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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 14:48:33 GMT -5
I have fought this battle my entire career. Who cares if people lose their teeth, it doesn’t kill you. That is, until oral health got linked to pre term birth, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Then things got much more interesting and funding loosened up. Or they got a severe neck space infection. Dental health is also linked to quality of life. In addition, you never know how a finding in one area is applicable elsewhere. Research is rarely pointless, and more knowledge always is helpful. But again, American anti-intellectualism at work. It took the Surgeon General saying in a speech that you do not have good health without good oral health. Having someone in power state this really helped us getting funding considerably. The budget for the NIDR is minuscule to others, and we made every dollar scream.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 14:50:16 GMT -5
Or they got a severe neck space infection. Dental health is also linked to quality of life. In addition, you never know how a finding in one area is applicable elsewhere. Research is rarely pointless, and more knowledge always is helpful. But again, American anti-intellectualism at work. It took the Surgeon General saying in a speech that you do not have good health without good oral health. Having someone in power state this really helped us getting funding considerably. The budget for the NIDR is minuscule to others, and we made every dollar scream. It can't be. I was told that it doesn't matter what the person in charge says. You must be mistaken
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 14:51:23 GMT -5
Actually, I am not labeling, I am trying to determine where you fall on the spectrum of the severity of this illness. I have been doing my job for 30 years, and this was nothing like anything I have seen in any influenza outbreak. There are good reasons to respect the virus, and good reasons to try to mitigate its effects and limit its reach. There is a report that 50% of people who have had a significant infection could have persistent heart damage. Give we are still learning about the extent of the effects it has on the body, are you disagreeing with trying to limit the number of infections? Do you wear a mask when you cannot social distance? Despite my anger over all precaution being thrown out the window when it was protestors, rioters and looters, I do still take precautions. I will not risk my life or that of my loved ones. But in all reality, if we are saying that immunity is short lived and vaccines aren’t going to stamp this out, what in the world are we going to do going forward? Life has to go on. We can’t shut a country down forever. The fact that heard or vaccines will have a short life is really disheartening to me. Was "all" precaution thrown out the window during protests? I saw a lot of people wearing masks, they were outside, and I personally know people that opted not to participate in fear of CV. Were the protestors perfect? No. I also know that initially in CV a lot of black men said they wouldn't wear a mask because it increased the chances of them getting hurt (looking like a criminal and all). I am glad you are still taking precautions, because even if the protestors were 100% irresponsible, 2 wrongs won't make a right. People trying to "prove a point" by not wearing a mask because they didn't wear enough of them at the protests are only increasing the chances that people will get sick. That isn't a great point to make. Honestly, the best way to prove that protestors were irresponsible is to wear masks everywhere else and THEN call the protesters reckless.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 15:11:44 GMT -5
Despite my anger over all precaution being thrown out the window when it was protestors, rioters and looters, I do still take precautions. I will not risk my life or that of my loved ones. But in all reality, if we are saying that immunity is short lived and vaccines aren’t going to stamp this out, what in the world are we going to do going forward? Life has to go on. We can’t shut a country down forever. The fact that heard or vaccines will have a short life is really disheartening to me. Was "all" precaution thrown out the window during protests? I saw a lot of people wearing masks, they were outside, and I personally know people that opted not to participate in fear of CV. Were the protestors perfect? No. I also know that initially in CV a lot of black men said they wouldn't wear a mask because it increased the chances of them getting hurt (looking like a criminal and all). I am glad you are still taking precautions, because even if the protestors were 100% irresponsible, 2 wrongs won't make a right. People trying to "prove a point" by not wearing a mask because they didn't wear enough of them at the protests are only increasing the chances that people will get sick. That isn't a great point to make. Honestly, the best way to prove that protestors were irresponsible is to wear masks everywhere else and THEN call the protesters reckless. Not only that, but we had protests, and yet our cases continued their downward trend and are now flat. Imagine that. Almost as if something else caused the surge we are seeing now. Most places surging never suppressed their growth rate and opened too soon. But she refuses to accept it.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 14, 2020 15:40:25 GMT -5
So I understand. Just because you have lost your antibodies....... doesn't mean that that you can't mount a response. but how much?........this is why we need more time.
