Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 31, 2020 14:53:38 GMT -5
Quote; If we want to understand why standard schools are what they are, we have to abandon the idea that they are products of logical necessity or scientific insight. They are, instead, products of history. Schooling, as it exists today, only makes sense if we view it from a historical perspective. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/200808/brief-history-education And the resistance to change comes from the fact that most of those involved with education were successful in the system as it exists. Calling it into question calls into question their success. I remember sitting outside Miller Hall on the Udub campus waiting for a class to start. I was talking about problems I had with schools and being asked why I was doing Grad work in Education if I didn't like schools. This article is from 2008.... I have no idea how this article OR jma23's post about this article is relevant to the current situation of the health risks involved with Covid19 and kids returning to schools. I get that how we approach and execute teaching children needs to change BECAUSE of Covid19. Business nor our education system can turn on a dime (or 6 months of time).
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 31, 2020 15:09:21 GMT -5
Quote; If we want to understand why standard schools are what they are, we have to abandon the idea that they are products of logical necessity or scientific insight. They are, instead, products of history. Schooling, as it exists today, only makes sense if we view it from a historical perspective. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/200808/brief-history-education And the resistance to change comes from the fact that most of those involved with education were successful in the system as it exists. Calling it into question calls into question their success. I remember sitting outside Miller Hall on the Udub campus waiting for a class to start. I was talking about problems I had with schools and being asked why I was doing Grad work in Education if I didn't like schools. This article is from 2008.... I have no idea how this article OR jma23's post about this article is relevant to the current situation of the health risks involved with Covid19 and kids returning to schools. I get that how we approach and execute teaching children needs to change BECAUSE of Covid19. Business nor our education system can turn on a dime (or 6 months of time). How we approach and execute educating children needs to change and the current situation gives us an opportunity to make changes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 15:24:38 GMT -5
I still don't understand why people have any "wonder". (Not you, I mean in general.) Kids and teachers will get sick and some will die. That's a known fact. What I don't understand is why people think that won't happen. It's been proven over and over and over again.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 31, 2020 15:36:09 GMT -5
I don't know if this is off-topic or just way too tardy, but I also had a hell of a time finding relevant and useful CV-19 news back in March and April. I was mostly reading stuff on the free, unpaywalled, unmetered web pages of broadcast news organizations and using Google News to find them.
My grasp of what was going on was very spotty. A lot of it was clickbait. There was a dearth of substance and analysis but endless instructionals on how to quarantine or wash your groceries. The ratio of garbage to stuff worth reading was way too high.
Things got much better in mid-April, when I bit the bullet and started paying for journalism. Yes, I chose to subscribe to services that reflected my own ideological slant, but I started feeling much more abreast of events almost immediately. There was much more to read and it wasn't ground up into pablum or embedded in endless videos that took forever to load and were 95% filler.
Can you find a similar journalism source that is ideologically non-threatening but also several times more detailed? Can anyone here recommend something other than the NYT, the WP, and the LAT? I honestly have no idea how good the WSJ's coverage is and I can't read the print in The Economist without a magnifying glass these days, so I really have no idea what to recommend to someone who leans a bit more to the right than myself but still wishes to be informed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 15:48:26 GMT -5
The PBS Newshour? Streamed free nightly on YouTube.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 31, 2020 15:52:02 GMT -5
I'd guess there are a lot of kids that had the virus. By me, most doctors will not test kids unless they have symptoms and they send them downtown to a hospital for testing, not to one of the local testing sites. I do know one family where the mom was covid positive and the entire family ended up getting tested. The mom had a head cold, loss of smell, and fatigue but no shortness of breath, no coughing, no sore throat, and no fever. She told me she was 90% after about a week. One of her kids also ended up testing positive, but had no symptoms at all.
On the other hand, another local guy got COVID and was in the hospital for 2 weeks.
Maybe you'll be fine, but I wouldn't want to roll the dice.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 31, 2020 16:15:52 GMT -5
I don't know if this is off-topic or just way too tardy, but I also had a hell of a time finding relevant and useful CV-19 news back in March and April. I was mostly reading stuff on the free, unpaywalled, unmetered web pages of broadcast news organizations and using Google News to find them.
My grasp of what was going on was very spotty. A lot of it was clickbait. There was a dearth of substance and analysis but endless instructionals on how to quarantine or wash your groceries. The ratio of garbage to stuff worth reading was way too high.
Things got much better in mid-April, when I bit the bullet and started paying for journalism. Yes, I chose to subscribe to services that reflected my own ideological slant, but I started feeling much more abreast of events almost immediately. There was much more to read and it wasn't ground up into pablum or embedded in endless videos that took forever to load and were 95% filler.
