pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 6, 2020 12:26:52 GMT -5
It would be surprising if it isn't related to it. Kids have all kinds of interesting and terrifying responses to infection. Another one acute flaccid myelitis is related to enterovirus. Downplaying the risks to children, even if 0ver 98% do well, when there are such horrible possible reactions, is just criminal. Careful risk/benefit calculations, with considerations on how to minimize the risk is required. Consider me in the group that does not want traditional k-12 schools to open until there is a viable treatment or vaccine. See, I think that is a bit extreme. I think that a place such as VT, where they have done a really good job at containing this (with some luck added in), could try a number of different strategies to see what could possibly work. Another semester like this may be OK, but we will have increasing issues if we stay locked down like this too long. Although I am optimistic about us finding treatment or a vaccine, science works on its one time frame. If we do not find a truly effective vaccine or treatment for 2 years, do we want to be like this that long? In addition, what if the best vaccine we can make is only 50-60% effective(like the flu vaccine)?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 6, 2020 13:40:50 GMT -5
It would be nice if this thread was kept to Children, Covid-19. Trump and face book really doesn't fit. TYIA The post Facebook removed was Trump saying that children were immune to Covid. This 100% "fits" with a discussion kids and Covid, and if we are endangering the children by sending them to school, because it is being demanded by someone who is working off and/or spreading untrue information about the subject.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 6, 2020 17:58:35 GMT -5
I remember someone saying they thought kids were immune back in February when we didn't know anything. We've come a long way since then. Its not clear how well vaccines work on kids.......... not that they are going to get ill........ but they could have it in their noses. Even 50%-60% effectiveness would make a big difference to the spread right now.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Aug 6, 2020 19:20:18 GMT -5
Indiana yesterday had over 1000 new cases again. Our small county is now up to 91, gained a lot after the church fish fry. What in the world possessed those people.
We now have the mayors office, court house, and a hardware store closed down this week. I don't think its a coincidence, since before this we only had a few every few days. I'm sure its related.
When kids go back to school, I think its will explode0.
Talked to DIL, her mom lost a friend to it. Another here in the states and she has another friend whose child is in the hospital with it in a very bad condition. Like she said, you don't realize how bad till people die that you know.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 7, 2020 7:57:19 GMT -5
I don't think a certain group of people will care unless we have a million deaths, and even then, some will claim it isn't true.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 11:35:08 GMT -5
Consider me in the group that does not want traditional k-12 schools to open until there is a viable treatment or vaccine. See, I think that is a bit extreme. I think that a place such as VT, where they have done a really good job at containing this (with some luck added in), could try a number of different strategies to see what could possibly work. Another semester like this may be OK, but we will have increasing issues if we stay locked down like this too long. Although I am optimistic about us finding treatment or a vaccine, science works on its one time frame. If we do not find a truly effective vaccine or treatment for 2 years, do we want to be like this that long? In addition, what if the best vaccine we can make is only 50-60% effective(like the flu vaccine)? There will always be a possible area that can do it. (bolded) All our schools are at building capacity with bus routes at capacity. Nor sure how it is in other rural areas, but the bus rides are 1 to 2 hours long. Spacing isn't possible on a full bus/classroom, so yeah, I have to go the extreme position for over here. It won't be financially feasible to transport, or in the classroom, following basic Covid-19 guidelines.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 11:39:37 GMT -5
It would be nice if this thread was kept to Children, Covid-19. Trump and face book really doesn't fit. TYIA The post Facebook removed was Trump saying that children were immune to Covid. This 100% "fits" with a discussion kids and Covid, and if we are endangering the children by sending them to school, because it is being demanded by someone who is working off and/or spreading untrue information about the subject. I've seen so many nonsense memes in regards to Trump, I didn't even look at yours as posted. Apologies for that. I would think most people would know that Trump has no medical background.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 11, 2020 11:47:56 GMT -5