What I don't understand is how Research and Development... is left to big Pharma. You have some lovely medicines which no-one can get hold of.... and they couldn't afford them anyway. There is more to this work than money. There are some good studies going on in the US at the moment, as everybody is trying to help each other get by............ Pretty sure that's not about money. Bad situations bring out the best in people so perhaps there is something positive on the horizon.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 15:56:29 GMT -5
So I understand. Just because you have lost your antibodies....... doesn't mean that that you can't mount a response. but how much?........this is why we need more time. What I don't understand is how Research and Development... is left to big Pharma. You have some lovely medicines which no-one can get hold of.... and they couldn't afford them anyway. There is more to this work than money. There are some good studies going on in the US at the moment, as everybody is trying to help each other get by............ Pretty sure that's not about money. Bad situations bring out the best in people so perhaps there is something positive on the horizon.
You have 2 forms of immunity, antibody based and cell mediated immunity. Both responses are effective, and many times necessary. Each one is more important in certain circumstances. So, it is possible to not have antibodies, and still have an adequate cell mediated immune response to be immune. Only problem is , we can’t measure that part of the immune response, so we can’t tell you if you are immune. It is easier with antibodies, as we can measure the level of those in you blood
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 14, 2020 16:14:31 GMT -5
I guess we won't know until people meet the virus again and we can assess how well they are responding..... antibodies or none.
It seems that the worse the initial infection the greater the amount of antibodies produced..... but is an asymptomatic infection enough to have some immunity. No answers at the moment.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 16:27:54 GMT -5
I guess we won't know until people meet the virus again and we can assess how well they are responding..... antibodies or none.
It seems that the worse the initial infection the greater the amount of antibodies produced..... but is an asymptomatic infection enough to have some immunity. No answers at the moment.
Antibodies may not be important at all in the progress of this disease. The existence of antibodies may merely be an artifact of infection, and not protective.....just like HIV. Cell mediated immunity and non specific immunity may be what drives this infection. While you can measure some factors involved in non specific immunity, it is far more difficult to measure cell mediated immunity.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2020 18:32:55 GMT -5
Despite my anger over all precaution being thrown out the window when it was protestors, rioters and looters, I do still take precautions. I will not risk my life or that of my loved ones. But in all reality, if we are saying that immunity is short lived and vaccines aren’t going to stamp this out, what in the world are we going to do going forward? Life has to go on. We can’t shut a country down forever. The fact that heard or vaccines will have a short life is really disheartening to me. Was "all" precaution thrown out the window during protests? I saw a lot of people wearing masks, they were outside, and I personally know people that opted not to participate in fear of CV. Were the protestors perfect? No. I also know that initially in CV a lot of black men said they wouldn't wear a mask because it increased the chances of them getting hurt (looking like a criminal and all). I am glad you are still taking precautions, because even if the protestors were 100% irresponsible, 2 wrongs won't make a right. People trying to "prove a point" by not wearing a mask because they didn't wear enough of them at the protests are only increasing the chances that people will get sick. That isn't a great point to make. Honestly, the best way to prove that protestors were irresponsible is to wear masks everywhere else and THEN call the protesters reckless. I’m definitely about safety for me and my family. Keep in mind, I was also in favor of the Patriot Act for the same reason. If there is a chance of stopping something that could harm my loved ones, I’m in favor of it I am angry that no one cares that the protestors, rioters and looters were being reckless. But I’m not angry enough to put my life at risk to prove a point. I might be dumb but I’m not stupid!lol
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 18:38:51 GMT -5
Was "all" precaution thrown out the window during protests? I saw a lot of people wearing masks, they were outside, and I personally know people that opted not to participate in fear of CV. Were the protestors perfect? No. I also know that initially in CV a lot of black men said they wouldn't wear a mask because it increased the chances of them getting hurt (looking like a criminal and all). I am glad you are still taking precautions, because even if the protestors were 100% irresponsible, 2 wrongs won't make a right. People trying to "prove a point" by not wearing a mask because they didn't wear enough of them at the protests are only increasing the chances that people will get sick. That isn't a great point to make. Honestly, the best way to prove that protestors were irresponsible is to wear masks everywhere else and THEN call the protesters reckless. I’m definitely about safety for me and my family. Keep in mind, I was also in favor of the Patriot Act for the same reason. If there is a chance of stopping something that could harm my loved ones, I’m in favor of it I am angry that no one cares that the protestors, rioters and looters were being reckless. But I’m not angry enough to put my life at risk to prove a point. I might be dumb but I’m not stupid!lol I don't think you are accurate that no one was angry.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2020 18:42:33 GMT -5
