground beef

Snack 2
- whey protein + milk
- carrots
- hummus

Meal 3
- salmon
- asparagus
- fried plaintain
- akra (http://haitiancooking.com/recipe/haitian-accra-malanga-fritters/)
—> brownie for dessert

Snack 3 (post workout)
- carrots
- hummus
- whey protein + milk

And that is all for today... not yet 100% plan based like I said earlier post, need to finish eating my meals that have been prepped for me already and on whey protein.

[toomuchreality]

Aug 17, 2020 1:55:36 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

So today I had:

Meal 1
- lime juice (no sugar)
- blueberries, grapes, mandarin, banana
- belvita cookie

Snack 1
- 2 coconut kind bar
- 2 bananas

Meal 2
- pasta
- organic ground beef

Snack 2
- whey protein + milk
- carrots
- hummus

Meal 3
- salmon
- asparagus
- fried plaintain
- akra (http://haitiancooking.com/recipe/haitian-accra-malanga-fritters/)
—> brownie for dessert

Snack 3 (post workout)
- carrots
- hummus
- whey protein + milk

And that is all for today... not yet 100% plan based like I said earlier post, need to finish eating my meals that have been prepped for me already and on whey protein.

Good for you! I'm impressed.
Your plan sounds totally reasonable to me.

You got this!

[Happy prose]

TheHaitian Are you eventually going to go full vegan, like no more leather shoes, belts, etc., check ingredients in your soaps, shampoos? 

[TheHaitian]

Aug 17, 2020 4:30:50 GMT -5 Happy prose said:

TheHaitian Are you eventually going to go full vegan, like no more leather shoes, belts, etc., check ingredients in your soaps, shampoos? 

I don’t see that happening but who knows what the future holds.

But as of today: that is not the plan.

[stillmovingforward]

I love plantains. We can't get them here 🤔

[countrygirl2]

Looks like what you ate today is good. Honestly I would keep some meat in your diet, its more complete protein that way.

We have changed to help DD, need to change more but I could never go 100% vegetarian. Good luck with your choice.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 16, 2020 14:22:31 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Aug 16, 2020 14:08:35 GMT -5 CCL said:

I don't think I could do "fake" dairy.

There are some that are pretty good. We got a long time customers who brings in her own vegan cheese for her pizza. Dad said it melted beautifully and you wouldn't be able to tell.

I think it was Daiya brand.

We've done that too, for DH as he's dairy free.  Some places will use the daiya if we bring it in, some won't, we've found.  Apparently Wisconsin isn't happy to have customers bring in stuff like that to restaurants.  Having an unopened bag has helped a couple of times.  Otherwise for takeout we order his pizza parbaked and he'll add the cheese at home and finish it in the toaster oven.  He's avoiding soy and a lot of the places around here use a soy based cheese topping. 

I like the Daiya cheesecake myself. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

We use a lot of quinoa, a grain that naturally contains protein.  It cooks similar to rice on the stovetop.  A crockpot takes about 4.0 hrs on high to cook completely, in my experience.  Just make sure you rinse it until it stops bubbling before cooking.  Otherwise it's going to tasty soapy. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 17, 2020 9:56:11 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Aug 16, 2020 14:22:31 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

There are some that are pretty good. We got a long time customers who brings in her own vegan cheese for her pizza. Dad said it melted beautifully and you wouldn't be able to tell.

I think it was Daiya brand.

We've done that too, for DH as he's dairy free.  Some places will use the daiya if we bring it in, some won't, we've found.  Apparently Wisconsin isn't happy to have customers bring in stuff like that to restaurants.  Having an unopened bag has helped a couple of times.  Otherwise for takeout we order his pizza parbaked and he'll add the cheese at home and finish it in the toaster oven.  He's avoiding soy and a lot of the places around here use a soy based cheese topping. 

I like the Daiya cheesecake myself. 

We only do it for that particular customer.   The reason isn't we don't want to fake cheese it is that if customers have allergies we assume liability if we give them this option.  We aren't built to be allergen free.  While most people do ask questions a lot of people don't and we don't want the liability.

We are  case by case on gluten for the same reason.  We have a cauliflower crust but we are not a gluten free establishment so we have refused service to a few customers because we cannot ensure no cross contamination.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 17, 2020 10:42:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Aug 17, 2020 9:56:11 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

We've done that too, for DH as he's dairy free.  Some places will use the daiya if we bring it in, some won't, we've found.  Apparently Wisconsin isn't happy to have customers bring in stuff like that to restaurants.  Having an unopened bag has helped a couple of times.  Otherwise for takeout we order his pizza parbaked and he'll add the cheese at home and finish it in the toaster oven.  He's avoiding soy and a lot of the places around here use a soy based cheese topping. 