See, I think that is a bit extreme. I think that a place such as VT, where they have done a really good job at containing this (with some luck added in), could try a number of different strategies to see what could possibly work. Another semester like this may be OK, but we will have increasing issues if we stay locked down like this too long. Although I am optimistic about us finding treatment or a vaccine, science works on its one time frame. If we do not find a truly effective vaccine or treatment for 2 years, do we want to be like this that long? In addition, what if the best vaccine we can make is only 50-60% effective(like the flu vaccine)? There will always be a possible area that can do it. (bolded) All our schools are at building capacity with bus routes at capacity. Nor sure how it is in other rural areas, but the bus rides are 1 to 2 hours long. Spacing isn't possible on a full bus/classroom, so yeah, I have to go the extreme position for over here. It won't be financially feasible to transport, or in the classroom, following basic Covid-19 guidelines. That's tough. This is why an all or nothing approach will not work. Need to have the best recommendations from consensus of professionals, and then tailor them to specific situations. But other than 50% of students on certain days, not sure where you can go.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 11:50:27 GMT -5
There will always be a possible area that can do it. (bolded) All our schools are at building capacity with bus routes at capacity. Nor sure how it is in other rural areas, but the bus rides are 1 to 2 hours long. Spacing isn't possible on a full bus/classroom, so yeah, I have to go the extreme position for over here. It won't be financially feasible to transport, or in the classroom, following basic Covid-19 guidelines. That's tough. This is why an all or nothing approach will not work. Need to have the best recommendations from consensus of professionals, and then tailor them to specific situations. But other than 50% of students on certain days, not sure where you can go. No it won't. ymam.proboards.com/post/3164994/thread
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 11, 2020 11:55:02 GMT -5
The post Facebook removed was Trump saying that children were immune to Covid. This 100% "fits" with a discussion kids and Covid, and if we are endangering the children by sending them to school, because it is being demanded by someone who is working off and/or spreading untrue information about the subject. I've seen so many nonsense memes in regards to Trump, I didn't even look at yours as posted. Apologies for that. I would think most people would know that Trump has no medical background.However, that has not stopped HIM from acting as if he does. He has some of the best and brightest scientists working with him, but he knows best.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 11:56:56 GMT -5
I've seen so many nonsense memes in regards to Trump, I didn't even look at yours as posted. Apologies for that. I would think most people would know that Trump has no medical background.However, that has not stopped HIM from acting as if he does. He has some of the best and brightest scientists working with him, but he knows best. Do you believe that ? Or do you see it for the politics that it represents. ?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 11, 2020 12:00:30 GMT -5
However, that has not stopped HIM from acting as if he does. He has some of the best and brightest scientists working with him, but he knows best. Do you believe that ? No, but he believes that.....as do a bunch of his followers. Therein lies the problem. Had he kept his mouth shut and complied with the best recommendations, including wearing a mask, this did not need to be near as bad as it is. So while Trump did not cause covid, he most certainly exacerbated the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 12:15:47 GMT -5
No, but he believes that.....as do a bunch of his followers. Therein lies the problem. Had he kept his mouth shut and complied with the best recommendations, including wearing a mask, this did not need to be near as bad as it is. So while Trump did not cause covid, he most certainly exacerbated the problem. Hindsight is always 20/20 www.who.int/news-room/detail/29-06-2020-covidtimeline
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 11, 2020 12:33:19 GMT -5
No, but he believes that.....as do a bunch of his followers. Therein lies the problem. Had he kept his mouth shut and complied with the best recommendations, including wearing a mask, this did not need to be near as bad as it is. So while Trump did not cause covid, he most certainly exacerbated the problem. Hindsight is always 20/20 but only if you are willing to take off your rose colored glasses and look honestly. And it is irrelevant if one does not use what they see to intelligently modify current behavior.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 12:36:55 GMT -5
Hindsight is always 20/20 but only if you are willing to take off your rose colored glasses and look honestly. And it is irrelevant if one does not use what they see to intelligently modify current behavior. You seemed to lose my WHO timeline link. Now that's 'taken out' of context .