I’m definitely about safety for me and my family. Keep in mind, I was also in favor of the Patriot Act for the same reason. If there is a chance of stopping something that could harm my loved ones, I’m in favor of it I am angry that no one cares that the protestors, rioters and looters were being reckless. But I’m not angry enough to put my life at risk to prove a point. I might be dumb but I’m not stupid!lol I don't think you are accurate that no one was angry. Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 14, 2020 19:27:03 GMT -5
I don't think you are accurate that no one was angry. Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. What about now? Are those same conservatives angry about all the conservatives not wearing masks?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 19:44:38 GMT -5
I don't think you are accurate that no one was angry. Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. Did they say it was worth it, or did they say that protesting was a first amendment right and if churches were calling 1A to have services then protestors can't be arrested for not staying home?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 19:51:32 GMT -5
I don't think you are accurate that no one was angry. Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. If you were honest about why cases are spiking I might respect your opinion. But in most states, cases were already increasing, and few had met the benchmarks to reopen, yet they did. In addition, any comment on the people refusing to wear masks, which, based on recent research, decrease spread by 40%. How about the idiots assaulting people who tell them they need to wear a mask? Any comment on those? Or the young people having coronavirus parties, packing bars, and having other parties. How about trump having rallies, and continuing to dis the use of masks? All of the activities will increase cases. Yet you continue to harp on the protests, yet these behaviors all cause cases to rise. And I always said they were a bad idea. As I stated previously, we had protests, yet our cases continued to decline all throughout June, and we remain flat even though we have started indoor dining. But that doesn’t fit your narrative
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2020 20:04:03 GMT -5
Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. What about now? Are those same conservatives angry about all the conservatives not wearing masks? I am. Why must you lump everyone together?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 20:04:38 GMT -5
What about now? Are those same conservatives angry about all the conservatives not wearing masks? I am. Why must you lump everyone together? Why must you?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2020 20:08:39 GMT -5
Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. If you were honest about why cases are spiking I might respect your opinion. But in most states, cases were already increasing, and few had met the benchmarks to reopen, yet they did. In addition, any comment on the people refusing to wear masks, which, based on recent research, decrease spread by 40%. How about the idiots assaulting people who tell them they need to wear a mask? Any comment on those? Or the young people having coronavirus parties, packing bars, and having other parties. How about trump having rallies, and continuing to dis the use of masks? All of the activities will increase cases. Yet you continue to harp on the protests, yet these behaviors all cause cases to rise. And I always said they were a bad idea. As I stated previously, we had protests, yet our cases continued to decline all throughout June, and we remain flat even though we have started indoor dining. But that doesn’t fit your narrative First, I don’t know you so don’t really care if you respect my opinion or not. Just like you don’t care if I call liberals in favor of protesting while in the same breath demanding that the country closes, hypocrite. That’s the beauty of this country. We can all have opinions. But those same people on here screaming about the churches having services were the same idiots in favor of the protests. I’m against all of it. I’m against idiots having Covid parties. I’m against idiots not wearing masks (I still wear mine). I’m against anything that puts me or my family at risk. If you recall, I was the one pissed off at my liberal governor for not doing enough. But that’s cool...lump all conservatives together and claim we all have an agenda.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2020 20:14:25 GMT -5
Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. Did they say it was worth it, or did they say that protesting was a first amendment right and if churches were calling 1A to have services then protestors can't be arrested for not staying home? I’m confused...the same people up in arms about the churches and demanding they be shuttered were the same ones standing behind the protestors. Which is it? Or is Covid only a risk if it’s a cause you don’t believe in? Because thats what I got out of the last few months on here. I was against church services. I was against protecting, rioting and looting. If something is dangerous to society, it isn’t suddenly not dangerous because there is a cause behind it. That’s why a lot of people called bullshit on all of it. The loudest liberals calling for the shutdown of the country were in favor of tens of thousands of people swarming cities. Talk about conflicting arguments On that note, I’m done arguing. You all believe in risk if it fits your narrative. I don’t. We won’t agree so to continue to go back and forth is pointless.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 20:26:30 GMT -5