Can you find a similar journalism source that is ideologically non-threatening but also several times more detailed? Can anyone here recommend something other than the NYT, the WP, and the LAT? I honestly have no idea how good the WSJ's coverage is and I can't read the print in The Economist without a magnifying glass these days, so I really have no idea what to recommend to someone who leans a bit more to the right than myself but still wishes to be informed.
Much of the information early on was a mess. Just the way it goes with a new disease in a medical crisis. The information age has made it worse, in that information is widely shared now, and in a rapid fashion. For medicine, that is a double edged sword, because having time to digest information, and see how true it really is allows for better conclusions. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Everyone wants to be first, and the public wants answers NOW. Just not how medicine works. Early on there was too much speculation and extrapolation. Much of it was wrong. So, I think what you experienced was due to chaos. Longer articles, written by respected journalists, such as the NYT, Washington Post, LA Times, WSJ, were the best in my opinion
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 31, 2020 16:25:48 GMT -5
I think that the less wordy version of this is "digital versions of dead-tree journalism". Kinda matches what someone told me back in 1982, "Read. Read anything and you'll learn more than what you'll hear on the radio or see on TV." That assertion was backed up by some stats on article length and information density.
I'm somewhat surprised that this advice seems to still be relevant. But it sure does appear that digital versions of newspapers inform the crap out of folks compared to the online versions of any form or flavor of broadcast news.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 31, 2020 16:38:28 GMT -5
I think that the less wordy version of this is "digital versions of dead-tree journalism". Kinda matches what someone told me back in 1982, "Read. Read anything and you'll learn more than what you'll hear on the radio or see on TV." That assertion was backed up by some stats on article length and information density.
I'm somewhat surprised that this advice seems to still be relevant. But it sure does appear that digital versions of newspapers inform the crap out of folks compared to the online versions of any form or flavor of broadcast news.
Longer discussions/articles allow for the nuance of subjects to be covered, as well as the ability to explain how certain findings are. Quick notes/reads/blurbs/and the like go for the "splash", and do not allow for in depth understanding. In the early phase of a crisis like this, understanding what are facts, and what are conjectures is important. One of the reasons you saw far fewer members of the medical community backing hydroxychloroquine. We understood, how meager the evidence that the treatment recommendations were based on
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 31, 2020 16:51:01 GMT -5
NYT and WP are behind a paywall..(At least they are here) If I want a general US story It'll be on CNN BBC is impartial but often not in detail, they sometimes have interviews with interesting people. I'll just find out about something then google it and read several features.. from different reputable sources. We have suffered from armchair know-it-alls.... who can't stop politicking and will criticise everything. Tiresome, pollution of the airwaves that you have to wade through.
The MedCram videos are quite interesting and explained in a way that lay people, like me... can understand
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 31, 2020 17:07:00 GMT -5
The MedCram videos are quite interesting and explained in a way that lay people, like me... can understand
Give the guy a break. Don't make him google "MedCram", link it! (My excuse for not doing so myself is that I wouldn't know it if google found it for me. I've already misspelled it once so g-- only knows what would show up with that search.)
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Jul 31, 2020 17:08:13 GMT -5
Although Wa Po is generally behind a paywall, their COVID information is not. I think this may be true for other sites also.
"Note to readers The Washington Post is providing our daily live updates, comprehensive guide to the pandemic and our Coronavirus Updates newsletter for free, so that all readers have access to this important information about the coronavirus pandemic."
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 31, 2020 17:31:55 GMT -5
NYT and WP are behind a paywall..(At least they are here) If I want a general US story It'll be on CNN BBC is impartial but often not in detail, they sometimes have interviews with interesting people. I'll just find out about something then google it and read several features.. from different reputable sources. We have suffered from armchair know-it-alls.... who can't stop politicking and will criticise everything. Tiresome, pollution of the airwaves that you have to wade through.
The MedCram videos are quite interesting and explained in a way that lay people, like me... can understand
With all due respect, the BBC News website and CNN were where I went when the stories that interested me were first published by the NYT or the WP. The versions that the BBC and CNN published online were heavily abridged. I worked this free angle for weeks and finally concluded that I needed more. I'm not sure what I needed more of. It might have been more words. It might have been more context. It might have been a need to examine (i.e. bullshit-scan) the sources more thoroughly. All that I can tell you is that I felt better informed the second that I started subscribing.