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 11, 2020 12:45:42 GMT -5
but only if you are willing to take off your rose colored glasses and look honestly. And it is irrelevant if one does not use what they see to intelligently modify current behavior. You seemed to lose my WHO timeline link. Now that's 'taken out' of context . Yeah. I should have had the foresight to know that you were going to edit your post and respond accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 12:50:41 GMT -5
You seemed to lose my WHO timeline link. Now that's 'taken out' of context . Yeah. I should have had the foresight to know that you were going to edit your post and respond accordingly. Link was being added, then I saw your notification of quote when I finished. I've posted before, in regards to Trumps response, mirroring the WHO's recommendations. Not going under the bridge with you today.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 11, 2020 13:06:53 GMT -5
Yeah. I should have had the foresight to know that you were going to edit your post and respond accordingly. Link was being added, then I saw your notification of quote when I finished. I've posted before, in regards to Trumps response, mirroring the WHO's recommendations. Not going under the bridge with you today. I responded to your post about hindsight with a very generic thought in regards to that topic. While I was doing so, you edited your post and then criticized me for my post based on your edited post and something else you posted somewhere sometime in the past. I would refer you to the OP in the Memes thread re: my "trolling" in this situation.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 11, 2020 13:22:26 GMT -5
In a previous life, I taught at a juvenile detention center. One challenge was that each class had a constantly changing enrollment. Some students were there for a day, some a few days, week, longer. Even if they stayed in the facility, attendance was sporadic with court appearances, disciplinary lockdowns, etc. Developing meaningful curriculum was impossible. I see the current/upcoming school year to present similar issues for all teachers plus their own potential attendance issues on top if those for their students.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 11, 2020 13:40:44 GMT -5
However, that has not stopped HIM from acting as if he does. He has some of the best and brightest scientists working with him, but he knows best. Do you believe that ? Or do you see it for the politics that it represents. ? Do you mean trump's politics? His assertion that Covid19 doesn't really effect children certainly promotes HIS politics. Regardless of the veracity of his statements.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 11, 2020 14:00:08 GMT -5
However, that has not stopped HIM from acting as if he does. He has some of the best and brightest scientists working with him, but he knows best. Do you believe that ? Or do you see it for the politics that it represents. ? No, I see his response as that of a scientist who has training in epidemiology as well. The scientific community has been banging their collective head against the wall since the beginning of this. We have done everything absolutely wrong. And now we are paying for it because a president tried to play politics with a pandemic. Viruses do not give a shit whether you are Republican or Democrat, but they DO require a concerted and collective effort on BOTH parts in order to control it. Unfortunately, Trump has played politics, at the expense of 160+k lives. That is absolutely HIS fault, and his alone.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 11:09:54 GMT -5
Do you believe that ? Or do you see it for the politics that it represents. ? Do you mean trump's politics? His assertion that Covid19 doesn't really effect children certainly promotes HIS politics. Regardless of the veracity of his statements. Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 11:16:21 GMT -5
Do you believe that ? Or do you see it for the politics that it represents. ? No, I see his response as that of a scientist who has training in epidemiology as well. The scientific community has been banging their collective head against the wall since the beginning of this. We have done everything absolutely wrong. And now we are paying for it because a president tried to play politics with a pandemic. Viruses do not give a shit whether you are Republican or Democrat, but they DO require a concerted and collective effort on BOTH parts in order to control it. Unfortunately, Trump has played politics, at the expense of 160+k lives. That is absolutely HIS fault, and his alone. Actually we haven't. (1st bolded) If we did 'most' things wrong, yeah I'm avoiding the absolute because it comes out as nonsense, we would of had an exponential infection rate. We didn't. Now I'm seeing your politics applied to this. (2nd bolded)
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 12, 2020 11:24:08 GMT -5
No, I see his response as that of a scientist who has training in epidemiology as well. The scientific community has been banging their collective head against the wall since the beginning of this. We have done everything absolutely wrong. And now we are paying for it because a president tried to play politics with a pandemic. Viruses do not give a shit whether you are Republican or Democrat, but they DO require a concerted and collective effort on BOTH parts in order to control it. Unfortunately, Trump has played politics, at the expense of 160+k lives. That is absolutely HIS fault, and his alone. Actually we haven't. (1st bolded) If we did 'most' things wrong, yeah I'm avoiding the absolute because it comes out as nonsense, we would of had an exponential infection rate. We didn't. Now I'm seeing your politics applied to this. (2nd bolded) Ok, we didn't do everything wrong. Go ahead and split hairs. But we sure as hell didn't(and aren't) doing much right. Our infection right is dramatically higher compared to countries we would consider out "peers", still have inadequate testing capacity, still have concerns about our PPE supplies, and are concerned with having sports and opening bars, rather than bringing down our infection rate so the economy will recover and kids can go to schools. I would not hold up our response as doing it "right". So, in your opinion, because the worst case scenario did not occur, we are doing fine?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 11:28:49 GMT -5