If you were honest about why cases are spiking I might respect your opinion. But in most states, cases were already increasing, and few had met the benchmarks to reopen, yet they did. In addition, any comment on the people refusing to wear masks, which, based on recent research, decrease spread by 40%. How about the idiots assaulting people who tell them they need to wear a mask? Any comment on those? Or the young people having coronavirus parties, packing bars, and having other parties. How about trump having rallies, and continuing to dis the use of masks? All of the activities will increase cases. Yet you continue to harp on the protests, yet these behaviors all cause cases to rise. And I always said they were a bad idea. As I stated previously, we had protests, yet our cases continued to decline all throughout June, and we remain flat even though we have started indoor dining. But that doesn’t fit your narrative First, I don’t know you so don’t really care if you respect my opinion or not. Just like you don’t care if I call liberals in favor of protesting while in the same breath demanding that the country closes, hypocrite. That’s the beauty of this country. We can all have opinions. But those same people on here screaming about the churches having services were the same idiots in favor of the protests. I’m against all of it. I’m against idiots having Covid parties. I’m against idiots not wearing masks (I still wear mine). I’m against anything that puts me or my family at risk. If you recall, I was the one pissed off at my liberal governor for not doing enough. But that’s cool...lump all conservatives together and claim we all have an agenda. Yet you do the same thing with liberals. You can’t stop pointing out hypocrisy amongst liberals all the time. At the present time, the idiots about this happen to be trump, the toady Republican governors, and conservatives who are all up in arms about their rights being violated by having to wear masks. Analysis suggest the protests have little to do with the increase in cases, but don’t let facts interfere with your opinion.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 14, 2020 20:55:34 GMT -5
What about now? Are those same conservatives angry about all the conservatives not wearing masks? I am. Why must you lump everyone together? You did so I did too, from the other side. Did you answer the question?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 14, 2020 23:04:22 GMT -5
Ok. I saw plenty of people on this board, Facebook and talking heads in favor of the risk. I know saying “no one” was angry is an exaggeration. I know plenty of people that were angry over it. They were almost 100% conservative, though. If you were honest about why cases are spiking I might respect your opinion. But in most states, cases were already increasing, and few had met the benchmarks to reopen, yet they did. In addition, any comment on the people refusing to wear masks, which, based on recent research, decrease spread by 40%. How about the idiots assaulting people who tell them they need to wear a mask? Any comment on those? Or the young people having coronavirus parties, packing bars, and having other parties. How about trump having rallies, and continuing to dis the use of masks? All of the activities will increase cases. Yet you continue to harp on the protests, yet these behaviors all cause cases to rise. And I always said they were a bad idea. As I stated previously, we had protests, yet our cases continued to decline all throughout June, and we remain flat even though we have started indoor dining. But that doesn’t fit your narrative I took a look at a few states Covid curves. Both NJ and NY show no measurable difference 2 to 3 weeks after the protests. The protests were also around Memorial Day weekend. But other states look different like MN and PA which have totally different curves than NJ and NY. I do not understand why Miss T thinks indoor church should be considered the same as outdoor protests from a risk perspective. I have avoided both, but if I had been forced to pick one, I would have chosen to protest even though I regularly attend church and haven't attended a protest yet. To me the risk is not the same, so I do not see hypocrisy that Miss T sees.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 14, 2020 23:08:54 GMT -5
Given how poorly your post was written, we have no choice but to use your previous posts to search for the true meaning. If you want to prove to us you are different than we believe, start posting different things. And stop with the word-twisting games. It isn't clever. I agree, he pontificates on his preferred points, and then searches for the best way to split hairs to avoid answering questions. Tiresome, and does not lead to any real discourse I think he meant to post A 2s
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jul 15, 2020 8:13:10 GMT -5
Given how poorly your post was written, we have no choice but to use your previous posts to search for the true meaning. If you want to prove to us you are different than we believe, start posting different things. And stop with the word-twisting games. It isn't clever. He's "bringing his A game". Better bring yours if you wish to have a chance. Or you in the this is just a bad flu crowd? (Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S I love how everyone is "projecting" with you. Aww, did someone learn a new term?