Truth be told, I have no idea what the scope or limitations of the free/non-paywalled coronavirus coverage that NYT or WP provide. I was very frustrated when I signed on for dirt-cheap unlimited access for a year and I still don't regret pulling that lever without thoroughly examining what extra information subscribing would make available to me.
I am imperfect, definitely not an optimizer, but willing to learn from folks who have experimented with or stuck with the free coronavirus coverage that the NYT and WP provide.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jul 31, 2020 20:55:19 GMT -5
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apple 2
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Post by apple 2 on Jul 31, 2020 22:40:29 GMT -5
It is not looking good. I certainly would not send my child to school at this point you have a long way to go.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 1, 2020 3:23:00 GMT -5
NYT and WP are behind a paywall..(At least they are here) If I want a general US story It'll be on CNN BBC is impartial but often not in detail, they sometimes have interviews with interesting people. I'll just find out about something then google it and read several features.. from different reputable sources. We have suffered from armchair know-it-alls.... who can't stop politicking and will criticise everything. Tiresome, pollution of the airwaves that you have to wade through.
The MedCram videos are quite interesting and explained in a way that lay people, like me... can understand
With all due respect, the BBC News website and CNN were where I went when the stories that interested me were first published by the NYT or the WP. The versions that the BBC and CNN published online were heavily abridged. I worked this free angle for weeks and finally concluded that I needed more. I'm not sure what I needed more of. It might have been more words. It might have been more context. It might have been a need to examine (i.e. bullshit-scan) the sources more thoroughly. All that I can tell you is that I felt better informed the second that I started subscribing.
Truth be told, I have no idea what the scope or limitations of the free/non-paywalled coronavirus coverage that NYT or WP provide. I was very frustrated when I signed on for dirt-cheap unlimited access for a year and I still don't regret pulling that lever without thoroughly examining what extra information subscribing would make available to me.
I am imperfect, definitely not an optimizer, but willing to learn from folks who have experimented with or stuck with the free coronavirus coverage that the NYT and WP provide.
I need things like CNN and BBC, which are straight, fact checked and non-partisan to set my bullshitometer......then I can take it from there. (You know what the net is like, you can easily disappear down a rabbit hole) Like you, I have a thirst to know what is going on....... and I do look at trusted features from WP and NYT, (which I'm sure you'll be fine with)....but then again I'm in Europe and get info in from this part of the World. Yes, I'm due back in School in September....and have been shielding because of asthma. I know kids get the virus the same as anyone and whilst they don't get sick they can carry it. They won't have distanced because they are teenagers...... and they will have been out and about with their mates. I have resolved that if I don't feel safe in the classroom, I'm coming home.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 1, 2020 9:37:52 GMT -5
Whenever I see these positive clusters, I wonder how many of them have symptoms. I would love to know if of those 300, 2 ended up in the hospital, 14 had minor symptoms and the rest showed no symptoms. Or, 30 ended up in the hospital, 200 had symptoms that were manageable at home and 70 had zero symptoms. I am anticipating a lot more coverage of kids getting sick when schools open. Up until then, so many kids are staying home. It isn't like a bunch of 9 year olds are essential workers, and although there are some families that haven't found alternatives- most kids aren't running errands or even getting their nails done. Even if the parents think it is hooey, they are probably going to the park, as a lot of high risk places are closed. A coworker told me her 17 YO grandson was in the hospital for weeks, and has permanent heart damage. I hope his life isn't severely impacted - but he probably doesn't need to make plans to be a centenarian.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 1, 2020 13:56:38 GMT -5
Whenever I see these positive clusters, I wonder how many of them have symptoms. I would love to know if of those 300, 2 ended up in the hospital, 14 had minor symptoms and the rest showed no symptoms. Or, 30 ended up in the hospital, 200 had symptoms that were manageable at home and 70 had zero symptoms. I am anticipating a lot more coverage of kids getting sick when schools open. Up until then, so many kids are staying home. It isn't like a bunch of 9 year olds are essential workers, and although there are some families that haven't found alternatives- most kids aren't running errands or even getting their nails done. Even if the parents think it is hooey, they are probably going to the park, as a lot of high risk places are closed. A coworker told me her 17 YO grandson was in the hospital for weeks, and has permanent heart damage. I hope his life isn't severely impacted - but he probably doesn't need to make plans to be a centenarian. Here is the CDC link I posted above, with more information. www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6931e1-H.pdf
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 10:39:22 GMT -5
Quote; If we want to understand why standard schools are what they are, we have to abandon the idea that they are products of logical necessity or scientific insight. They are, instead, products of history. Schooling, as it exists today, only makes sense if we view it from a historical perspective. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/200808/brief-history-education And the resistance to change comes from the fact that most of those involved with education were successful in the system as it exists. Calling it into question calls into question their success. I remember sitting outside Miller Hall on the Udub campus waiting for a class to start. I was talking about problems I had with schools and being asked why I was doing Grad work in Education if I didn't like schools. One can successfully travel long distance with a horse and carriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 10:44:58 GMT -5