Actually we haven't. (1st bolded) If we did 'most' things wrong, yeah I'm avoiding the absolute because it comes out as nonsense, we would of had an exponential infection rate. We didn't. Now I'm seeing your politics applied to this. (2nd bolded) Ok, we didn't do everything wrong. Go ahead and split hairs. (Snipped for brevity) From what was done in regards to the virus in this country, including everything, is quite far from doing "absolutely nothing" as stated by ymam.proboards.com/user/254Your "splitting hairs " conclusion sounds ignorant at best. The rest of your post lamely attempts to justify that conclusion. My claim of an exponential infection rate is correct, if no effort was made.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 11:36:53 GMT -5
Link was being added, then I saw your notification of quote when I finished. I've posted before, in regards to Trumps response, mirroring the WHO's recommendations. Not going under the bridge with you today. I responded to your post about hindsight with a very generic thought in regards to that topic. While I was doing so, you edited your post and then criticized me for my post based on your edited post and something else you posted somewhere sometime in the past. I would refer you to the OP in the Memes thread re: my "trolling" in this situation. We both made a mistake, I can live with it. Have no claim on perfection.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 12, 2020 11:51:30 GMT -5
Ok, we didn't do everything wrong. Go ahead and split hairs. (Snipped for brevity) From what was done in regards to the virus in this country, including everything, is quite far from doing "absolutely nothing" as stated by ymam.proboards.com/user/254Your "splitting hairs " conclusion sounds ignorant at best. The rest of your post lamely attempts to justify that conclusion. My claim of an exponential infection rate is correct, if no effort was made. Anything over an R of one is exponential, if you are going to be pedantic; so yes, at times, we have had exponential growth in this country, just not continuously. We have failed at controlling the virus. Who cares that the growth is not as exponential as you think it must be to come to that conclusion.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 12, 2020 12:07:55 GMT -5
No, I see his response as that of a scientist who has training in epidemiology as well. The scientific community has been banging their collective head against the wall since the beginning of this. We have done everything absolutely wrong. And now we are paying for it because a president tried to play politics with a pandemic. Viruses do not give a shit whether you are Republican or Democrat, but they DO require a concerted and collective effort on BOTH parts in order to control it. Unfortunately, Trump has played politics, at the expense of 160+k lives. That is absolutely HIS fault, and his alone. Actually we haven't. (1st bolded) If we did 'most' things wrong, yeah I'm avoiding the absolute because it comes out as nonsense, we would of had an exponential infection rate. We didn't. Now I'm seeing your politics applied to this. (2nd bolded) Do you really want a laundry list of what Trump did wrong? EVERYONE knew that this was going to happen, the only unknown was when. Bush saw this happening decades ago and got the ball rolling. How about lets start with removing the US sentinel from China - you know, the person whose job it was to actually SEE if China is being up front about things? Who did that? How about gutting all the agencies whose job it is to keep an eye on world pandemics? Who did that? Knowing what was going to happen, exactly who was looking into the National Stockpile of goods? It had been partially depleted at the end of Obama's administration, but this was not deemed important. Who did that? And what was left of it, who decided to play politics and make governors of blue states suck up to him for help? Hell, this was a HUGE article not that long ago in the Atlantic, that since the larger cities were getting hit hard early, and those were likely blue, that they may as well take advantage of slowing help to them. Whose idea was that? Maybe not Trump, but his mouthpiece, Kuschner. Once the virus hit the US, who turned down the world's offer for a test? And not only that, who turned down an offer by local universities who have the capability of doing such testing? Who absconded with supplies that states managed to acquire on their own? Lemme give you a hint, FEMA. Now let's talk about hydroxychoroquine. It appeared it had anecdotal help, but scientists wanted to take things cautiously and do some studies as it could have some pretty severe side effects in badly compromised patients. Who continued to push it, AFTER studies came in suggesting that it increases the death rate. Oh, and you can thank your local VA for being a guinea pig for this. He continues to push it, despite this. Do you know how much effort was expanded on beating a dead horse? Effort that could have gone looking for other, more likely treatments (biological plausibility for this treatment was sketchy at best). Who wanted the US opened up for Easter, when cases were still increasing and NYC and surrounding cities were asshole deep in alligators? I seem to remember Trump talking about filling all those