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oped
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Post by oped on Jul 15, 2020 8:33:21 GMT -5
Did they say it was worth it, or did they say that protesting was a first amendment right and if churches were calling 1A to have services then protestors can't be arrested for not staying home? I’m confused...the same people up in arms about the churches and demanding they be shuttered were the same ones standing behind the protestors. Which is it? Or is Covid only a risk if it’s a cause you don’t believe in? Because thats what I got out of the last few months on here. I was against church services. I was against protecting, rioting and looting. If something is dangerous to society, it isn’t suddenly not dangerous because there is a cause behind it. That’s why a lot of people called bullshit on all of it. The loudest liberals calling for the shutdown of the country were in favor of tens of thousands of people swarming cities. Talk about conflicting arguments On that note, I’m done arguing. You all believe in risk if it fits your narrative. I don’t. We won’t agree so to continue to go back and forth is pointless. If you don't know the difference between outdoor masked and indoor unmasked and singing... There is nothing worth talking about. You are being disingenuous, or you lack the basic capacity to understand the situation. Regardless you are right, further discussion is pointless.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 8:43:25 GMT -5
Now a bar in Texas, where there is a major surge, in defiance of the orders to close, had a large party to basically say screw you to the governor. But I bet she won't continue to use that as her point to complain about.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jul 15, 2020 8:51:44 GMT -5
I have fought this battle my entire career. Who cares if people lose their teeth, it doesn’t kill you. That is, until oral health got linked to pre term birth, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Then things got much more interesting and funding loosened up. Or they got a severe neck space infection. Dental health is also linked to quality of life. In addition, you never know how a finding in one area is applicable elsewhere. Research is rarely pointless, and more knowledge always is helpful. But again, American anti-intellectualism at work. I hear it also can affect who you vote for.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 15, 2020 9:06:05 GMT -5
If you were honest about why cases are spiking I might respect your opinion. But in most states, cases were already increasing, and few had met the benchmarks to reopen, yet they did. In addition, any comment on the people refusing to wear masks, which, based on recent research, decrease spread by 40%. How about the idiots assaulting people who tell them they need to wear a mask? Any comment on those? Or the young people having coronavirus parties, packing bars, and having other parties. How about trump having rallies, and continuing to dis the use of masks? All of the activities will increase cases. Yet you continue to harp on the protests, yet these behaviors all cause cases to rise. And I always said they were a bad idea. As I stated previously, we had protests, yet our cases continued to decline all throughout June, and we remain flat even though we have started indoor dining. But that doesn’t fit your narrative First, I don’t know you so don’t really care if you respect my opinion or not. Just like you don’t care if I call liberals in favor of protesting while in the same breath demanding that the country closes, hypocrite. That’s the beauty of this country. We can all have opinions. But those same people on here screaming about the churches having services were the same idiots in favor of the protests. I’m against all of it. I’m against idiots having Covid parties. I’m against idiots not wearing masks (I still wear mine). I’m against anything that puts me or my family at risk. If you recall, I was the one pissed off at my liberal governor for not doing enough. But that’s cool.. .lump all conservatives together and claim we all have an agenda. Says the poster who lumps tens of thousands of peaceful protestors with a minority of rioters and looters. No agenda there though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 11:30:41 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S Actually, I am not labeling, are you disagreeing with trying to limit the number of infections? (Snipped for brevity)
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 11:31:36 GMT -5
Actually, I am not labeling, are you disagreeing with trying to limit the number of infections? (Snipped for brevity) ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 11:33:19 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S If you want to prove to us you are different than we believe. (Snipped for brevity) Too funny.
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