I haven't heard anything about less transmission among children, just that the overall symptoms in general are less severe.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 3, 2020 10:49:58 GMT -5
Quote; If we want to understand why standard schools are what they are, we have to abandon the idea that they are products of logical necessity or scientific insight. They are, instead, products of history. Schooling, as it exists today, only makes sense if we view it from a historical perspective. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/200808/brief-history-education And the resistance to change comes from the fact that most of those involved with education were successful in the system as it exists. Calling it into question calls into question their success. I remember sitting outside Miller Hall on the Udub campus waiting for a class to start. I was talking about problems I had with schools and being asked why I was doing Grad work in Education if I didn't like schools. One can successfully travel long distance with a horse and carriage. True, but only if one has the skills and aptitudes to do so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 11:25:12 GMT -5
Quote; If we want to understand why standard schools are what they are, we have to abandon the idea that they are products of logical necessity or scientific insight. They are, instead, products of history. Schooling, as it exists today, only makes sense if we view it from a historical perspective. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/200808/brief-history-education And the resistance to change comes from the fact that most of those involved with education were successful in the system as it exists. Calling it into question calls into question their success. I remember sitting outside Miller Hall on the Udub campus waiting for a class to start. I was talking about problems I had with schools and being asked why I was doing Grad work in Education if I didn't like schools. Wars were successfully won with swords.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 4, 2020 11:37:27 GMT -5
Quote; If we want to understand why standard schools are what they are, we have to abandon the idea that they are products of logical necessity or scientific insight. They are, instead, products of history. Schooling, as it exists today, only makes sense if we view it from a historical perspective. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/200808/brief-history-education And the resistance to change comes from the fact that most of those involved with education were successful in the system as it exists. Calling it into question calls into question their success. I remember sitting outside Miller Hall on the Udub campus waiting for a class to start. I was talking about problems I had with schools and being asked why I was doing Grad work in Education if I didn't like schools. Wars were successfully won with swords. Wars were lost with swords.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 11:45:14 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 4, 2020 11:56:39 GMT -5
You talk about schools being what they are because of the history of schooling. Looking at the aspect of the historical goals of the schooling system gives a different picture of successes and failures.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 12:12:34 GMT -5
You talk about schools being what they are because of the history of schooling. Looking at the aspect of the historical goals of the schooling system gives a different picture of successes and failures. You're sounding very conservative here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 12:12:56 GMT -5
As we are on the cusp of of an information age, the old brick and mortar schools, a staple of years ago, will they soon be laid to rest ?
Will this virus of Covid-19 be the trigger to a new way ?
Will the plethora of teachers and support staff, plus buildings and transportation, endlessly putting a financial strain on the worlds populace, be replaced by a few top educators working in tandem with code writers?
Will parents once again be responsible for ensuring their children's education, by making sure they use that computer ?
Time will tell.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 12:18:29 GMT -5
In the interest of safety for our children, in regards to covid-19 and other upcoming contagions, we need to start a national conversation about this.
The schools as they are today, never need to re-open.
Why take the chance of the after effects of this disease
It isn't 1950 anymore, the world has moved forward.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 4, 2020 12:19:54 GMT -5
As we are on the cusp of of an information age, the old brick and mortar schools, a staple of years ago, will they soon be laid to rest ? Will this virus of Covid-19 be the trigger to a new way ? Will the plethora of teachers and support staff, plus buildings and transportation, endlessly putting a financial strain on the worlds populace, be replaced by a few top educators working in tandem with code writers? Will parents once again be responsible for ensuring their children's education, by making sure they use that computer ? Time will tell. My son did virtual learning for much of his spring semester. I do not think it was nearly as valuable as in person on his university campus was. Neither did he. I think there will be changes, but I think the jury is still out as to where virtual instruction will fit into the overall educational experience
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 4, 2020 12:22:38 GMT -5
You talk about schools being what they are because of the history of schooling. Looking at the aspect of the historical goals of the schooling system gives a different picture of successes and failures. You're sounding very conservative here. In a previous life, I was a student of the history and sociology of education. The why of schooling existing in its present form based on the early goals of those who pushed to create it is historical fact. Accepting it as such does not give one an ideological identity.
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