beautiful church pews for Easter Sunday. Easter Sunday this year was April 12. Who continued to push for opening? These pushes did not fall on deaf ears, so why do you suspect that many of the southern states are now asshole deep in alligators themselves right now? Should I continue? Let's talk about schools. Gotta get those schools open. Let's threaten schools that if they don't open, lets withhold money. So schools are opening, and they are seeing cases of community spread of the disease because in many cases, it is almost impossible to keep crowds to a minimum. Oh, and let's talk about Trump's assertion that children have immunity. Yeah, they don't get the disease as badly as do adults, but they act as perfect little vectors in spreading it, bringing down teachers, administrators, bus drivers and their parents. Trump is the president. The buck stops there. When you walk into the president's role, your job is to hire the best people you can in order to run this country. Trump DOES have some of the best people helping him, but ultimately HE is the one who makes the decisions. Their job is to advise him. He is not getting shitty advice, other than from Jared Kuschner, and the other flunkies that he has hired. Yeah....it's all Trump's fault. Not the pandemic, but our response to it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 12:11:04 GMT -5
Actually we haven't. (1st bolded) If we did 'most' things wrong, yeah I'm avoiding the absolute because it comes out as nonsense, we would of had an exponential infection rate. We didn't. Now I'm seeing your politics applied to this. (2nd bolded) Do you really want a laundry list of what Trump did wrong? EVERYONE knew that this was going to happen, the only unknown was when. Bush saw this happening decades ago and got the ball rolling. How about lets start with removing the US sentinel from China - you know, the person whose job it was to actually SEE if China is being up front about things? Who did that? How about gutting all the agencies whose job it is to keep an eye on world pandemics? Who did that? Knowing what was going to happen, exactly who was looking into the National Stockpile of goods? It had been partially depleted at the end of Obama's administration, but this was not deemed important. Who did that? And what was left of it, who decided to play politics and make governors of blue states suck up to him for help? Hell, this was a HUGE article not that long ago in the Atlantic, that since the larger cities were getting hit hard early, and those were likely blue, that they may as well take advantage of slowing help to them. Whose idea was that? Maybe not Trump, but his mouthpiece, Kuschner. Once the virus hit the US, who turned down the world's offer for a test? And not only that, who turned down an offer by local universities who have the capability of doing such testing? Who absconded with supplies that states managed to acquire on their own? Lemme give you a hint, FEMA. Now let's talk about hydroxychoroquine. It appeared it had anecdotal help, but scientists wanted to take things cautiously and do some studies as it could have some pretty severe side effects in badly compromised patients. Who continued to push it, AFTER studies came in suggesting that it increases the death rate. Oh, and you can thank your local VA for being a guinea pig for this. He continues to push it, despite this. Do you know how much effort was expanded on beating a dead horse? Effort that could have gone looking for other, more likely treatments (biological plausibility for this treatment was sketchy at best). Who wanted the US opened up for Easter, when cases were still increasing and NYC and surrounding cities were asshole deep in alligators? I seem to remember Trump talking about filling all those beautiful church pews for Easter Sunday. Easter Sunday this year was April 12. Who continued to push for opening? These pushes did not fall on deaf ears, so why do you suspect that many of the southern states are now asshole deep in alligators themselves right now? Should I continue? Let's talk about schools. Gotta get those schools open. Let's threaten schools that if they don't open, lets withhold money. So schools are opening, and they are seeing cases of community spread of the disease because in many cases, it is almost impossible to keep crowds to a minimum. Oh, and let's talk about Trump's assertion that children have immunity. Yeah, they don't get the disease as badly as do adults, but they act as perfect little vectors in spreading it, bringing down teachers, administrators, bus drivers and their parents. Trump is the president. The buck stops there. When you walk into the president's role, your job is to hire the best people you can in order to run this country. Trump DOES have some of the best people helping him, but ultimately HE is the one who makes the decisions. Their job is to advise him. He is not getting shitty advice, other than from Jared Kuschner, and the other flunkies that he has hired. Yeah.... it's all Trump's fault. Not the pandemic, but our response to it. A lot of posting filler, for an impossible absolute. (bolded) I did note you have now changed it to "it's all Trump's fault", where you previously said "We have done everything absolutely wrong." Which what I was answering. Politics indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2020 12:13:07 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) From what was done in regards to the virus in this country, including everything, is quite far from doing "absolutely nothing" as stated by ymam.proboards.com/user/254Your "splitting hairs " conclusion sounds ignorant at best. The rest of your post lamely attempts to justify that conclusion. My claim of an exponential infection rate is correct, if no effort was made. so yes, (snipped for brevity) It wasn't that hard, was it ?
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