I like the Daiya cheesecake myself. 

We only do it for that particular customer.   The reason isn't we don't want to fake cheese it is that if customers have allergies we assume liability if we give them this option and end up contaminating it.  We are  case by case on gluten for the same reason.  We have a cauliflower crust but we are not a gluten free establishment so we have refused service to a few customers because we cannot ensure no cross contamination.

yeah, DH can handle a bit of cross contamination but our favorite restaurant (which closed a few years ago) had a customer who was so intolerant/allergic that if she kissed her sweetie on the closed lips and he'd had gluten, she'd have a major reaction.  That's got to be really, really, REALLY hard to manage. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Yeah we had someone call who has severe Celiac's disease.  We weren't going to be able to safely serve her.  Dad took the time to talk to her on the phone and explain it all to her.

Meanwhile I have a coworker who has it and can handle some cross contamination.  She knows where she can eat that cross contamination is either non-existent or minimal enough to not bother her but she is wary of new places.

That's why we don't offer any of those options because you never know.   While people should manage their own allergies it only takes one person being sick to end up in a boat load of trouble.

[Cookies Galore]

Carl, since you are getting back into a lifting routine and undertaking a major diet overhaul, this site might be helpful: www.meatfreeathlete.com/. Vegan athletes exist and they thrive (I know plenty). Good on you for making healthy changes!

I've been pescetarian for 24(?) years and counting. I probably eat fish/seafood once a week, if that, and all other meals are vegetarian or vegan. There will be a lot of trial and error, but you will do fine. You can do it!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 17, 2020 10:51:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Yeah we had someone call who has severe Celiac's disease.  We weren't going to be able to safely serve her.  Dad took the time to talk to her on the phone and explain it all to her.

Meanwhile I have a coworker who has it and can handle some cross contamination.  She knows where she can eat that cross contamination is either non-existent or minimal enough to not bother her but she is wary of new places.

That's why we don't offer any of those options because you never know.   While people should manage their own allergies it only takes one person being sick to end up in a boat load of trouble.

I have a friend who is so sensitive to gluten that she can tell if her french fries were fried in the same oil that the chicken strips were fried in.   

[Tiny]

I applaud your going with more plant based meals.

Instead of going full on "vegetarian" why not go with a "Flexitarian" approach? Work with replacing a set number of meals per week with something plant based while also adjusting your "meat" meals to be a bit better for you (adding a healthier grain (whole grain) or switching up the veggies (trying something you haven't had before).

going a little slower means you can try a wider variety of "meatless" options over time while still having meals you like are familiar with.   It helps you build a repertoire of recipes (or meal plans) that you DO like without the "hopeless" feeling if you do have to suffer thru a meal you don't like (you won't have to eat that again in the future) as you are trying to find things you do like.  It's not a one and done.   

I've witnessed many people make changes only to find they didn't like any of the handful of "meal options" they thought they were suppose to eat and instead of trying something else they went full on back to the familiar/comfort of their old "meal options".

Doing something new while also doing something old means you just have to suffer thru a "i don't really like this meal " while having a "well, the next meal IS something I like!" thought. You just scratch the "i didn't really like that - and I can't think of a way to make it better" thing off your list. You then look for something else to try in it's place. And there's always the promise of something you do like - up next on the daily "ooo I'm eating again" schedule.  j

As your "collection" of "I like this meatless recipe/meal!" grows - it gets easier and easier to have more of those kinds of meals each week - and the amount of meat you are eating will decrease.   

I'm a Flexitarian - in a typical month I might have 4 to 6 meals with meat in them.  Some months I have fewer.  Some months I have more (eating out or at friends houses).  

[chiver78]

Aug 17, 2020 12:17:42 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Aug 17, 2020 10:51:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Yeah we had someone call who has severe Celiac's disease.  We weren't going to be able to safely serve her.  Dad took the time to talk to her on the phone and explain it all to her.

Meanwhile I have a coworker who has it and can handle some cross contamination.  She knows where she can eat that cross contamination is either non-existent or minimal enough to not bother her but she is wary of new places.

That's why we don't offer any of those options because you never know.   While people should manage their own allergies it only takes one person being sick to end up in a boat load of trouble.

I have a friend who is so sensitive to gluten that she can tell if her french fries were fried in the same oil that the chicken strips were fried in.   

allergies are an evil thing. I'm the same way with shellfish. it doesn't even have to tasty fishy. 

[stillmovingforward]

Me too. And I live by the ocean 😥 with a bunch of fishing people.
But I can eat trout!

[chiver78]

Aug 17, 2020 15:46:35 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

Me too. And I live by the ocean 😥 with a bunch of fishing people.
But I can eat trout!

I just spent 5y living on Cape Cod. I'm moving back that direction next week, but not over the bridges. there were a lot of places I just didn't bother trying to eat. 

[TheHaitian]

Thanks everyone.

My MIL said today “so do I really have to cook meat for just your brother only?”...

Guess she is back to if she is not cooking meat for my wife and I, there is no use for her to cook it for herself and my daughter (my daughter loves salmon and chicken nuggets). That only leaves my brother.

I told her once she is done cooking everything in the freezer right now, I will probably just buy a rotisserie chicken for him from Costco every 2-3 days. He loves them, this way he can eat the same thing we are eating and add his meat to it afterwards; and this way she does not have to cook.

Her , my daughter and my wife (and off course my brother) will continue having salmon or seafood 2-3 times a week. My wife also tried to convince me to at least keep seafood in my diet also and while I reserve the right to change my mind later and add it on if I decide... I want to keep the plant based lifestyle a good try.

Today was a good day, have a very small portion of meat that was in my evening meal but the rest of the day was meatless. Ordered a meatless sub for lunch and they thought I was crazy : basically half wheat sub and all the veggies they had, no mayo, no meat, I did add some vinegar. Was pretty good.

Talking to my friend since I am overhauling both my workout regiment (my gym is now in my basement), trying to get cardio in at least 3 times a week and now overhauling my diet: how will I be able to tell in a month or 3 or 6 what exactly is the major contributor to any change I have: diet or workout?

I really don’t care as long as my health overhaul improve, I am not out to write a research paper or publish a novel. I am 35, pre-diabetic, if my blood pressure remains high I will be put on medication next doctor visit in November, carrying to much weight and sick and tired of the sleep apnea BS. I just want to :
A) get off the medications
B) add possibly a few years to my life
C) be actually healthy, not just look good. BUT be healthy
——> there is a difference between the 2 because I know a lot people that look good but internally are destroying their bodies with what they do to look good.
D) I want to maintain strength/muscle (at least not lose too much) but increase cardiovascular capabilities.
——> at my core I will always be attracted to powerlifting (I love lifting heavy shit) but I also want to be able to go on a 5-6 miles run if I want to or a hike. Deadlifting 450-500 lbs mean shit if I cannot run a mile without feeling like my heart is about to explode.

Balance I guess...most importantly I don’t want to miss out on my daughters life over something I had complete control over. And both my wife and I won the lottery when it comes to sucky gene pool, she lost her dad to a heart condition when she was 2... she inherited that heart condition (another reason we are both highly unsure about trying for #2). And she is getting closer to the age her dad was when he passed away ; she is already worried about leaving my daughter without a mother possibly (knock on wood that will not happen for several long decades, like 5-6 decades) ; leaving her an orphan should not be added to the list.

The only Good thing is we are both in the USA with access to medical intervention vs Haiti where her dad passed away and my grandmother / dad suffered their stroke and what not... but I want to try prevention / fixing the problem vs taking a pill to “live” with the problem which is what I think modern medicine is all about.

[TheHaitian]

And yes I know you can be skinny or healthy and have sleep apnea (I know 2 people that are including a bodybuilder) and also have diabetes (my wife little cousin is 5 and parents just found out he had type 1 diabetes last year)....

But in my case these are things that came later in live as I ignored my diet / health and put it on the back burner; so I conclude that once I get those back in check they will be things I will no longer have to concern myself with in the daily; same for the blood pressure but that I blame on my sucky job.

In conclusion I am 35... I feel if I don’t fix those things now and make sure to stay on top on them moving forward I will reach a point of no return where the damage has been done and I have no other choice but to live with the consequences. I don’t want a wake up call about my diabetes when they are amputating a leg or I have a stroke like my grandmother and father before me, I rather have it now while taking a 1,000 mg of metformin twice a day with A1C of 6.8 and my doctor saying it is good because it means we are managing it (been same level 6.7/6.8 for the past year or so). I don’t want to manage it, I want it gone.

[Deleted]

I am going to address the elephant in the room, TheHaitian.  No one else is saying it, but if you weigh around 380 pounds (Was that a typo?  Easy to do on a phone), you need to be working with a doctor dealing with extreme obesity.  A "diet" change won't do it.

If you meant 280 pounds, the same advice still holds.  My SIL was a naturally large man who let it go too far.  Gastric bypass and THEN healthy eating changed his life.  It cost about 10k, though.